Greystones school - gender neutral uniforms to be introduced.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

briangriffin wrote: »

Your job is to raise your kids so that they can be as independent as possible as early as possible and go out into the world equipped to deal with both failure and success, they need to be resilient . As an adult you don't ignore your child you engage with them and you explain why they can't have what they want e.g. 2 happy meals on a Friday because you are the adult who loves the child and wants to see them thrive and fulfil their potential.
Kids say stupid things all the time they do stupid things because they are not small adults they are growing immature children you do them no favours by pandering to their every whim, you will not crush your child's spirit by corrected them and creating rules and boundaries for them.

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Yes! Every parent makes decisions irrespective of the wishes of their children. Have you ever met children? Are you aware of any of the stupid stuff they “decide” for themselves?

My children would be in Spider-Man/batman costumes/pyjamas/naked at school everyday if I were to listen to their every whim.

Jesus.

So the only way you can debate the point is take it to the ridiculous extreme? Had a feeling that would happen but gave you the benefit of the doubt. Silly me.

I'll try again: without talking about kids going to school naked or todders eating snails (because apparently the clarification DOES need to be made);
Do you think, either every parent make every decision on behalf of their child ireesepective of the child's wishes; or are they automatically "woke"?

weldoninhio

Brian? wrote: »

I didn't know garments had gender.

I assume you mean it's a garment females wear.

When your child asks: " Why do only girls wear skirts", what do you say?

I'd say it's a female garment, worn by females.

Go into a mans clothing store and you won't see any skirts or dresses on the rails.

Brian?

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'd say it's a female garment, worn by females.

Go into a mans clothing store and you won't see any skirts or dresses on the rails.

So you'll just remain belligerent about it and not give any real explanation?

weldoninhio

Brian? wrote: »

So you'll just remain belligerent about it and not give any real explanation?

That is the real explanation. Same as if there was a queue for the gents and none for the ladies, I'd explain that that is for females and this one is for males. Same when he asks why men can't have babies, same as when he asks about why men don't have boobs etc. Men and women are different.

It's not rocket science.

Sittingpretty

Brian? wrote: »

Listening and allowing are 2 different things. I would always listen and explain why something isn't allowed.

What reason would you give in not allowing a boy to wear a skirt?

The same I’d give for not wearing a Spider-Man costume to school, thankfully I don’t have to consider it as my sons have never expressed an interest in wearing skirts. And if they did I’d be very torn between allowing them express themselves and wanting to protect them from the bullying I know would ensue.

I don’t really have any dog in this fight, if a boy genuinely wants to wear a skirt to school then that’s between the school and his parents. I’m not entirely sure it should be in school uniform policy though. Children are very cruel and it’s naive in the extreme to think that a skirt wearing boy will not be teased mercifully. My son wore a non county jersey to training a few wears ago and the kids tore it off him. Kids are pricks and I can’t control what other kids do or their parents.

Brian?

weldoninhio wrote: »

That is the real explanation. Same as if there was a queue for the gents and none for the ladies, I'd explain that that is for females and this one is for males. Same when he asks why men can't have babies, same as when he asks about why men don't have boobs etc. Men and women are different.

It's not rocket science.

You think wearing a skirt is as inherently a female trait as having babies? That's a real beaut.

Don't ever let your son watch Braveheart. His mind will be blown.

Actually he won't have to deal with that too soon. Keep him away from "How to Train your Dragon" though. Lads in skirts all over the shop.

And don't dare bring him to mass. There are boys and men in dresses.

Sittingpretty

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So the only way you can debate the point is take it to the ridiculous extreme? Had a feeling that would happen but gave you the benefit of the doubt. Silly me.

I'll try again: without talking about kids going to school naked or todders eating snails (because apparently the clarification DOES need to be made);
Do you think, either every parent make every decision on behalf of their child ireesepective of the child's wishes; or are they automatically "woke"?

Ridiculous extreme? Children are walking ridiculous extremes.
You might have to educate me as to what “woke” means because apart from being the past participle of the verb wake I have no idea what you mean.

Brian?

Sittingpretty wrote: »

The same I’d give for not wearing a Spider-Man costume to school, thankfully I don’t have to consider it as my sons have never expressed an interest in wearing skirts. And if they did I’d be very torn between allowing them express themselves and wanting to protect them from the bullying I know would ensue.

I don’t really have any dog in this fight, if a boy genuinely wants to wear a skirt to school then that’s between the school and his parents. I’m not entirely sure it should be in school uniform policy though. Children are very cruel and it’s naive in the extreme to think that a skirt wearing boy will not be teased mercifully. My son wore a non county jersey to training a few wears ago and the kids tore it off him. Kids are pricks and I can’t control what other kids do or their parents.

Thanks, that's a reasonable and rational answer.

