Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Boggles

Tell me how wrote: »

They're not talking about overthrowing anything.
They're talking about letting people vote again given the 3 years since the referendum, the realisation that promises beforehand were just lies, the shambles in the HoC since and the absence of a workable plan from anyone in the UK.

Having a 2nd vote within the next year would be democracy in action.

Do you think their would be no lies told if a 2nd vote was granted?

I imagine it would dwarf the BS from the first one by some margin, they would also have the stick of Democracy been Trampled, etc.

blinding

Elemonator wrote: »

The biggest argument against democracy is the common voter...

You are not a Democrat .

Tell me how

Boggles wrote: »

Do you think their would be no lies told if a 2nd vote was granted?

I imagine it would dwarf the BS from the first one by some margin, they would also have the stick of Democracy been Trampled, etc.

Of course there would, but, they'd be countered by the facts that no Brexiteer was able to suggest a workable solution, no decent trade deals have been done and jobs have been lost in UK.

Boggles

Tell me how wrote: »

Of course there would, but, they'd be countered by the facts that no Brexiteer was able to suggest a workable solution, no decent trade deals have been done and jobs have been lost in UK.

I'm not so sure any counter argument would be listened to, my suspicion for this?

The Brexit Party just won a national vote by some margin.

InTheShadows

Tell me how wrote: »

They're not talking about overthrowing anything.
They're talking about letting people vote again given the 3 years since the referendum, the realisation that promises beforehand were just lies, the shambles in the HoC since and the absence of a workable plan from anyone in the UK.

Having a 2nd vote within the next year would be democracy in action.

Where would you stop though? Best of three? Honestly it would do more harm than good. People here in Ireland are really underestimating how strongly the majority in the UK feel about this,

InTheShadows

Boggles wrote: »

A lot of them were though, and a lot of them were just simpletons who would believe anything as long as it was written on the side of a bus.

Not strictly all their fault, the red tops and the populist inbred rich politicians poked the hive as well. Of course none of them will suffer.

But the proof is in the pudding, Brexit was going to be "easy", well no. They were sold a pup.

Case in point.

Boggles

InTheShadows wrote: »

Case in point.

It's the truth.

InTheShadows

Boggles wrote: »

It's the truth.

Look you've already called them thick c*unts and now simpletons. Sit down and think about that.

lawred2

InTheShadows wrote: »

Look you've already called them thick c*unts and now simpletons. Sit down and think about that.

Well when you choose to ignore evidence and instead believe proven lies then you are more than likely nothing other than a thick cnut

InTheShadows

InTheShadows wrote: »

Look you've already called them thick c*unts and now simpletons. Sit down and think about that.

I hate to say it but there is a reason.

They actively believed proven lies, dismissed people with knowledge as "Experts" and having enough of "experts giving opinion".

This was not a general election where a politician will lie left and right for a vote, this was a Referendum with the information easily available and an advocate's stance easily examined/challenged.
Rather than do the basic critical examination of evidence they followed the big red bus to nationalism central

Professor Moriarty

lawred2 wrote: »

Well when you choose to ignore evidence and instead believe proven lies then you are more than likely nothing other than a think cnut

Bit harsh. Useful idiots.

Boggles

InTheShadows wrote: »

Look you've already called them thick c*unts and now simpletons. Sit down and think about that.

I absolute stand by that.

The poster I was replying to mused that Brexit supporters would feel aggrieved as to why all the immigrants were not all gone after Article 50 was triggered.

i.e that is all people originally from the 27 countries currently residing in Britain did not leave immediately and I guess by extension all Brits living abroad would come home.

I think I was being kind with "thick cúnts" TBH.

Tell me how

InTheShadows wrote: »

Where would you stop though? Best of three? Honestly it would do more harm than good. People here in Ireland are really underestimating how strongly the majority in the UK feel about this,

I've siblings and friends in UK. One brother is a business owner (non-export).

You do know there's governmental elections every 5 years. Why is that? Because circumstances change.

An Claidheamh

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Simple, it does not care about democracy. I used to be pro EU by the way.

Kid chameleon, it is the British who will not leave.

BRITAIN REFUSES TO LEAVE.

The EU are not forcing to to stay.

But, the Brits will not blame themselves

Historically, Britain has always struggled with the definition of democracy, as we well know here.....

An Claidheamh

KildareP wrote: »

Of course they don't want Britain to leave.
But they're not making Britain stay either.

Oi Oi Oi

Stop with your logic you EU Bully!

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

Seeing as the UK actually contributes money to the European Union, I’d say the Brexit party MEPs are actually pocketing their own money, not Ireland’s.

You say that as if Britain has been voluntarily subsidising the EU, rather than paying that money to get much more back by virtue of free access to a market of another 450 million people. This is one of the big lies of Brexiteers.

The enormous success of London's financial services, for instance, because of EU membership has given much more back to the British economy than what Britain has paid in. The notion among Brexiteers that Britain has paid money into the EU as some form of charity is plainly risible. But then again if Brexit is powered by anything, it's by the most wilfully ignorant and gullible electorate in western Europe.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

But then again if Brexit is powered by anything, it's by the most wilfully ignorant and gullible electorate in western Europe.

