If the Green Party got into government are they mad

average_runner

Berserker wrote: »

I get that but the future of the planet trumps that in the mind of the Irish electorate, at this moment in time. I think the Irish electorate may well have a change of heart on the matter when the true cost of supporting these measures becomes apparent but water chargers, carbon taxes etc are a-ok, as of now. That what they said when they voted in the last set of elections.

Taxes aren't the way to tackle everything, in fact it will have the reverse effect. There is alot out there still on the breadline, so by taxing them more is not going to make them go green, instead it will slow them down.


The government should not increase the fuel tax etc, instead say by 2023 we are giving you a chance to go green on the car side, after that hit the heavy taxes on the cars.


Instead with hit the taxes now, so people have to pay it but can't afford to go green!!


Give the people a chance, alot can't even afford a house right now

Berserker

average_runner wrote: »

Because they are expensive and not everyone can afford to buy a new car.
And we also don't know the health concerns in relation to the batteries in the car?

Quick question, how long does a battery last for and how bad is it for the environment when you get a new battery?

Are you talking about how long they last before they need to get recharged or before they need to be replaced? Most companies are offering an 8-year/100,000-mile warranties for their batteries.

average_runner wrote: »

Give the people a chance, alot can't even afford a house right now

Affording a house is beyond a good chunk of people and that number is only going to get worse, unfortunately. I've posted about ex-reports of mine before, single people earning €40K-€50K who'll never be in a position to buy. I'm baffled by the pro-Green vote last time round but they've (G.P.) been very clear about their desire to get people to pay these taxes.

average_runner

Berserker wrote: »

Are you talking about how long they last before they need to get recharged or before they need to be replaced? Most companies are offering an 8-year/100,000-mile warranties for their batteries.

How long before they are replaced. And how do the companies produce and get rid of them in a green way?

Berserker

average_runner wrote: »

How long before they are replaced. And how do the companies produce and get rid of them in a green way?

8-10 years, with warranties offered at the lower end of that scale. As for the disposal, see below.

https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/840/how-recyclable-are-batteries-electric-cars

average_runner

Berserker wrote: »

8-10 years, with warranties offered at the lower end of that scale. As for the disposal, see below.

https://www.drivingelectric.com/your-questions-answered/840/how-recyclable-are-batteries-electric-cars

Cool, thanks for that. Alot of plans but nothing concrete.

This is worrying though
"Cobalt production is a critical issue for battery production and the future of electric mobility. Much of it is currently mined in the Democratic Republic of Congo, where the process raises serious ecological, ethical and human rights concerns, so reducing dependency on it as demand for batteries rise is one of the greatest challenges. "

facehugger99

maccored wrote: »

the real answer is instead, for example, or spending 10 million on Trumps visit, putting that money into building a proper public transport system country wide - THEN introduce a carbon tax

Yeah - that €10 million should provide a great country-wide public transport system.

Mancomb Seepgood

average_runner wrote: »

How long before they are replaced. And how do the companies produce and get rid of them in a green way?

It's not really an issue as such. I had a Nissan Leaf for 3 years and after over 70000 km I noticed no decrease in range.And most electric vehicles now have more sophisticated cooling systems for batteries which increase their lifespan.

There is no reason why EV batteries can't be used for other purposes after a significant drop in capacity - home battery or grid storage,for example.

Shefwedfan

average_runner wrote: »

Taxes aren't the way to tackle everything, in fact it will have the reverse effect. There is alot out there still on the breadline, so by taxing them more is not going to make them go green, instead it will slow them down.


The government should not increase the fuel tax etc, instead say by 2023 we are giving you a chance to go green on the car side, after that hit the heavy taxes on the cars.

Instead with hit the taxes now, so people have to pay it but can't afford to go green!!

Give the people a chance, alot can't even afford a house right now

Since 2011/12 the government has provided incentives to buy electric cars. They have provided free charging for electric cars.

Is it 1 or 2 years they have given money off tolls. For a company car it is 0% BIK.

All of this is available and the impact of electric cars is minimal when you compare to other countries in Europe.

What exactly is going to change that people now are suddenly going to swap from diesel to electric? everyone is aware of the 2020 date which the government signed up to, that was told to everyone how many years ago?

