Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

fly_agaric

Aegir wrote: »

Indeed.

When the highly educated Irish electorate voted against a treaty because it meant forced abortions and conscription in to an Eu army.

I sense some sarcasm about the sophisticated Irish electorate there...sort of agree with you. If the electorate is stupid enough to go full eurosceptic + chase after the Brits to to free ourselves of future EU armies or what not, "we" deserve everything that will be coming to us.

At least Britain really was a global super-power/empire almost within living memory so I can sort of understand where a public delusion that can just put the finger up to all their neighbours and allies and plow their own furrow in the wider world comes from. We've been put firmly in our place in the past and used as a toy by the leaders of the great power next door so don't have that excuse!

For Forks Sake

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No thanks, give us back the old roads and f*ck right off EU

Misquoting the name of a 'book' by John bloody Waters? Think that summarizes the level of intellect on show here.

ltd440

Unbelievable as it seems, I think the clown that Boris is he does believe in English exceptionalisn and will take the UK out. I mean if you listen to his father he sounds like the colonel from fawlty towers

ArchXStanton

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I am very well versed on the Lisbon situation. It was the wrong answer the first time so it was run again. It was essentially the same treaty the second time, and yes I know there were minuscule differences.

The bulk of the treaty was retained with a few "concessions" added on for an excuse for a revote, The French and Dutch had their referendums ignored on the EU constitution and they stuck it in the Lisbon treaty that was then ratified, the EU is a fcuking disgrace when it comes to democracy.

https://brexitcentral.com/irish-observer-warned-2013-pro-eu-elite-seek-block-brexit/

Carry

Kidchameleon,

in my first contribution to this thread I asked you simple questions about your opinion like "How so" and "why". Your answer was as fluffy as those you gave to more specific questions and answers of other more accommodating boardsies.


So now tell us without regurgitating soundbites that whirl around your head because the internet, and to make it very simple for you:

- How is the EU a bad thing?

- Why is Brexit a good thing?

- What are the consequences of disolving the EU at large? Especially for Britain?

- Since you seem to be so concerned about immigration, what do you think about the status of Brits living abroad (that is outside of the UK)?

-Or rather "leftie": What's wrong with unifying people and peoples to work together to aim for the best of worlds, if not the perfect world? There is no such thing like perfect. But there is good trying and working on it and making compromises. Like in every relationship.

- What makes you think that Britain is better off going it on their own? And why do you trust the likes of Trump or other countries that trade deals are a done thing?

- And lastly: Why do you think that a male politician would be so much harder as a negotiator ("harder" -no pun intended, almost)? Though you backtracked a bit about female leaders.
Don't you think that good old Maggie Thatcher would call you a wimp? Backtracking?


Actually I'm not really going into that last point. I am a woman and I'm not in the least accommodating and very much not eager to please. And in real life I have a reputation to sqeeze the balls to transgender status of every man who thinks he might get the better of me.

But this is not real life, so don't be afraid. Just tell me and the rest of us your reasonable arguments to corroborate your opinion.

And please not by digging a deeper hole you're already in.

Carry

Carry wrote: »

Actually I'm not really going into that last point. I am a woman and I'm not in the least accommodating and very much not eager to please. And in real life I have a reputation to sqeeze the balls to transgender status of every man who thinks he might get the better of me.

You lost the run of yourself spectacularly here. Narcissistic drivel.

Carry

Deleted User wrote: »

You lost the run of yourself spectacularly here. Narcissistic drivel.

Yes, me bad girl. Trump, Boris et al good boys.

Go on.

Carry

Carry wrote: »

Yes, me bad girl. Trump, Boris et al good boys.

Go on.

There's no point at all. You're grasping at thin air.

Kidchameleon

Hi I am off to the airport and will be gone until Tuesday so I thought I would address your points quickly.

Carry wrote: »

How is the EU a bad thing?

No respect for democracy

Carry wrote: »

Why is Brexit a good thing?

It destabilizes the anti democratic EU and gives Britain its independence back

Carry wrote: »

What are the consequences of disolving the EU at large? Especially for Britain?

No idea, it wont be a pretty ride for sure but it will be better in the long run for everyone

Carry wrote: »

Since you seem to be so concerned about immigration, what do you think about the status of Brits living abroad (that is outside of the UK)?

I have not once mentioned immigration.

Carry wrote: »

What's wrong with unifying people and peoples to work together to aim for the best of worlds, if not the perfect world? There is no such thing like perfect. But there is good trying and working on it and making compromises. Like in every relationship.

Countries should retain their identity. Britain should remain British, Ireland should remain Irish etc. The EU is slowly but deliberately eroding our national identities.

Carry wrote: »

What makes you think that Britain is better off going it on their own? And why do you trust the likes of Trump or other countries that trade deals are a done thing?

They were fine before they signed up and will be fine after. There are plenty of countries not in the EU that are doing well.

