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Everest
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There never was a plan to recover the body from the mountain. Or am I misunderstanding?
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-dad-kevin-hynes-dies-16195414
That article is all jumbled up. It says that the search for Seamus will continue further down. Very badly written. If that quote is in any way accurate, I suspect it refers to the family's wishes should he be found at some point in the future.
But that's just guessing as it's written really poorly.0 -
Yurt! wrote:It's called the Hillary step because Hillary was the first to overcome it. Tenzing didn't have the technical ability to negotiate it, so Edmund used his alpine skills to get up and winched his partner up.Yurt! wrote:In fact, the whole controversy as to whether Hillary or Tenzing summited first was concocted and ran with by the newly independent India as a propaganda exercise (Tenzing was a Tibetan born in Nepal, but raised in India).
Where are you getting your story about the step?
Tenzing had more high high altitude experience than Ed.
Tenzing said he was born in Tengboche-Khumbu (although some claim he may have come from Tibet)and was raised in Thame just NW of Namche. He lived his later life in India.
Sherpas are a tribal trading people who have come from Tibet 450 years ago, but traded back and forwards over the "border" ever since until the Chinese annexation of Tibet placed restrictions on them.
The two climbers refused to say at the time and for years after to say who actually got to the summit first, and that's where jingoism stepped in with India claiming Tenzing and Brits saying Ed. It was embarrassing for the two, as it made no difference to them, as it was a joint effort.
It is now recognised that Tenzing stepped onto the summit just before Ed, but again a moot point.0 -
Watched a doc about it a number of months ago. Hillary was interviewed in London immediately afterwards and gave that account. Basically they reached the step and were unsure if it was wise to tackle it. Hillary decided to give it a stab as he was a decent Alpinist from his time in NZ (there's a distinction between Alpinist style climbing and simply climbing at altitude). He set ropes and brought up Tenzing.
Tenzing's parents were Tibetan if I recall correctly. Might have got it wrong how much of his life he spent in India, but certainly the Indian gov and press were pushing the line he got there first.
Edit: he spent much of his teens between Nepal and Darjeeling, eventually settling there when he was 19. Nepal and India share a more or less open border (even to this day) and Nepalese move freely into India.0 -
holliehobbie wrote: »Anyone else annoyed that Hillary's step is called that? If it's still there after the earthquake I think it should be renamed after Norgay Tenzing or both of their names should be used!
If that bothers you, does the fact that the mountains named after a man who never even saw it bother you?0 -
The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »No, but anyone who 'climbs' Everest using ropes, ladders, oxygen tanks, etc, put there by someone else, didn't really climb it. They just got a lift from someone else. Hillary and Tenzing climbed it. There no kudos at all for those taking a stroll up based on someone else's actual'climbing'. It's a joke to claim to have climbed it these days.
George Mallory had 20 Porter's and Sherpas help carry oxygen and food, suppose they didn't really climb it either.
It has been made easier but let's not pretend it's just a walk in the park. It's still extremely difficult climb.0 -
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You can have a lottery system for climbing Everest, but it should be done on the condition that you have previous proven experience of 6,000 7,000 and 8,000 metre summits. Also proven ability to climb certain grades and proven experience with ice picks and crampons.
Then you can enter a lottery.
You don't just get into a truck and drive it. You need a provisional for a car, then lessons, then a car licence, provisional for a truck, more lessons, then you get a truck licence. Same should apply for Everest. Though the Nepalese government would be losing out on some Everest permit money, they would make some of this up with permits for climbing at lower altitudes.0 -
https://twitter.com/EverestToday/status/1121083759665790976
Good article from the Beeb on the crowding at Everest and how it is putting lives in danger. It also touches on people stealing other peoples oxygen tanks from the stashes transported and laid by Sherpas in advance of their expeditions summit push
More here https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48401491If you imagine the summit of Mount Everest, you might picture a quiet, snowy peak far from civilisation.But a striking photo, taken by mountaineer Nirmal Purja, shows how the reality can be a lot more crowded. Mr Purja's photo has attracted attention around the world - amid the tragic news that seven climbers died on Everest in the past week.The picture gives a glimpse into the tough conditions facing climbers at the highest peak in the world.
Is it normal to see such long queues near the summit?
Yes - according to guides, this happens quite often during the climbing season.
"It's normally that crowded," says Mingma Sherpa, chairman of Seven Summits Treks, adding that climbers sometimes queue between 20 minutes, and 1.5 hours, in order to reach the summit.
It often depends on how long the window for suitable climbing weather is - because mountaineers need to avoid fierce jet streams that would hinder them.