Shefwedfan

maccored wrote: »

the question I have about the carbon tax is where are my alternatives? I drive 40 miles to work every day and there are no public or private tranport alternatives - certainly none that would get me to work on time. Making my fuel more expensive wont stop me still having to drive to work - it will just mean I have less money. How is that going to entice me to reduce driving, when I still have to drive regardless as there's no alternative.

Its very easy for those living in an urban area that has suitable public transport to believe we can have carbon taxes. the real answer is instead, for example, or spending 10 million on Trumps visit, putting that money into building a proper public transport system country wide - THEN introduce a carbon tax

You do realize how many jobs are in Ireland because of American companies?

Trump got into power by promising to bring jobs back. 10 million is tiny if you compare what would happen if a Intel or HP or IBM pulled out of Ireland. Each of those companies have how many employees?



Last thing Ireland needs is pi**ing off the American's, love him or hate him but Trump is the president of America

Turbohymac

Again in theory yes the government are correct to try to reduce cow emissions.. but it has been decided that heavy trucks etc will not be able to use battery power EV.. only small passenger vehicles and even if all our power requirements were being generated by wind etc . The electric cars are still Extremely limited to range..cannot be fitted with hitches.. no towing of light trailers caravans etc...GROSSLY overpriced to even tempt the greenest of people to make the change currently and sacrifice a lot more than emissions by purchasing an EV car..
Very small Hyundai electric car is starting off at 39k euros.. you'd have a lot of change left over if you were to buy a much larger and better specced..well capable of towing etc fossil fuelled vehicle..
Currently only a tiny selection of electric vehicles available from only 3 or 4 manufacturers..
And not a single thought about public transport..larger cars Van's etc etc etc..

But sure well all be grand cos well ban sale of fossil fuel vehicles by 2030.. and sure well all be grand driving around in leafs.and hyundai's..

Typical of our craggy island government promise to stick the locomotive into reverse from her current full speed ahead mode..and a few small not fit for many users purpose.. electric cars can replace everything..

Good luck with the dream

GreeBo

Nobelium wrote: »

So what is the actual percentage , is even 49/50 at best not a fraction ? and not a minority ? Tell the truth.

49% renewable would be a majority.
The rest would be gas, coal, oil, peat & wood.

average_runner

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Since 2011/12 the government has provided incentives to buy electric cars. They have provided free charging for electric cars.

Is it 1 or 2 years they have given money off tolls. For a company car it is 0% BIK.

All of this is available and the impact of electric cars is minimal when you compare to other countries in Europe.

What exactly is going to change that people now are suddenly going to swap from diesel to electric? everyone is aware of the 2020 date which the government signed up to, that was told to everyone how many years ago?

"electric cars is minimal when you compare to other countries in Europe."


And why is this? Is it because we are already taxed to the hilt so can't afford new electric cars?


Or is it because they are cheaper in Europe?


Or is it because Europe has a way better transport system so less reliance on cars?


At the end of day we can talk about 2020, but if the people can't afford we will go back to the ways we did in the 80's with everyone having old cars!!!

GreeBo

blanch152 wrote: »

None of those are facts, they are opinions.

In relation to the first one, improvements in battery storage for home generation will change the equation.

doesnt even need to be stored at home, if the ESB stores the renewable energy (like Turlough Hill) then we all benefit from it.

Berserker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Trump got into power by promising to bring jobs back. 10 million is tiny if you compare what would happen if a Intel or HP or IBM pulled out of Ireland. Each of those companies have how many employees?

Last thing Ireland needs is pi**ing off the American's, love him or hate him but Trump is the president of America

Or pharma companies, if the NHS is brought into a trade deal between the UK and US, post Brexit. That €10m is pennies when you look at the bigger picture.

From the CSO : The largest category of exports was Medical and pharmaceutical products. Exports of these goods accounted for a third (33%) of all exports, or €46,318 million in 2018.

Macha

skooterblue2 wrote: »

https://fxssi.com/top-10-most-valuable-companies-in-the-world

Not an oil company between them.

Let's try a metric that goes beyond the inflated share price of tech companies, ie actual revenue:

http://fortune.com/global500/

5 of the top 10 companies are oil companies: Sinopec, CNP, Shell, BP and Exxonmobil.

