If the Green Party got into government are they mad

cutelad

Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

Wanderer78

As mad as any party, but maybe looking after the planet is a good idea, future generations might appreciate it, but I'm not convinced carbon taxes is the way to go though, but of course I could be wrong

Seth Brundle

cutelad wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

Why would they "tax the hilt out of us"?

Macha

UN climate scientists say we have 11 years left to halve global emissions. In that context, the Green Party would be mad not to go into government in the near future, given the time lag between policy decisions and implementation.

Add to that the irreparable damage of plastics and the escalating biodiversity crisis.

Seth Brundle

cutelad wrote: »

I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?

Wanderer78

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?

imo, its not, but it wont be easy to resolve these issues, people do need to make a living. its clearly obvious that radical changes are required to protect our planet, but the complex operations of our modern economic systems wont make this an easy one to resolve

Seth Brundle

Yes but the OP is giving out about the possibility of the Greens getting into government but it's mainly the OPs choices i.e. long commute because of their job and their home choices

Wanderer78

Seth Brundle wrote:

Yes but the OP is giving out about the possibility of the Greens getting into government but it's mainly the OPs choices i.e. long commute because of their job and their home choices

Funnily enough, you ll find, we don't live in a perfect world, where we truly have complete control of where we live and work, again, solving our environmental problems isn't gonna be easy for many reasons, including these ones. The approach of 'personal responsibility' has severe limitations in this regard, but that's not to say we should all personally ignore our own responsibilities in helping solve these issues.

Blazer

Its a complete waste of time.
A little country like Ireland wouldn't even make a dent in global emissions.
As long as the US/China/India and other developing nations continue to pollute the planet its basically a losing battle.
Its going to basically take a catastrophic event before we get our act together.

Wanderer78

Blazer wrote:

Its a complete waste of time. A little country like Ireland wouldn't even make a dent in global emissions. As long as the US/China/India and other developing nations continue to pollute the planet its basically a losing battle. Its going to basically take a catastrophic event before we get our act together.

So let's do nothing?

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So let's do nothing?

Kind of. Have you seen the "keep it in the ground" campaign to ban oil and gas exploration round Ireland?

We're going to virtue signal by banning exploration and then keep importing and using oil and gas from abroad.

Wanderer78

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Kind of. Have you seen the "keep it in the ground" campaign to ban oil and gas exploration round Ireland?

We're going to virtue signal by banning exploration and then keep importing and using oil and gas from abroad.

thats rather progressive isnt it, kind of, do nothing! by any chance would that have any negative effects on our environment?

keep it in the ground, kinna makes sense, if we start doing it, and other countries to, maybe we can start changing things for the better? maybe it would force us all to move towards alternative energy sources?

jcd5971

Macha wrote:

Add to that the irreparable damage of plastics and the escalating biodiversity crisis.

Seth Brundle wrote:

Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?

I live in West of Ireland, the only option is to drive, there is not even public transport routes, therefore I have to drive 45 mins each way everyday.

A diesel is the most cost efficient method to do this so that's what I do, and its not a fancy hybrid it's an old dirty smoky diesel.

whilst I'm aware that I'm doing damage to the environment, I have not been provided with a financially viable alternative and therefore, I continue to operate as I do, because the sad fact is that like the majority of the people in this country I don't care enough about climate change and bio diversity to change.

The greens will never be the primary party, be realistic even if this local elections performance translates to the next election, the best they can hope for is to be the junior party, the most likely outcome is finna fail/fine Gael coalition continuing and paying token heed to environment.


Your problem is people like me, I'm sad to see marine life slowly disappear etc, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to change it especially not if it costs me financially.

Grudaire

jcd5971 wrote: »

Your problem is people like me, I'm sad to see marine life slowly disappear etc, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to change it especially not if it costs me financially.

What about the costs and unconvince in the near future from not making some changes now?

LeinsterDub

jcd5971 wrote: »

Your problem is people like me, I'm sad to see marine life slowly disappear etc, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to change it especially not if it costs me financially.

The selfish will always be selfish. The same ilk who had a problem with the smoking ban and the charge on plastic bags. Government policies shouldn't be dictated by those who are happy to destroy the common good

is_that_so

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Green Party aside, do you think that is sustainable for the environment?

