UFC 239 Jones Vs Santos

Tazzimus

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

But sure thats all i'm saying. Nothing else. Askren is a smug ****er. He got what he deserved with the KO. It was perfect.



Who though?

People saying it's thuggish, scummy, lengthy bans etc. Slight over-reaction.
It was a bit classless for sure, but he was just returning the favour for all the needling Askren has been doing on the lead up. Askren himself even realised, yeah I had that coming.

These are people that get paid to incapacitate their opponent, emotions can run high. People can also not like each other.

Bandana boy

the Sh1thousery from Mazidal after was certainly noteworthy but rather than be upset I decided to lean in and instead enjoy it .

The nature of the sport , that knock out , the carry on and his post presser will all elevate him and increase his pay day next time out.

dulux99

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I don't give a ****e what Askren thinks of the post KO antics of Masvidal, sure is that supposed to stop people having an opinion. I've been watching boxing and MMA for a long time (iv'e gone to a few UFC's here and in UK) and my opinion is that the post KO behavior was just a tad uncalled for. I don't particularly like Askren, he deserved the KO and I like that its a warning for boring take down artists with big mouths.

I'm sure in your head you think calling people pearl clutchers makes you sound like a double hard bastard but it doesn't I promise you. Its called having an opinion, that's what places like this are for. Acting like a bit of scumbag when your opponent lays unconscious? Like i said i've been a fan of UFC for a long time but I'm not mad on that after KO ****e. That'll come back to him in some way or another.

I'm delighted Askren got KO'd. He deserved it.

I'm equally sure that you taking this high brow stance on the lack of sportsmanship on show makes you feel like a bastion of moral superiority.



It's a fight. Askren disrespected Masvidal for months. Masvidal is a cuban immigrant to started his career fighting in back gardens. Expecting him to react in any other way, after such an emphatic knockout, is unrealistic.



I really do find it hilarious that Masvidal is getting pilloried far more for his celebration, than he is for his 2 or 3 totally unnecessary follow up punches. They're the type of things that should have people worried - not the way in which he chooses to celebrates.

DrPhilG

Any idea if/when we'll ever get news on PPV sales on BT Sport for this?

Autecher

DrPhilG wrote: »

Any idea if/when we'll ever get news on PPV sales on BT Sport for this?

I don't know if we will but they did release a statement on Saturday saying only select UFC numbered events will be on ppv. So likely it will only be cards headlined by Jones/McGregor and maybe really really stacked cards.

walshb

dulux99 wrote: »

I really do find it hilarious that Masvidal is getting pilloried far more for his celebration, than he is for his 2 or 3 totally unnecessary follow up punches. They're the type of things that should have people worried - not the way in which he chooses to celebrates.

I think he is getting criticized for both....

Both acts classless, and the first highly dangerous...

Anyway, all this back and forth nonsense.

What's wrong with behaving with some minute amount of common decency and kindness and compassion, even if you are a cage fighter? They are still people after all; brothers, fathers, sons, uncles, etc....

They are still being watched by many many other people....would it be too much to ask that they at least try and behave with some class when they have just knocked clean out their opponent?

See, some of us have no issue with them being rough and tough and merciless when fighting.....but still, some of us do have issues, and won't excuse these classless post fight actions...

The UFC should be stamping this type of behavior out...and seen to be as well.

DrPhilG

Autecher wrote: »

I don't know if we will but they did release a statement on Saturday saying only select UFC numbered events will be on ppv. So likely it will only be cards headlined by Jones/McGregor and maybe really really stacked cards.

That was always expected, that only the big ones would be on PPV. November in NYC, July 4th card etc.

But I'm wondering just how crappy the figures for the PPV would need to be for them to change their minds.

Autecher

DrPhilG wrote: »

That was always expected, that only the big ones would be on PPV. November in NYC, July 4th card etc.

But I'm wondering just how crappy the figures for the PPV would need to be for them to change their minds.

UFC 242 in Abu Dhabi will be on ppv aswell so unless they sold very little the other night that will still happen.

D.Q

Autecher wrote: »

UFC 242 in Abu Dhabi will be on ppv aswell so unless they sold very little the other night that will still happen.

The main card for that starts at 7pm our time. No problem paying for that.

CatFromHue

It's being blown out of proportion if you ask me.

