Random EV thoughts.....

Shefwedfan

MHEV is the mild hybrids isnt it. They are diesel but I didnt think they where selling already? VW will have a big push on these next year

Black_Knight

charlieIRL wrote: »

I believe BEV sales are up either 160 or 180% on last year.

165.55% is the latest from beepbeep.
Hyundai have nearly sold as many electrics this year(1071), as all the electric cars sold in 2018 (1077).

Dublin added further 1250 electric cars this year. No wonder I hear people complain about charger availability.

krissovo

I rented a Mercedes C Class MHEV a few months ago in the UK, basically it's alternator becomes a motor and assists the car from time to time. I had a look into the tech at the time, its cheap, 48 volts and its possible to retro fit older cars.

Did absolutely nothing for the fuel economy from what I could tell with my "normal" driving.

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

Sure is, have you a deposit down?

They won't sell them here

We getting none of the affordable EVs from VW family

Citigo, é-Up, Mii

Mike9832

krissovo wrote: »

I rented a Mercedes C Class MHEV a few months ago in the UK, basically it's alternator becomes a motor and assists the car from time to time. I had a look into the tech at the time, its cheap, 48 volts and its possible to retro fit older cars.

Did absolutely nothing for the fuel economy from what I could tell with my "normal" driving.

Pluggin Hybrid diesel are amazing though

Mercedes have 13.5kWh models that do over 50km on electric and 2.0 diesel does 5l/100km

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

Pluggin Hybrid diesel are amazing though

Diesel and Plugin hybrid together dont make sense to me.

Diesel needs to get up to temp to be any way efficient. PHEV is all about turning the engine off as much as possible. I dont get it.

If you want PHEV it needs to be with petrol and you can get 5l/100km from a petrol PHEV on a long journey no problem.

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

Pluggin Hybrid diesel are amazing though

Mercedes have 13.5kWh models that do over 50km on electric and 2.0 diesel does 5l/100km

Do they sell them here? Can't see any on donedeal. I'd like that tbh, PHEV for city and short motorway journeys, efficient diesel for longer motorway trips

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Pluggin Hybrid diesel are amazing though

Mercedes have 13.5kWh models that do over 50km on electric and 2.0 diesel does 5l/100km

Don't see the point of that....mild hybrid makes a bit of sense for diesel but PHEV seems silly to me....

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

They won't sell them here

We getting none of the affordable EVs from VW family

Citigo, é-Up, Mii

Why wouldn't we? All of the VW dealers are now certified, or the majority are.

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

Do they sell them here? Can't see any on donedeal. I'd like that tbh, PHEV for city and short motorway journeys, efficient diesel for longer motorway trips

Of course

We get nothing here

About €45,000 all in for 191 É Class

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201908291630156?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2019&postcode=m52ty&sort=price-asc&page=1&price-from=500&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Diesel%2FElectric%20Plug-in&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why wouldn't we? All of the VW dealers are now certified, or the majority are.

Saw in on speakev, said Northern Ireland only for all 3

I believe we never got original electric é-Up and Skoda mailed me that they won't be selling Citigo EV

I would bet we won't be getting here

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Saw in on speakev, said Northern Ireland only for all 3

I believe we never got original electric é-Up and Skoda mailed me that they won't be selling Citigo EV

I would bet we won't be getting here

No idea on Skoda but VW Ireland have invested in all the dealers. Sure when the eGolf came out none of them sold it here. Even up till last year you only had 2 garages selling eGolf and now majority do....Kia didnt sell electric or PHEV here either, I know when I talked to them 18 month or so ago they said they probably wouldnt because the Irish buyer only wanted diesel....market has changed now....

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Don't see the point of that....mild hybrid makes a bit of sense for diesel but PHEV seems silly to me....

How so?

Seems good to me

Its for long trips, not city driving

Long trips petrol is too thirsty, diesel is much more efficient and 10c a litre cheaper

On a 150km journey, the diesel Mercedes could do 1/3 the journey on electric and 5 litres of diesel for the rest

Petrol would take way more

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

How so?

