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Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

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    #692
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    So below is Fastnet rock, complete with lighthouse.

    If you put a lighthouse on Rockall, with a permanent staff, would that meet the requirements for "habitation" I wonder?

    Fastnet_Carraig_Aonair.jpg
    I cannot see why not. Nobody would say the Fastnet rock is not habitable.


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    #693
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,942 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    recedite wrote: »
    You can yeah, if you own the rock. A rock counts as an island if it is above water at high tide.
    https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part2.htm

    Their ownership is contested and it is a long long time since the UK was a law onto itself.


    Even EU countries don't give up their entire territorial waters to the EU.
    I think its normal to retain a 6 mile limit for local fishing boats (I'm open to correction on the exact rules) and then allow other EU trawlers into the outer 6 miles of their 12 mile territorial limit, and also the other EU trawlers would be free to fish in the rest of the EEZ of the country in question.

    The UK boarding Irish trawlers fishing in their waters under EU agreements would never happen unless they were breaking some other supplementary law.


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    #694
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And still waiting on whether you think the UK will be recognising the sizeable island China have developed, fully under their control?
    Does it really matter what the UK says about that?
    What really matters is whether China can prevent the US fleet from sailing past the islands, with the crew mooning at the Chinese from the deck.


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    #695
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It needs to be self sustaining to be considered an island. A lighthouse being supplied by a ship ...

    None of our islands are self sustaining if you use that definition, they are all supplied by ship.


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    #696
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    janfebmar wrote: »
    None of our islands are self sustaining if you use that definition, they are all supplied by ship.


    Not for the maintaining of life, luxuries yes.


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    #697
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,158 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    janfebmar wrote: »
    None of our islands are self sustaining if you use that definition, they are all supplied by ship.

    NONE of them? i'm pretty certain quite a few of them managed to support a population and probably still could. I dont remember Peig Sayers mentioning a supply ship.


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    #698
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The other point worth remembering is that the UK really can't afford to annoy the EU right now.

    The UK have the fourth most powerful navy in the world (after the USA, China, Russia), and have had enough of the EU.


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    #699
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    NONE of them? i'm pretty certain quite a few of them managed to support a population and probably still could. I dont remember Peig Sayers mentioning a supply ship.

    Her stay was temporary, just like human habitation of Rockall to date.


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    #700
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    The UK have the fourth most powerful navy in the world (after the USA, China, Russia), and have had enough of the EU.

    Let's see them try to keep that with a shrinking economy. They had enough of the EU? That must be why they keep begging them for extensions.


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    #701
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    NONE of them? i'm pretty certain quite a few of them managed to support a population and probably still could. I dont remember Peig Sayers mentioning a supply ship.

    Her stay was temporary, just like human inhabitation of Rockall to date. Nowadays whatever of our islands are inhabited are supplied by ship.


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    #702
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    recedite wrote: »
    Does it really matter what the UK says about that?


    I refer to the well established 'What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander' legal precedent. :pac:




    recedite wrote: »
    What matters is whether China can prevent the US fleet from sailing past the islands, with the crew mooning at the Chinese from the deck.


    From my extensive understanding of sailors the Chinese sailors might quite enjoy that.


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    #703
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Let's see them try to keep that with a shrinking economy.

    Shrinking economy? They still have half the unemployment rate of the eurozone.


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    #704
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,942 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Her stay was temporary, just like human habitation of Rockall to date.

    So is yours on earth itself. But while you are here you can survive as mankind did long before supply ships.

    Rockall cannot sustain human life...end of discussion.


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    #705
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not for the maintaining of life, luxuries yes.
    So you are saying for example that the Fastnet rock was never "inhabited"? Tell that to the lighthouse keepers who used to live there.


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    #706
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Shrinking economy? They still have half the unemployment rate of the eurozone.

    The Eurozone isn't a country but compare to Eurozone countries they have the slowest growing economy. Now they're begging for a trade deal from the EU. Not to mention the Trump factor....


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    #707
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,942 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The other point worth remembering is that the UK really can't afford to annoy the EU right now.

    What's the bets Jan counters this with a veiled threat to the EU on behalf of Britiain...oops...she is way ahead of me! :)


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    #708
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The Eurozone isn't a country but compare to Eurozone countries they have the slowest growing economy. Now they're begging for a trade deal from the EU. Not to mention the Trump factor....
    Trump is doing a great job in America . I doubt he has enough time for Rockall unless his Mum was a fan .


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    #709
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    blinding wrote: »
    Trump is doing a great job in America . I doubt he has enough time for Rockall unless his Mum was a fan .

    Yes he does indeed! He's even promised a deal to the Uk, in between attending Sinn Fein rallies.....

