The Irish Ham wars

_Brian

Oxter wrote: »

I read in the farming forum thst young cattle from restricted herds (tb) can only be sold to feed lots.

Most farms locked up with tb don’t shift cattle only in dire positions.
The vast majority feed on and when the herd gets a clear test the cattle are sold as normal.

I’ve no experience but I’d wonder if they get a fair price selling cattle into feedlots like that.

It’s a minority of farms this would affect.

_Brian

kowloon wrote: »

Buy a lump of ham, honey and mustard, roast it. It's cheaper than packet ham and it's not much work to do.

Yea, we just cook hams from our own free range pigs and use that for lunches. Incredible feeding.

d8491prj5boyvg

Oxter wrote: »

Where do i buy pasture fed beef?
All i see is Irish beef, Certified Angus and Organic.

No reference to any of it being pasture fed or fed in a shed on a feed lot

Thr same applies to milk coming from intensive dairy farms where the cows never see a field.

Almost all Irish beef is pasture fed.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Oxter wrote: »

I read in the farming forum thst young cattle from restricted herds (tb) can only be sold to feed lots.

Any stock from a TB restricted farm can only be sold to a factory or feedlot, yes.

But the definition of feedlot in Ireland is a farm where the only onward movement of cattle is to a factory and not to any other destination.

So a feedlot would, in most cases, comprise of farms with cattle at grass for most of their lives and housed for short periods prior to slaughter to ensure fat covers on the cattle meet the grading criteria.

And some feedlots would specialise in the purchase of short term keep cattle for slaughter such as bull beef but would be in a tiny minority.

_Brian wrote: »

Most farms locked up with tb don’t shift cattle only in dire positions.
The vast majority feed on and when the herd gets a clear test the cattle are sold as normal.

I’ve no experience but I’d wonder if they get a fair price selling cattle into feedlots like that.

It’s a minority of farms this would affect.

The answer is no. Selling into a small market of one or two buyers wouldn't be an ideal situation to maximise prices for stock.

From my own experience last year of having to sell to a feedlot, 50% of the normal stock value would be normal, depending on time to slaughter. Older cattle would command better prices than younger stock, 80% of the going rate for older fleshed stock down to 20% of normal price for younger cattle, if you're lucky.

dont bother

would you eat a chimp??
it has been said that Pigs are a lot more closely related to Humans than Chimps.

I suddenly went off pork or any pig products about a year ago. can't stomach the thoughts of it now. gross. absolutely disgusting. you may as well be a cannibal really.

CrankyHaus

I've had to make a few visits to abbatoirs. While cattle ones might put some people off their steaks they're nothing compared to the distinct smell in a slaughterhouse for pigs. That said I never saw anything unsanitary or concerning in either.

_Brian wrote: »

Problem in ireland is resentment that a local artisan producer charging 10-20% more for a better product, but joe bloggs doesnt want to see him get his "premium price" so wanders into tesco and buys the cheapest alternative that can be got, it reaembles the artisan product in name alone but joe bloggs is happy because its really, really cheap and still called ham.

Funnily enough the laxest food safety I've encountered in food production was a "gourmet" or "premium" producer that had zero access controls for its sausage line. You could literally walk in off the street.

In contrast anywhere with a contract to provide supermarket's "own-brand" products has to meet very rigourous standards. Like McDonalds (which similarly has hygiene controls miles above most independent restaurants) it may not be the best food ever but its extremely clean.

DEFTLEFTHAND

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I've had to make a few visits to abbatoirs. While cattle ones might put some people off their steaks they're nothing compared to the distinct smell in a slaughterhouse for pigs. That said I never saw anything unsanitary or concerning in either.

Smells like a decomposing human corpse.

_Brian

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I've had to make a few visits to abbatoirs. While cattle ones might put some people off their steaks they're nothing compared to the distinct smell in a slaughterhouse for pigs. That said I never saw anything unsanitary or concerning in either.



Funnily enough the laxest food safety I've encountered in food production was a "gourmet" or "premium" producer that had zero access controls for its sausage line. You could literally walk in off the street.

In contrast anywhere with a contract to provide supermarket's "own-brand" products has to meet very rigourous standards. Like McDonalds (which similarly has hygiene controls miles above most independent restaurants) it may not be the best food ever but its extremely clean.

Ahh there’s a tale about every food if ya want one, I worked maintenance in a premium chocolate factory in Navan and behind the scenes it was a kip with lads in the store room walking on bulk slabs of chocolate on the floor.

The abattoir where I get my pigs slaughtered is grand, yea but if a smell bit it’s a slaughterhouse, what do you expect, spotlessly clean though.

Personally I think that artisan producers have a great reputation in Ireland, they produce a premium product and it tells in the eating.

I’ll be making my own sausages before the end of the year myself.

Zubeneschamali

dont bother wrote: »

would you eat a chimp??
it has been said that Pigs are a lot more closely related to Humans than Chimps.

It may have been said, but it is 100% false.

DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Smells like a decomposing human corpse.

A burning, boiled decomposing corpse, since the animal has to pass through flames (to burn the hair off) and a tank of boiling water before reaching the men with the knives.

Sounds a bit like a episode of Gladiators.

_Brian

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Smells like a decomposing human corpse.

I think that’s OTT.
It smells like the inside of a pig.