Turbohymac wrote: »

Again in theory yes the government are correct to try to reduce cow emissions.. but it has been decided that heavy trucks etc will not be able to use battery power EV.. only small passenger vehicles and even if all our power requirements were being generated by wind etc . The electric cars are still Extremely limited to range..cannot be fitted with hitches.. no towing of light trailers caravans etc...GROSSLY overpriced to even tempt the greenest of people to make the change currently and sacrifice a lot more than emissions by purchasing an EV car..
Very small Hyundai electric car is starting off at 39k euros.. you'd have a lot of change left over if you were to buy a much larger and better specced..well capable of towing etc fossil fuelled vehicle..
Currently only a tiny selection of electric vehicles available from only 3 or 4 manufacturers..
And not a single thought about public transport..larger cars Van's etc etc etc..

But sure well all be grand cos well ban sale of fossil fuel vehicles by 2030.. and sure well all be grand driving around in leafs.and hyundai's..

Typical of our craggy island government promise to stick the locomotive into reverse from her current full speed ahead mode..and a few small not fit for many users purpose.. electric cars can replace everything..

Good luck with the dream

I don't even know where to start with this post...So many errors and myths.

GreeBo wrote: »

49% renewable would be a majority.
The rest would be gas, coal, oil, peat & wood.

Actually today Richard Bruton is expected to pump up that target to 70% renewables in our electricity mix by 2030.

In Ireland's case, most of the rest will be gas and some (hopefully) sustainable wood. Moneypoint will be shut down by 2025 as will BnaM's peat plants. There's hardly any oil left in Ireland's power system.

LeinsterDub

average_runner wrote: »

Explain that to the companies in the city centre and see what happens.

You don't tell people to get across a danger river without providing a way of getting across it.

What about that bridge? Eh no it's too high
What about that ferry? Eh no it's too slow
What about that hovercraft ? Eh no it's too noisy
What about that zip wire ? Eh no it's too much fun
What about that foot tunnel. Eh no it's too deep


70% of people in the city centre already get there by Bus , Train , Tram, Bike or foot.

LeinsterDub

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

While I greatly appreciate your kind attempt to carry out my thinking processes for me, I reckon that I'm probably marginally better at doing it than you are, if the above example is anything to go by.

So many thanks for now and rest assured that I'll definitely be in touch should I feel the need to call upon your helpful service again.

An chance you could use your now legendary ability to think and tell us what option you have available to you?

maccored

Berserker wrote: »

Why don't you buy a hybrid or an electric car? That should reduce your carbon tax costs for your commute. Also, ten million is buttons in the context of these infrastructure projects. The consultancy firms would hoover that up in a month.

how about because I havent got 40 grand?

average_runner

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What about that bridge? Eh no it's too high
What about that ferry? Eh no it's too slow
What about that hovercraft ? Eh no it's too noisy
What about that zip wire ? Eh no it's too much fun
What about that foot tunnel. Eh no it's too deep


70% of people in the city centre already get there by Bus , Train , Tram, Bike or foot.

Have you got a link for that stat? Be good to have

demfad

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Youre right lets force China and America and india to change by not buying their clothes, cars and electrical goods and medicines.

"Maritime shipping transports 90 percent of the goods traded around the world by volume. Moving large amounts of goods such as oil, computers, blue jeans and wheat across oceans drives the global economy, making it cheaper and easier to buy almost anything.


But hauling goods around by sea requires roughly 300 million tons of very dirty fuel, producing nearly 3 percent of the world's carbon dioxide emissions, giving the international maritime shipping industry roughly the same carbon footprint as Germany."

It will happen-possibilities include:

-Massive levy on this dirty fuel
-Goods available at home will be prohibited from being bought from far away places.
-Eventual technological solutions but relatively very costly.

The result will be goods will be manufactured closer to where they are consumed. Manufacturing will be 'regional' or 'local' not globalized.

(Obviously the dirty fuel ship WTO 'Global' Britain should stay in port.


https://phys.org/news/2018-12-cargo-ships-emitting-boatloads-carbon.html

maccored

facehugger99 wrote: »

Yeah - that €10 million should provide a great country-wide public transport system.

it would be 10 million more than they are spending now

maccored

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You do realize how many jobs are in Ireland because of American companies?

