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If the Green Party got into government are they mad

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    #332
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Deleted User wrote: »
    No mention of agriculture, Moneypoint or the cement or airline industries in this analysis...

    All four are mentioned in the plan. The word "agriculture" is mentioned 101 times in a 145 page document. Moneypoint is to close in 2025


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    #333
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Berserker wrote: »
    Oh, this is gold for the government. They can implement these measures, which will not go down well with the majority when they cost of them hits home and they'll blame it on the GP. The GP will be back down to 1% and no seats soon after that.

    Could be right but they might suffer like FF did too. The Greens could cause them the same problem.


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    #334
    abcabc123123
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭abcabc123123


    Berserker wrote: »
    Oh, this is gold for the government. They can implement these measures, which will not go down well with the majority when they cost of them hits home and they'll blame it on the GP. The GP will be back down to 1% and no seats soon after that.
    They can blame the party with 2 seats that is in opposition. Yeah, that'll work well. If they implement policies badly, they'll lose more votes to FF and the Greens will just say that they would have done things differently.

    At any rate, the assumption that that Green policies are intrinsically negative economically is false.


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    #335
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    I take it taxi and bus fares will all drop now also when we move to Electric cars, as fuel cost will be alot cheaper?


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    #336
    The Specialist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Very few actually voted for them. About 5% in fact.
    Does that give them the right to railroad the vast majority who didn’t vote for them?
    I believe the Government are just using the opportunity to extract more money from the working man.
    I’ll wait to see the incentives they offer in exchange for greener measures. It will show how genuine they actually are.

    Exactly, they have decided to go head first like a bull in to these plans on the assumption that the greens have a sizeable support - they don't. They will find out loud and clear in the next election what the majority thinks of this ****ing nonsense.


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    #337
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    GreeBo wrote: »
    They are charging you more money for polluting more. They dont force you to work there.

    Im not asking you what is there now, I'm asking you do you think it's reasonable to expect public transport to cater for your 40 mile commute within a reasonable time, let's pick 90 minutes?

    why the whataboutery?

    Im saying dont charge me more money to get to work unless you give me an alternative way to get there.

    no idea where your going with your 90 minutes


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    #338
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Berserker wrote: »
    What are you planning on buying? You can get an electric car or a hybrid for less than that. I've a 172 Auris (Hybrid) and it cost me far less than that, second hand.

    i'm not planning on buying anything.


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    #339
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,134 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    maccored wrote: »
    why the whataboutery?

    Im saying dont charge me more money to get to work unless you give me an alternative way to get there.

    no idea where your going with your 90 minutes

    Its not whataboutery. You keep saying there is no alternative, I'm asking you is it realistic to expect public transport for your commute.
    You keep ignoring the question and then bring up walking and other random distractions.

    You are the only person to blame for your commute. Why you think its someone elses problem to solve is beyond my comprehension.

    Everyone is going to be charged more for using fossil fuels, its not some personal vendetta against you.

    Still waiting for a reply on where you think your 40% tax is going...


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    #340
    The Specialist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Its not whataboutery. You keep saying there is no alternative, I'm asking you is it realistic to expect public transport for your commute.
    You keep ignoring the question and then bring up walking and other random distractions.

    You are the only person to blame for your commute. Why you think its someone elses problem to solve is beyond my comprehension.

    Everyone is going to be charged more for using fossil fuels, its not some personal vendetta against you.

    Still waiting for a reply on where you think your 40% tax is going...

    What an attitude to have, it's his fault for having a job???! **** out of that


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    #341
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    average_runner wrote: »
    I take it taxi and bus fares will all drop now also when we move to Electric cars, as fuel cost will be alot cheaper?


    Electric taxis already on the road....the few clever taxi drivers worked out the regulator charges are based on petrol/diesel and not electric so they can make a tidy profit.



    So at the moment, you can take an electric taxi but you pay the same as combustion engine.....


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    #342
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,134 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    The Specialist wrote: »
    What an attitude to have, it's his fault for having a job???! **** out of that

    No, its his decision to commute 40 miles everyday.
    Who do you think is to blame? Leo?:rolleyes:


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    #343
    The Specialist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭The Specialist


    GreeBo wrote: »
    No, its his decision to commute 40 miles everyday.
    Who do you think is to blame? Leo?:rolleyes:

    Yes it's called having a job and being required to travel to that job - it's not a "decision" as you put it, but rather something expected of adults who aren't parasites with their hands out for welfare. Do you work?


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    #344
    rabbidpeach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35 ✭rabbidpeach


    GreeBo wrote: »
    No, its his decision to commute 40 miles everyday.
    Who do you think is to blame? Leo?:rolleyes:
    Government policy of putting a significant number of jobs in Dublin and the high cost of living there is to blame. If we had more balanced development and/or reasonable cost housing in Dublin, maybe there wouldn't be such a need for huge commutes.


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    #345
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Are we really complaining about 40 miles? that is 60km....hardly a long commute.