Ah here, we've voted in a FF/FG/FF cycle for a 100 years while expecting change every time!!

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah here, we've vote in an FF/FG/FF cycle for a 100 years while expecting change every time!!

Poor Labour.

Tell me how

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah here, we've vote in an FF/FG/FF cycle for a 100 years while expecting change every time!!

Yes but Greens, Labour, Independents, have gotten opportunity to influence policy at a pretty consistent level for last 30 years.

I don't know what way people expect the government to dramatically change. We have virtually full employment, good access to education and in terms of healthcare, the budget for that more than doubled in last 12 years or so.

jimmycrackcorm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If the EU are so perfect then why do the British want to leave? Why is there growing resentment towards the union? There are plenty of things the EU has done delay Brexit. For example the extortionate divorce bill, allowing an extension until October 31st, the blatant opposition to Brexit from top EU officials, I could go on and on.

I think the more print question should be that out of 28 countries, why is it that the UK is the only one that wants to leave.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Poor Labour.

Labour decided to go in as a minor party with FG, who did not really need them, in a blinkered attempt at curbing FG excess, as opposed to being the leaders of the austerity opposition.
Their naive vision and inability to play a longer game allowed FG to destroy them as a future threat, by turning their swing voters completely against them. Taking the blame for all the worst of FG policy.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Yes but Greens, Labour, Independents, have gotten opportunity to influence policy at a pretty consistent level for last 30 years.

I don't know what way people expect the government to dramatically change. We have virtually full employment, good access to education and in terms of healthcare, the budget for that more than doubled in last 12 years or so.

Influence policy is not creating policy.
influencing a policy which attacks your core demographic will never get you plaudits and junior parties always take the flak for the FF/G party anger because people, incorrectly, believe that they vote the minority party to curb the major (See: PDs, Greens, Labour, Independents soon?)

We have a somewhat doctored unemployment figure (not huge but enough to be worth mentioning)
2nd highest college fee system in the EU (UK is first actually)
2 tier health care system with a missing middle not covered by Private or Public.
Budget thrown at health, without correct audit of structural weakness.


FF and FG are different sides of the same coin and their popularity is not based on political ideology rather than still being a Civil War legacy.
It has destroyed a centre left (or even left of centre) parties and left us with the un-electable fringe socialist crazies alá PBP

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah here, we've vote in an FF/FG/FF cycle for a 100 years while expecting change every time!!

Yes, and the Brexiteers manage the extraordinary feat of even making the Blueshirts - God help us - look like culturally enlightened intellectuals with a social conscience.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, and the Brexiteers manage the extraordinary feat of even making the Blueshirts - God help us - look like culturally enlightened intellectuals with a social conscience.

OK fair enough.

Standman

We've been through 800 years of oppression from the ruthless Brits. But we have to ask now, is democracy working? As Churchill said, if you want to know the biggest argument against democracy, talk to the average voter.

Kidchameleon

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Kid chameleon, it is the British who will not leave.

BRITAIN REFUSES TO LEAVE.

The EU are not forcing to to stay.

But, the Brits will not blame themselves

Historically, Britain has always struggled with the definition of democracy, as we well know here.....

Which is why they need a pm who will have the guts to leave, deal or no deal. It is not the people who are refusing to leave (they voted to leave) it is the establishment.

Kidchameleon

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think the more print question should be that out of 28 countries, why is it that the UK is the only one that wants to leave.

It wont be the only one for long. What you are seeing is the turning of the tide.

Tell me how

Kidchameleon wrote: »

It wont be the only one for long. What you are seeing is the turning of the tide.

Why do you want the EU to disband?

All representatives are voted in.
Since it's inception, prosperity for all countries involved has increased.
Since it's inception, Europe has by and large been a much less dangerous place in terms of armed conflict.
Citizens have benefitted from free movement.
Businesses have benefitted from the single market.
Environmental issues have been targeted more than if all countries were doing so individually.

Why do you think we'd be better off without it?

kunst nugget

Kidchameleon wrote: »

It wont be the only one for long. What you are seeing is the turning of the tide.

Statements like this are utterly meaningless and without a shred of substance. Not one country has come forward to follow Britain into the abyss and in fact we've seen a toning down of rhetoric in many countries across the EU where it's now about reforming the EU from within rather than jumping ship.

Dytalus

Kidchameleon wrote: »

It wont be the only one for long. What you are seeing is the turning of the tide.

People said that when the result first came in. Since then the call for countries to have their own exits has dropped dramatically.

• Italy? Totally dropped from the agenda. They might try to break out of the Euro but that doesn't have much in the way of momentum. Salvini, La Liga, and the Five Star movement have no plans to leave the block altogether.
• Marine Le Pen in France has totally dropped her euro referendum in favour of a "europe of nations" - which is essentially a call for EU reform and not break up.
• The Freedom Party in Austria abandoned their own euro-zone referendum, and have made no calls or motions towards their own break away.
• And the guy calling for it in the Netherlands got hammered at the next elections for it.

And, of course our own brand: Irexit had a hilariously poor performance in the recent elections.

So...when are the dominoes supposed to start falling?