Trump got into power by promising to bring jobs back. 10 million is tiny if you compare what would happen if a Intel or HP or IBM pulled out of Ireland. Each of those companies have how many employees?



Last thing Ireland needs is pi**ing off the American's, love him or hate him but Trump is the president of America

yeah - lets keep doffing the oul cap :rolleyes:

LeinsterDub

Turbohymac wrote: »

Again in theory yes the government are correct to try to reduce cow emissions.. but it has been decided that heavy trucks etc will not be able to use battery power EV.. only small passenger vehicles and even if all our power requirements were being generated by wind etc .

I don't know why I'm bothering as you'll just move the goal posts again but here you go
http://www.emoss.nl/en/electric-vehicles/full-electric-truck/

LeinsterDub

average_runner wrote: »

Have you got a link for that stat? Be good to have

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/more-than-half-of-all-trips-into-dublin-now-on-public-transport-36934154.html

maccored

we do all realise that to make electric cars (nevermind to currently power them) we need to take more and more natural minerals from the earth? Theres an interesting UK based analysis here - https://www.nhm.ac.uk/press-office/press-releases/leading-scientists-set-out-resource-challenge-of-meeting-net-zer.html

The challenges set out in the letter are:

The metal resource needed to make all cars and vans electric by 2050 and all sales to be purely battery electric by 2035. To replace all UK-based vehicles today with electric vehicles (not including the LGV and HGV fleets), assuming they use the most resource-frugal next-generation NMC 811 batteries, would take 207,900 tonnes cobalt, 264,600 tonnes of lithium carbonate (LCE), at least 7,200 tonnes of neodymium and dysprosium, in addition to 2,362,500 tonnes copper. This represents, just under two times the total annual world cobalt production, nearly the entire world production of neodymium, three quarters the world’s lithium production and at least half of the world’s copper production during 2018. Even ensuring the annual supply of electric vehicles only, from 2035 as pledged, will require the UK to annually import the equivalent of the entire annual cobalt needs of European industry.

The worldwide impact: If this analysis is extrapolated to the currently projected estimate of two billion cars worldwide, based on 2018 figures, annual production would have to increase for neodymium and dysprosium by 70%, copper output would need to more than double and cobalt output would need to increase at least three and a half times for the entire period from now until 2050 to satisfy the demand.

Energy cost of metal production: This choice of vehicle comes with an energy cost too. Energy costs for cobalt production are estimated at 7000-8000 kWh for every tonne of metal produced and for copper 9000 kWh/t. The rare-earth energy costs are at least 3350 kWh/t, so for the target of all 31.5 million cars that requires 22.5 TWh of power to produce the new metals for the UK fleet, amounting to 6% of the UK’s current annual electrical usage. Extrapolated to 2 billion cars worldwide, the energy demand for extracting and processing the metals is almost 4 times the total annual UK electrical output

Energy cost of charging electric cars: There are serious implications for the electrical power generation in the UK needed to recharge these vehicles. Using figures published for current EVs (Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe), driving 252.5 billion miles uses at least 63 TWh of power. This will demand a 20% increase in UK generated electricity.

Challenges of using ‘green energy’ to power electric cars: If wind farms are chosen to generate the power for the projected two billion cars at UK average usage, this requires the equivalent of a further years’ worth of total global copper supply and 10 years’ worth of global neodymium and dysprosium production to build the windfarms.

Solar power is also problematic – it is also resource hungry; all the photovoltaic systems currently on the market are reliant on one or more raw materials classed as “critical” or “near critical” by the EU and/ or US Department of Energy (high purity silicon, indium, tellurium, gallium) because of their natural scarcity or their recovery as minor-by-products of other commodities. With a capacity factor of only ~10%, the UK would require ~72GW of photovoltaic input to fuel the EV fleet; over five times the current installed capacity. If CdTe-type photovoltaic power is used, that would consume over thirty years of current annual tellurium supply.

Both these wind turbine and solar generation options for the added electrical power generation capacity have substantial demands for steel, aluminium, cement and glass.

The co-signatories, like Prof Herrington are part of SoS MinErals, an interdisciplinary programme of NERC-EPSRC-Newton-FAPESP funded research focusing on the science needed to sustain the security of supply of strategic minerals in a changing environment. This programme falls under NERC's sustainable use of natural resources (SUNR) strategic theme.