In an EV yes. We actually need more focus on what can be easily addressed.

is_that_so

Wanderer78 wrote: »

As mad as any party, but maybe looking after the planet is a good idea, future generations might appreciate it, but I'm not convinced carbon taxes is the way to go though, but of course I could be wrong

If they curb their out and out zealotry they'd be no different to any of the other putative government parties. While there is unquestionably a sense of urgency on climate change their focus is far too black and white in some areas to sell to people. Much higher taxes alone would not fly at all and they could be out of government as quickly as they got in.

demfad

cutelad wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

No. But in mid 2019 any political party who's policies are not framed by green ones is mad, ignorant, stupid (or bought).

is_that_so

demfad wrote: »

No. But in mid 2019 any political party who's policies are not framed by green ones is mad, ignorant, stupid (or bought).

The challenge for the Greens is to continue to stand out. The likes of FF & FG can just attach green policies to negate them.

InTheShadows

The bottom line is people like turkeys won't vote for xmas. Yes the greens got a few more votes at the last time of asking but it was what 8% of the overall, hardly a green wave is it?

jcd5971

Grudaire wrote:

What about the costs and unconvince in the near future from not making some changes now?

So what is my alternative, its easy to say just change, but how what's your actual alternative to a 45 minute commute?

And that's not a snarky reply, what is the actual solution?
No public transport so that's out.

Get a hybrid, realistically not happening cost is too prohibitive.

Its easy say change with no actual solutions its just idle chatter and nothing actually changes

BarryD2

cutelad wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

I used to vote Green but I thought the decision to go into government with FF was a bad one and they came badly out of it. Did some good things, but say the removal of bedsitters from Dublin etc without sufficient alternatives being put in place was downright reckless and a contributory part to the current housing problems there. Likewise the incentives to buy diesel cars just fueled the pockets of the car dealers. An elderly neighbour here had a perfectly good but older petrol car which became increasingly expensive to tax & insure - scrapped and a new diesel bought.

The Greens have changed, they used to be a party that opposed environmental destruction by say mining.. but now they support environmental destruction with policies to construct industrial scale wind farms. The Greens used to be about making do with less - reduce, reuse, recycle.. but now they want us to buy electric cars. More churning of the market, more waste of resources.

The future of life according to the Greens here is city living and everything powered by electricity. But little or no care or thought into how all this electricity will be supplied and the environmental consequences of same.

lawred2

cutelad wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

Can they be any worse than FFG?

We've got about a decade to provide a future for our children. It's clear FFG have no credentials in this regard.

demfad

InTheShadows wrote: »

The bottom line is people like turkeys won't vote for xmas. Yes the greens got a few more votes at the last time of asking but it was what 8% of the overall, hardly a green wave is it?

The Green party in Germany has been the largest party in polling for the last 3 polls in a row at 27%. That is very significant. We are coming from a smaller base being a (traditionally) more conservative country. But the direction is clear.

Shefwedfan

cutelad wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone fear the green party getting into power. The likelyhood they will want us all stop burning turf stop driving and get buses and tax the hilt out of us. All grand but they are a Dublin party and no clue of the country folk. I drive 40 miles each way to work and really only way to get there.

You do realise it’s not the greens who will tax the hilt out of us

If we don’t meet our CO2 targets then we will be buying CO2 credits at stupid money so whichever party is in power is going to have to pay those fines, how will they generate that money? Tax of course

If Ireland met our targets and went below them we could actually sell our credits at stupid money to other people
Ireland is one of the smallest land masses in Europe and we have the one of the Hughes percentage of diesel cars.....a 40 mile commute is tiny!!!

demfad

BarryD2 wrote: »

I used to vote Green but I thought the decision to go into government with FF was a bad one and they came badly out of it. Did some good things, but say the removal of bedsitters from Dublin etc without sufficient alternatives being put in place was downright reckless and a contributory part to the current housing problems there. Likewise the incentives to buy diesel cars just fueled the pockets of the car dealers. An elderly neighbour here had a perfectly good but older petrol car which became increasingly expensive to tax & insure - scrapped and a new diesel bought.

The Greens have changed, they used to be a party that opposed environmental destruction by say mining.. but now they support environmental destruction with policies to construct industrial scale wind farms. The Greens used to be about making do with less - reduce, reuse, recycle.. but now they want us to buy electric cars. More churning of the market, more waste of resources.

The future of life according to the Greens here is city living and everything powered by electricity. But little or no care or thought into how all this electricity will be supplied and the environmental consequences of same.

