Hansons Method

Duanington

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910385#Comment_121910385

You chose the plan for a reason, that logical reason still exists and it sounds like you're still onboard with it.

In my experience, people who deviate from this particular plan tend to struggle a little on race day and then blame the plan that they didn't stick to !

I wouldn't go over on the steady long run, that's a tough, tough run at the end of a tough week, as someone else has pointed out, these weeks have you right on the edge for a sustained period of time, there's nothing to be gained from extending right into the red. You can take great confidence from hitting those sessions week after week, we tend to obsess too much about hitting magical\mystical numbers on the long run, its amazing really when you think about it.

I think someone mentioned it on this thread before but if your focus is on the length of the long run then you're possibly missing the point of the structure of the plan, not only do you not need 30k, its counter productive given the nature of that structure

Stick to it, trust your training

PaulieC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121915647#Comment_121915647

I've been thinking about it and I think the reason for the anxiety is possibly because I don't feel as tired as I think I should or thought I would. The first 10-12 weeks I felt constantly tired and that felt like the way it was supposed to with this plan and the focus on cumulative fatigue. However, the past couple of weeks I feel a lot less tired. However, with a 3x2m last night and a 16k tempo tomorrow and 27k steady on Sunday, I will revisit and see if I still feel like this.

TheRef

I've only done Hanson once, and that was on my third marathon (last year). Looking back, regardless of what I think of the long run tapping out at 27k, I'd be of the mind that you've followed the plan so far and you shouldn't start messing with it 4 weeks out.

The only advice I would offer at this stage is see the plan out but be careful of the 10 day taper. I read loads that suggested my legs would feel fine on the day, but they didn't. I think that's ultimately what got me, not the lack of distance in my long runs. Hopefully it won't be an issue for you.

Murph_D

Echoing the others' comments - no need to pimp the plan. If anything it's about protecting the niggle you've identified, close to race day.

The long runs are plenty long enough in my experience. They certainly did not contribute to any failure on my part to hit marathon goals. Getting the paces right for all the various types of runs - including the long runs - is a far more more important factor.

Good luck!

PaulieC

Regarding paces, I am pretty crap at those. I tend to bank pace, so my tempo runs, which were supposed to be at 4:30 were pretty uniformly 4:27, the 4:55 long runs were between 4:45 and 4:50 and the strength runs were 4:15 instead of 4:20.

Of those, the hardest runs I found were the tempos

PaulieC

The last full week before the "taper" starts went off without a hitch. Easy Monday, strength Tuesday (3 x 3.2k, 4:15 pace), some physio Wednesday, tempo Thursday (16k, 4:28 pace), easy Friday, easy Saturday with some returning niggles and 28k long run on Sunday (4:42 with last 5k closer to MP).

Was pretty tired on Saturday, but chilled out all day and pretty ready for Sunday. That run was comparatively easy, I kept having to pull back and even at that I was over 10 seconds per km too fast. Icing the ankle after every run and back on anti inflammatories for a couple of days to try to resolve the ankle muscle issue, but feeling good overall. I am starting to think I can do this and that thought has me more worried than ever :-). Taper madness here we come, this time 3 weeks I'll be at the start line, I can't wait.

Murph_D

Boston is a tough course, and one of the things about it is the deceptively easy downhill start, gentle drop for six miles as far as I remember it. So it's easy to get carried away - super important to have a conservative start on that course. A brilliant race and experience, enjoy the taper and the pre-race.

Lazare

You seem like you've put in a really cracking block. You also seem to have the all important confidence and belief.

You'll smash it.

PaulieC

last 16k tempo before boston done today. I really hope the next ten days sees an amazing recovery 😂

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975108#Comment_121975108

Sounds normal to me! Enjoy that 10-day taper.

PaulieC

that's a hard no from me on the hansons method. Waited and waited for the legs to come good during the taper but they just felt dead the whole time. I knew from the first km today that it was going to be a struggle and it was. Legs had nothing from the start and got worse from there on. Trained for a 3:10, finished 3:37. Luckily it was a great day and the experience was fantastic, but HMM will be not considered again for future events.