LeinsterDub

maccored wrote: »

we do all realise that to make electric cars (nevermind to currently power them) we need to take more and more natural minerals from the earth? Theres an interesting UK based analysis here - https://www.nhm.ac.uk/press-office/press-releases/leading-scientists-set-out-resource-challenge-of-meeting-net-zer.html

That's why we need to start banning cars from city centres. An EV does nothing for congestion

maccored

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That's why we need to start banning cars from city centres. An EV does nothing for congestion

instead they want to tax electric bikes

Water John

There is already one electric transport ship in Norway. The're have been tractors and industrial loaders trialled as well. Obviously widespread feasability is reliant on improved battery tech.
There are also reports of improved and easier hydrogen storage. It's amazing what R & D can come up with when it becomes a necessity.

James Brown

The trouble with the greens is they are a concept. As environmentalism gains popularity so do they but their last showing with the FF government didn't give much hope to their ability to either govern or hold one of the civil war parties to task.

We should give incentives and tax breaks to alternative energy industries and consumers.

Shefwedfan

average_runner wrote: »

Because they are expensive and not everyone can afford to buy a new car.
And we also don't know the health concerns in relation to the batteries in the car?

Quick question, how long does a battery last for and how bad is it for the environment when you get a new battery?

As pointed out above people have done huge mileage in electric cars without massive degradation...


Try and buy a battery out of a crashed electric car, they are extremely hard to get and if you do manage to get your hands on one it will cost afortune.


Do you also wonder why the amount of Electric cars been sold in Ireland is on a huge increase?


The car itself is not worth much, the battery can be stripped out, broken up and sold at huge profits in Europe for Solar PV. You could put massive mileage on car, strip out battery and large sections can be re-used for solar PV.


The dead units, well they can be reused...

GreeBo

maccored wrote: »

how about because I havent got 40 grand?

How far is your commute?
There are options for under 40 grand.

Shefwedfan

maccored wrote: »

yeah - lets keep doffing the oul cap :rolleyes:

How long would 10 million last if 10,000 people got stuck on the unemployment list if American companies pulled out.....

Plus all the people supplying canteens etc,

LeinsterDub

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The trouble with the greens is they are a concept. As environmentalism gains popularity so do they but their last showing with the FF government didn't give much hope to their ability to either govern or hold one of the civil war parties to task.

We should give incentives and tax breaks to alternative energy industries and consumers.

Surely the Greens held them to task on a number of environmental issues as they got a number of policies enacted many of which we still have now . Their failure was hold them to task on banking and housing

Shefwedfan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That's why we need to start banning cars from city centres. An EV does nothing for congestion

As I said already swapping a million diesel cars for a million electric cars is not the answer.


Swapping a million cars and replacing them with public transport if the option.

is_that_so

demfad wrote: »

"Maritime shipping transports 90 percent of the goods traded around the world by volume. Moving large amounts of goods such as oil, computers, blue jeans and wheat across oceans drives the global economy, making it cheaper and easier to buy almost anything.


But hauling goods around by sea requires roughly 300 million tons of very dirty fuel, producing nearly 3 percent of the world's carbon dioxide emissions, giving the international maritime shipping industry roughly the same carbon footprint as Germany."

It will happen-possibilities include:

-Massive levy on this dirty fuel
-Goods available at home will be prohibited from being bought from far away places.
-Eventual technological solutions but relatively very costly.

The result will be goods will be manufactured closer to where they are consumed. Manufacturing will be 'regional' or 'local' not globalized.

(Obviously the dirty fuel ship WTO 'Global' Britain should stay in port.


https://phys.org/news/2018-12-cargo-ships-emitting-boatloads-carbon.html

Some operators are looking at different ways along with a commitment to being carbon neutral by 2050.

https://www.greenmatters.com/p/shipping-company-maersk-carbon-neutral

maccored

GreeBo wrote: »

How far is your commute?
There are options for under 40 grand.

but why should I change a decent car now? Can I wait until it's ready to be scrapped? you are suggesting that the answer is go get yourself in debt to buy an electric car because the government cant be arsed to invest in proper public transport - nevermind its increasingly looking like electric cars are a very short term answer

maccored

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How long would 10 million last if 10,000 people got stuck on the unemployment list if American companies pulled out.....

