Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

jmayo

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

Are you saying that because he was let out for a weekend 19 years earlier, he murdered someone else?

Where had he been during the intervening 19 years?

Acquaint yourself with some of our horror avoidable murders to see how bad our justice and criminal system is.

17 year old Murray called round to visit William Mannion an elderly neighbour one sunday night in 1982 and killed him.
He was found guilty of that crime and given life.
He told Gardai he did to see what it felt like.

He was on temporary release programme in 1995 and 1996 in Galway, but was found to be making lewd gestures towards young girls.
Gardai, locals and Governor of Castlerea Prison feared that he would kill again.

In 1998 he was convicted of indecent exposure in Galway while on temporary release.
In 2001 while on temporary day release at home he visited an ex teacher 80 year old Mrs Nancy Nolan.
She was one of the few people who would talk to him.
He killed her and quite happily went back to prison that night.
He was found guilty and given another life sentence.

That is the type of sack of shyte that was allowed out on release even though enough people had said no.

Hurrache wrote: »

So you want people to not have a trial?

No, I don't want legal professionals having the gall to stand there and tell us that their lying sack of shyte clients are deserving of empathy, freedom and us to believe their lies.

McCrack wrote: »

Well you see there is a thing in the Constitution (art 38.1)

In fact to save my fingers have a read of this:

http://brophysolicitors.ie/pre-trial-rights/

Basically in a trial there are two sides - prosecution and defence - DPP is represented by lawyers and the defence represented by lawyers and the jury listen to everything and decide the defendant's guilt or innocence - everybody from the great and terrible are entitled to legal representation - and if you don't like that perhaps move to North Korea or somewhere

Yeah yeah we all know about the rights of the scummy criminals.

If only people give as much concern for the rights of the victims. :rolleyes:

Priscilla Mushy Banner wrote: »

One of those boys, Robert Thompson, has gone on to lead a blameless life. The other has repeatedly come to the attention of the police. So it seems that it can be possible to rehabilitate child killers, but that it's not always the case.

Which one is supposed to live in Kilkenny ?

Small Wonder

sbsquarepants wrote: »

II would disown any off them in a heartbeat if they done something like this.

I'd like to think I would as well.

My point was more that that specific parent may have believed his son. The fact that there was no other evidence other than the boy's own words. I can imagine a parent hanging everything on that and hoping to god that he's telling the truth. Wanting it to be the truth.

But like I said, I've no kids so I'm just thinking out loud.

It's a horrible situation all round, for the deceased and her family first and foremost, but also for everyone else that's been dragged into this.

Someone in my immediate family was tried and convicted of a sexual offence. I was young at the time and grew up being told it wasn't true, and believing it wasn't true. Again, wanting to believe. I can still remember the day when I forced myself to put two and two together. It's a terrible realisation.

Amalgam

The White Wolf wrote: »

It was a ramble about this is where misogyny and capitalism have gotten us. Someone might have captured it better but I just looked at it and felt sad that someone would comandeer a tragedy in this way.

Ruth Coppinger TD
@RuthCoppingerTD

Words of a friend says it all :“The sadness & rage I feel for Ana Kriegel knows no bounds, this is what perpetuation of misogyny & backward ideas by capitalism results in & why we've to challenge sexist ideas... I hope her family get some peace now” #dubw
7:04 AM 0 18 June 2019

See attached.

MrFresh

Boy B stated in an interview that a month before the murder Boy A had suggested they murder Ana. He said he thought it was a joke but then he brought her to an abandoned, secluded location. He pretty much convicted himself.

skooterblue2

Berserker wrote: »

Where will these lads serve their sentence? The joy is an adult only prison isn't it?

I think there is a facility in Wales that the Department of Justice has contacts with the Home Office. I know of a guy who was sent there for far less serious crime. These are really bad to the bone guys. I dont believe they can be rehabilitated.

LirW

InTheShadows wrote: »

Hopefully the sentence is long and harsh.

Just reading about how she was treated leading up to her murder by fellow students in her school. I hope each and every one of them are ashamed as well as their parents. Disgusting knuckle dragging oinks.

I really don't want to hear this "Bullying toughens you" cr4p anymore. Clearly that didn't end too well for poor Ana.