I do take real issue with the bullying answer though. I'd never tell my kids not to do something in case they'd be bullied. I teach them to stand up to bullies. Whether it's tried on them their friends. I wish more parents were the same.

I think the parents who set these arbitrary boundaries are creating the situation where kids are bullied for being different. They're taught at home that being different is not ok. So they Go to school and pick on people who are different.

Brian?

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Ridiculous extreme? Children are walking ridiculous extremes.
You might have to educate me as to what “woke” means because apart from being the past participle of the verb wake I have no idea what you mean.

Woke is a term usually applied to people who are extremely tolerant. It's now used as a pejorative to attack people who express tolerance for any number of things.

Male feminists and so on.

weldoninhio

Brian? wrote: »

You think wearing a skirt is as inherently a female trait as having babies? That's a real beaut.

Don't ever let your son watch Braveheart. His mind will be blown.

Actually he won't have to deal with that too soon. Keep him away from "How to Train your Dragon" though. Lads in skirts all over the shop.

And don't dare bring him to mass. There are boys and men in dresses.

Braveheart? So we are using the 13th century as an example of what to do nowadays?? Should we be hanging, drawing and quartering criminals too?? Bring back a life expectancy of 25??

What else from the 13th century should we bring back??

Sittingpretty

Brian? wrote: »

Thanks, that's a reasonable and rational answer.

I do take real issue with the bullying answer though. I'd never tell my kids not to do something in case they'd be bullied. I teach them to stand up to bullies. Whether it's tried on them their friends. I wish more parents were the same.

I think the parents who set these arbitrary boundaries are creating the situation where kids are bullied for being different. They're taught at home that being different is not ok. So they Go to school and pick on people who are different.

I’m very torn on your first point. It’s very hard to know what the right thing to do is. My son is very very timid and telling him to stand up to bullies in theory is great but in practice I know he wouldn’t.

My gut reaction was to tell him the following g week to wear the same jersey as the others just to avoid a repeat scenario but my husband was the opposite and told him to wear what he wants.

TLDR: Parenting is hard

Sittingpretty

Brian? wrote: »

Woke is a term usually applied to people who are extremely tolerant. It's now used as a pejorative to attack people who express tolerance for any number of things.

Male feminists and so on.

Thanks!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Ridiculous extreme? Children are walking ridiculous extremes.
You might have to educate me as to what “woke” means because apart from being the past participle of the verb wake I have no idea what you mean.

You'd have to take that up with briangriffin, but I believe he means the kids of parents who never taken any disciplinary action with regards to their kids. It's not really the true definition of "woke", but "woke" (aware to social injustice and constantly trying to fix them) doesn;t really make much sense.

My point is: there comes a point where kids CAN make form opinions and make decisions about their own lives. Should these kids be listened to? Should they be allowed autonomy in certain situations?

Teenagers, for example, choosing what subjects to study. Or ten-year-olds choosing what hobbies to pursue which may not be gender nominative (i.e. - girls wanting to play football, or boys doing ballet) is different from toddlers throwing tantrums.

But the point seems to be made that parents listening to their kids even here is "woke parenting".

I'm still waiting for a reply.

Triceratops Ballet

weldoninhio wrote: »

Braveheart? So we are using the 13th century as an example of what to do nowadays?? Should we be hanging, drawing and quartering criminals too?? Bring back a life expectancy of 25??

What else from the 13th century should we bring back??

Ok then don't take your kid out of the house when Scotland are playing Ireland, or cover their eyes any time you see an Arab man on the street. You don't have to go to the 13th century to see men in dresses.

"daddy why can girls wear trousers and dresses but boys can only wear trousers"

"well son girls can do what they want, but boys have to exist within these narrow margins that someone arbitrarily made up years and years ago. Wandering outside of these margins is wrong and means you're not a man"

Exaggeration yes of course, but that is the crux of it!

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Worrying about skirts is the least problematic part of the ideological trans movement. Men have worn skirts and robes and kilts and sarongs for centuries. Trousers be new.

weldoninhio

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Ok then don't take your kid out of the house when Scotland are playing Ireland, or cover their eyes any time you see an Arab man on the street. You don't have to go to the 13th century to see men in dresses.

"daddy why can girls wear trousers and dresses but boys can only wear trousers"

"well son girls can do what they want, but boys have to exist within these narrow margins that someone arbitrarily made up years and years ago. Wandering outside of these margins is wrong and means you're not a man"

Exaggeration yes of course, but that is the crux of it!

A kilt is a Gaelic traditional outfit. Even Scotty McScottScott doesn't wear a kilt every day.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

weldoninhio wrote: »

A kilt is a Gaelic traditional outfit. Even Scotty McScottScott doesn't wear a kilt every day.

Nor do women wear skirts every day - what's your point?

