Hansons Method

Unknownability

Penultimate speed session done today, wasn't very enjoyable tired legs are really kicking in now.

3 sessions left and then the big day.

Unknownability

Hanson delivered again, was aiming for sub 3'10 and got a 3'02.

That was with circa 70-80% of the plan adhered to due to socialising & general idiocy and testing positive for Covid the week of the race.

Trust the plan.

Unthought Known

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119728355#Comment_119728355

Congratulations, an amazing time! How did you feel in the last 10 miles? Did you feel that Hansons helped you keep pushing on tired legs?

That's a big gain on your target time. What did you set out for in the first few miles?

Congrats again, really impressive! I take it you're looking at sub-3 next?

Unknownability

Thank you.

I felt really strong throughout the entire race bar a 3 or 4 minute period.

I set off behind the 3'05 pacer and caught up with them by mile 3 and then I literally just sat within 10 feet of them until we crossed mile 18. They were like robots within 5 seconds of the desired pace every mile.

When we got to 10m I knew I was going to get my desired goal of a Boston time and was very happy with heart rate which was around 151 (slightly higher than usual which was the case all week due to covid).

We got to Mile 18 and unconsciously found myself pulling away. I ran mile 19 & 20 @6'30 and that's when I had the period of doubt. I had kicked too early and didn't think I'd be able to hold that pace so went back to 6'50 - 7'05 for the last 10k. So those two fast miles gave me a slightly negative split of 90 seconds or so.

I had thoughts about going sub 3 for a few minutes but having only done two marathons previously I have this fear of blowing up and not finishing and just wanting to enjoy the race with high 5's and stuff.

Looking back if I feel if I'd ran with the 3hr pacer I would've got it but I wouldn't have enjoyed it worrying if I was going to blow up.

Next goal is the natural step of sub 3, I'm in the London and Berlin lotteries so if I get either that will be it and then in 2024 hopefully that time gets me into Boston.

I've never really raced any other distance, I've done one 5k a few years ago and then two half marathons which I didn't really race. Like I got my half marathon PB in the marathon So might do some of them next.

Having used Hanson twice I first trained for a 3'15 got 3'10 and now 3'05 and got 3'02. I'll definitely use it again and try to get my adherence to the plan up to around 90-95%.

Sandwell

I've followed two Hansons plans this year, one for a half and one for a full marathon. In both cases they've taken me exactly to my goal time while feeling relatively strong and comfortable in doing so. I followed the plans fairly closely but did adapt them to fit in club interval sessions on Tuesdays (which syncs neatly with the plan structure) and to add in the odd race here and there.

The key session is undoubtedly the long Thursday tempo at goal pace while running on tired legs from Tuesday's intervals. You internalise race pace so well that even when tiring during the latter stages of the marathon the pace doesn't really fall off.

I used Luke Humphreys own race equivalency calculator at the start of each cycle and plugged in a recent 5k time (for the half) and then the half time for the full. I suppose in some ways these predicted times are a self-fulfilling prophecy as you train weekly at that pace for several months. That said, the predictor only suggests what you'd be capable of if you trained specifically for a particular distance. The plans then enable you to do just that.

As for the perennial question of the feasibility of that 16 mile limit on the long run, while I did go further than that on two occasions during the marathon block, I don't believe it made any difference to my performance. As I mentioned above, I did so just to get some experience of spending longer that two hours on my feet since I hadn't run a marathon in years. If following the plan again for a marathon next year I'd have no hesitation whatsoever at topping out at 16. Sixteen miles at MP+40 on tired legs is a very tough session and really does prepare you specifically for the later stages of a marathon.

rooneyjm

Finally cracked sub 3 on Sunday (2.58.20). This year I used no plans just ran all my runs under 140 bpm. No speed work no tempos. Did the Frank Duffy fast and pb’ed. Then pb’ed the HM 1.23.40.

Not sexy and probably wouldn’t sell many books but lots and lots of easy miles seems to work.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119819923#Comment_119819923

Not very Hanson related but well done! Where is 140 bpm in relation to your max or your HR reserve?

rooneyjm

I posted here previously and used Hanson twice before. More of an update than anything.

Not sure to be honest. It came from 185, max heart rate, minus my age.

Unknownability

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119825788#Comment_119825788

Was it a maffatone (sic) style training plan you used? How did you decide what distances to run?

rooneyjm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826012#Comment_119826012

Started watching a few videos on YouTube as you do on MAF/ low heart rate training. A guy call Floris Gierman interviews people who have done well with it.

I wasn’t really feeling another Hanson plan and thought why not.

