Clare GAA Discussion part 2 , No Purple Jumpers Allowed !!

Clareman

Marty Xavier wrote: »

Eire Og's grounds aren't fit for purpose though. The whole thing should be looked at. A stand won't do much for it.

They've a pitch, a car park, all weather pitch, a hurling wall, 2 dressing room blocks and a club house all onsite, they also have about 5 pitches available to them next door which is accessible via their grounds, if that's not fit for purpose I don't know what is

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Clareman wrote: »

They've a pitch, a car park, all weather pitch, a hurling wall, 2 dressing room blocks and a club house all onsite, they also have about 5 pitches available to them next door which is accessible via their grounds, if that's not fit for purpose I don't know what is

On the money Clareman. Just perhaps a new scoreboard is what is required. Other than that, if every GAA club in Ireland had what Eire Og have, then it will be a very good day for GAA in the country.

Clareman

In Clare we've lost the run of ourselves in building "state of the art GAA grounds" with a fascination about getting the pitches the same size as Croke Park. Around Ennis alone there's been big development put into Barefield, Kilmaley and Clarecastle. The old Clarecastle grounds are just sitting idel, the Tulla "Centre of Excellence" has been discussed at length, but they are all great facilities that are owned by the GAA so there's no need to mention Lees Road.

Clubs are based on people, that's management, players, community around the club, spending a fortune on facilities is just an easy thing to do to keep people busy looking like they are doing stuff

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Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

In Clare we've lost the run of ourselves in building "state of the art GAA grounds" with a fascination about getting the pitches the same size as Croke Park. Around Ennis alone there's been big development put into Barefield, Kilmaley and Clarecastle. The old Clarecastle grounds are just sitting idel, the Tulla "Centre of Excellence" has been discussed at length, but they are all great facilities that are owned by the GAA so there's no need to mention Lees Road.

Clubs are based on people, that's management, players, community around the club, spending a fortune on facilities is just an easy thing to do to keep people busy looking like they are doing stuff

A come on,, have you ever played in Kilmaleys old pitch. . you had the hill in the first half,, and the midges in the second half! It was a great pitch for about 3 months of the year.. We put in place two sand based pitches and a small astro to allow training. necessity in this case.
I always thought Barefield moving from Roslevan pitch fully was a mistake.

Clareman

Figerty wrote: »

A come on,, have you ever played in Kilmaleys old pitch. . you had the hill in the first half,, and the midges in the second half! It was a great pitch for about 3 months of the year.. We put in place two sand based pitches and a small astro to allow training. necessity in this case.
I always thought Barefield moving from Roslevan pitch fully was a mistake.

Not saying that the old pitch didnt need development, was just thinking of the top of my head all the pitches around Ennis which have been done up recently.

caddy16

Clareman wrote: »

In Clare we've lost the run of ourselves in building "state of the art GAA grounds" with a fascination about getting the pitches the same size as Croke Park. Around Ennis alone there's been big development put into Barefield, Kilmaley and Clarecastle. The old Clarecastle grounds are just sitting idel, the Tulla "Centre of Excellence" has been discussed at length, but they are all great facilities that are owned by the GAA so there's no need to mention Lees Road.

Clubs are based on people, that's management, players, community around the club, spending a fortune on facilities is just an easy thing to do to keep people busy looking like they are doing stuff

Your 2nd paragraph is complete and utter rubbish. If you think people have nothing better to do than fundraise and put time into development of facilities and that this is easy your deluded. In a lot of clubs these people are also managing teams and administrators.

Figerty

caddy16 wrote: »

Your 2nd paragraph is complete and utter rubbish. If you think people have nothing better to do than fundraise and put time into development of facilities and that this is easy your deluded. In a lot of clubs these people are also managing teams and administrators.

I'd have to agree to some extent. Fundraising is a nightmare. Development brings a mountain of paperwork.. a real mountain of bureaucracy . It's far easier to be training teams and more enjoyable.

Clareman

Does every club need an astro turf pitch with flood lights for example?