"If there's one week [of safe weather], then the summit isn't crowded. But sometimes, when there's only a window of two or three days, it gets very crowded" as all the climbers try to reach the summit at the same time, Mingma Sherpa tells the BBC.
It's not the first time crowds at Everest have made headlines either. In 2012, another photo, taken by German climber Ralf Dujmovits, went viral, as it showed what he called a "conga line" of mountaineers at Everest.
Is overcrowding dangerous?
Mr Dujmovits, who reached the Everest Summit in 1992, and ascended 8,000m (26,200 ft) up the mountain on six other occasions, says that long queues at the summit can be hazardous. "When people have to wait in queues, they risk running short of oxygen - and may not have enough oxygen left on their way down." During his 1992 climb, he ran out of oxygen during his descent, and felt as though "someone was hitting me with a wooden sledgehammer", he says.
"I felt I almost couldn't make any progress - I was pretty lucky I could recover enough and eventually make my way down safely."
"When you have winds of stronger than 15km/h (9mph), you just can't make it without oxygen... you're losing so much body warmth."
To make matters worse - sometimes, oxygen cylinders left out for designated climbers get stolen. "Stealing oxygen at such altitude is no less than killing somebody," Maya Sherpa, who reached the summit three times, told BBC Nepali. "The government needs to co-ordinate with the Sherpas to enforce rules."
Why are there 'traffic jams'?
Experts say crowds at Everest have also increased in recent years because expeditions have become more popular. Andrea Ursina Zimmerman, an expedition guide who reached Everest's peak in 2016, says that many "traffic jams" are caused by unprepared climbers who "do not have the physical condition" for the journey. This risks not only their lives, but the lives of the Sherpas taking them up the mountain.
Sounds like it really needs tighter regulation at this stage. with a maximum put on the number of climbers attempting to summit in the one day. Allowing a free for all like they are now is killing people who are not thinking straight in their urge to get to the top whilst also putting Sherpas lives in danger too.0 -
British man dies up there this morning bringing the toll to 200
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It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall when the Sherpas get together for a chat alright. Lots of climbers are dying on the way down, after turning back, or in their tents at night.You mean put the sherpa's body and mind to the ultimate test while they set up all the ladders, ropes and gear, pitch the tents, cook and carry everything for you, and then they risk their lives again trying to drag your ass up and down, while you generally get in their way, slow them down, destroy their countryside and generally exploit them as much as possible. I'd say they despise all you bored spoiled polluting egocentric wealthy westerners, but have no choice to earn a living any other way.
An interesting choice of words (from the link below).Shakpa Sherpa wrote:"Bagwan died of dehydration, exhaustion and tiredness after being caught in the jam of climbers," said Keshab Paudel of the Peak Promotion hiking agency that handled the climber's logistics.
"We don't know for how long the jam lasted nor how many climbers were clogged by a single line near the summit," Paudel said.
Shakpa Sherpa of another agency, Arun Treks and Expeditions, said his client, Kulkarni, died of weakness while coming down to Camp IV on the South Col of Everest.
Maybe something was lost in translation, or maybe they are just are a very blunt and pragmatic people. Just calling things as they see them. Undoubtedly the Sherpas are the masters of this environment, genetically and physiologically acclimatised to these very high altitudes. Not only has the tribe been living at altitude from time immemorial, but the individuals have spent their entire lives in thin air. To them, the visiting climbers must seem weak and pathetic, but very rich.https://www.independent.ie/world-news/second-irish-mountaineer-dies-on-everest-in-little-over-a-week-38145247.html
But as said, people deciding to climb are all adults. They are making the decision, not us. Its their call.
Problem for these deaths now is that there will soon be Everest fatigue, and any attempts to raise money for his family or a body retrieval will not fetch much.0 -
Bad year this year, still won't stop people from attempting it. Only 5 died when I made it to base camp in 20170
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Are there any plans to bring Kevin Hynes body down, seeing as it's location is known and it is below the death zone? (Or so I believe)0
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All the camps are below the death zone. As he died in his tent, it would be accessible by helicopter AFAIK.bucketybuck wrote: »Are there any plans to bring Kevin Hynes body down, seeing as it's location is known and it is below the death zone? (Or so I believe)
The family may not have much choice. Is there an onus on the expedition organiser's to "leave no trace" these days, when they depart the camps?
Maybe a funeral at some lower part of the mountain range would be appropriate.0 -
All the camps are below the death zone. As he died in his tent, it would be accessible by helicopter AFAIK.
The family may not have much choice. Is there an onus on the expedition organiser's to "leave no trace" these days, when they depart the camps?