TheRef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024498#Comment_122024498

That was my exact experience as well. Legs never recovered and I knew on the start line I wasn't in great shape. However, I managed to maintain the pace I trained for until about 32km, but knew I was on borrowed time from very early on.

Did you manage to get into the pace you trained for and faded or could you just not get up to speed?

What about the heat that seemed to be an issue - that play a part?

Lazare

Gutted to read that. Really thought you were going to smash it.

Sandwell

Sorry to hear that. You'd clearly put in the work and it's frustrating not to get the reward.

PaulieC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024929#Comment_122024929

looking back over the splits, I had two KMs that were on PMP and they were both in the first 5k. After 3k I knew I wasn't going to get anywhere near the goal so resigned myself to that and decided to just enjoy the run, but legs felt so tired I didn't even enjoy that. I did, however, enjoy the occasion, it was amazing from the time we got here. The heat was a possible factor but mainly the issue was the legs.

We live to fight another day. With a different plan 😂

Murph_D

Hmm, it sounds remarkably like my own Boston experience in 2016 which was similar weather wise. I’d used a P&D approach, and in retrospect had overtrained. Sorry it didn’t go well.

AlmightyCushion

That sucks. Do ye think it was the taper not being easy enough that your legs just didn't recover fully or was it the overall plan? At least your fitness should have improved by doing this plan so for your next race you should be in a better position. So, long term it should still be a positive even if it screwed you in the short term.

PaulieC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026417#Comment_122026417

It's hard to know to be honest. The last time I felt fresh and strong was the last long run. Felt great that day like I could run all day but since that my legs have been just sore and heavy and tired. The last week of taper was a real chore, easy runs felt hard. From here and other forums, I was kind of expecting that, but then also expecting the seemingly mythical bounce back 2-3 days before, but that never materialised.
Funny thing was, I was enjoying the training. Felt good for most of it, including the tiredness. I'm sure the only thing damaged here is a bruised ego. Looking forward to getting back to it, after a wee break of course

MrMacPhisto

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024498#Comment_122024498

Sorry to hear that Paulie.

As I said before, the taper on the Hanson Plan is short and not very refreshing. I have never got to the line thinking "I'm fresh". I normally reduce the last 10 mile tempo to a 10k tempo as I feel I would be better off with a little less fatigue and more recovery than any potential benefit of the few extra km.

Before completely blaming the taper and the plan, I think you should just bear in mind the conditions. Of all the people I followed on the day (from elites to 5hr runners), and reports that I have read about subsqeuently, not one had a good experience in terms of goal pace or negative splits etc. 20 degree heat and direct overhead sunshine is definitely not something I have experienced during my running in Ireland in the last 3 months. I would say I have ran 3 times without a base layer and gloves (2 of the times were races, and I still wore the gloves and a buff :D). If you trained here, I can safely assume you were not acclimatised to such conditions as you experienced in Boston.

You alone can decide if it is for you or not. But you have serious training banked, it's just a pity the race didn't work out. If I were you, I'd look for a half marathon within the next 4-6 weeks to see if you can bank a performance that you have earned.

Kudos for grinding it out on the day, the race looked fantastic on tv.

PaulieC

I was perhaps a tad hasty in my initial post race assessment 😂. There were, of course, mitigating circumstances, weather being one of them. However, the weather doesn't explain the lethargic feel of my legs in the first 3k. If the wheels fell off at the halfway point, then maybe. There was the travel, excessive walking on Saturday and Sunday and even before the start I had clocked up almost 10k steps.

I'll take stock and see what happens. I have got the major bug now so going to plan for Chicago in 2025. I enjoyed the HMM training sessions so might jump back in when the time comes. It's definitely easier to understand than the Daniels formula. Also might look at going down the paid coaching road, a number in the club are having significant success with that.