Sittingpretty

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You'd have to take that up with briangriffin, but I believe he means the kids of parents who never taken any disciplinary action with regards to their kids. It's not really the true definition of "woke", but "woke" (aware to social injustice and constantly trying to fix them) doesn;t really make much sense.

My point is: there comes a point where kids CAN make form opinions and make decisions about their own lives. Should these kids be listened to? Should they be allowed autonomy in certain situations?

Teenagers, for example, choosing what subjects to study. Or ten-year-olds choosing what hobbies to pursue which may not be gender nominative (i.e. - girls wanting to play football, or boys doing ballet) is different from toddlers throwing tantrums.

But the point seems to be made that parents listening to their kids even here is "woke parenting".

I'm still waiting for a reply.

From who? Me? Are you tapping your foot?

My point was I don’t give in to every whim but yes, of course I respect my children and their wishes even if sometimes I don’t agree with them.

The same son a few weeks ago wanted his nails painted. I did them for him and if I’m honest I was dreading him asking to keep it on for school, not because I care about what kids might say or parents might think but because I didn’t want to draw the attention of those kids that can be cruel and nasty. Most likely if he’d wanted to I’d have let him wear it and I’d have stressed all day long if he was ok. He asked for it to be taken off that evening though.

I can only speak for myself though.

weldoninhio

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Nor do women wear skirts every day - what's your point?

My mother wears skirts every day. Don't think she owns a pair of trousers. As do plenty of other women. There is literally no one that wears a kilt on a daily basis.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

weldoninhio wrote: »

My mother wears skirts every day. Don't think she owns a pair of trousers. As do plenty of other women. There is literally no one that wears a kilt on a daily basis.

This is my point: people make a the choice.

weldoninhio

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is my point: people make a the choice.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A skirt is a female garment.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sittingpretty wrote: »

From who? Me? Are you tapping your foot?

My point was I don’t give in to every whim but yes, of course I respect my children and their wishes even if sometimes I don’t agree with them.

The same son a few weeks ago wanted his nails painted. I did them for him and if I’m honest I was dreading him asking to keep it on for school, not because I care about what kids might say or parents might think but because I didn’t want to draw the attention of those kids that can be cruel and nasty. Most likely if he’d wanted to I’d have let him wear it and I’d have stressed all day long if he was ok. He asked for it to be taken off that evening though.

I can only speak for myself though.

Which is fair enough. It's how kids learn. But the initial poster didn't seem to think that was wise.

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A skirt is a female garment.

why do you care so much what kids wear?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

weldoninhio wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A skirt is a female garment.

I know. Doesn't contradict anything I've said.

Triceratops Ballet

weldoninhio wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. A skirt is a female garment.

Garments don't have a gender. A skirt is a skirt it has no inherent meaning. It's a piece of fabric. Any meaning ascribed to it is your own, and it can be changed as it has been and no doubt will be again.

Boxing.Fan

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Garments don't have a gender. A skirt is a skirt it has no inherent meaning. It's a piece of fabric. Any meaning ascribed to it is your own, and it can be changed as it has been and no doubt will be again.

What the hell are you on about? Skirts are for females. You ever see the way they always have them in the womens section in clothing departments ? There is a reason for that.

Triceratops Ballet

Boxing.Fan wrote: »

What the hell are you on about? Skirts are for females. You ever see the way they always have them in the womens section in clothing departments ? There is a reason for that.

Skirts are for whoever whats to wear them. They can be wherever a shop decides to put them. I often buy hoodies from the mens department, I'm not a man, where clothes are stored is irrelevant.
Masculinity shouldn't be so fragile that a length of fabric is the determining factor.

Boxing.Fan

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Skirts are for whoever whats to wear them. They can be wherever a shop decides to put them. I often buy hoodies from the mens department, I'm not a man, where clothes are stored is irrelevant.
Masculinity shouldn't be so fragile that a length of fabric is the determining factor.

And I'm sure you have plenty of room in that hoody. Womens clothes are designed for women surely you can acknowledge that much?

Brian?

weldoninhio wrote: »

Braveheart? So we are using the 13th century as an example of what to do nowadays?? Should we be hanging, drawing and quartering criminals too?? Bring back a life expectancy of 25??

What else from the 13th century should we bring back??

You know there are plenty of 21st century Scots who wear kilts right?

Brian?

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I’m very torn on your first point. It’s very hard to know what the right thing to do is. My son is very very timid and telling him to stand up to bullies in theory is great but in practice I know he wouldn’t.

My gut reaction was to tell him the following g week to wear the same jersey as the others just to avoid a repeat scenario but my husband was the opposite and told him to wear what he wants.

TLDR: Parenting is hard

It's a minefield.

But I worry about the effects of being overprotective in case they're bullied. That's a sure way of raising a child who can't handle adversity IMO