Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

There's inevitably a lot of comparison with Venables and Thomson happening and one thing I wonder about is whether, Ireland's youth detention system being so much smaller than the UK's they will be able to remain in any sort of contact with each other. The two Bulger killers were kept apart, and I think it would be very unfortunate if that couldn't be guaranteed here. But I suspect it can't be.

AudreyHepburn wrote:

You’re assuming the families were in on it but there is absolutely nothing to suggest that is the case.

I’ll say it again - let go of the emotion and desire for revenge for a moment and think clearly.

Would you expect to be punished for your children’s wrong doing? Of course not nor should you.

To be honest, because technology has leaped forward in recent history, i think there is now a case to hold accountable any parent for, 'Willful neglect of children', for not controlling their access to media, Neglect can be categorised as child abuse,

https://www.tusla.ie/services/child-protection-welfare/definitions-of-child-abuse/

Why hold these parents accountable?

Well certainly it has been revealed about Boy A's free access to anything on the internet, my opinion (Which wont be swayed by the way) is that free access to anyone under 16 to the internet via a 'smartphone' (cool name attached to them to make them sought after and a must have commodity) that is permitted by parents is Neglect, the parents most definitely have something to answer for here.

Control of internet access in home and possession of mini handheld computers needs to be seriously tackled, starting with the parents of the children.

If i allow my 13 year old to go out freely and drink/take drugs, do you think i should be prosecuted?

I have been following this thread for a few days and although I have not read every post, I want to make a couple of points as I know some of the details of the background. I will not put the case at risk, I do not know the names or have any information on the boys or the family and I take my cue from the local community who have done a sterling job in waiting for the case to be tried and not risking it in anyway. I am torn about the confidentiality aspect, because I believe it follows the rehabilitation model of justice and I am not sure that some can be rehabilitated.

I mention the information as some think there may be non national element to it (there wasn't, they were good Irish boys!), that there is mental illness, that there is coercion by one on the other or any nonsense that the jury got this wrong. They did not.

1. Boy A & B were bullies at the local school, I know this as they bullied a child of a friend of mine constantly before the murder, so it could have been someone I know and love in the grave, instead of poor Ana. These boys worked as a bullying team, one is not more innocent than the other.

2. There are no learning issues, the school did not consider them to be problems in anyway whatsoever. There is no mental illness, there are no special ed needs, this is who they are.

3. Anyone that was their target was isolated by the others, including the child I know. It is not pleasant but it seems it was the only viable solution for the other kids.

My worry now is my friend's child and the long term effects, like survivors guilt.

In regards to the principal and counsellor at the local school they should be sacked, there is alot of negligence there, I would love to see some litigation or an inquiry on that.

If they are both mentally ill it's a folie a deux, if not it is joint enterprise, you cannot deliver someone to their death and claim innocence.

The Gardai did an amazing job in talking to the kids and handling the case.

The only mystery is the unknown DNA on Ana's body, but don't worry he'll strike again.

Hal3000 wrote: »

Totally agree here. To a degree parents must be responsible for any child's access to the internet. Giving a child unfettered access to the internet is irresponsible. Also we need to look at limiting access to Whatsapp for u18. We are really going to cause damage to our youths if we allow them to keep viewing violent and extreme content. Im sure in years we will look back on this and think WTF we're we thinking.

I agree with this absolutely - it just sounds like between pointing fingers at the boys parents, the school and Ana’s peers people are scapegoating or trying to absolve the boys of some or all of the blame.

A and B alone are to blame for their actions that day.

pjohnson wrote: »

Well when the "justice" is more concerned about protecting murderers what do you expect the public have a right to know.

Of course we do, I have never once said otherwise.

But leaving revealing their identities in the hands of emotionally charged mobs (online or real world) solely out for revenge is dangerous.

Let be done properly by the authorities.

NeonWolf wrote: »

I don't really care for their respective ages , more for the severity of the crime/indiscretion of both parties.

Two murderers have been protected from further abuse and scrutiny while a group of acquitted innocent men have had their livelihoods and reputations destroyed.

My personal belief is that all parties in a trial should be kept anonymous until such time as verdict is reached. If and only if the accused are found guilty then right to anonymity should be rendered null and void. The victim/accuser should be given the choice.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I agree with this absolutely - it just sounds like between pointing fingers at the boys parents, the school and Ana’s peers people are scapegoating or trying to absolve the boys of some or all of the blame.

A and B alone are to blame for their actions that day.

I agree with you 100% A and B killed her and they alone are accountable. I am not saying the parents should be more vigilant but hindsight and all that. All this vigilante mob to just get a piece of skin is dangerous. We already have wrong people been mentioned in places.

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Jail them for life.

Prosecute parents for Neglect.

Change laws to encompass control of media and access to media by minors.

A “control of media” law?

There should be restrictions, sure, but I’d be careful how far you want this control to go

dickangel wrote: »

You just said if he admitted being at the scene his defence would be null and void....he can still not admit it and implicate Boy B.

Why do you think he didn't try to drop Boy B in it despite knowing he'd been thrown under the bus?

Exactly and that's the tie. He used the defence that he wasnt there and that has failed.

It is clear that both he and Boy B were there from the evidence and Boy B's own testimony.

You said

dickangel wrote:

Boy A was read the transcripts of Boy B's interviews and his only response was that Boy B was lying. Interestingly he didn't attempt to put blame on Boy B despite knowing he'd been thrown under the bus

Why did Boy A not implicate Boy B?
Boy A's defence that he wasnt there was never going to stand up in court in light of the forensics

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course we do, I have never once said otherwise.

But leaving revealing their identities in the hands of emotionally charged mobs (online or real world) solely out for revenge is dangerous.

Let be done properly by the authorities.

But the authorities will do nothing.

TheAsYLuMkeY wrote: »

Jail them for life.

Prosecute parents for Neglect.

Change laws to encompass control of media and access to media by minors.

1) 100% agree

2) what will this achieve

3) very hard to do with VPNs etc would love it

Why the frenzy to know their names and faces ? The are going nowhere for years yet and after that, Ireland is such a small country, it will just become public knowledge anyway.

As a parent of two similar aged girls, it is shocking how bullying is allowed and a blind eye turned to it by schools. A lot is to do with the parents and who they are perceived to be in society and there little angle could not be a bully.
So sad that this poor girl was given such a horrendous death and her family have to live this nightmare and people coming on here trying to defend murder.
The jury has not be given the credit they deserve for what they had to sit through day in day out and their lives have to have changed over this case and will never be the same people again. They are the people who heard the true details of the this horrific crime and made a correct verdict, not the people typing here, the Gardai in this case have restored my view and also have to be effected by what was seen and done in this case and have my respect for how the case was conducted from day one,
And Anna family have to live this everyday for the rest of their lives and have received a worse sentence that these two scum bags will ever receive. So thing about that before trying to justify boy B actions and guilt.

pjohnson wrote: »

But the authorities will do nothing.

No excuse for lawless vigilante action and acting like an unruly mob - anger and revenge fantasies won’t help anyone.