He knocked a guy out just as the fight started so he's going to be very hyped up for a start. Shouting in a guys face when he's KOed isnt the worst thing either.

As for the follow up punch (punches) he stopped as soon as the ref intervened, he didn't have to be pulled off him or anything.

Did he push it a bit? yeah but not much more than that if you ask me.

dulux99

Autecher wrote: »

UFC 242 in Abu Dhabi will be on ppv aswell so unless they sold very little the other night that will still happen.

Is that confirmed? ah balls. But as another poster said I don't mind paying the few quid for the convenience of it.

magic_murph

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

I don't give a ****e what Askren thinks of the post KO antics of Masvidal, sure is that supposed to stop people having an opinion. I've been watching boxing and MMA for a long time (iv'e gone to a few UFC's here and in UK) and my opinion is that the post KO behavior was just a tad uncalled for. I don't particularly like Askren, he deserved the KO and I like that its a warning for boring take down artists with big mouths.

I'm sure in your head you think calling people pearl clutchers makes you sound like a double hard bastard but it doesn't I promise you. Its called having an opinion, that's what places like this are for. Acting like a bit of scumbag when your opponent lays unconscious? Like i said i've been a fan of UFC for a long time but I'm not mad on that after KO ****e. That'll come back to him in some way or another.

I'm delighted Askren got KO'd. He deserved it.

So your happy somebody got violently knocked out but you have an issue with somebody taunting another person. Wow.

Autecher

dulux99 wrote: »

Is that confirmed? ah balls. But as another poster said I don't mind paying the few quid for the convenience of it.

According to this guy it's confirmed anyway. He is a British MMA journalist. And as D.Q said it will be on European time so it probably was always gonna be ppv just for that reason alone.


https://twitter.com/MMA_Jim/status/1147518060372250625

fonecrusher1

magic_murph wrote: »

So your happy somebody got violently knocked out but you have an issue with somebody taunting another person. Wow.

Violently knocked out? As opposed to getting gently knocked out. You do know the objective each fighter has right?

So whats more sporting?

1. Knocking out someone in a full contact MMA contest.
2. Taunting / Mocking someone while they're unconscious?

You know what honestly I don't really care anymore. What I don't like is people getting their knickers in a twist because other people are daring to have the opinion that the after KO ****e wasn't called for? The fcuk is that about? Its like you have to think it was great or else you'll be labelled a softy, choose another sport, grow up, ah you've no clue about MMA. Insert more toughman talk :rolleyes:

Anyway i'm not going to post again in this thread. Last thing i'll say is having varying opinions is a good thing. Be a vary boring world otherwise.

dulux99

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Violently knocked out? As opposed to getting gently knocked out. You do know the objective each fighter has right?

So whats more sporting?

1. Knocking out someone in a full contact MMA contest.
2. Taunting / Mocking someone while they're unconscious?

You know what honestly I don't really care anymore. What I don't like is people getting their knickers in a twist because other people are daring to have the opinion that the after KO ****e wasn't called for? The fcuk is that about? Its like you have to think it was great or else you'll be labelled a softy, choose another sport, grow up, ah you've no clue about MMA. Insert more toughman talk :rolleyes:

Anyway i'm not going to post again in this thread. Last thing i'll say is having varying opinions is a good thing. Be a vary boring world otherwise.

You really don't see that the Askren KO was a particularly violent one? Alright then mate.

Gamb!t

Ben speaks.#https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pfe9tM0e3w

mdwexford

Ben going on Ariel’s show speaks volumes about him. Not many would have in his position.

Hopefully he’s back in there in November/December.
Fully expect him to recover from this loss and climb back to a title shot.

mdwexford

mdwexford wrote: »

Ben going on Ariel’s show speaks volumes about him. Not many would have in his position.

Hopefully he’s back in there in November/December.
Fully expect him to recover from this loss and climb back to a title shot.

I'm a massive Askren fan and I think on his night he can bring anyone to the ground and beat them if things go his way on the night

but he is way too one dimensional imo to get a long enough winning steak in the UFC to get a title shot.

mdwexford

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a massive Askren fan and I think on his night he can bring anyone to the ground and beat them if things go his way on the night

but he is way too one dimensional imo to get a long enough winning steak in the UFC to get a title shot.

Lot of interest still behind him though. Maybe even more eyes on him now.