Carry wrote: »

Why do you think that a male politician would be so much harder as a negotiator ("harder" -no pun intended, almost)? Though you backtracked a bit about female leaders.

As per mod instructions, I cannot go into it. I gave scientific evidence to my claim earlier in the thread. Its not really a claim actually, it is a fact.

Carry wrote: »

Don't you think that good old Maggie Thatcher would call you a wimp? Backtracking?

No, she is dead.

Carry wrote: »

Actually I'm not really going into that last point. I am a woman and I'm not in the least accommodating and very much not eager to please. And in real life I have a reputation to sqeeze the balls to transgender status of every man who thinks he might get the better of me.

But this is not real life, so don't be afraid. Just tell me and the rest of us your reasonable arguments to corroborate your opinion.

You are an exception to the rule so. Like a tall woman would be an exception to the rule that men are generally taller than women. Or a man with large breasts would be an exception to the rule that women generally have larger breasts than men.

Carry wrote: »

And please not by digging a deeper hole you're already in.

OK

First Up

Kidchameleon wrote:

Hi I am off to the airport and will be gone until Tuesday so I thought I would address your points quickly.

If you have time on your trip, could you jot down which bits of Europe's history of fuedalism and nationalism we should aim to replicate by ditching the EU?

Reati

Kidchameleon wrote: »

.
Countries should retain their identity. Britain should remain British, Ireland should remain Irish etc. The EU is slowly but deliberately eroding our national identities.

I believe a cursory look at the past shows the British have been eroding national identities, languages and culture of other countries for a great deal of their history. I've yet to see the EU do anything of the sort.

dudara

On a less serious note, I am frankly embarrassed for Britain. This is the country which fielded a great navy, built an empire and held back Germany in the early days of WWII. They’ve currently spent the last 3 years squabbling amongst themselves and with everyone else. Where is the famous British resolve?

I personally think Brexit is a bad move, but I do wish they’d get on with it so that we can work through it and come out the other side.

In my mind, it’s also no coincidence that this anti-EU sentiment is emerging strongly at the time when the last of the WWII survivors are dying off. The EU (and it’s predecessors) was in part an effort to prevent WWII from ever happening again. Most of Europe has had over 70 years of peace. But wheels turn and memories move on.

Boggles

dudara wrote: »

Where is the famous British resolve?

Purposely leaving one of the biggest economies in the world weakens resolve.

It's another pup they were sold that they would get good old Blighty back again.

We saw a very real tangible consequence of it yesterday where China basically took a diplomatic dump on them.

That is embarrassing and pretty dangerous.

Auguste Comte

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Hi I am off to the airport and will be gone until Tuesday so I thought I would address your points quickly.



No respect for democracy



It destabilizes the anti democratic EU and gives Britain its independence back



No idea, it wont be a pretty ride for sure but it will be better in the long run for everyone



I have not once mentioned immigration.



Countries should retain their identity. Britain should remain British, Ireland should remain Irish etc. The EU is slowly but deliberately eroding our national identities.



They were fine before they signed up and will be fine after. There are plenty of countries not in the EU that are doing well.



As per mod instructions, I cannot go into it. I gave scientific evidence to my claim earlier in the thread. Its not really a claim actually, it is a fact.



No, she is dead.



You are an exception to the rule so. Like a tall woman would be an exception to the rule that men are generally taller than women. Or a man with large breasts would be an exception to the rule that women generally have larger breasts than men.



OK

Some people just wanna watch the world burn

ArchXStanton

Reati wrote: »

I believe a cursory look at the past shows the British have been eroding national identities, languages and culture of other countries for a great deal of their history. I've yet to see the EU do anything of the sort.

Aye, just be glad this nutcase wasn't "appointed" commission president, not that it matters as the top tier of the EU seems to be inhabited with nutcases, we've now got Ursula Von something or other, another federalist fanatic most people have never even heard of.... And the IMFs Lagarde tipped for president of the ECB... Jesus H Christ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q94syUDDhxA

blinding

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Aye, just be glad this nutcase wasn't "appointed" commission president, not that it matters as the top tier of the EU seems to be inhabited with nutcases, we've now got Ursula Von something or other, another federalist fanatic most people have never even heard of.... And the IMFs Lagarde tipped for president of the ECB... Jesus H Christ..

<SNIP>

His Peace and Freedom and if you don’t do it his way , he will Drive his Peace and Freedom through you for your Benefit .

These People are Insane . They will decide whats best for You and definitely Not allow You Decide .

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote:

Aye, just be glad this nutcase wasn't "appointed" commission president, not that it matters as the top tier of the EU seems to be inhabited with nutcases, we've now got Ursula Von something or other, another federalist fanatic most people have never even heard of.... And the IMFs Lagarde tipped for president of the ECB... Jesus H Christ..

You sound terrified.

Which bits of these dangerous fanatics worry you the most?

ArchXStanton

First Up wrote: »

You sound terrified.