    I do that a few times a week into Dublin city centre.

    Seriously are we saying a 40-mile commute the best option is diesel?


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    #346
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    rabbidpeach wrote: »
    Government policy of putting a significant number of jobs in Dublin and the high cost of living there is to blame. If we had more balanced development and/or reasonable cost housing in Dublin, maybe there wouldn't be such a need for huge commutes.


    Have a look around this forum, it was started before about a person living outside Dublin but would prefer to travel into Dublin for "Dublin wages"

    A number of companies have tried to move out, Dunnes Stores got a huge new office and the staff wouldn't move out.

    Try our lovely civil servants who strike anytime anyone tries to move them out.

    Companies based in Dublin has nothing to do with the government, it is all to do with the irish people.


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    #347
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,134 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    rabbidpeach wrote: »
    Government policy of putting a significant number of jobs in Dublin and the high cost of living there is to blame. If we had more balanced development and/or reasonable cost housing in Dublin, maybe there wouldn't be such a need for huge commutes.

    They "put" the jobs in Dublin did they?
    The Specialist wrote: »
    Yes it's called having a job and being required to travel to that job - it's not a "decision" as you put it,

    The decision is to not work near where you live.
    The Specialist wrote: »
    but rather something expected of adults who aren't parasites with their hands out for welfare. Do you work?
    :rolleyes:


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    #348
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Its not whataboutery. You keep saying there is no alternative, I'm asking you is it realistic to expect public transport for your commute.
    You keep ignoring the question and then bring up walking and other random distractions.

    You are the only person to blame for your commute. Why you think its someone elses problem to solve is beyond my comprehension.

    Everyone is going to be charged more for using fossil fuels, its not some personal vendetta against you.

    Still waiting for a reply on where you think your 40% tax is going...

    This really is a bit silly as a post. Let's try a simple question. Why do you think the poster has such a long commute?


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    #349
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    GreeBo wrote: »
    They "put" the jobs in Dublin did they?



    The decision is to not work near where you live.

    Are you representative of Green thought on all of this? If so there is really no hope for any of us.


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    #350
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    GreeBo wrote: »
    No, its his decision to commute 40 miles everyday.
    Who do you think is to blame? Leo?:rolleyes:

    theres this thing called 'work'. see, if you dont live in the city, you could find that your expertise in this thing called 'work' might not be next door to you. you might have to 'travel' .. that might be a new word for you as well. thats where you have to go from a to b using transport.

    the government have this thing called 'public transport' - you know, the likes of those bus things and the luas that you might find in dublin - but outside cities, its a bit ****. where I am its none existent. if it wasnt non existent, then I would use it and wouldnt mind if fuel got more expensive. the problem is it isnt.

    your answer is to get a job nearer my house. thats a stupid answer.

    Now, while you wait on me to (for some reason) explain where my taxes go (wasnt that the question I was asking?) maybe you could explain to me where we're going to find the precious metals we need to make electric cars with because - as outlined earlier in an article about the subject - we might find (as many already suspect) that electric cars arent as green as you think they are.


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    #351
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Are we really complaining about 40 miles? that is 60km....hardly a long commute.

    I do that a few times a week into Dublin city centre.

    Seriously are we saying a 40-mile commute the best option is diesel?

    the other option is petrol ... my point is public transport is not an option as there isnt any public transport options. as per my first post, my issue with carbon taxes is theres no public transport option to stop me from having to drive, therefore Im going to end up paying more money but still having to pollute the atmosphere. charging me more wont stop me having to drive. providing a public transport option will


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    #352
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,131 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Society has in many ways over the last 60-80 years been built around private motor transport. Living patterns and workplace locations have grown from access to cheap private transport.

    Ultimately people are going to suffer with a change in focus, it is unavoidable. The best that can be done is to try and mitigate the worst effects for those who are least capable of facing them. Society, as a whole, will adapt and reap benefits but there will still be large swathes of people who this will negatively affect. However, that is simply not an argument for not doing it as the global consequences of doing nothing are far, far worse.


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    #353
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    maccored wrote: »
    the other option is petrol ... my point is public transport is not an option as there isnt any public transport options. as per my first post, my issue with carbon taxes is theres no public transport option to stop me from having to drive, therefore Im going to end up paying more money but still having to pollute the atmosphere. charging me more wont stop me having to drive. providing a public transport option will


    For 40 miles you have diesel/petrol/hybrid/phev and electric. They are all options which would easily manage that commute. Before you say I am telling you to buy a new car, I am not, I am just saying when you do buy a new car you should look at options.

    Just to clarify, do you have no public transport at all? or do you have no public transport which drives past your door when you want it to?

    Ireland will need to move to transport hubs if people want to work in Dublin for "Dublin wages". Simple as that. Locations like M3 parkway etc will become more popular. Instead of driving from Navan to Dublin everyday people will need to get a bus from Navan to dublin, or better still they run the train to Navan.

    These are just examples.