2 decent wins could see him fight for the belt.

Masvidal beat Usman.
Rematch for the title, boom ppv sales!!

leonffrench

tusk wrote:

I really miss the who you got site (whatever it was called). Mad that they got rid of it

Download the Verdict app it's great

Ultimate Seduction

Ouch

https://twitter.com/MikeBohnMMA/status/1148396748152250369?s=19

Mellor

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Ouch

...according to his manager speaking to Brazilian media.
Pretty large chance he's exaggerating the extent imo.

Autecher

The salaries from the event.



Jon Jones: $500,000 — $500,000 flat fee paid

Thiago Santos: $350,000 — $350,000 flat fee paid

Amanda Nunes: $550,000 — $300,000 to show, $200,000 to win plus $50,000 for ‘Performance of the Night’.

Holly Holm: $300,000 — $300,000 flat fee paid.

Jorge Masvidal: $250,000 — $100,000 to show, $100,000 to win plus $50,000 for ‘Performance of the Night’

Ben Askren: $210,000

Jan Blachowicz: $142,000 — $46,000 to show, $46,000 to win plus $50,000 for ‘Performance of the Night’

Luke Rockhold: $200,000

Michael Chiesa: $104,000 — $52,000 to show, $52,000 to win

Diego Sanchez: $103,000

Arnold Allen: $64,000 — $32,000 to show, $32,000 to win

Gilbert Melendez: $200,000

Marlon Vera: $96,000 — $48,000 to show, $48,000 to win

Nohelin Hernandez: $12,000

Claudia Gadelha: $102,000 — $52,000 to show, $52,000 to win

Randa Markos: $30,000

Song Yadong: $140,000 — $45,000 to show, $45,000 to win plus $50,000 for ‘Performance of the Night’

Alejandro Perez: $42,000

Edmen Shahbazyan: $32,000 — $16,000 to show, $16,000 to win

Jack Marshman: $30,000

Chance Rencountre: $28,000 — $14,000 to show, $14,000 to win

Ismail Naurdiev: $14,000

Julia Avila: $20,000 — $10,000 to show, $10,000 to win

Pannie Kianzad: $12,000

dulux99

Arnold Allen needs to get himself a new manager.

callaway92

That explains why Gilbert Melendez came back to see out his contract.

TerrorFirmer

Askren had that KO coming (from a purely fight POV) but I do think that Masvidal really made himself out to be a total dick. Bad loss for Ben obviously but doesn't really tell us anything much about either fighter, just one of those things, bit like McGregor knocking out Aldo.

Jones V Santos was a good fight but Santos was not 'in it' after he messed up his knee, amazed he managed to go the distance and stay dangerous, it was so blantantly obvious that he was compromised.

Michael Chiesa's dominatiuon of Diaego Sanchez was something else. He made him look seriously bad.

Holly Holm....meh.

Will we see Luke Rockhold again? Facing another huge layoff. Not sure about the logic of upping weight. Jan is obviously a decent fighter but there are far bigger hitters in that division.

Bandana boy

The fighters really do not get much do they

Considering these guys are on 8-12 week camps with trainers , cut specialists and nutritionists etc on pay roll there can not be much/any left afterwards for some of these lads.

that looks like about 3.5m paid out of a gate of 6M alone before PPV money is touched.

Will they get a piece of the PPV as well as this is looking a bit of a mugs game.

rob316

Its getting better but its still really not enough and the PPV points wont exactly be generous.
Gotta remember these guys only fight 2 or 3 times a year and the reebok gear deal is a real stinker on top of it. Askren got 3k from Reebok as he's a new comer.

Mellor

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Askren had that KO coming (from a purely fight POV) but I do think that Masvidal really made himself out to be a total dick. Bad loss for Ben obviously but doesn't really tell us anything much about either fighter, just one of those things, bit like McGregor knocking out Aldo.

Funny you say that. I think it gives a good insight to both. As did McGregor v Aldo.

xckjoo

Mellor wrote: »

Funny you say that. I think it gives a good insight to both. As did McGregor v Aldo.

Curious as to what insight you got?

Tazzimus

xckjoo wrote: »

Curious as to what insight you got?

Probably that Askren lunges for a takedown immediately and is very open to being kneed in the face.
He needs to rethink his approach to an opponent sprinting at him.