Maybe a funeral at some lower part of the mountain range would be appropriate.
Helicopter don't normally go past camp 2 - 21000 feet. He's at 23000.
They can't really keep dropping them into holes at this stage now either.
They should all be taking out repatriation insurance.0 -
c. $125 per day per climb, according to the wiki article I just read. Earnings of up to $5,000 per year compared to the Nepalese average of $700.
Except the climbing window is restricted to May alone - there is a bbc documentary where an informal union/group of everest summiteer sherpas were interviewed as part of their posllt disaster season 2014 strike where 14 of their colleagues were killed. They said their average annual salary was aprox 600 for the elite summiteering sherpas. Not a lot when you consider the risk of life changing frostbite=amputations, serious injury or death.
As for repratriation 'insurance' - the risk would be so great and the niche market so small that the premuim would probably be more than the expedition and permit costs.0 -
Helicopter don't normally go past camp 2 - 21000 feet. He's at 23000.
I think you have the two sides mixed up.
Camp 2 on the north side is above the North Col(also known as camp 1) where his tent was. I don't think helicopters go to camp 2 on the north side, it's far too high for it to be safe.
Edit: helicopters are banned on the north side by the Chinese.0 -
https://twitter.com/EverestToday/status/1121083759665790976
Good article from the Beeb on the crowding at Everest and how it is putting lives in danger. It also touches on people stealing other peoples oxygen tanks from the stashes transported and laid by Sherpas in advance of their expeditions summit push
More here https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48401491
Sounds like it really needs tighter regulation at this stage. with a maximum put on the number of climbers attempting to summit in the one day. Allowing a free for all like they are now is killing people who are not thinking straight in their urge to get to the top whilst also putting Sherpas lives in danger too.
On the southern approach - the Nepalese government issue climbing permits at the cost of $11,000 for each one issued. So far there has been no upper limits applied with regard to the permits / numbers of people who are allowed to climb.
On the Northern approach the Chinese also issue permits but are now restrictive as to the numbers allowed to climb.
Tbh the video posted here previously of a Chinese group scaling Everest, showing the base camps etc on the mountain from the Northern side looked almost civilised compared to some of the shenanigans going on in Nepal...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/21/china-cuts-climbing-permits-mount-everest-amid-major-clean-worlds/0 -
To make matters worse - sometimes, oxygen cylinders left out for designated climbers get stolen. "Stealing oxygen at such altitude is no less than killing somebody," Maya Sherpa, who reached the summit three times, told BBC Nepali. "The government needs to co-ordinate with the Sherpas to enforce rules."
More here https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48401491
I watched a documentary recently that showed the problem of imoral westerners stealing other people's oxygen bottles on Everest has go so bad, the Sherpa now have to chain and padlock the bottles. The whole Everest "adventure holiday" thing has become a farce.0 -
I watched a documentary recently that showed the problem of imoral westerners stealing other people's oxygen bottles on Everest has go so bad, the Sherpa now have to chain and padlock the bottles. The whole Everest "adventure holiday" thing has become a farce.
Afaik - the theft of equipment is not down to 'imoral westeners' (sic).
Trekking companies both foreign and local and rogue climbers have all been castigated. At times tte whole setup appears to be a bit like the wild west with money being the driving force of many.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-400504830 -
Afaik - the theft of equipment is not down to 'imoral westeners' (sic).
Trekking companies both foreign and local and rogue climbers have all been castigated. At times tte whole setup appears to be a bit like the wild west with money being the driving force of many.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40050483
Nope, the bottles are stolen at night even as high as camp 4 by western climbers, ironically from each other as well as from sherpas. The doc showed the sherpas having to padlock and chain them into blocks at 7900 m.0 -
Nope, the bottles are stolen at night even as high as camp 4 by western climbers, ironically from each other as well as from sherpas. The doc showed the sherpas having to padlock and chain them into blocks at 7900 m.
People from literally every corner of the earth climb Everest each year. Is it only Westerners that are unfit, wealthy thieves?0 -
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An English man has died now as well. Amid overcrowding at the top. It is like this every year? Seems totally bonkers.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/25/british-climber-latest-to-die-on-everest-amid-overcrowding-robin-fisher?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1Wa9V3Vg0PPjyl5p1LhaP-9cdNNDzS43Dt8GQp6lElDeGso2403nxChAk#Echobox=15587857370 -
Not just oxygen supplies being stolen either...Marcin Miotk, a Polish climber, arrived at Everest's Chinese Base Camp in May 2005, after making an unsuccessful attempt to climb Annapurna, the deadliest of the 8,000-meter peaks. He planned to ascend Everest solo, without Sherpas, and using no supplemental oxygen—the first Polish mountaineer to climb Everest without it. On May 29, Marcin started toward the summit, stocking tents at Camp One and Camp Two with gear, but retreated to ABC due to high winds that made a summit attempt without bottled oxygen too dangerous. Austrian friends who continued up left a sleeping bag for him in Camp Three, the highest camp on the mountain.