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    #354
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,134 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    is_that_so wrote: »
    This really is a bit silly as a post. Let's try a simple question. Why do you think the poster has such a long commute?
    Because they work 40 miles away from where they live.
    is_that_so wrote: »
    Are you representative of Green thought on all of this? If so there is really no hope for any of us.

    At last something we agree on. There indeed is no hope for those people who want it all handed to them. A similar cohort to the negative equity is someone elses fault gang I surmise.


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    #355
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    maccored wrote: »
    theres this thing called 'work'. see, if you dont live in the city, you could find that your expertise in this thing called 'work' might not be next door to you. you might have to 'travel' .. that might be a new word for you as well. thats where you have to go from a to b using transport.

    the government have this thing called 'public transport' - you know, the likes of those bus things and the luas that you might find in dublin - but outside cities, its a bit ****. where I am its none existent. if it wasnt non existent, then I would use it and wouldnt mind if fuel got more expensive. the problem is it isnt.

    your answer is to get a job nearer my house. thats a stupid answer.

    Now, while you wait on me to (for some reason) explain where my taxes go (wasnt that the question I was asking?) maybe you could explain to me where we're going to find the precious metals we need to make electric cars with because - as outlined earlier in an article about the subject - we might find (as many already suspect) that electric cars arent as green as you think they are.

    I have argued for a long time that rural living, unless it is directly associated with the land (farming), or the immediate community (local services), is unsustainable because as in all countries across the world, city living is taking over.

    You are eloquently making the case for same. You have to travel 40 miles each way for a commute which is damaging to the environment, jobs for your skills are not available in your locality, and the provision of public transport is uneconomical.

    As you say, getting a job near your house is a stupid answer. Unfortunately for you, paying a high price in carbon taxes is the only alternative to moving house closer to where the jobs are.


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    #356
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Because they work 40 miles away from where they live.



    At last something we agree on. There indeed is no hope for those people who want it all handed to them. A similar cohort to the negative equity is someone elses fault gang I surmise.
    And somehow you didn't manage to wonder why they live 40 miles from work?


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    #357
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,134 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    maccored wrote: »
    theres this thing called 'work'. see, if you dont live in the city, you could find that your expertise in this thing called 'work' might not be next door to you. you might have to 'travel' .. that might be a new word for you as well. thats where you have to go from a to b using transport.
    so its someone elses fault that you gained expertise in a field that you can only gain employment 40 miles from where you live?
    maccored wrote: »
    the government have this thing called 'public transport' - you know, the likes of those bus things and the luas that you might find in dublin - but outside cities, its a bit ****. where I am its none existent. if it wasnt non existent, then I would use it and wouldnt mind if fuel got more expensive. the problem is it isnt.
    Yes the big cities. Where the majority of the big people live.
    maccored wrote: »

    your answer is to get a job nearer my house. thats a stupid answer.
    No, its a realistic answer. Your argument is that someone else should get you out of a mess of your own making.
    maccored wrote: »

    Now, while you wait on me to (for some reason) explain where my taxes go (wasnt that the question I was asking?) maybe you could explain to me where we're going to find the precious metals we need to make electric cars with because - as outlined earlier in an article about the subject - we might find (as many already suspect) that electric cars arent as green as you think they are.

    No, I asked you who do you think pays for all the public services you utilise?

    Maybe you could explain to me where we are going to find all the oil to satisfy the needs of the people who continue to take ridiculous commutes?


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    #358
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,134 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    is_that_so wrote: »
    And somehow you didn't manage to wonder why they live 40 miles from work?

    Oh Im sure I can guess the reason.
    Fat cat bankers?


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    #359
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Oh Im sure I can guess the reason.
    Fat cat bankers?
    Of course it is. You've shown yourself to be quick to judgement and pretty low on any support of your very biased assumptions.


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    #360
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,134 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    maccored wrote: »
    the other option is petrol ... my point is public transport is not an option as there isnt any public transport options. as per my first post, my issue with carbon taxes is theres no public transport option to stop me from having to drive, therefore Im going to end up paying more money but still having to pollute the atmosphere. charging me more wont stop me having to drive. providing a public transport option will

    Im confused. You initially said there was public transport. Now you keep saying there isnt. Which is it?
    I asked earlier can you just leave earlier and you told me again there was no Public Transport. So what were you referring to in your post below?
    maccored wrote: »
    the question I have about the carbon tax is where are my alternatives? I drive 40 miles to work every day and there are no public or private tranport alternatives - certainly none that would get me to work on time.


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    #361
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,134 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Shefwedfan wrote: »

    Ireland will need to move to transport hubs if people want to work in Dublin for "Dublin wages". Simple as that. Locations like M3 parkway etc will become more popular. Instead of driving from Navan to Dublin everyday people will need to get a bus from Navan to dublin, or better still they run the train to Navan.

    These are just examples.

    We have already had people say "oh but what if I want to do something after work".
    People want to live in the middle of nowhere and then are up in arms when they dont have the same facilities as those living in a capital city.

    Its ridiculous.


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