A lot of wrestlers will throw a few sloppy strikes to distract from the takedown attempts they're about to try.

ASOT

Ben was class on Ariel's show.

yourdeadwright

Tazzimus wrote: »

Probably that Askren lunges for a takedown immediately and is very open to being kneed in the face.
He needs to rethink his approach to an opponent sprinting at him.

A lot of wrestlers will throw a few sloppy strikes to distract from the takedown attempts they're about to try.

Ben Spoke about this and said he made a technical error he won't stop doing what he done in the previous 19 fights,

He got caught it happens just move on ,

Comparing it to Conor v Aldo is a bit off to me a flying knee ko is far less likely to happened again than Conor koing someone with a punch ,


Put it this way I think if Jorge and Ben fight another 10 times maybe 1 max would end with a flying knee ,
If Conor and Aldo fight 10 times at least 5 would end with Conor koing Aldo with a punch ,

xckjoo

Tazzimus wrote: »

Probably that Askren lunges for a takedown immediately and is very open to being kneed in the face.
He needs to rethink his approach to an opponent sprinting at him.

A lot of wrestlers will throw a few sloppy strikes to distract from the takedown attempts they're about to try.

Not being funny but that's more of a description of what happened than any big insight into the fighters. Askren has always lunged (badly) for takedowns, but he doesn't normally do it face first into a flying knee. I don't think it's usually his first move in a fight but would have to look back to be sure. Masvidal said himself post-fight that he was throwing out the knee as much as a warning as anything else. His plan wasn't specifically to knock Ben out in the first couple of seconds.

Mellor

xckjoo wrote: »

Curious as to what insight you got?

That Masvidal is smarter than he makes out.
The entire start was choreographed. His hands behind his back, side stepping. It was fake passiveness to get Ben to press forward. Then he rushes him.
Ben, well he exposed his predictability, and the fact he probably still swings more to wrestler than MMA fighter . We all know he is only after he TD, no shock there. But when put under pressure he instinct was to duck. Charge DC and you'd probably meet an overhand right.

If Jorge just ran at the bell, I don't think Ben responds by shooting on him.

xckjoo

Mellor wrote: »

That Masvidal is smarter than he makes out.
The entire start was choreographed. His hands behind his back, side stepping. It was fake passiveness to get Ben to press forward. Then he rushes him.
Ben, well he exposed his predictability, and the fact he probably still swings more to wrestler than MMA fighter . We all know he is only after he TD, no shock there. But when put under pressure he instinct was to duck. Charge DC and you'd probably meet an overhand right.

If Jorge just ran at the bell, I don't think Ben responds by shooting on him.

Cheers. Didn't notice Masvidal doing any kind of faking at the start. Will have to load up the gif and rewatch the match
I'm very surprised that someone at this level would duck for a takedown when someone is running at them. I'm not sure of an outcome where it would have worked in Askrens favour unless he thought Masvidal was going to stop when he was within striking distance. Always easy to judge when you're not the one in the heat of battle though

pastorbarrett

Ben's ate some bombs, and on a relatively quick turnaround. Seems it would be prudent to sit out until at least next year. I saw someone say that Masvidal's technique for the downed punches was like somebody slamming a door. And those Robbie shots...

Mellor

xckjoo wrote: »

His plan wasn't specifically to knock Ben out in the first couple of seconds.

Of course not. Nobody could ever plan that with certainty. Same way Conor didn't plan to knock Aldo out in the opening seconds.

But still planned for predictability. And rehearsed the exchange in advance.

https://streamable.com/4rhh7

Tazzimus

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Ben Spoke about this and said he made a technical error he won't stop doing what he done in the previous 19 fights,

He got caught it happens just move on ,

Comparing it to Conor v Aldo is a bit off to me a flying knee ko is far less likely to happened again than Conor koing someone with a punch ,


Put it this way I think if Jorge and Ben fight another 10 times maybe 1 max would end with a flying knee ,
If Conor and Aldo fight 10 times at least 5 would end with Conor koing Aldo with a punch ,

I guarantee you he will adjust, now that he's felt that knockout and how it came about.

xckjoo wrote: »

Not being funny but that's more of a description of what happened than any big insight into the fighters. Askren has always lunged (badly) for takedowns, but he doesn't normally do it face first into a flying knee. I don't think it's usually his first move in a fight but would have to look back to be sure. Masvidal said himself post-fight that he was throwing out the knee as much as a warning as anything else. His plan wasn't specifically to knock Ben out in the first couple of seconds.