Two days later, an unprecedented late weather window opened and Marcin headed for the summit, climbing fast enough to make it to Camp One at midday, which proved to be fortuitous. When he opened his tent flap, he found that it had been raided. The Gore-Tex clothes he had left there for extra warmth had been stolen. He was irritated, but could get by without the clothes, and had planned to climb all the way to Camp Two that day anyway. But when he arrived at Camp Two hours later, he discovered his tent there had also been pillaged, this time burglarized of equipment crucial to his survival—his sleeping bag, gloves, windstopper pants and jacket, socks, and headlamp. With night coming on, the situation was desperate, so Marcin borrowed an unused sleeping bag from a nearby tent, which he returned in the morning before heading up again. With no supplemental oxygen or extra layers of clothing, Marcin was vulnerable to the cold, but the loss of his headlamp was the real problem in continuing his ascent. Without it, he wouldn't be able to start the climb from Camp Three to the summit in the middle of the night as almost every other climber does, forcing him to make his summit bid dangerously late in the day and leaving him little time to make it back to his tent before dark. Since he was climbing without bottled gas, he already had very little margin for error. During his climb to Camp Three, Marcin passed nearly fifty climbers heading down the mountain and asked many of them to borrow a light. Nobody would lend him one. He moved in at Camp Three, set up his gear for the night, and started for the summit at five thirty the next morning, climbing without a backpack so as to move more quickly. All the other climbers he saw were on their way down, having already summited or turned back. Marcin reached the top at two thirty that afternoon, the last summit of the season. He was back at his tent between seven and seven thirty; the setting sun was just touching the horizon. Exhausted, he wanted only to crawl into his sleeping bag and start his stove. But his tent had been looted again. Marcin picked through the mess that was left and tried to find his equipment, but it was all gone. His sleeping bag, stove, extra clothes, even his medications were stolen. And with the sun going down, he had only a few minutes to find replacements before he froze to death.
"Everything that seemed of any value was gone," Marcin wrote in an open letter to various mountaineering Web sites. "At 8300 meters, during summit push!...No shame, no ethics—only money counts."
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08s/wfeature-high-crimes-kodas/30 -
Ultimate Seduction wrote: »People from literally every corner of the earth climb Everest each year. Is it only Westerners that are unfit, wealthy thieves?
The vast majority that are wealthy and egocentric enough to think getting "on top" of Everest actually means anything, are westerners.0 -
Not just oxygen supplies being stolen either...Marcin Miotk, a Polish climber, arrived at Everest's Chinese Base Camp in May 2005, after making an unsuccessful attempt to climb Annapurna, the deadliest of the 8,000-meter peaks. He planned to ascend Everest solo, without Sherpas, and using no supplemental oxygen—the first Polish mountaineer to climb Everest without it. On May 29, Marcin started toward the summit, stocking tents at Camp One and Camp Two with gear, but retreated to ABC due to high winds that made a summit attempt without bottled oxygen too dangerous. Austrian friends who continued up left a sleeping bag for him in Camp Three, the highest camp on the mountain.
Two days later, an unprecedented late weather window opened and Marcin headed for the summit, climbing fast enough to make it to Camp One at midday, which proved to be fortuitous. When he opened his tent flap, he found that it had been raided. The Gore-Tex clothes he had left there for extra warmth had been stolen. He was irritated, but could get by without the clothes, and had planned to climb all the way to Camp Two that day anyway. But when he arrived at Camp Two hours later, he discovered his tent there had also been pillaged, this time burglarized of equipment crucial to his survival—his sleeping bag, gloves, windstopper pants and jacket, socks, and headlamp. With night coming on, the situation was desperate, so Marcin borrowed an unused sleeping bag from a nearby tent, which he returned in the morning before heading up again. With no supplemental oxygen or extra layers of clothing, Marcin was vulnerable to the cold, but the loss of his headlamp was the real problem in continuing his ascent. Without it, he wouldn't be able to start the climb from Camp Three to the summit in the middle of the night as almost every other climber does, forcing him to make his summit bid dangerously late in the day and leaving him little time to make it back to his tent before dark. Since he was climbing without bottled gas, he already had very little margin for error. During his climb to Camp Three, Marcin passed nearly fifty climbers heading down the mountain and asked many of them to borrow a light. Nobody would lend him one. He moved in at Camp Three, set up his gear for the night, and started for the summit at five thirty the next morning, climbing without a backpack so as to move more quickly. All the other climbers he saw were on their way down, having already summited or turned back. Marcin reached the top at two thirty that afternoon, the last summit of the season. He was back at his tent between seven and seven thirty; the setting sun was just touching the horizon. Exhausted, he wanted only to crawl into his sleeping bag and start his stove. But his tent had been looted again. Marcin picked through the mess that was left and tried to find his equipment, but it was all gone. His sleeping bag, stove, extra clothes, even his medications were stolen. And with the sun going down, he had only a few minutes to find replacements before he froze to death.
