Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

Danzy

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Russian interference :rolleyes: only a 7 year old thinks the Russians can swing Brexit and US presidential election votes.

Russia are the new Jewish world conspiracy, controlling everything yet have an economy equal to tiny Belgium and the Netherlands.

FunLover18

boring accountant wrote: »

Fair enough. I don't particularly agree with him, his neoliberal policies or his disregard for the Irish question but if every politician was as polite and respectful as him British politics would be a lot more civilised than it is now.

He's a self-serving, elitist prig.

Professor Moriarty

boring accountant wrote: »

Fair enough. I don't particularly agree with him, his neoliberal policies or his disregard for the Irish question but if every politician was as polite and respectful as him British politics would be a lot more civilised than it is now.

Do I need to link to a picture of him lying across the front bench in the HoC?

boring accountant

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Do I need to link to a picture of him lying across the front bench in the HoC?

I saw it. I laughed.

FrancieBrady

boring accountant wrote: »

That's totally at odds with basically everyone who knows him, including those on the opposite benches.

What do you mean? Is there opinions of him from all his colleagues out there somewhere? Can you link to them?

boring accountant

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What do you mean? Is there opinions of him from all his colleagues out there somewhere? Can you link to them?

As I'm not bound by the rules of the forum to do so, no. But it's well known that he maintains good relations with colleagues from all sides of the political spectrum.

FrancieBrady

boring accountant wrote: »

As I'm not bound by the rules of the forum to do so, no. But it's well known that he maintains good relations with colleagues from all sides of the political spectrum.

I'm sure he does. But you made the claim, that it is the opinion of 'basically everyone who knows him including those on the opposite benches', but you won't back up how you know this.

boring accountant

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm sure he does. But you made the claim, that it is the opinion of 'basically everyone who knows him including those on the opposite benches', but you won't back up how you know this.

Well, you've already said you're sure I'm right, so no need for back up.

Joe_ Public

I'm guessing this is a reference to that weird thing that was going on between mogg and Jess Phillips, kind of hand across the barricade type stunt. Not phillips finest hour if you ask me.

FrancieBrady

boring accountant wrote: »

Well, you've already said you're sure I'm right, so no need for back up.

No, you didn't say 'basically everyone' the second time around. You were backpedaling already because you have no way of backing that up.

mikhail

Danzy wrote: »

Russia are the new Jewish world conspiracy, controlling everything yet have an economy equal to tiny Belgium and the Netherlands.

It's almost like people have explained and proven the really cheap mechanism by which they are sowing discord in those countries. Maybe you're right, and the state-backed troll farms are just a big lark they're wasting money on to amuse Putin.

boring accountant

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, you didn't say 'basically everyone' the second time around. You were backpedaling already because you have no way of backing that up.

Let me frontpedal again. Everyone in the WORLD loves Jacob Rees Mogg. Sources to follow.

FrancieBrady

boring accountant wrote: »

Let me frontpedal again. Everyone in the WORLD loves Jacob Rees Mogg. Sources to follow.

Job done. Thanks for spectacularly displaying that you were just protectively bull****ting.

boring accountant

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Job done. Thanks for spectacularly displaying that you were just protectively bull****ting.

Thanks for protecting the Social & Fun forum from hyperbole. You're doing the lord's work.

FrancieBrady

boring accountant wrote: »

Thanks for protecting the Social & Fun forum from hyperbole. You're doing the lord's work.

You are on that bike again, facing the wrong way. Nite nite.

Good article by the consistently solid Paul Gillespie in The Irish Times, about how political opinion in Wales, for the first time, is moving towards independence and how this will make unionists in the North even more marginalised:

World View: Welsh are finding it harder to make the case for the Union: Some 40 per cent of Welsh voters are now ‘indy-curious’, according to a YouGov poll

Eric Cartman

I see sheep wrote: »

Says Grenfell Tower victims didn't have the 'common sense' to go against instructions from Fire Service.

Tories couldn't care less about the Grenfell tragedy as it was mostly immigrants, and all working class people, people the Tory party despise.

Rees-Mogg’s guide to Grenfell:

NOT TO BLAME
Tory refusal to pass laws on sprinklers and cladding
Council that cut corners and ignored residents
Outsourcing of management of tower
Cuts to fire brigade
Austerity

TO BLAME
The victims

how is that racist though ?

26000 Elephants

The Welsh seem to have found the sweet spot between being part of the union and retaining their identity - I guess their language is a big part of that. I find myself in Wales more often than I should need to be (a terrible IT supplier in Bangor) but I'm always aware that I'm in Wales, not England, whereas I never get that same feeling in Scotland. Ive never met any Welsh who were overtly independent leaning in any way - it would be a terrible indictment of Brexit it it resulted in that.

I guess with all the messing on Westminster, anything is possible.

ancapailldorcha

26000 Elephants wrote: »

The Welsh seem to have found the sweet spot between being part of the union and retaining their identity - I guess their language is a big part of that. I find myself in Wales more often than I should need to be (a terrible IT supplier in Bangor) but I'm always aware that I'm in Wales, not England, whereas I never get that same feeling in Scotland. Ive never met any Welsh who were overtly independent leaning in any way - it would be a terrible indictment of Brexit it it resulted in that.

I guess with all the messing on Westminster, anything is possible.

I wonder how much, if any of that is down to the fact that Edward I was the one who conquered Wales in the thirteenth century while Scotland wasn't properly part of the UK until the 1707 Act of Union.

ILoveYourVibes

What do you make of this?

“I’ve applied for Irish citizenship.” Pre-Brexit, this would have been amazing to hear in a cut-glass accent by a late-middle-aged upper-class British woman. But Brexit was looming and she didn’t want any hassle commuting to her country home, in France.