It's a bit of both. Bens first instinct when someone comes running at him is to duck in for a takedown, not wise from a distance and while he's sprinting at you.
To be honest, it was needed for him to realise, maybe I shouldn't just go straight for a takedown.
****, he tried to take Robbie down more or less straight away and got a tombstone piledriver for his efforts.

xckjoo

Mellor wrote: »

Of course not. Nobody could ever plan that with certainty. Same way Conor didn't plan to knock Aldo out in the opening seconds.

But still planned for predictability. And rehearsed the exchange in advance.

https://streamable.com/4rhh7

Looking at it again it looks like Askrens head was pretty much down before Masvidal started his run. My memory was more of him running across the ring but it's probably only a step or two. Great timing. I can see now how even if it hadn't landed like it did, it would still have worked to make Ben reluctant to just shoot blindly.

magic_murph

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Violently knocked out? As opposed to getting gently knocked out. You do know the objective each fighter has right?

So whats more sporting?

1. Knocking out someone in a full contact MMA contest.
2. Taunting / Mocking someone while they're unconscious?

You know what honestly I don't really care anymore. What I don't like is people getting their knickers in a twist because other people are daring to have the opinion that the after KO ****e wasn't called for? The fcuk is that about? Its like you have to think it was great or else you'll be labelled a softy, choose another sport, grow up, ah you've no clue about MMA. Insert more toughman talk :rolleyes:

Anyway i'm not going to post again in this thread. Last thing i'll say is having varying opinions is a good thing. Be a vary boring world otherwise.

I dare you to post again - soft jaw :-)

walshb

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Askren had that KO coming (from a purely fight POV) but I do think that Masvidal really made himself out to be a total dick. Bad loss for Ben obviously but doesn't really tell us anything much about either fighter, just one of those things, bit like McGregor knocking out Aldo.

.

Agreed, but at least with Conor's win, there was some action and feeling out/plotting.....

The Nal

walshb wrote: »

Agreed, but at least with Conor's win, there was some action and feeling out/plotting.....

Same thing here. Masvidal standing open, leaning back.

Has to be a rematch.

MrStuffins

The Nal wrote: »

Has to be a rematch.

I disagree. It was as comprehensive a win as you get.

I get why you would want to see a rematch but I don't think Jorge owes it!

yourdeadwright

Mellor wrote: »

That Masvidal is smarter than he makes out.
The entire start was choreographed. His hands behind his back, side stepping. It was fake passiveness to get Ben to press forward. Then he rushes him.
Ben, well he exposed his predictability, and the fact he probably still swings more to wrestler than MMA fighter . We all know he is only after he TD, no shock there. But when put under pressure he instinct was to duck. Charge DC and you'd probably meet an overhand right.

If Jorge just ran at the bell, I don't think Ben responds by shooting on him.

It actually went further than the start of the fight,

All week in the build up whenever Jorge dumped into Ben or was in the same room of him he put his hands behind his back to come across as passive ,
His idea was to not make Ben feel threatened, he wanted Ben to feel relaxed and think there would be a feeling out stage,

It was quite brilliant ,

yourdeadwright

MrStuffins wrote: »

I disagree. It was as comprehensive a win as you get.

I get why you would want to see a rematch but I don't think Jorge owes it!

Ben said himself he does not deserve a rematch but felt if he wins a few fights down the line they will meet again ,

Beersmith

dulux99 wrote: »

Arnold Allen needs to get himself a new manager.

What about diego sanchez. No wonder dana loves him. Costs him F all.

Ultimate Seduction

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It actually went further than the start of the fight,

All week in the build up whenever Jorge dumped into Ben or was in the same room of him he put his hands behind his back to come across as passive ,
His idea was to not make Ben feel threatened, he wanted Ben to feel relaxed and think there would be a feeling out stage,

It was quite brilliant ,

You watching too much Chael

Bandana boy

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

You watching too much Chael

he is
and not paying attention
it was Ben doing the arms behind the back stick !

JJayoo

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Just saw the askren ko. What a classless prick masvidel is.

Masvodel has spoken previously how he loved to start fights by sucker punching people, he is a scummy cnut