Wretched election for Sinn Féin - what now?

_blaaz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

it will be interesting to see how many aontú will tear away from FG/SF

you don't see FF losing people on principles

Aontú should do well....peader tobin is a good guy and well able to hold his own in debates (would easy be junior minister capable if was in FG)



Though theyd want to stay well clear of american donations for being anti abortion,these generally tend to come from alt right sources with conditions attached

JohnnyFlash

Serious attempts at deflection going on here. At least one of the SF councillors elected in the last councils didn't have to put himself in front of the electorate for re-election.



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/exsf-man-told-torture-victim-he-was-in-ira-court-rules-35776781.html

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Serious attempts at deflection going on here. At least one of the SF councillors elected in the last councils didn't have to put himself in front of the electorate for re-election.



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/exsf-man-told-torture-victim-he-was-in-ira-court-rules-35776781.html

Hey Macerena...alright

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You'd need to have principles first.

that being the point!

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

that being the point!

I thought I'd hammer is home for the back of the class


I get the blue in the face one now mind. Sharp as a tack I am...

EmmetSpiceland

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Serious attempts at deflection going on here. At least one of the SF councillors elected in the last councils didn't have to put himself in front of the electorate for re-election.



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/exsf-man-told-torture-victim-he-was-in-ira-court-rules-35776781.html

Another “good republican”, is it, J?

James Brown

So we can't get Mary Lou on the 'RA so it's dodgy/criminal ex members of the party? We could be here all night with any of the top three.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So we can't get Mary Lou on the 'RA so it's dodgy/criminal ex members of the party? We could be here all night with any of the top three.

I truly believe Enda Kenny was one of the greatest leaders this country has ever seen. The history books will remember him very fondly. The man who brought the country back from the brink and laid the foundations for today's remarkable economic success. Like most truly great men - an understated and modest man.

James Brown

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

[img][/img]https://www.independent.ie/migration_catalog/article28803037.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/time-enda-kenny

I truly believe Enda Kenny was one of the greatest leaders this country has ever seen. The history books will remember him very fondly. The man who brought the country back from the brink and laid the foundations for today's remarkable economic success. Like most truly great men - an understated and modest man.

Yeah mark of quality.

Kenny is the biggest political waster, opportunity wise, of our time. He could have improved things but kept as was. Nobody has had the chance he did since the state first began. What a complete waste.
I think an Admin. Assistant from PWC could have done the same job if not better.

Any road, things may improve for SF in the standings we need see how inseparable FF/FG are to the electorate after the next crash. Be interesting any way.

Pintman Paddy Losty

The next election will see a FG lead government with Green and possibly Labour support. I think it will be FG's most successful government yet. SF will remain in the cheap seats with the looney left socialists. FF will grow to provide opposition.

JohnnyFlash

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The next election will see a FG lead government with Green and possibly Labour support. I think it will be FG's most successful government yet. SF will remain in the cheap seats with the looney left socialists. FF will grow to provide opposition.

That's a very astute summarisation, Patrick. Depends on when they go to the country, and if there's any 'proper scandal' that's revealed during the campaign.

FF still not polling will enough in marginal constituencies for MM to pull the trigger. I'd expect Labour or the Greens to take last seats in at least 11 of them. SF are in very serious trouble 'down South'. FG and Labour have always been better bedfellows than they let on. Good transfer policy in places like Wexford, Cork North, and Gaillimh West.

James Brown

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The next election will see a FG lead government with Green and possibly Labour support. I think it will be FG's most successful government yet. SF will remain in the cheap seats with the looney left socialists. FF will grow to provide opposition.

Probably. Doubt Labour will rise enough for that though. I think theres a strong chance FF will top FG.
FYI: FF are the opposition. Hard to tell I know.

Pintman Paddy Losty

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

That's a very astute summarisation, Patrick. Depends on when they go to the country, and if there's any 'proper scandal' that's revealed during the campaign.

FF still not polling will enough in marginal constituencies for MM to pull the trigger. I'd expect Labour or the Greens to take last seats in at least 11 of them. SF are in very serious trouble 'down South'. FG and Labour have always been better bedfellows than they let on. Good transfer policy in places like Wexford, Cork North, and Gaillimh West.

Agree Johnny.

I have a few friend who are well connected in Leinster house. They reckon depending on how brexit pans out in October you're looking at a March 2020 election. My sources have said that Leo is hoping for MM to pull the trigger but will happily call it himself after the LL and EU elections. The climate action plan has gone down very well. Eamon Ryan is suitably impressed and word is if enough concessions are given regarding public transport and cycle lanes hell Happily put the force of the green wave behind FG.