Started doing 50 miles a week in May for about 6 weeks, went on holidays, didn’t run. Came back an upped it to 60-65.

Why 60-65. Hanson tops out around there and in one of the interviews a guest mentioned for a sub 3 you should be averaging 67miles @ 8.00 min pace for the last 8 weeks before taper week.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119830725#Comment_119830725

Friend of mine ran a sub-3 for the first time at age 53 using the standard Hanson approach. No need to increase the mileage in my opinion, or at least not for a sub-3.

rooneyjm

well you can run less miles fast or more miles slow. either way you can get the adaption needed.

I’ve ran 3.01 with Hanson and 2.58 just running easy miles (7.50-9.00) and the latter is easier on the body, less risk of injury, resulted in more weight loss ( free speed). People get hung up on paces for sessions. At the end of the day it’s not important once you are getting the miles in.

I’ll definitely be using the easy miles route again. Race your races and enjoy the rest.

Murph_D

OK - that’s really interesting but are you sure you can pinpoint the difference to the easy miles? As this is a Hanson thread maybe it’s worth breaking it down a bit more. And just to play devils advocate, are you sure the Hanson paces you used previously were correct for your state of fitness? If they were too fast for instance that would have had a negative effect, and therefore easy miles (with maybe a neutral stimulus) would give you a better result. But in that case correct structured Hanson paces (positive stimulus) would have given you an even better result - all other things being equal of course - conditions, course profile, your state of preparation, sleep etc.

I mean you had a great result and hit the goal but I don’t see the connection with the easy miles other than they didn’t do you any harm. I love doing easy miles - lots of them - but I can’t agree that your result is solely down to ditching appropriately paced faster stuff.

What’s your longer marathon history?

Lazare

Just took delivery of the 2nd edition last week.

I'm really loving it so far. Every single stride and step we make in our training has purpose and meaning, or at least it should. What I love about the book is how well it educates you on what that purpose is.

I'm absolutely going to commit to it for Amsterdam.

I have one question (so far 😉) for veterans of the method.

I could search back through the thread but hey, opening up discussion is healthy.

For the Thursday tempo runs, the MP runs, the idea behind is to dial in and internalise that effort, to get the body familiar with running at that pace.

I read a post above from @Sandwell where he said that those sessions were key, and that they really did internalise that pace.

How are you determining what that pace is 15 weeks out though?

Are you running a predicted goal pace or a marathon effort?

If my current fitness suggests x pace, but my prediction for race day is y pace, should I run those sessions at x or y?

Sandwell

@Lazare Best of luck with Hansons. I started it again this week as it happens and I'm looking forward to getting stuck into it as I build for Berlin.

I took the MP from their own equivalence chart based on the time I had run in a recent half-marathon. I'm sure a 10k time or whatever would work just as well, in fact I'll be using a recent 10k PB this time around. It translated pretty much exactly to the time I ran on the day. It's worth mentioning that the pace felt hard in most of those sessions, harder than seemed realistic, and I was often a few seconds off the target average by the end of the session. Also, my heart rate was often a good bit higher than where it should be for marathon pace. I think you have to accept that you'll be running these sessions on tired legs, in the middle of the work week, and often in less than ideal weather conditions and allow for a bit of slippage.

I found that the 3 week repetition of the distance of those sessions generally led to the effort feeling a bit easier from week to week which was good for the confidence. Then you'd add another mile and it would feel impossible again! I always used the same route where possible, otherwise you'd be doubting yourself.

So to answer your question briefly I'd say trust the calculator and go with that. If it's anything like my experience then that pace will feel harder than "marathon effort" in training but will feel comfortable on the day (at least until the last 10k).

https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php

Lazare

That's a brilliant answer Sandwell.

I'm excited about taking it on now.

One thing I did learn alright from last year's DCM block was just as you said, MP feels a whole lot different on race day. So hopefully I won't lose heart when it inevitably feels tough on a Thursday morning 😊

Lazare

Interested to find out how people's target evolved or otherwise over the course of the program.

I ran my first Thurs tempo this week and it felt quite good, feels like my target is on point.

I struggled initially with the idea of running goal MP 16 weeks out, rather than current fitness but the logic of it now seems clear.

Is the idea that you should be able to feel comfortable at goal pace, at this stage, for six miles, and that in six weeks time it should feel comfy at 8 miles, and so on?

Interested to hear of others' experience with that. I'm more than willing to readjust the target if necessary.

I really love this plan. Having that feedback every Thursday is so fantastic.

Murph_D

I think that IS the idea, yes.