Seems good to me

Its for long trips, not city driving

Long trips petrol is too thirsty, diesel is much more efficient and 10c a litre cheaper

On a 150km journey, the diesel Mercedes could do 1/3 the journey on electric and 5 litres of diesel for the rest

Petrol would take way more

Not true... 5.xl/100km is no problem at 120km/h in a petrol PHEV.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111052681&postcount=106


With a PHEV you want the engine to run as little as possible but you also want it to fire up when you want that boost in power (even for short drives... overtaking for example)... asking a diesel engine to do that on demand makes no sense to me. Diesel needs to be up to temp, otherwise you are looking at poor efficiency and probably emissions issues with DPF's etc.

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

Not true... 5.xl/100km is no problem at 120km/h in a petrol PHEV.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111052681&postcount=106


With a PHEV you want the engine to run as little as possible but you also want it to fire up when you want that boost in power (even for short drives... overtaking for example)... asking a diesel engine to do that on demand makes no sense to me. Diesel needs to be up to temp, otherwise you are looking at poor efficiency and probably emissions issues with DPF's etc.

True but that's a weak little low power petrol engine

That Mercedes pulls like a train in comparison, far more powerful and still just as efficient

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No idea on Skoda but VW Ireland have invested in all the dealers. Sure when the eGolf came out none of them sold it here. Even up till last year you only had 2 garages selling eGolf and now majority do....Kia didnt sell electric or PHEV here either, I know when I talked to them 18 month or so ago they said they probably wouldnt because the Irish buyer only wanted diesel....market has changed now....

Hope your right

A 260km é-UP would make a fantastic first EV for people

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

How so?

Seems good to me

Its for long trips, not city driving

Long trips petrol is too thirsty, diesel is much more efficient and 10c a litre cheaper

On a 150km journey, the diesel Mercedes could do 1/3 the journey on electric and 5 litres of diesel for the rest

Petrol would take way more

The 10c a litre is planned to be removed.



Petrol is not thirsty either for long trips. That myth is a long time debunked. Diesel is efficient if you use the engine on a long trip, how would it work with the hybrid constantly cutting in and out?



Unless you plan to just burn the electric range and then just use the diesel for the rest of trip without hybrid at all? whats the point of that?



You are paying for a battery plus an electric motor, charge point etc just to take what 50 c off a trip? the TCO would be terrible.....plus you are carrying around the weight of the battery which means you now burn more diesel


To me, stupid idea

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

True but that's a weak little low power petrol engine

That Mercedes pulls like a train in comparison, far more powerful and still just as efficient

The weight of the battery alone would mean it is not as efficient.....


Weight is the biggest issue with cars and fuel economy. A 13kWh battery is not light and neither is a merc to start with.

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The 10c a litre is planned to be removed.



Petrol is not thirsty either for long trips. That myth is a long time debunked. Diesel is efficient if you use the engine on a long trip, how would it work with the hybrid constantly cutting in and out?



Unless you plan to just burn the electric range and then just use the diesel for the rest of trip without hybrid at all? whats the point of that?



You are paying for a battery plus an electric motor, charge point etc just to take what 50 c off a trip? the TCO would be terrible.....plus you are carrying around the weight of the battery which means you now burn more diesel


To me, stupid idea

In my case

I would use electric all week and diesel for long trips at the weekend

Using up all battery on long trip, then let engine kick in, maybe charge somewhere if I stop

Its not suited to small Kias etc, but for big Mercedes, Audi etc think it can work

They are going to offer X5 with 24kWh battery and 2.0 diesel in 2021, that would suit well

Think Germans will try it anyway

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

True but that's a weak little low power petrol engine

That Mercedes pulls like a train in comparison, far more powerful and still just as efficient

Im not really saying the Niro is competition for that Merc from a performance perspective!

Just saying petrol can give you "diesel like" efficiency now with the right engine and hybrid/battery suporting it. As a technology it makes more sense to marry batteries and petrol than batteries and diesel... imo.

Nothing stopping the manufacturers upping the power of a petrol PHEV to match that Merc and still have decent efficiency.

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

Im not really saying the Niro is competition for that Merc from a performance perspective!

Just saying petrol can give you "diesel like" efficiency now with the right engine and hybrid/battery suporting it. As a technology it makes more sense to marry batteries and petrol than batteries and diesel... imo.

Nothing stopping the manufacturers upping the power of a petrol PHEV to match that Merc and still have decent efficiency.