Which bits of these dangerous fanatics worry you the most?

Terrified? More bemused that people are standing by watching these failed politicians in their own countries destroy Europe as we know it... Not to mention their immigration policy, shady trade deals, austerity, complete lack of respect for democracy, article 13,nepotism, a charade of a parliament, a union were France and Germany seem to set the agenda... But you go right on ahead and wave your little blue flag...

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote:

Terrified? More bemused that people are standing by watching these failed politicians in their own countries destroy Europe as we know it... Not to mention their immigration policy, shady trade deals, austerity, complete lack of respect for democracy, article 13,nepotism, a union were France and Germany seem to set the agenda... But you go right on ahead and wave your little blue flag...

Well that's the problem with representative democracy. We vote for people to make decisions and if we don't like the decisions all we can do is vote for someone else.

A bitch huh?

ArchXStanton

First Up wrote: »

Well that's the problem with representative democracy. We vote for people to make decisions and if we don't like the decisions all we can do is vote for someone else.

A bitch huh?

I wouldn't even give that charade the legitimacy it so desperately wants by voting in their elections(pretty dismal voter turnout huh? ) the real democratic deficit in the EU is it doesn't have the people's consent to be a governing body and it wasn't for our politicians to give away

Professor Moriarty

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I wouldn't even give that charade the legitimacy it so desperately wants by voting in their elections(pretty dismal voter turnout huh? ) the real democratic deficit in the EU is it doesn't have the people's consent to be a governing body and it wasn't for our politicians to give away

Well, Irish people want to be part of this awful institution by a factor of 9/1. Also, turnout across the EU actually rose in the last election by 8% to 51%. Not bad eh?

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote:

I wouldn't even give that charade the legitimacy it so desperately wants by voting in their elections(pretty dismal voter turnout huh? ) the real democratic deficit in the EU is it doesn't have the people's consent to be a governing body and it wasn't for our politicians to give away

The EU isn't a governing body. Its a rules based association of democratically elected sovereign governments. If you want to debate its legitimacy you should start by learning what you are talking about.

But if you are more comfortable trotting out cliches from your sofa, then go right ahead. The grown ups will take it from here.

ArchXStanton

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well, Irish people want to be part of this awful institution by a factor of 9/1. Also, turnout across the EU actually rose in the last election by 8% to 51%. Not bad eh?

Wooow 51% hahaha

How many do you think came out to vote eurosceptics?

Dytalus

ArchXStanton wrote: »

I wouldn't even give that charade the legitimacy it so desperately wants by voting in their elections(pretty dismal voter turnout huh? ) the real democratic deficit in the EU is it doesn't have the people's consent to be a governing body and it wasn't for our politicians to give away

Except...we had a referendum on EU membership. In fact we've had several:

• 1973 on the enlargement of the European Communities
• 1987 on the Single European Act (establishing the single market)
• 1992 to accept the Maastricht Treaty (which founded the EU)
• 1998 we accepted the Treaty of Amsterdam (which transferred additional competencies from national to EU government)

So never mind that the whole reason we elect politicians is to make these types of political decisions for us, they never made the decision to join the EU.

We did.

Professor Moriarty

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Wooow 51% hahaha

How many do you think came out to vote eurosceptics?

51% is good considering the context. Can't think why you would assume otherwise. Why don't you google your question and find out?

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote:

How many do you think came out to vote eurosceptics?

You wouldn't even get off your arse to do that, so your whinges about it being anti-democratic ring a bit hollow don't you think?

ArchXStanton

First Up wrote: »

The EU isn't a governing body. Its a rules based association of democratically elected sovereign governments. If you want to debate its legitimacy you should start by learning what you are talking about.

But if you are more comfortable trotting out cliches from your sofa, then go right ahead. The grown ups will take it from here.

Aye I see you're still pontificating on here after allthese years...I'd put money on it you'll throw your toys out of the pram in the next few posts

I'm well versed in how the EU operates, I was a no campaigner here during the Lisbon revote

First Up

ArchXStanton wrote:

I'm well versed in how the EU operates,

All evidence to the contrary.

ArchXStanton

Dytalus wrote: »

Except...we had a referendum on EU membership. In fact we've had several:

• 1973 on the enlargement of the European Communities
• 1987 on the Single European Act (establishing the single market)
• 1992 to accept the Maastricht Treaty (which founded the EU)
• 1998 we accepted the Treaty of Amsterdam (which transferred additional competencies from national to EU government)

So never mind that the whole reason we elect politicians is to make these types of political decisions for us, they never made the decision to join the EU.

We did.

Eh we joined the EEC...

Professor Moriarty

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Aye I see you're still pontificating on here after allthese years...I'd put money on it you'll throw your toys out of the pram in the next few posts

I'm well versed in how the EU operates, I was a no campaigner here during the Lisbon revote

So you've given up on your principles? That's a pity for you.