Wretched election for Sinn Féin - what now?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

If the biggest problem that you can find is one TD making a compensation claim, this country must be in a great place.

The thing is, it's not just one TD, there's several of them, and an MEP too, to boot, and as it currently stands - there's very good reasons to suspect that this goes right the way up to ministerial level.

You can stop pretending it is about one TD, thanks.

Even in a thread about Sinn Fein, you seem to find a way to bring in your current hobby horse.

Did you type this out with a straight face? Even if the thread wasn't about Sinn Fein, you'd have probably turned it into one at this point, tell me I'm wrong if you like please, the instructions from the man with the bold pen will stand over me.

Next thing you will be posting a picture of FG social media bots.

Na, I wouldn't want anyone to start a big kerfuffle by claiming they're featured in the photo, besides FG made leo get rid of the latest one (we know about)

Tail - wag dog.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The thing is, it's not just one TD, there's several of them, and an MEP too, to boot, and as it currently stands - there's very good reasons to suspect that this goes right the way up to ministerial level.

You can stop pretending it is about one TD, thanks.


Did you type this out with a straight face? Even if the thread wasn't about Sinn Fein, you'd have probably turned it into one at this point, tell me I'm wrong if you like please, the instructions from the man with the bold pen will stand over me.



Na, I wouldn't want anyone to start a big kerfuffle by claiming they're featured in the photo, besides FG made leo get rid of the latest one (we know about)

Tail - wag dog.

Jesus. Give it a rest for God sake. This thread is about how SF performed abysmally in the recent elections and were roundly rejected by the public.

If you want to gallop on your current hobby horse toddle off to the Maria Bailey thread. If you're really stuck you can fire up that Drew Harris thread. Good lad.

Roger Hassenforder

Bar one thing the Sinners stand for nothing, but are against everything IMO.
Their Westminster absenteeism when they might have actually made a positive difference showed them up as unwilling/unable to change, stuck in the past, with little future.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The thing is, it's not just one TD, there's several of them, and an MEP too, to boot, .

Is that the Sinn Fein MEP that fell down the stairs and sued the Oireachtas in the High Court? At least that would be on topic.

facehugger99

Other than their murderous past and economic-lunacy policies, MLM comes across as an extremely dislikable person with a voice that would make your ears bleed.

ToddyDoody

I'd bet if they voted for the agreement in Westminster they'd be doing a lot better... or whatever the vote was where it would have made a difference.

James Brown

_blaaz wrote: »

Mate....if people cant afford a mortgage with the way rents are(or any reasonable lifestlye)....how do you propose they afford a pension



This is pure and utter shinnernomics nonsense.....theres no such thing as money trees

Japers. 'Shinnernomics'? I think it's others have us where we are to be fair. I do dig the squeezed middle telling those worse off to 'get a pension' or a better job like quality of life is a choice. Maybe the squeezed middle should go back to college or get a better job?

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Japers. 'Shinnernomics'? I think it's others have us where we are to be fair. I do dig the squeezed middle telling those worse off to 'get a pension' or a better job like quality of life is a choice. Maybe the squeezed middle should go back to college or get a better job?

god id go blue in the face quickly enough telling ppl that this never actually happened wouldnt i.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

god id go blue in the face quickly enough telling ppl that this never actually happened wouldnt i.

What never happened? People in some cases barely getting by unable to provide for their future?

never mind matt.

never mind.

The Blueshirts in Waterford are making the Shinners look like a cohesive, bullying-free zone where the greatest talents are nurtured.

I don't see our resident chief Blueshirt bot, in any of his nicks, setting up threads about that.

Irish Times: "This is well beyond typical inter-party, internecine rivalries"

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

never mind matt.

never mind.

Missed a quip did I? Ah sure...

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

The Blueshirts in Waterford are making the Shinners look like a cohesive, bullying-free zone where the greatest talents are nurtured.

I don't see our resident chief Blueshirt bot, in any of his nicks, setting up threads about that.

Irish Times: "This is well beyond typical inter-party, internecine rivalries"

If you wandered out of this thread, you might have seen that there is a thread on this already.

King of Kings

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Haven’t they become a bit sjw and socially liberal for their core vote

This is a lot of it.
Lot of my extended family would be longtime SF members. They feel mary lou has moved SF awy from its roots to a wannabe labour party.
Not to mention the hardline on abortion to snuff out dissent or member voice moral issues on the topic wasnt taken well by many members not to mention the treatmemt of tobin and his ilk.
The party just isnt the same anymore.

My own view is it seems to be a cult having listened to internal SF stories for years

James Brown

King of Kings wrote: »

This is a lot of it.
Lot of my extended family would be longtime SF members. They feel mary lou has moved SF awy from its roots to a wannabe labour party.
Not to mention the hardline on abortion to snuff out dissent or member voice moral issues on the topic wasnt taken well by many members not to mention the treatmemt of tobin and his ilk.
The party just isnt the same anymore.