    ?width=591&version=2283615


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    #710
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,158 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Her stay was temporary, just like human inhabitation of Rockall to date. Nowadays whatever of our islands are inhabited are supplied by ship.

    everybodies stay is temporary. Life is like that. And our islands are supplied by ship by twice. People could live on them independently and did for hundreds of years.


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    #711
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Her stay was temporary, just like human habitation of Rockall to date.


    Damn it. Well played Janfebmar, I think you're the only one realising this is after hours and taking the piss is de rigueur.


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    #712
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The UK boarding Irish trawlers fishing in their waters under EU agreements would never happen unless they were breaking some other supplementary law.
    This point has already come up in a court, and we were the "bad neighbours", not them.
    6 of the 12 miles is an EU entitlement. The other 6 is a gift.
    Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Michael Creed confirmed this morning that these were the first two vessels detained by the Defence Forces since a Supreme Court ruling in 2016 which found a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ called voisinage had no legal standing.
    Voisinage, roughly translated as “neighbourliness”, allows fishing vessels registered in Northern Ireland to fish from 0-6 nautical miles up to Irish coasts, and vice versa.
    The arrangement was brought to the Supreme Court which ruled in 2016 that despite Ireland having signed up to the arrangement as part of the London Fisheries Convention (1964), there were no provisions for it in Irish law.
    Irish vessels, however, are still permitted to fish in the 0-6 nautical miles around Northern Ireland and Great Britain.


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    #713
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    recedite wrote: »
    This point has already come up in a court, and we were the "bad neighbours", not them.
    6 of the 12 miles is an EU entitlement. The other 6 is a gift.

    I agree that that was a bad move. You won't hear any defence of it from me.


  • Options
    #714
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    recedite wrote: »
    This point has already come up in a court, and we were the "bad neighbours", not them.
    6 of the 12 miles is an EU entitlement. The other 6 is a gift.
    Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Michael Creed confirmed this morning that these were the first two vessels detained by the Defence Forces since a Supreme Court ruling in 2016 which found a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ called voisinage had no legal standing.
    Voisinage, roughly translated as “neighbourliness”, allows fishing vessels registered in Northern Ireland to fish from 0-6 nautical miles up to Irish coasts, and vice versa.
    The arrangement was brought to the Supreme Court which ruled in 2016 that despite Ireland having signed up to the arrangement as part of the London Fisheries Convention (1964), there were no provisions for it in Irish law.
    Irish vessels, however, are still permitted to fish in the 0-6 nautical miles around Northern Ireland and Great Britain.





    Isn't Rockall considered part of Scotland by the Scots. Therefore, are the Scots breaking the Gentleman's agreement now? :eek:


  • Options
    #715
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Isn't Rockall considered part of Scotland by the Scots. Therefore, are the Scots breaking the Gentleman's agreement now? :eek:
    That's a fair point, except does a gentleman's agreement still stand if one of the gentlemen involved has already broken it?
    And what distance from Rockall are the Scots threatening the enforcement action, is it within 6 miles or 12 miles?


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    #716
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    recedite wrote: »
    That's a fair point, except does a gentleman's agreement still stand if one of the gentlemen involved has already broken it?


    They kissed and made up after that, AFAIK, and back to fishing in the relative waters.


    recedite wrote: »
    And what distance from Rockall are the Scots threatening the enforcement action, is it within 6 miles or 12 miles?


    I'd only heard about them complaining about the 12 mile limit, but shouldn't it even be allowed within the 0-6 miles regardless IF they claim Rockall is part of Scotland?


  • Options
    #717
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,942 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    recedite wrote: »
    This point has already come up in a court, and we were the "bad neighbours", not them.
    6 of the 12 miles is an EU entitlement. The other 6 is a gift.

    What is your point about that exactly?
    There was a gentleman's agreement that had no footing in law. Obviously a complaint was made and the Irish had to respond to it.

    The Rockall situation is covered by law. UN and EU.


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    #718
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    blinding wrote: »
    Trump is doing a great job in America . I doubt he has enough time for Rockall unless his Mum was a fan .

    You mean his SCOTTISH mother.


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    #719
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    You mean his SCOTTISH mother.
    Yeah . How many Mums has he got ?;)


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    #720
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    You mean his SCOTTISH mother.


    Although, didn't he claim she was German at one stage. But, if Trump said today was Thursday I'd still check the calendar.


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    #721
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    . But, if Trump said today was Thursday I'd still check the calendar.

    Your memory that bad you never know the day of the week it is? At least Trump could remember to tell Leo and the world that the US-UK special relationship was the greatest alliance the world had ever seen. Francis thought that was the Libya-Ira alliance. Leo though the world's greatest alliance was between him and Kylie Minogue because he wrote a letter to her.


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