Years ago every second club had a squash court now the fad seems to be astroturf soccer pitches that need to be ran every night to break even. Lots of clubs have fine facilities but decide they want bigger and better, look at Barefield and Clarecastle they decided that 1 pitch wasn't good enough for them so they built complexes but ignored the main sports and both clubs are struggling now.

In my opinion more work should be put into getting children starting to play and keeping teenagers playing rather than the constant need to develop facilities.

Using Eire Og as an example, last Friday they ran a talent show in the Queen's, looking at facebook a lot of time and effort went into it by lots of people and it looks like it was a great night, but after all the expenses are taken into account for running the night I wonder how much actual profit was made and how much will go back into the club?Would as much money have been made just by asking the businesses involved to sponsor an event in the club house or a set of jerseys?

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

Does every club need an astro turf pitch with flood lights for example?

Years ago every second club had a squash court now the fad seems to be astroturf soccer pitches that need to be ran every night to break even. Lots of clubs have fine facilities but decide they want bigger and better, look at Barefield and Clarecastle they decided that 1 pitch wasn't good enough for them so they built complexes but ignored the main sports and both clubs are struggling now.

In my opinion more work should be put into getting children starting to play and keeping teenagers playing rather than the constant need to develop facilities.

Using Eire Og as an example, last Friday they ran a talent show in the Queen's, looking at facebook a lot of time and effort went into it by lots of people and it looks like it was a great night, but after all the expenses are taken into account for running the night I wonder how much actual profit was made and how much will go back into the club?Would as much money have been made just by asking the businesses involved to sponsor an event in the club house or a set of jerseys?

You make a fair point nut Local businesses can be burnt by being asked over and over again with little gain except for good will. If Eire Og ran a night in town and it broke even, but the gain is more involvement with the community and more 'townies' feeling part of a club then it may have achieved it's goal.

Kilmaley ran a lip sync night a while back that was a financial success and a community success. Granted it took massive organisation and commitment but the legacy is both financial and morale (and fumes from the chainsaws...)

Clarecastle are struggling but you may put that down to some extent that Ballyea are successful. St. Josephs were an intermediate team for year untill that outstanding team came alone. They development of the population donut outside Ennis will bring them back in time.

Astro turf pitches are brilliant for skills, small kids and of course giving the option to preserve pitches in bad weather. So there is more to this then empire building.

Clareman

The Kilmaley fundraiser was brilliant last year, I was actually at it, it was a great example of 2 clubs (GAA and Camoige) coming together to run a great night to collect money.

BloodyBill

Clareman wrote: »

The Kilmaley fundraiser was brilliant last year, I was actually at it, it was a great example of 2 clubs (GAA and Camoige) coming together to run a great night to collect money.

Clare clubs are in the Ha'penny place when it comes to finance. The only one I can think of with a proper commercial plan is Wolf Tones and they have a regular 7 day a week pub. But then are dire off field . There are clubs and not just in Dublin with facilities Clare clubs can only dream of. But then as posters say, maybe all these facilities sidetrack the club from the players and winning trophies.

Marty Xavier

Well my comment that the whole Eire Og grounds should be looked at has certainly taken legs it seems I'm advocating for Eire Og to spend millions.

Clarecastle and Barefield both moved out of necessity, anyone that argues that staying in Roslevan and Clareabbey would have been good moves are clearly mad. Those clubs have hundreds of players, sometimes in Gurteen there could be 3 or 4 groups training at the same time with a full match going on in one of the fields and players using the gym.
That would not be possible in Roslevan where there was one pitch with a set of dressing rooms.
Now Gurteen is a state of the art facility with astro pitches, gyms that are being used by both the Panthers and the Quin team for basketball (who between them have 300 registered basketball players) , there is a school basketball tournament there next week, Barefield might be struggling at senior level but the work going on underage is huge. They will be a force to reckon with in the future.