Hal3000

Priscilla Mushy Banner wrote: »

Where did I say I have 'no sympathy for the victim or the family?

What a nasty thing to imply.

Slanderous? How exactly? Ive argued tooth and nail on this forum for victim recognition over perpetrator defending. Sorry if you feel slandered on an mainly anonymous forum not my intention, but I felt her family deserved more words of support at this time.

suicide_circus

Rest in peace, Ana.

If anything good can come of this hopefully there is a public outcry against our ridiculous sentencing in this country when they try and release these lads in a few years

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

yes lets not lose sight of the ~real~ victims here eh

Of course not but its ok to fell sorry for all the families involved it doesn't change the terrible crime that happened

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Hal3000 wrote: »

Slanderous? How exactly? Ive argued tooth and nail on this forum for victim recognition over perpetrator defending. Sorry if you feel slandered on an mainly anonymous forum not my intention, but I felt her family deserved more words of support at this time.

I took the word slander out of my post.

But you definitely accused me of something I never said or implied. That is pretty nasty behaviour as well as downright untrue. I have no idea why you would do that.

Gimme A Pound

ZilkyG wrote: »

Yup, it was deleted. I managed to get a screenshot of it before it was though. Jesus she really is a callous piece of ****

Utterly sociopathic. And of course tweets of support from her vile pals. I may get animated over misogyny but I still ****ing despise those kinds of feminists (and more interested in pushing an agenda than keeping quiet out of respect for Ana? How "sisterly"). Nice save.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

LirW wrote: »

This trial was harrowing, it got worse by the day.
I can't wrap my head around how a child desires to do something so horrible.

I'm glad they've been found guilty and that they get what they deserve.

I know, I really wanted to believe Boy B's version because it was just more comprehensible than the alternative.

I live near a school and I see groups of boys 12, 13, 14 and they look like babies. Some of them are more mature or less innocent than others and you see bullying or stuff but trying to comprehend how the two of them were gone so wrong by that age is head melting. Not to just to think this up but to actually go through with it. So many points where they could have stopped.

I'd assume from her photos Ana would have been able to put up a reasonably good fight against a boy her age, though maybe Boy A was very physically developed. The force, and force of will that the murder required...what the fcuk, how does a child have that in them?

Boy B was arrogant and out of his depth, I'd say he was a young lad used to successfully manipulating his peers and adults and overestimated himself. But it's scary to think how he'd do if he'd not come the gards' attention until a few years later.

Nerdlingr

Jaysus, just reading about the evidence that the prosecution wasnt allowed to present to the jury - thousands of porn images found on two of Boy A's phones. 13 years old. F*cking hell.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

suicide_circus wrote: »

Rest in peace, Ana.

If anything good can come of this hopefully there is a public outcry against our ridiculous sentencing in this country when they try and release these lads in a few years

Hopefully it might also open up proper discussion in homes and schools about the dangers of standing by and doing and saying nothing while someone is being horrifically bullied and excluded - or, of course, of joining in as did the groups who walked away anytime Ana tried to join them. They probably didn't see that as bullying, but of course it was.

InTheShadows

LirW wrote: »

I really don't want to hear this "Bullying toughens you" cr4p anymore. Clearly that didn't end too well for poor Ana.

Exactly. Bullying destroys lives. As far as I'm concerned each and every student who made this beautiful girls life hell is partly responsible for how her life ended.

antodeco

Tomw86 wrote: »

No, I can't imagine what that is like. But I am rational enough that after hearing the evidence, and being convinced they were guilty, I would make sure they took their punishment in the right way - pleading guilty.

I need to ask this question, but do you have any children? Im just trying to figure out are those saying the parents should have handed them up, have kids themselves, or not.

For me, the thoughts of willingly handing up my child, doesnt cross my mind, unless, he had a history of poor behaviour. If Boy A/B has had multiple issues, etc, then I can understood the thought process towards wanting them handed in. But, if this was a once off (and apologies, it may detail this in the case, but I cant read it) then its harder for a parent to go "Off you go Son. Away to prison."

.......

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Jaysus, just reading about the evidence that the prosecution wasnt allowed to present to the jury - thousands of porn images found on two of Boy A's phones. 13 years old. F*cking hell.