Your probably right, think the people driving those Mercs would prefer the big diesel and battery vs petrol/battery, even if savings are minimal

From my own experience a big diesel at higher speeds 140/150 is much efficient than any petrol, thats what speeds those execs cruise at

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

In my case

I would use electric all week and diesel for long trips at the weekend

Using up all battery on long trip, then let engine kick in, maybe charge somewhere if I stop

Its not suited to small Kias etc, but for big Mercedes, Audi etc think it can work

They are going to offer X5 with 24kWh battery and 2.0 diesel in 2021, that would suit well

Think Germans will try it anyway

Seem silly to me. Your carting around a big diesel engine, an electric motor and a big battery for what? the range of the electric would be reduced because of the weight


Then on a "long" trip you are carting around a huge battery to save what 20c on the initial start of the trip? you would need to burn an extra 5 euro or more diesel to propel the car over the distance compared to a standard diesel


As I said, seems stupid to me.....



If you only need 30km of range during the week then what do you need a combustion engine for?

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Your probably right, think the people driving those Mercs would prefer the big diesel and battery vs petrol/battery, even if savings are minimal

From my own experience a big diesel at higher speeds 140/150 is much efficient than any petrol, thats what speeds those execs cruise at

I don't understand these savings?



Battery = weight


Do a 200km trip in a diesel and then do the same trip in a PHEV diesel and you will burn a hell of a lot more fuel. 20-30km of battery at the start will provide no savings over the course of the journey

Mike9832

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't understand these savings?



Battery = weight


Do a 200km trip in a diesel and then do the same trip in a PHEV diesel and you will burn a hell of a lot more fuel. 20-30km of battery at the start will provide no savings over the course of the journey

Its for people that don't want a BEV yet and hassle of crap charging network

If every service station in the country had a charger I would also say stupid idea

Network is what the government should getting right, short range EV would do 99% population then

Try to go Galway-Dublin return in any EV and you have to really on the crap network

No Ionity or even Tesla charger in Galway I believe, probably have to stop in Athlone once or twice

Checked ESB one there and half Galway ones are either broke or in use

ethernet

Mike9832 wrote: »

Try to go Galway-Dublin return in any EV and you have to really on the crap network

I think that's one of the better routes no (at least east side) - especially with Easy Go in the mix.

No Ionity or even Tesla charger in Galway I believe, probably have to stop in Athlone once or twice

Tesla plans to install superchargers in Athenry.

Shefwedfan

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its for people that don't want a BEV yet and hassle of crap charging network

If every service station in the country had a charger I would also say stupid idea

Network is what the government should getting right, short range EV would do 99% population then

Try to go Galway-Dublin return in any EV and you have to really on the crap network

No Ionity or even Tesla charger in Galway I believe, probably have to stop in Athlone once or twice

Checked ESB one there and half Galway ones are either broke or in use

What has the charging network got to do with a diesel PHEV?

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

In my case

I would use electric all week and diesel for long trips at the weekend

Using up all battery on long trip, then let engine kick in, maybe charge somewhere if I stop

Its not suited to small Kias etc, but for big Mercedes, Audi etc think it can work

They are going to offer X5 with 24kWh battery and 2.0 diesel in 2021, that would suit well

Think Germans will try it anyway

I'd love that, would ahve the x5 40e now except it only has 20km range at best

redcup342

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its for people that don't want a BEV yet and hassle of crap charging network

If every service station in the country had a charger I would also say stupid idea

Network is what the government should getting right, short range EV would do 99% population then

Try to go Galway-Dublin return in any EV and you have to really on the crap network

No Ionity or even Tesla charger in Galway I believe, probably have to stop in Athlone once or twice

Checked ESB one there and half Galway ones are either broke or in use

Would make zero sense, Diesel engines are way too heavy to cart around, 24kw battery wouldn't get you very far.

You'd just be better off buying a cheap second hand diesel if your goal is to save money.

ELM327

redcup342 wrote: »

Would make zero sense, Diesel engines are way too heavy to cart around, 24kw battery wouldn't get you very far.

You'd just be better off buying a cheap second hand diesel if your goal is to save money.

*kWh


And it would get me my whole 65-70km commute to work and then some, I'd guess

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

*kWh


And it would get me my whole 65-70km commute to work and then some, I'd guess

Someone gets it

X5 could commute to work for most people all week and at the weekend it can do what its designed to do and go on 300-400km family trips on it's big diesel engine