A runner like yourself with excellent base conditioning and realistic marathon target should be able to pull off the initial sessions easily enough. My own experience with this plan is that it gets harder as it goes on, because of the legendary so-called 'cumulative fatigue'. But you're always in control. When I did this plan the first couple of times I used to feel that the speed sessions were handy enough as I was coming from P&D with more aggressive speed. But I soon learned that the Thurs MP session, carried off two days after the speed/strength session, was the key to the whole thing (and of course the speed/strength sessions are contributing massively to that MP session and how it feels.).

Relentless and sometimes really, really hard, but absolutely targeted at dialling in marathon pace (whatever it turns out to be by the end) from the beginning.

A great approach. You can sign up with Luke H for a bit of online assistance during the plan, and maybe a few adjustments, but I honestly would not recommend that you do that the first one, two or three times around - the method is fine as originally designed.

It's actually made for a runner like you, and I think you'll respond brilliantly to it.

Lazare

Thank you very much D. Really nice of you to say all of that. 👍

Mitch Buchannon

Just jumping in on this thread.

I am also using Hanson's for the first time. I am two weeks into it at the moment..I feel I do well with structure, and like knowing exactly what I am supposed to do, how fast etc.

I have used HH plans (via the HH app) for the last few marathons and a couple of 50k's . I felt it was time for a change.

Running 6 days a week will be a step up for me but I will enjoy seeing how I compare this time round with a new plan.

Unthought Known

Jumping in with Hansons for the 3rd time, for Dublin. I previously used it for Manchester 2019 where I cracked 3:30 pretty comfortably, and Dublin 2022 where I crashed and burned from mile 21 going for 3:20, despite feeling like I nailed training. I used P&D for London '23 to finally go sub 3:20 and had that plan pinned on my fridge again for DCM, but I fancy a change so here we are again.

Lazare

How are things going for everyone?

I'm still loving it. It's tough, it's relentless, I'm dying for sleep every night but it's fantastic. Really enjoying it.

First 9m Tempo Thurs gone. Had a fair bit of apprehension Wed evening, especially after a slog of a strength session the previous day (4x 1.5m).

Nailed the pace though and felt comfortable throughout. Did random talk tests to check the effort and all good.

Target pace is 4:30km, adjusted from 4:23 at the start. Had a bump in the road with a hip/glute issue that meant missing a couple of weeks. Still ran (bar 4x prescribed consecutive rest days) but off plan and easy. So I reassessed my target, dropped from 3:05 to 3:10.

Tempos have been going well..

Mid July physio prescribed 4m - 4:29km average

7m - 4:34

8m - 4:30

(Skipped the following to race FD10)

8m - 4:30

9m - 4:30

Signs seem good based on that I think.

chabsey

Going ok for me....am totally wiped out by some of the sessions and my HR was all over the place for that tempo run but mainly it was high. I'll give it a couple more weeks before deciding my target time.

Sandwell

I'm nearly done. I have my last 16 mile steady run tomorrow and then it's just 4 sessions left before taper.

I ran a 75 min half in Tullamore last week, almost a 3 minute pb, so the plan has delivered already. That time points to a 2:36 marathon but I've been training for 2:38 (targeting 6 minute miles in the tempos) and I'm not going to get greedy at this stage.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061078#Comment_121061078

That's awesome man, fair play. What a half performance, off no taper too!

You're right not to get greedy, something I'm mentally battling with myself tbh, you're gonna smash it in Berlin.

Lazare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060920#Comment_121060920

How does right now compare to previous?

You smashed your 3:15 goal before with the method, are you feeling differently right now?

chabsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061303#Comment_121061303

Definitely harder this time. I checked back on my last use of Hanson's and my tempo runs to see how I did, I was hitting all my paces and in many cases was 5-10 seconds quicker for a good few KM of those runs. Not so this time, which is frustrating cause I've put in months of base work this time and never bothered before. I also missed a bunch of the sessions last time, and haven't missed one so far this time. I suppose it comes down to age, I'm 5 years older than last time and that's possibly just too much.

Murph_D

I wouldn't put it down to age - there's a massive difference between those two training targets! I'd say it's because you are now much closer to your maximum potential. The relative effort is greater.

Sandwell

Agree with @Murph_D. For what it's worth, I very rarely hit exact goal pace during the tempos. I'm usually 5-10 seconds off and I don't think I've ever been quicker than goal.

chabsey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121064324#Comment_121064324

Thanks, that's heartening to hear. After my 16km sweat-fest today my max HR increased, according to my watch anyway. Which was nice.