If they were "normal" porn images (ie, not images of criminal acts) then I would imagine that most young lads have plenty of them on their phones.

razorblunt

Berties_Horse wrote: »

Ruth "crash of metal" Coppinger is back with a slightly different tact:

"I hope Ana's parents can find some peace after the verdict. While nothing takes from their guilt, the lesson must be there needs to be a challenge to sexism and misogyny. We see women subjected to abuse and violence which is bred and perpetuated by the system we live under."

Was capitalism behind the murder Ruth?

Ruth NoCopOninger

Franko.

Gunnerpop wrote: »

I don't know what you mean. What outburst? r

PM if sensitive.

Its reported on the Irish times website.

callaway92

Christ, man. . .

The father of Boy B, obviously agitated, spoke loudly on the other side of the room. “Bunch of scumbags here,” he shouted, after Mr Justice Paul McDermott had left, having ruled that the 14-year-old boys be remanded in custody to Oberstown detention centre, to be returned to court on July 15th next.

Boy B was standing, hugging his mother who was hugging him in return. The father, clearly agitated, was standing behind his son. He leaned in and embraced them both.

“Innocent kid in f***ing prison,” he said loudly. “Are you proud of your victory?”

Radio Radio

It was a major mistake to close St Patrick's institution, Oberstown house is a holiday camp.

Amalgam

The lack of empathy didn't just stop with the accused. The AGS visited one of the families to give them advice on what to say publicly. There was a risk of umm, disturbances locally, just after the murder.

TheValeyard

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Jaysus, just reading about the evidence that the prosecution wasnt allowed to present to the jury - thousands of porn images found on two of Boy A's phones. 13 years old. F*cking hell.

Unbelievably common unfortunately.

.......

....... wrote: »

If they were "normal" porn images (ie, not images of criminal acts) then I would imagine that most young lads have plenty of them on their phones.

Thousands of images in the day of always on internet and streaming? There is a chance I'm very out of touch though.

sabat

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Jaysus, just reading about the evidence that the prosecution wasnt allowed to present to the jury - thousands of porn images found on two of Boy A's phones. 13 years old. F*cking hell.

Without it even being presented in evidence, it was obvious from the reported proceedings that this horror was influenced by things they had seen on the internet.

Franko.

Radio Radio wrote: »

It was a major mistake to close St Patrick's institution, Oberstown house is a holiday camp.

But Pat's was the opposite end of the spectrum. A violent lawless place by all accounts. I believe it was forced to close because of this.

NoviGlitzko

The two of them were so obviously guilty so it's a very welcome verdict. What really annoys me is the parents defending these scumbags in court. We have some truly rotten people in this country.

LLMMLL

Gunnerpop wrote: »

I have followed this case since day one.

I remember, 2 June 2018, after the first boy had been charged, I drove up to west Dublin to see Glenwood House. I hopped the wall and walked around. I remember looking around the back and walking up to the bricked-up back door. I looked up at this 200 year-old building and all that had come and gone there over the years, and one 14 year-old girl walked into it a few weeks before thinking she was meeting her crush. But instead, he had devised a plan to kill her there and brought his gullible friend into the equasion.

As I walked back down towards the road, I looked at the house, it's thirteen sad windows bricked up, and thought "Jesus, what a waste of a beautiful young life".

Here is the house in better times:

buildingsofireland.ie/niah/images/survey_specific/fullsize/11360006_1.jpg

What a creepy ghoulish thing to do.

amcalester

Berties_Horse wrote: »

Ruth "crash of metal" Coppinger is back with a slightly different tact:

"I hope Ana's parents can find some peace after the verdict. While nothing takes from their guilt, the lesson must be there needs to be a challenge to sexism and misogyny. We see women subjected to abuse and violence which is bred and perpetuated by the system we live under."

Was capitalism behind the murder Ruth?

Coppinger's tweet implies that Ana's parents were the ones found guilty.

Small Wonder

Deleted User wrote: »

Thousands of images in the day of always on internet and streaming? There is a chance I'm very out of touch though.

They were possibly sent on WhatsApp, or something similar, which automatically saves the images to the photo album in the phone.