My own view is it seems to be a cult having listened to internal SF stories for years

There's us and them elements in every party. I know a FG TD pretty well and I come from a FG strong area which has pockets of SF and Lab diehards.
I think these kind of voters are the real problem. They'll suffer incompetence from one of their own rather than give a nod to some good idea or action from a different team.
As I said it'll be interesting to see where things sit for SF after we use Brexit to excuse the next homegrown collapse of the economy, (not that Brexit won't bring it's own problems).

Spanish Eyes

SF did their damndest to woo the so called "middle class" vote. Nope, didn't work, never will.

They said they would not be averse to going into coalition. No one will have them now.

They appear to mirror a lot of what the PBP crowd are saying but with a whiff of cordite about it all.

Their so called core vote are no longer there, the war is over, the raison d'etre is gone.

SF I think is always looking over its shoulder at how things are going in NI, were never truly a party of the Republic except in anger at how things were in the North.

The GFA sorted a lot of that out.

Open borders and mass immigration is not a platform many support, so that's a black mark, even though they think it's great. It's the truth for me and many others too.

So, what have they got to offer now?

James Brown

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

SF did their damndest to woo the so called "middle class" vote. Nope, didn't work, never will.

They said they would not be averse to going into coalition. No one will have them now.

They appear to mirror a lot of what the PBP crowd are saying but with a whiff of cordite about it all.

Their so called core vote are no longer there, the war is over, the raison d'etre is gone.

SF I think is always looking over its shoulder at how things are going in NI, were never truly a party of the Republic except in anger at how things were in the North.

The GFA sorted a lot of that out.

Open borders and mass immigration is not a platform many support, so that's a black mark, even though they think it's great. It's the truth for me and many others too.

So, what have they got to offer now?

They offer the same as other parties claim, we can differ and criticise the plans to those ends. I wouldn't write them off.
And who was a key player in the GFA? You're not the first to cite the GFA as a problem for SF even though they campaigned for it.
I suppose they've nothing to offer if you think it's all lads in flat caps singing Wolfe Tones tunes. The war is over thanks in no small part to SF. I think it's a good thing and although there's no need to praise them I think it should in the least be acknowledged.
We get dismissive 'cordite' remarks and then hear how there's no alternative to FF/FG.

JohnnyFlash

I think that has a fair bit to do with it. The SF of Adams and McGuinness arose as the unashamedly political wing of the Provisional IRA. It campaigned for creating a 32 county socialist Republic, abstention as a policy, a deep hatred for the organs of the Irish State; and an unashamedly anti-EU (EEC/EC) stance.

They softened over time, but much of the appeal was having figureheads like Adams at the helm. Where everything he said sounded like a threat. He's an increasingly tragic figure these days, and will be allowed to spend his dotage unencumbered from having to face justice for the actions that caused so many to not see old age.

They really haven't managed the transition very well though. O'Neill has very little gravitas or substance about her. And the Southern wing of the party appears to be run by a small cohort of UCD History and Politics graduates. The 20 year plan appears to have come off the rails.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I think that has a fair bit to do with it. The SF of Adams and McGuinness arose as the unashamedly political wing of the Provisional IRA. It campaigned for creating a 32 county socialist Republic, abstention as a policy, a deep hatred for the organs of the Irish State; and an unashamedly anti-EU (EEC/EC) stance.

They softened over time, but much of the appeal was having figureheads like Adams at the helm. Where everything he said sounded like a threat. He's an increasingly tragic figure these days, and will be allowed to spend his dotage unencumbered from having to face justice for the actions that caused so many to not see old age.

They really haven't managed the transition very well though. O'Neill has very little gravitas or substance about her. And the Southern wing of the party appears to be run by a small cohort of UCD History and Politics graduates. The 20 year plan appears to have come off the rails.

It'll take time. I'm glad Adams is gone. I think it's a transitional period albeit a long drawn out one. I could see them as a junior partner at some stage likely with FF I'd imagine. The closer FF and FG become in the public eye, the next crash will have us looking for alternatives and neither FG nor FF will be untarnished waiting in the wings like FG were, so we'll likely see a rise for everyone else I'd imagine.

piplip87

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The war is over thanks in no small part to SF.

Comments like this is why SF will never lead a government in Ireland. The war might be over and yes SF played a vital part in ending it but Thier members played a vital part in the murder and violance that plaughed this island for 40 odd years to end up taking a deal that the could've got years earlier.