_blaaz

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The next election will see a FG lead government with Green and possibly Labour support. I think it will be FG's most successful government yet. SF will remain in the cheap seats with the looney left socialists. FF will grow to provide opposition.

Labour are polling at 6%.....and below 15 on transfers.....how are they going to reach any quota :pac:


And besides varadkar isnt viewed as a deal maker within FG...how is he going to negociate a rainbow coalition to last?

tayto lover

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Agree Johnny.

I have a few friend who are well connected in Leinster house. They reckon depending on how brexit pans out in October you're looking at a March 2020 election. My sources have said that Leo is hoping for MM to pull the trigger but will happily call it himself after the LL and EU elections. The climate action plan has gone down very well. Eamon Ryan is suitably impressed and word is if enough concessions are given regarding public transport and cycle lanes hell Happily put the force of the green wave behind FG.

The Greens are toxic. They kept FF in power against the wishes of the people and they will eventually cause damage to FG too if they get into bed with them.

Don’t forgot they only got 5% of the vote. They don’t deserve to be fawned over at all.

JohnnyFlash

tayto lover wrote: »

The Greens are toxic. They kept FF in power against the wishes of the people and they will eventually cause damage to FG too if they get into bed with them.

Don’t forgot they only got 5% of the vote. They don’t deserve to be fawned over at all.

The Greens are extremely transfer friendly. The last time they were in government they did a fine job in very difficult circumstances. They’ll be in government again. Because they are a party of pragmatism and not protest. That’s why they had massive gains in the last election, while the toxic message of SF was roundly rejected by the electorate.

That’s how ‘Boots and Ballot Box’ politics works. The online outrage is not worth a curse in reality.

Loafing Oaf

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The next election will see a FG lead government with Green and possibly Labour support. I think it will be FG's most successful government yet.

FG five points behind FF in the latest opinion poll. Just sayin...

JohnnyFlash

My sources in Kildare Street tell me there’s a huge amount of bitterness and acrimony amongst the SF parliamentarians at the moment. The knives are out for Mary Lou, but no one is tempted to stab her just yet. It’s a party in crisis at the moment. Even their Shinnernomic policies are failing to resonate with the public - normally the ‘we will give you more and someone else will pay for it’ approach works well.

If there is to be a heave then who are the contenders to take over?

jmayo

A lot of people never took to sinn fein because of the links to PIRA.
Then to top it off they were quite openly luading Garda killers post ceasefire.
The leaks about the rapists and child molesters being hidden from both justice system of the state and public scrutiny didn't ever help them gain traction with the same voters.

Now they always had support from those who saw their community work in poorer areas.
Hell some of those people might actually believe in the fairy tale economics they espouse.

But the thing is over the last few years they are associated with a shove for immigrants and asylum seekers which as others have said is finally being picked up on in particular by their normal core support as not in their interest.

Then to top it off the supposed average industrial wage mantra was laid bare
as the farce it really is.

Also they are now seen as female dominated, together with the incessant berration makes them come across as a party of continous shreiking women.

facehugger99

They did well out of a protest vote for a few years but their hypocrisy was laid bare after the last election when they, quite blatantly, decided they would rather hurl on the ditch than attempt to form a Government.

They have loads of competition on the hard-left trying to 'out-moneytree' them, most of the soft-left middle class abhor their murderous past and the United Ireland issue is not something the average voter wants to see anytime soon.

They are on a downward spiral that shows no sign of stopping.

James Brown

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Agree Johnny.

I have a few friend who are well connected in Leinster house. They reckon depending on how brexit pans out in October you're looking at a March 2020 election. My sources have said that Leo is hoping for MM to pull the trigger but will happily call it himself after the LL and EU elections. The climate action plan has gone down very well. Eamon Ryan is suitably impressed and word is if enough concessions are given regarding public transport and cycle lanes hell Happily put the force of the green wave behind FG.

This reads like a Fine Gael promo. Not so sure about the green plan going down very well but yes likely the Greens will jump in with any one of the two, (FF/FG) that'll have them. The Greens need more than being Green to push themselves up. SF are the obvious choice but stability and all that malarkey might reach FF who ruined the country and put us in generational debt, (administered by FG) but doesn't reach far enough to risk giving the shinners a chance.

Fan of Netflix

The tide has went out on all that liberal PC feminist bollocks they spout these days, particularly among their traditional voters. If they don't adapt to that they will be destroyed. I personally think they are finished, and I say that as a one of those who used to support them.