“Really? So you must have an Irish grandparent?”

“No, my father was born in Dublin. In 1920. He’s wasn’t Irish. He did not go to school there. Nothing like that.”

Not Irish in any ethnic sense, Cut Glass was anxious to make that quite clear.

“But Ireland wasn’t an independent country then. It was still under British rule. Why was your family there?”

“My grandfather was, um, part of the government.”

In a situation replete with ironies and contradictions, this was particularly rich to take part in.

The grandchild of a British official, stationed in Ireland during the final, brutal years of a centuries-long struggle for independence, was relying on the fact that her father was born in Dublin. Her grandfather was there fighting to uphold British rule and prevent the creation of the country she was now seeking to join.

But join only in the most superficial sense. She wasn’t going to live there. Nothing like that.

https://www.thebattleground.eu/articles/2019/11/06/irelands-brit-hangover/?fbclid=IwAR3g-ZixNlum_3WxYdM5dyz8mOhahK4doZcdHa-KvHaWzVyl9TUmEpBrKt4

I mean immigrants from ..wherever living here paying taxes who would be proud to be irish are applying for passports!

It irked me.

ILoveYourVibes

The next extension date will come and go if the Tories get a majority.

Mind you it will probably come and go no matter who is in Govt.

Stop moaning ffs

26000 Elephants wrote: »

The Welsh seem to have found the sweet spot between being part of the union and retaining their identity - I guess their language is a big part of that. I find myself in Wales more often than I should need to be (a terrible IT supplier in Bangor) but I'm always aware that I'm in Wales, not England, whereas I never get that same feeling in Scotland. Ive never met any Welsh who were overtly independent leaning in any way - it would be a terrible indictment of Brexit it it resulted in that.

I guess with all the messing on Westminster, anything is possible.

Always confused me that.

The welsh managed not only to hang onto their language fiercely but made it de rigeur and so normal whereas Ireland and Scotland lost theirs so relatively easily

Yet the welsh towed the line in on brexit and Scotland and NI didn’t


This will keep historians and social commentary experts confused for a very long time I reckon.

fly_agaric

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What do you make of this?



https://www.thebattleground.eu/articles/2019/11/06/irelands-brit-hangover/?fbclid=IwAR3g-ZixNlum_3WxYdM5dyz8mOhahK4doZcdHa-KvHaWzVyl9TUmEpBrKt4

I mean immigrants from ..wherever living here paying taxes who would be proud to be irish are applying for passports!

It irked me.

Would not be shocked if there's a load of them grabbing the passport purely as a flag of convenience. Some of them likely are proud "patriots" who voted to Brexit but don't want to risk any inconveniences in airports or be hindered taking up jobs in the EU as "Ex-Pats" in in the future. Serves us right in a way for our joke Granny/Grandad citizenship laws.

Danzy

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The next extension date will come and go if the Tories get a majority.

Mind you it will probably come and go no matter who is in Govt.

If the Tories have a majority, they'll pass their deal and the EU and Varadkar will celebrate and get down to negotiating the trade deal.

First Up

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

The welsh managed not only to hang onto their language fiercely but made it de rigeur and so normal whereas Ireland and Scotland lost theirs so relatively easily

Language is not the only (or most important) manifestation of identity. I lived in Scotland for a few years and never for a moment doubted I was in a country that was comfortable and secure in who it was - and it knew that wasn't England.

Stop moaning ffs

First Up wrote: »

Language is not the only (or most important) manifestation of identity. I lived in Scotland for a few years and never for a moment doubted I was in a country that was comfortable and secure in who it was - and it knew that wasn't England.

Feeling that 100%. Same experience as my own every time I’ve been there and within moments with the Scots I know.
On a scale They all pretty much go from being indifferent to loathing the English.
But they’d almost all entirely prefer independence.

Just weird to see wales finally wake up with the same call.

First Up

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Feeling that 100%. Same experience as my own every time I’ve been there and within moments with the Scots I know. On a scale They all pretty much go from being indifferent to loathing the English. But they’d almost all entirely prefer independence.

Well they got the chance to decide and they voted to stay in the UK. But that was before the Brexit idiocy.

Danzy

Labour party looking at adding the motions on migration passed at their conference to the manifesto.

It includes such gems as extending freedom of movement to people around the world😯

Closing all migration detention centres. Extending the vote to all resident regardless of citizenship, committing to no upper limit on migration in to Britain and a few more.

This will play well in radical activist suburban homes or among libertarian CEOs but among the electorate and especially the working class it is toxic.

Maybe their strategy is to get Johnson a majority and get Brexit over with.

Spanish Eyes

Danzy wrote: »

Labour party looking at adding the motions on migration passed at their conference to the manifesto.

It includes such gems as extending freedom of movement to people around the world��

Closing all migration detention centres. Extending the vote to all resident regardless of citizenship, committing to no upper limit on migration in to Britain and a few more.

This will play well in radical activist suburban homes or among libertarian CEOs but among the electorate and especially the working class it is toxic.

Maybe their strategy is to get Johnson a majority and get Brexit over with.

They would be fools to do otherwise. Everyone knows Brexit will be a very costly thing for everyone rich and poor and in the middle, but no one will say it.

However I doubt Brexit will happen anyway. And in a few years, with Corbyn gone to his allotment to tend to his parsnips, there may be a resurgent LP with core values, minus Momentum, sorry Leftie ERG, to worry about anymore.

Brexit does not seem to be an issue much in the election campaign or is it just me?

FrancieBrady

Did the Welsh ever fight for their independence?