I am not a green supporter. However, I find it mighty unlikely that those policies that you have outlined are actual green policies.

For example switching to electric cars make sense if the electricity comes from renewable sources. Reducing the cost of public transport also makes sense.
Reducing the average journey between workplace and commuter makes sense.
A high quality data network meaning that an ever increasing volume of work does not have to be completed at the place of work.
This reduces over all construction etc.
That's just a few policies around transport.
Everyone should be up to date on these issues. It's the one issue where our positions must be grounded in reality

biko

Green parties are usually big city hipsters and generally clueless about the real-world nation-wide implications of their ill-thought-out "politics".

I used to vote Green but then I started looking into their politics beyond the lazy attitude I had that "sure, they probably good for the planet" and left.


Parties like this are usually leftists and will be hijacked by socialists sooner or later.

From greenparty.ie
The Green Party is a progressive political party focused on social justice, democracy and protection of the environment.
Only one thing here is green, the rest is leftist mumbo jumbo..

Beechwoodspark

If ppl have been paying there are some very worrying signs this year regarding climate change

For example.

Nobelium

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why would they "tax the hilt out of us"?

We'll they are hardly going tax the rich are they ? Wouldn't go down too well in their comfortable leafy suburbs.

It's all about passing the burden of carbon taxes onto those who can least afford them, i.e. the ordinary working person. As usual the rich and the social welfare classes will be looked after.

Shefwedfan

jcd5971 wrote: »

I live in West of Ireland, the only option is to drive, there is not even public transport routes, therefore I have to drive 45 mins each way everyday.

A diesel is the most cost efficient method to do this so that's what I do, and its not a fancy hybrid it's an old dirty smoky diesel.

whilst I'm aware that I'm doing damage to the environment, I have not been provided with a financially viable alternative and therefore, I continue to operate as I do, because the sad fact is that like the majority of the people in this country I don't care enough about climate change and bio diversity to change.

The greens will never be the primary party, be realistic even if this local elections performance translates to the next election, the best they can hope for is to be the junior party, the most likely outcome is finna fail/fine Gael coalition continuing and paying token heed to environment.


Your problem is people like me, I'm sad to see marine life slowly disappear etc, but I'm not going to inconvenience myself to change it especially not if it costs me financially.

diesel is not the most efficient....unless you are driving 500km a day or similar mileage

It’s also not the most cost effective....

Shefwedfan

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/taxpayers-could-face-carbon-emissions-bill-of-7bn-930992.html

Just to confirm what I posted above, 7bn....how efficient is your smoky diesel now

tayto lover

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Yes but the OP is giving out about the possibility of the Greens getting into government but it's mainly the OPs choices i.e. long commute because of their job and their home choices

We can only go by what happened the last time they were in Government and all they did was put a tax on fuel and rubber stamp FF’s actions which helped bankrupt the country.

demfad

biko wrote: »

Green parties are usually big city hipsters and generally clueless about the real-world nation-wide implications of their ill-thought-out "politics".

I used to vote Green but then I started looking into their politics beyond the lazy attitude I had that "sure, they probably good for the planet" and left.


Parties like this are usually leftists and will be hijacked by socialists sooner or later.

From greenparty.ie
The Green Party is a progressive political party focused on social justice, democracy and protection of the environment.
Only one thing here is green, the rest is leftist mumbo jumbo..

Democracy itself is "leftist" Mumbo Jumbo? Exactly how right wing are you?

LeinsterDub

is_that_so wrote: »

In an EV yes. We actually need more focus on what can be easily addressed.

An EV does nothing for congestion, particulates, damage to the roads or your own personal health

Shefwedfan

Nobelium wrote: »

We'll they are hardly going tax the rich are they ? Wouldn't go down too well in their comfortable leafy suburbs.

It's all about passing the burden of carbon taxes onto those who can least afford them, i.e. the ordinary working person. As usual the rich and the social welfare classes will be looked after.

You seem to have an issue with suburbs? What have they done on you?

SonOfGoat

Just goes to show us Irish are really stupid people. The Lisbon treaty was voted no, but for some reason the nation changed it's mind and voted yes the second time. My point is, the dismal, idiotic green party at the time were spouting their usual rubbish. Wanting to ban light bulbs, wanting to raise the price of petrol and diesel and other carbon taxes. Eamon Ryan the moron on a tv show in about 2008 talking about they will have rural broadband in a few years and still look at it now. And the daddy of them all, the green party fought tooth and nail for water charges. So while there was uproar all over the country and people jailed over that, they get voted in. On a scale of 1-10, how stupid are Irish people.