This won't be popular with some, but you'd actually be surprised at the amount of people I've met who were more supporters of the Provos than Sinn Fein. Once those ties to provos has been all but removed, and replaced by these liberal middle class feminists those traditional fellas have given up.

Loafing Oaf

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

This won't be popular with some, but you'd actually be surprised at the amount of people I've met who were more supporters of the Provos than Sinn Fein. Once those ties to provos has been all but removed, and replaced by these liberal middle class feminists those traditional fellas have given up.

It's not that it won't be popular it's that it makes no sense. Why did these guys only start voting for SF in any numbers when the IRA campaign was long over and the IRA had effectively disbanded?

James Brown

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

It's not that it won't be popular it's that it makes no sense. Why did these guys only start voting for SF in any numbers when the IRA campaign was long over and the IRA had effectively disbanded?

Yep. My issues with SF on a local level were the hardnecks that use to call to the door practically telling you to vote SF. With Adams gone it's in a transitional period and I can't see why folk are bitter and showing delight at the prospect of a 'RA free SF, a party that will live or die based on it's politics.
We need more than FF/FG. I was hopeful for the SD's, still am, but I'd happily vote SF over FF/FG any day of the week as I know both FG and FF are populated by a right shower of ****s.

Berserker

Strange that nobody mentioned their pro-choice stance. I know a person who canvasses for SF and the die-hard OAP voters brought it up at the door time and time again. SSM seemed bearable but abortion was a step too far. That along with the oversaturation of candidates on the hard left, was their downfall, in his mind.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Yep. My issues with SF on a local level were the hardnecks that use to call to the door practically telling you to vote SF. With Adams gone it's in a transitional period and I can't see why folk are bitter and showing delight at the prospect of a 'RA free SF, a party that will live or die based on it's politics.
We need more than FF/FG. I was hopeful for the SD's, still am, but I'd happily vote SF over FF/FG any day of the week as I know both FG and FF are populated by a right shower of ****s.

Why bother voting for SF though? They made it clear after the last election that they do not want to govern. They'll never be in a majority. We both know that. Are they any worse of a shower that FF/FG etc?

tayto lover

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The Greens are extremely transfer friendly. The last time they were in government they did a fine job in very difficult circumstances. They’ll be in government again. Because they are a party of pragmatism and not protest. That’s why they had massive gains in the last election, while the toxic message of SF was roundly rejected by the electorate.

That’s how ‘Boots and Ballot Box’ politics works. The online outrage is not worth a curse in reality.

I don’t give a damn about SF, never voted for them.
I’m saying that the Greens are not the answer. They only got 5% yet seem to be the media darlings, why? The last time they were in they cost motorists big time with the carbon tax yet backed all the FF policies too. How they do in Council Elections might not be replicated in a General Election hopefully.

Berserker

tayto lover wrote: »

I don’t give a damn about SF, never voted for them. I’m saying that the Greens are not the answer. They only got 5% yet seem to be the media darlings, why? The last time they were in they cost motorists big time with the carbon tax yet backed all the FF policies too. How they do in Council Elections might not be replicated in a General Election hopefully.

Because the media is controlled by middle and upper class folk in Dublin and climate change is their latest fad.

James Brown

Berserker wrote: »

....

Why bother voting for SF though? They made it clear after the last election that they do not want to govern. They'll never be in a majority. We both know that. Are they any worse of a shower that FF/FG etc?

Simply put, options available. I've never given SF a number 1 but I'll put them in the mix. I'd rather see an Indie, SD or SF in over any FF/FG chancer.
I don't know how they'll be. I know what FF/FG are. That's it mainly.

Berserker wrote: »

Because the media is controlled by middle and upper class folk in Dublin and climate change is their latest fad.

As i said to Green party supporter the other day, all it takes is for FF/FG to adopt some form of green policy to make the Green party irrelevant. They slag off SF as being about the struggle or whatever but will embrace the one trick pony that is the Greens.

Fan of Netflix

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

It's not that it won't be popular it's that it makes no sense. Why did these guys only start voting for SF in any numbers when the IRA campaign was long over and the IRA had effectively disbanded?

Eh? These were the guys who were voting for Sinn Fein long before they increased their votes in the Dail. The guys who didn't care about their IRA ties even supported them. The traditional core voters. Many of those are the ones who have given up. Sure look at their canvassing these days, it's a mess as the old school lads have packed it in. These younger women they tried to attract don't bother with that sort of stuff.

EmmetSpiceland

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They slag off SF as being about the struggle or whatever but will embrace the one trick pony that is the Greens.

It’s “The Cause” the SF lot are mad about.