Clareman

A lot of clubs in Clare have pitches/facilities from the 70s/80s, it's not that long ago that Tulla was hosting league matches, it's hardly up to spec to host a big club game now. Instead of evolving what the club has now most clubs are looking to develop a huge solution. Barefield example spotted that Roselevin wasn't going to be good enough for their parish so they went off and developed 3 pitches, astro turf, changing rooms and hall, my question would be was all that needed or could another pitch for use for juvenile or training purposes? Kilmaley had pitch that needed to be improved, they went off and built 2 pitches, astro turf, training area and club house while retaining their existing pitch, this cost them €1.75 million up until 2014 and I don't know if it's finished yet http://www.kilmaleygaa.ie/images/Downloads/A4-A5%20Brochure.pdf

My question, does a club like Kilmaley, with only hurling and camoige being played, need to spend ~€2 million on facilities? I'm not having a pop at Kilmaley, I'm sure the developments in Barefield and Clarecastle cost a lot more it's just I couldn't find a set of accounts for those developments, assuming they both spend around the €2 million mark as well, that's €6 million spent on GAA facilities within 10 miles of Cusack Park.

Clareman

Marty Xavier wrote: »

Well my comment that the whole Eire Og grounds should be looked at has certainly taken legs it seems I'm advocating for Eire Og to spend millions.

Clarecastle and Barefield both moved out of necessity, anyone that argues that staying in Roslevan and Clareabbey would have been good moves are clearly mad. Those clubs have hundreds of players, sometimes in Gurteen there could be 3 or 4 groups training at the same time with a full match going on in one of the fields and players using the gym.
That would not be possible in Roslevan where there was one pitch with a set of dressing rooms.
Now Gurteen is a state of the art facility with astro pitches, gyms that are being used by both the Panthers and the Quin team for basketball (who between them have 300 registered basketball players) , there is a school basketball tournament there next week, Barefield might be struggling at senior level but the work going on underage is huge. They will be a force to reckon with in the future.

Fair play to Barefield for developing for Basketball :D:D

My arguement would be that they didn't have to move completely, why not have a second location or a training pitch? Having only 1 pitch shouldn't really impact a lot of clubs, for example Ennis Rugby would have a lot more underage players than most individual local clubs and they manage.

I think Eire Og have done very well to stay where they are, it would have been very easy for them to go build a big green field site somewhere and spend millions on it.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

A lot of clubs in Clare have pitches/facilities from the 70s/80s, it's not that long ago that Tulla was hosting league matches, it's hardly up to spec to host a big club game now. Instead of evolving what the club has now most clubs are looking to develop a huge solution. Barefield example spotted that Roselevin wasn't going to be good enough for their parish so they went off and developed 3 pitches, astro turf, changing rooms and hall, my question would be was all that needed or could another pitch for use for juvenile or training purposes? Kilmaley had pitch that needed to be improved, they went off and built 2 pitches, astro turf, training area and club house while retaining their existing pitch, this cost them €1.75 million up until 2014 and I don't know if it's finished yet http://www.kilmaleygaa.ie/images/Downloads/A4-A5%20Brochure.pdf

My question, does a club like Kilmaley, with only hurling and camoige being played, need to spend ~€2 million on facilities? I'm not having a pop at Kilmaley, I'm sure the developments in Barefield and Clarecastle cost a lot more it's just I couldn't find a set of accounts for those developments, assuming they both spend around the €2 million mark as well, that's €6 million spent on GAA facilities within 10 miles of Cusack Park.

The answer is Clubs like Kilmaley do need to move forwards. A pitch and dressing rooms built in late 80's for one adult team and underage teams that started at u12 is no longer viable.

The prices is north of 2 million at this stage. Using grants effectively from Sports Capital, GAA, Clare LDC and make it possible. These don't give grants without a full set of club accounts. But ultimately, it's up to the local area to raise a large proportion of the funds.

The key objectives were 2 pitches, dressing rooms, small astro and of course find a suitable site and to remain competitive on the field all Done. What remains isn't essential but will be done in time.

Clareman

Figerty wrote: »

The answer is Clubs like Kilmaley do need to move forwards. A pitch and dressing rooms built in late 80's for one adult team and underage teams that started at u12 is no longer viable.

The prices is north of 2 million at this stage. Using grants effectively from Sports Capital, GAA, Clare LDC and make it possible. These don't give grants without a full set of club accounts. But ultimately, it's up to the local area to raise a large proportion of the funds.