"Everything that seemed of any value was gone," Marcin wrote in an open letter to various mountaineering Web sites. "At 8300 meters, during summit push!...No shame, no ethics—only money counts."
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08s/wfeature-high-crimes-kodas/3
Very interesting. Read more from him on everestnews.com he blames the Sherpas for the thefts saying a few percent are bad but most are good. He says they discuss their thefts at base camp. Very disturbing.0 -
The vast majority that are wealthy and egocentric enough to think getting "on top" of Everest actually means anything, are westerners.
Do you include the huge numbers of Chinese, Indians who climb Everest etc etc in those misanthropic wanderings?
What anyone climber may 'think' is irrelevant tbh.
Perhaps you could also explain to why those specifically who are 'wealthy' enough to pay for guides and a fully organised climbing expedition need to sneak off and steal oxygen cylinders above all others?
Btw we're not talking about the occasional cylinder here btw - entire caches of cylinders are being stolen which imo indicates deliberate and organised theft. But hey sure go ahead - let prejudice be your only judge and jury ...0 -
Very interesting. Read more from him on everestnews.com he blames the Sherpas for the thefts saying a few percent are bad but most are good. He says they discuss their thefts at base camp. Very disturbing.
Id agree - it's a small number of bad apples. Though don't reckon its any one group tbh. Oxygen cylinders are perhaps the most valuable commodity on Everest. Even the empty cylinders are worth significant money.
The article posted above I think details at least some of the causes of the problemThe queue this year isn’t the problem,” he said. “But it exacerbates an underlying issue, and that is incompetent climbers being led by incompetent teams. If you go up with a bare minimum of bottles of supplementary oxygen and stand in a queue for ages, that is going to cause problems.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/25/british-climber-latest-to-die-on-everest-amid-overcrowding-robin-fisher?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1Wa9V3Vg0PPjyl5p1LhaP-9cdNNDzS43Dt8GQp6lElDeGso2403nxChAk#Echobox=1558785737
The teams refered to are trekking companies set up to specifically organise and sell climbing packages for Everest. Some of these are local, others are based in foreign countries. More than a few deaths have been attributed to shoddy practises of those selling badly organised and underfunded climbing packages.0 -
Don't reckon its any one group tbh. Oxygen cylinders are perhaps the most valuable commodity on Everest. Even the empty cylinders are worth significant money.
Why would that be? I've heard most don't want to use refiled ones due to the extra risk of malfunction.
Why are they so valuable? What are the empty cylinders used for?
I've seen pictures of them just discarded up there.0 -
Very interesting. Read more from him on everestnews.com he blames the Sherpas for the thefts saying a few percent are bad but most are good. He says they discuss their thefts at base camp. Very disturbing.
When I read articles like that I despise humanity even more, what happened to respect and being nice to each other. I know this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent and strayed away from rip type message it started as but its really opened my eyes to what goes on up on those climbs. Corporate and money making ventures taking the good out of it. Any romantic notions of climbing the worlds highest peak are well and truly burst.0 -
Yes agreed could be more than one group and he says it's a minority of sherpas and that the majority are good.
But yes the whole thing looks very shoddy in many respects, and should be an eye opener for anyone considering doing Everest.
I mean stealing someones oxygen is taking away their chance of survival, hadn't realised any of these things before coming on this thread.Everest is always portrayed in the mainstream media as this lofty adventure but it definitely has an underbelly.0 -
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When I read articles like that I despise humanity even more, what happened to respect and being nice to each other. I know this thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent and strayed away from rip type message it started as but its really opened my eyes to what goes on up on those climbs. Corporate and money making ventures taking the good out of it. Any romantic notions of climbing the worlds highest peak are well and truly burst.
+10
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