Nobelium

The Irish electorate seem to have the memory of a goldfish.
From 2007-2011, the green party did everything they could to support, defend, and prop up FF's cronie capitalism that bankrupted this country for a generation, and left us with paying the massive debts we have to pay for several generations to come.

I'm all for preserving the environment for future generations, but the Green party are scum.

biko

demfad wrote: »

Democracy itself is "leftist" Mumbo Jumbo? Exactly how right wing are you?

Democracy itself is not leftist, you're right.

It's just a buzzword for them to use though.
More buzzwords they like (from their charter):
Individual autonomy
Inclusive democracy
Social justice
Gender equity
Justice between the generations
Global justice

The green's virtue signalling is strong.

If the Green Party could shake off the leftist blah and focus on the environment only, I'd probably start voting for them again.
Actually, I wouldn't because they are so heavily pro-EU.

skooterblue2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So let's do nothing?

Youre right lets force China and America and india to change by not buying their clothes, cars and electrical goods and medicines.

skooterblue2

Nobelium wrote: »

The Irish electorate seem to have the memory of a goldfish.
From 2007-2011, the green party did everything they could to support, defend, and prop up FF's cronie capitalism that bankrupted this country for a generation, and left us with paying the massive debts we have to pay for several generations to come.

I'm all for preserving the environment for future generations, but the Green party are scum.

I remember Mary White of the Green party tabling a white paper for "recognising the Travelling Community as an ethnic minority". This would mean reserved places in the Dail and Seanad. A percentage reserved in the Judicary, police and civil service and on the "higher Profession" courses in Universities. This stuff is all on the way folks.

eagle eye

No planes, stop making mobile phones and tablets. Would that make a huge difference?
Of course it would but you won't hear the greens or anybody else going after that stuff.
It's all about making it harder for the ordinary man.

Wanderer78

skooterblue2 wrote:

Youre right lets force China and America and india to change by not buying their clothes, cars and electrical goods and medicines.

So basically, let's collapse our economies?

skooterblue2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So basically, let's collapse our economies?

Thats right !!! we will show them by going back and living in caves. Can I bring my xBox, if thats ok?

Wanderer78

skooterblue2 wrote:

Thats right !!! we will show them by going back and living in caves. Can I bring my xBox, if thats ok?

Sure why not, surely there's components in it to start a fire

JJayoo

Green party should focus on making the environment work for the people. Why hasn't work started on the 90 solar farms that have planning permission? Because government won't garentee to buy the clean electricity. This for example would be an easy subject for green party to get behind instead of non stop ****e about bikes in dublin

skooterblue2

JJayoo wrote: »

Green party should focus on making the environment work for the people. Why hasn't work started on the 90 solar farms that have planning permission? Because government won't garentee to buy the clean electricity. This for example would be an easy subject for green party to get behind instead of non stop ****e about bikes in dublin

Those solar farms are a load of rubbish. Yes they do make free energy but not fast enough to cover the cost of manufacture and installation. Dont lets go down the road of Biofuels again, lets not forget Niger.

I like the green party ideals but like communism, they dont work in the real world.

BarryD2

Nobelium wrote: »

I'm all for preserving the environment for future generations, but the Green party are scum.

I wouldn't go that far now at all. Greens are generally thoughtful & well meaning. Just become too urban focused and blind to the wider consequences of their policies.

Nobelium

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I remember Mary White of the Green party tabling a white paper for "recognising the Travelling Community as an ethnic minority". This would mean reserved places in the Dail and Seanad. A percentage reserved in the Judicary, police and civil service and on the "higher Profession" courses in Universities. This stuff is all on the way folks.

Typical half wit Greens. Equality of opportunity for everyone is a very good idea for society. Equality of outcome for certain people only . . not so much.

Wanderer78

skooterblue2 wrote:

I like the green party ideals but like communism, they dont work in the real world.

Green party and communism, I'm not seeing the connection!

skooterblue2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Green party and communism, I'm not seeing the connection!

Great Ideas on paper but they dont translate well in the real world. See Venezuela. You get Mary Green back in power and we will all be headed for the Gulags.

Wanderer78

skooterblue2 wrote:

Great Ideas on paper but they dont translate well in the real world. See Venezuela

But we haven't based our economy on oil exports?