The key objectives were 2 pitches, dressing rooms, small astro and of course find a suitable site and to remain competitive on the field all Done. What remains isn't essential but will be done in time.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Kilmaley still have access to their old pitch, a pitch at the back of the school and a hall? I seem to remember talk of a gym but I think that might be just a set of weights in a garage somewhere. That's an awful lot of facilities for a hurling and camoige club. I see from that brochure that local people are being asked to donate €1,500 to help fund it and that's outside of event like the Lip Sync challenge.

Pogue eile

Clareman wrote: »

In my opinion more work should be put into getting children starting to play and keeping teenagers playing rather than the constant need to develop facilities.

Surely the two are not mutually exclusive, the more people you have playing the more facilities you need?

Clareman

Pogue eile wrote: »

Surely the two are not mutually exclusive, the more people you have playing the more facilities you need?

Yeah, the more teams the more facilities, but a lot of teams will be doing gym or hall work, for example I know that a lot of under age teams play in local halls when the weather isn't great or they have underage training in school pitches when the main pitch is booked.

It's great that the GAA has such great facilities but not every club has to keep up with the Jones and have state of the art

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The Liam O'Connor Cup, for inter-county U20 Football teams, will get underway on Saturday 4th January, when Clare take on Limerick at a Clare venue.

On Saturday 11th January, Clare will play Offaly and will conclude with a match against Wicklow on January 18th.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Kilmaley still have access to their old pitch, a pitch at the back of the school and a hall? I seem to remember talk of a gym but I think that might be just a set of weights in a garage somewhere. That's an awful lot of facilities for a hurling and camoige club. I see from that brochure that local people are being asked to donate €1,500 to help fund it and that's outside of event like the Lip Sync challenge.

That fundraising drive finished a few years ago. What is up on the web is out of date. That level of donation is to allow tax relief on the donation once it's over a certain level per annum. This is a tax efficiency matter.

Yes, the old field gets used. The School field is rarely used as it's a soccer size field. You do realise the number of teams in any Senior club. Peak load is from March to September and from 6pm to 10pm 5 evenings a week. There is a limited amount of traffic any pitch can take. Sandbased pitches need more feeding and maintenance... like Caherlohan doesn't get...

Clareman

I'm not saying that there's not a need for facilities but is there need for such big "state of the art" facilities, for example do all the pitches need to be sandbased if they require more feeding and maintenance, if the peak need is for 20 hours a week for 6 months of the year surely there isn't a need for a multi-million euro investment in every parish?

Taking Kilmaley as the example, they badly needed more facilities, 1 substandard pitch wasn't enough for a parish it's size with such a large player base and 2 clubs (hurling and camoige), they could have developed another pitch and retained the old pitch as a juvenile pitch, I believe there is 3 soccer clubs in Kilmaley so I can't imagine it would be difficult to get a suitable pitch. Instead of that, they decided to go for a huge development with multiple pitches, clubhouse, stand, gym etc., outside of the need to keep up with the likes of Barefield and Clarecastle I can't see the value in such a large development.

Pogue eile

Clareman wrote: »

Yeah, the more teams the more facilities, but a lot of teams will be doing gym or hall work, for example I know that a lot of under age teams play in local halls when the weather isn't great or they have underage training in school pitches when the main pitch is booked.

It's great that the GAA has such great facilities but not every club has to keep up with the Jones and have state of the art

Clareman wrote: »

I'm not saying that there's not a need for facilities but is there need for such big "state of the art" facilities, for example do all the pitches need to be sandbased if they require more feeding and maintenance, if the peak need is for 20 hours a week for 6 months of the year surely there isn't a need for a multi-million euro investment in every parish?

I guess its all about balance and each club is a different case, my own club have in recent years accquired a second field and are now just after completing a large community centre developments in the hurling grounds and it was badly neeeded. Last year between juvenile, adult and camogie we fielded 26 teams, believe me both pitches will see lots of action.