Plus all the people supplying canteens etc,

and americans will do that because why again? you are engaging in silly talk, saying we need to please everyone or else they might all run away and leave us.

James Brown

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Surely the Greens held them to task on a number of environmental issues as they got a number of policies enacted many of which we still have now . Their failure was hold them to task on banking and housing

A one issue party are no use, if that's all they can offer.

Shefwedfan

https://www.thejournal.ie/climate-action-plan-4685603-Jun2019/?fbclid=IwAR27HkBS5Ns086vyX6rhUchlDkcriYBinXgeNnp0O42Kj6q43GQJxLmFdMo

Some of the stuff on the way

Chips Lovell

maccored wrote: »

instead they want to tax electric bikes

They don't. Nothing has changed on that front. There were some stories in the news recently about them cracking down on electric bikes and scooters that didn't meet the regulations for electric bikes. But the law hasn't changed and is unlikely to change soon. You can still buy an electric bike and not have it taxed.

maccored wrote: »

but why should I change a decent car now? Can I wait until it's ready to be scrapped?

Actually, a scrappage scheme to encourage uptake is part of the proposals.

Introduction of a car scrappage scheme in 2020 to encourage the increased take-up of electric vehicles.

maccored

Chips Lovell wrote: »

They don't. Nothing has changed on that front. There were some stories in the news recently about them cracking down on electric bikes and scooters that didn't meet the regulations for electric bikes. But the law hasn't changed and is unlikely to change soon. You can still buy an electric bike and not have it taxed.



Actually, a scrappage scheme to encourage uptake is part of the proposals.

so the answer is indeed 'get rid of your car and get a new one'. Do we live in a democracy?

tayto lover

The Green Party are as bad as the rest. All they want is the big money being in government guarantees. A shower of shysters.
They have as much interest in the environment as I have in cricket.

GreeBo

maccored wrote: »

but why should I change a decent car now? Can I wait until it's ready to be scrapped? you are suggesting that the answer is go get yourself in debt to buy an electric car because the government cant be arsed to invest in proper public transport - nevermind its increasingly looking like electric cars are a very short term answer

If its more expensive to fuel, tax and run and it pollutes then is it really a decent car now?

I'm pretty sure nothing is because "the government can't be arsed".

How far is your commute and what transport alternatives are available?

Why are you saying they are short term?
How much oil is left do you reckon?

Shefwedfan

maccored wrote: »

and americans will do that because why again? you are engaging in silly talk, saying we need to please everyone or else they might all run away and leave us.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0108/112419-dell/

GreeBo

maccored wrote: »

so the answer is indeed 'get rid of your car and get a new one'. Do we live in a democracy?

Did you accidentally merge two sentences there?

Wanderer78

maccored wrote:

so the answer is indeed 'get rid of your car and get a new one'. Do we live in a democracy?

It can be more plutocratic than democratic at times, but yes, we do have elements of both

maccored

GreeBo wrote: »

If its more expensive to fuel, tax and run and it pollutes then is it really a decent car now?

I'm pretty sure nothing is because "the government can't be arsed".

How far is your commute and what transport alternatives are available?

Why are you saying they are short term?
How much oil is left do you reckon?

theres probably as much oil left as there are natural resources left like cobalt, lithium and copper used to make electric cars

Chips Lovell

maccored wrote: »

so the answer is indeed 'get rid of your car and get a new one'. Do we live in a democracy?

I don't think you'll be made to get rid of your car. You may have to pay more tax on it. And you may get a sweetener for buying an electric when the time comes to trade it in.

Disincentivising certain behaviour by taxing it and incentivising other behaviours by providing grants or tax breaks is not a new practice and occurs in most democracies.

maccored

GreeBo wrote: »

Did you accidentally merge two sentences there?

nope. it seems its not expected for the government to supply alternatives to driving - you are expected it seems to just go out and buy a new car and scrap the one you have. We seem to forget where most of the electricity comes from, or the environmental impact of creating electric cars

Wanderer78

tayto lover wrote:

The Green Party are as bad as the rest. All they want is the big money being in government guarantees. A shower of shysters. They have as much interest in the environment as I have in cricket.

I know a couple of green party members, environmental issues are a critical part of their core beliefs