Remember SF still commerate those who planted bombs, murdered women and children. They may have played a part in ending it but that's quite easy when your the one planting bombs.

both perspectives are fair

but really, its in the post GFA environment that SF have struggled to find an offering of relevance.

the economic policies are .... unconvincing.....and if it's full nutter you want to go, then they are outflanked by the PBP/antis/independents

socially they are almost a bit protesteth overmuch. dictatorially right-on is a funny mix (though not rare, as this and any other message board shows).

if they have a raison d'etre that isnt just a lingering resentment from the old hands about the south abandoning them and wearing trotsky outfits to work from the newbies, id find it hard to name it

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

socially they are almost a bit protesteth overmuch. dictatorially right-on is a funny mix

You get the feeling they need to hammer this stuff home for some of their more unreconstructed supporters, whereas I doubt the Greens, say, would feel the need to lecture their 'base' about the evils of homophobia or whatever...

it will be interesting to see how many aontú will tear away from FG/SF

you don't see FF losing people on principles

JohnnyFlash

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It'll take time. I'm glad Adams is gone. I think it's a transitional period albeit a long drawn out one. I could see them as a junior partner at some stage likely with FF I'd imagine. The closer FF and FG become in the public eye, the next crash will have us looking for alternatives and neither FG nor FF will be untarnished waiting in the wings like FG were, so we'll likely see a rise for everyone else I'd imagine.

For a man who spends so much time posting about politics, you seem to have very little idea of what it means for Ireland. People have voted for FF or FG led governments since the foundation of this State less than 100 years ago. In that time we have gone from being an almost feudal society to one that the UN ranks as the 4th best country in the world in which to live. A country that has strong social welfare protection mechanisms, a sense of community, and an inherent decency in its people and politicians that is worth boasting about.

There's a reason people rejected the influence of socialism and fascism in the 30's and 40's, and a reason why people still trundle down to the ballot box to vote for the two major centrist parties in this country. It's because they know that we have done well, that problems seem to get fixed because we belong to a civilised and mature society, and that scandals tend to be found out and dealt with quickly in most cases.

The influence of the Labour Party cannot be understated in this either. They've been extremely effective coalition partners in many governments, and many of the things we take for granted these days are as a result of pragmatic socialists/social democrats having the gumption and principle to stand up and be accounted for by going into Government.

Gibbering auld nonsense about revolution and radical socialism belongs to malcontents and 1st year student societies. You live in a country that about 7 billion people would love to live in even the lowest tier of society in. And that's to be admired.

JohnnyFlash

Deleted User wrote: »

it will be interesting to see how many aontú will tear away from FG/SF

you don't see FF losing people on principles

FF have a bit of a problem at the moment whereby most of their strong core vote are being put into a coffin and buried.

James Brown

piplip87 wrote: »

Comments like this is why SF will never lead a government in Ireland. The war might be over and yes SF played a vital part in ending it but Thier members played a vital part in the murder and violance that plaughed this island for 40 odd years to end up taking a deal that the could've got years earlier.

Remember SF still commerate those who planted bombs, murdered women and children. They may have played a part in ending it but that's quite easy when your the one planting bombs.

So not comments like that.
What bombing campaign did Mary Lou look after, was it while Leo was goose stepping with the blue shirts?

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

For a man who spends so much time posting about politics, you seem to have very little idea of what it means for Ireland. People have voted for FF or FG led governments since the foundation of this State less than 100 years ago. In that time we have gone from being an almost feudal society to one that the UN ranks as the 4th best country in the world in which to live. A country that has strong social welfare protection mechanisms, a sense of community, and an inherent decency in its people and politicians that is worth boasting about.

There's a reason people rejected the influence of socialism and fascism in the 30's and 40's, and a reason why people still trundle down to the ballot box to vote for the two major centrist parties in this country. It's because they know that we have done well, that problems seem to get fixed because we belong to a civilised and mature society, and that scandals tend to be found out and dealt with quickly in most cases.

The influence of the Labour Party cannot be understated in this either. They've been extremely effective coalition partners in many governments, and many of the things we take for granted these days are as a result of pragmatic socialists/social democrats having the gumption and principle to stand up and be accounted for by going into Government.

Gibbering auld nonsense about revolution and radical socialism belongs to malcontents and 1st year student societies. You live in a country that about 7 billion people would love to live in even the lowest tier of society in. And that's to be admired.

What are you on about? What what means for Ireland?
We're talking about SF here and what's next. You left out the record breaking crises but yes people worse off elsewhere would like to be here, very astute.

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

it will be interesting to see how many aontú will tear away from FG/SF

you don't see FF losing people on principles

You'd need to have principles first.

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

it will be interesting to see how many aontú will tear away from FG/SF

you don't see FF losing people on principles

Looking at the numbers Renua managed to tear away from FG should give you some indication...

James Brown

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Looking at the numbers Renua managed to tear away from FG should give you some indication...

Better chance of getting ahead in a smaller party whereas FG HQ will side with a legacy like Bailey.