Both our pitches are sandbased for the last 3 years, in the preceeding 18 months we had 5 senior players suffer cruciate injuries as the pitch was like a rock, not a single cruciate done since. As I said previously it's a case by case situation and of course you are correct in that some clubs did/will go overboard as its the 'in thing' and there are plenty of examples all over the country of clubs that had to be bailed out and are now effictively owned by Croke Park.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

I'm not saying that there's not a need for facilities but is there need for such big "state of the art" facilities, for example do all the pitches need to be sandbased if they require more feeding and maintenance, if the peak need is for 20 hours a week for 6 months of the year surely there isn't a need for a multi-million euro investment in every parish?

Taking Kilmaley as the example, they badly needed more facilities, 1 substandard pitch wasn't enough for a parish it's size with such a large player base and 2 clubs (hurling and camoige), they could have developed another pitch and retained the old pitch as a juvenile pitch, I believe there is 3 soccer clubs in Kilmaley so I can't imagine it would be difficult to get a suitable pitch. Instead of that, they decided to go for a huge development with multiple pitches, clubhouse, stand, gym etc., outside of the need to keep up with the likes of Barefield and Clarecastle I can't see the value in such a large development.

I'm sorry, but your imagination and understanding is so far off it's not even funny. You really don't know the detail. It's this sort of (and I don't use the word in a derogratory way) ignorance of playing fields and ground that clubs have to overcome.
You also don't understand how this project was scoped out, costed and approached.

This wasn't 3 lads leaning against a gate, you should also look beyond the GAA fields and look at the other projects completed. Creche, day care centre, residential homes for the elderly and more. Have a think about that.

It has to be sand-based in Kilmaley and almost all of Clare, anyone who knows anything about land in west Clare will tell that below the four inches of top soil is mud. Mud doesn't soak. Any club not putting in a sand-based pitch is absolutely putting money down the drain. The soccer clubs do their own thing. Only one has access to a pitch locally.
Ruan is probably the only natural pitch in the Hurling part of Clare.

You still don't seem to realise that All three pitches are used all the time in the summer. This was forecast 10 years ago based on analysis of the population data on the census. Everything that has been done has been looking to the future.

You also know soccer teams are transient,., Kilmaley Fern Celtic is based in Ballyea.

I think you need to start looking a lot deeper at what clubs have done than perceived empire building. These projects are with a 40 year plan, 40 years or less from now the requirements will change again.

Clareman

Figerty wrote: »

I'm sorry, but your imagination and understanding is so far off it's not even funny. You really don't know the detail. It's this sort of (and I don't use the word in a derogratory way) ignorance of playing fields and ground that clubs have to overcome.
You also don't understand how this project was scoped out, costed and approached.

This wasn't 3 lads leaning against a gate, you should also look beyond the GAA fields and look at the other projects completed. Creche, day care centre, residential homes for the elderly and more. Have a think about that.

It has to be sand-based in Kilmaley and almost all of Clare, anyone who knows anything about land in west Clare will tell that below the four inches of top soil is mud. Mud doesn't soak. Any club not putting in a sand-based pitch is absolutely putting money down the drain. The soccer clubs do their own thing. Only one has access to a pitch locally.
Ruan is probably the only natural pitch in the Hurling part of Clare.

You still don't seem to realise that All three pitches are used all the time in the summer. This was forecast 10 years ago based on analysis of the population data on the census. Everything that has been done has been looking to the future.

You also know soccer teams are transient,., Kilmaley Fern Celtic is based in Ballyea.

I think you need to start looking a lot deeper at what clubs have done than perceived empire building. These projects are with a 40 year plan, 40 years or less from now the requirements will change again.

I know a lot about that project, especially about the vested interests behind where the pitch was located, wasnt there a "natural" pitch available a lot closer to town but a few prominent club members went for the pitch to be where it is. The GAA really shouldn't be taking aby credit for the great work that Kilmaley Meitheal have put in to facilties in Kilmaley.

caddy16

Clareman wrote: »

I know a lot about that project, especially about the vested interests behind where the pitch was located, wasnt there a "natural" pitch available a lot closer to town but a few prominent club members went for the pitch to be where it is. The GAA really shouldn't be taking aby credit for the great work that Kilmaley Meitheal have put in to facilties in Kilmaley.

I don't think you do to be honest because there are a number of inaccuracies in what you have said. Also if you did know as much as you claim you would realise there is a large overlap on both committees. Kilmaley is a blue print for how developments should be completed, community lead not people on ego trips as you have claimed.

Figerty

Clareman wrote: »

I know a lot about that project, especially about the vested interests behind where the pitch was located, wasnt there a "natural" pitch available a lot closer to town but a few prominent club members went for the pitch to be where it is. The GAA really shouldn't be taking aby credit for the great work that Kilmaley Meitheal have put in to facilties in Kilmaley.

100% wrong. ill informed and incorrect.
Firstly, you probably know who I am.
I contacted and walked the natural pitch with the engineer who laid the pitches. It could have been developed. There is an report from that engineer on the site somewhere.

1. The ground is not natural, and sand based pitches would have had to have been built. We found spings, boggy areas and some decent soil.
2. The pitch construction costs would have be about the same. Cut and fill was different but only marginally.
3. The road access was flagged at council level. The road was not capable of the traffic and would have had be widened. This would have involved nuemerous land owners, and would have cost more than the pitches and site costs. This was a major issue.
4. The land was outside the development area. The new pitches were inside meaning planning was more or less assured once conditions were met.
5. The location was not central, but was an option and opened discussion on land that wasn't previously available. the new area is central.

All this was discussed at club level, AGMs and also a development meetings. It was asked and answered honestly. Pub talk is different.

You are also wrong about Metiheal.
The GAA clubs provided land as the contribution for the development for Meitheal. The Astro Turf an Playground are a GAA/Meitheal development and is all above board an cleared at all levels, including Clare GAA, Leader and the Sports Capital development bodies. It clears it's cost each year, and the land cost won't be recovered. It's not intended to.

Again, all this was out in the open and compliant to regulations.

The community built the other facilities and were supported by the GAA club. And in the main it's same people who were drivers of both developments.

There is now a facility in place with Dressing rooms, Pitches, Astro turf, a local playground access roads completed, lighting, footpaths, etc. with a much local labour as possible used where regulations allowed. What remains to be done is possible without massive debt.

BnB

I can't actually believe what I am reading from your here Clareman. Are you honestly having a go at Kilmaley and other clubs for being bold and ambitious enough to go out and develop top class facilities...!!!

Clareman

BnB wrote: »

I can't actually believe what I am reading from your here Clareman. Are you honestly having a go at Kilmaley and other clubs for being bold and ambitious enough to go out and develop top class facilities...!!!

I think I'm in the minority in this 1 and can see how I'm wrong, but I don't see the need for clubs to be building huge "state of the art" facilities when smaller more sensible developments could suit their needs. Every club seems hell bent on having loads of pitches in 1 location with 1 pitch "the same size as Croke Park". Around 10 miles of Ennis alone I can think of 3 pitches in Barefield, 3 pitches in Clarecastle, 1 pitch in Eire Og, 1 pitch in the Banner, 3 pitches in Kilmaley, 1 pitch in Ballyea, 1 pitch in Lissycasey, 2 pitches in Inagh/Kilnamona. They are all pitches owned directly by the clubs, outside of that most schools have pitches that are unused in the summer and there's the likes of Lees Road and the Fairgreen (not that I've ever see hurling/football there) not to mention Clareabbey. Connected to all those pitches there's dressing rooms, a lot have all weather pitches and some have clubhouses.

An awful lot of money has gone into all those facilities and each parish/club can be proud to have those facilities but my arguement would be that instead of a)having all the resources in 1 central location or b) having loads of "big" "small" developments, that a few "centers of excellence" like Caherlohan could be built around the place, Caherlohan has cost €5 million, I'm sure the developments in Kilmaley, Barefield and Clarecastle combined cost a lot more than that.

Look it's great that these facilities are there and fair play for the different clubs for doing it, I'll continue to throw my few euro into the buckets when I pass them and will visit them for matches but I need convincing that all these clubs need all these facilities.