Making food is a messy business, it’s not for everyone to see behind the scenes because not everyone has a stomach for what happens, that doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s a sign that we have become separated from our food production.

_Brian

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

A burning, boiled decomposing corpse, since the animal has to pass through flames (to burn the hair off) and a tank of boiling water before reaching the men with the knives.

Sounds a bit like a episode of Gladiators.

The process is the process, it hasn’t changed much in a very long time, just more automated. Of course the pigs are dead at that stage.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

The process is the process, it hasn’t changed much in a very long time, just more automated. Of course the pigs are dead at that stage.

I know, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it's a bit smelly.

MetzgerMeister

The first and last time I ever ate Brady's ham it tasted awful - like eating cold rubber bands and it had the same consistency.

I buy Denny's Deli style ham every so often but I look at the slices on top and bottom of the packs and pick the one with the least amount of fat/grizzle as I can't stand it. Same goes for rashers, I'll check them to see which medallions look best and buy those.

Rows Grower

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I know, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it's a bit smelly.

Well I'll tell ya one thing, you're doing a damn fine job of pretending to.

_Brian

Society is headed for a terrible juncture as we become more and more removed from food production. What is happening is total control is being handed over to multinationals who’s drive is profit not good food, environment or animal welfare.

Small farms where animals and the environment are best cared for are going to the wall all the time because it’s costing a bit more to produce the food, between processors and consumers they don’t want to pay a fair price for food and so the massive feed lot style system edges closer and closer even here in Ireland.

Consumers should be voting with their shopping baskets, keeping away from highly processed foods that are laden with salt and fillers and choosing free range options.

Choose better people or the good food we enjoy will be gone and cheap nasty processed muck is you we will have.

Rows Grower

Rows Grower wrote: »

Well I'll tell ya one thing, you're doing a damn fine job of pretending to.

Eh?

I'm not complaining about the necessary way an abbatoir operates. There was a conversation about the smell, and I just had a mental flashback that I remember finding amusing (the Gladiator course comparison).

Love day out, find someone else to argue with pointlessly, it ain't me.

Muahahaha

_Brian wrote: »

Problem in ireland is resentment that a local artisan producer charging 10-20% more for a better product, but joe bloggs doesnt want to see him get his "premium price" so wanders into tesco and buys the cheapest alternative that can be got, it reaembles the artisan product in name alone but joe bloggs is happy because its really, really cheap and still called ham.

Doesnt that work the other way around too though? You have artisan producers who have no middlemen whatsoever selling at farmers markets in wealthy areas and basically ripping off people with more money than sense. Then the artisan sector as a whole gets a rep for being expensive so the mass market stay away.

Same goes for all these craft brewerys, they are brewing beer for 40 or 50c a pint and then in the pub you're expected to pay €7 to €8 a pint. Their spiel is that "we're not Diageo, we're your local brewery". But they don't compete on price, seems they think they should get a price premium just for being "local". Balls to that, imo.

The Nal

Buy and carve the ham yourself. Problem solved.

dont bother

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

It may have been said, but it is 100% false.

who are you? lord of all knowledge. go way out of that.

they're more intelligent than dogs. that's enough for me!

DEFTLEFTHAND

_Brian wrote: »

I think that’s OTT.
It smells like the inside of a pig.

Making food is a messy business, it’s not for everyone to see behind the scenes because not everyone has a stomach for what happens, that doesn’t mean it’s bad, it’s a sign that we have become separated from our food production.

A pig carcass gives off a similar odour to a corpse.

Human meat is also said to taste somewhat like pig meat. We seem to have a lot in common with these beasts.

brightspark

"Long pig"

https://grammarist.com/archaic/long-pig/

RickDeckard

I find the cognitive dissonance inconceivably amazing when it comes to Pigs in Ireland.

We dont give a flying fuk about their welfare because they are ugly animals.

All the animal charities in Ireland for Cats and Dogs and Horses, rightly so, but when it comes to pigs , no one gives a sh1t.

The suffering endures by millions of these animals every second of every day in this country is barbaric.

Imagine if these were dog farms, for dog meat, the country would melt down with the righteous hand wringing.

The meat processing industry is the reason I do not eat meat.
I do not believe there is anything wrong with eating meat.

The industrialized suffering caused by the meat industry, particularly Pigs, is disgusting and immoral, and we will look back in a 100 years and go 'what were we doing?

I cant do much to stop this, but I can stop giving my money to Denny, Bradys and all the rest of them. Mini Empires built on suffering.

A long chat with a vet really made the penny drop on this.

If the pig farming was not so intensive and cruel , I'd probably eat it.
But with the way it is, it actually makes me mad.

Que all the ridicule now and crap jokes about Bacon....

dont bother

RickDeckard wrote: »

I find the cognitive dissonance inconceivably amazing when it comes to Pigs in Ireland.

We dont give a flying fuk about their welfare because they are ugly animals.

All the animal charities in Ireland for Cats and Dogs and Horses, rightly so, but when it comes to pigs , no one gives a sh1t.

The suffering endures by millions of these animals every second of every day in this country is barbaric.

Imagine if these were dog farms, for dog meat, the country would melt down with the righteous hand wringing.

The meat processing industry is the reason I do not eat meat.
I do not believe there is anything wrong with eating meat.

The industrialized suffering caused by the meat industry, particularly Pigs, is disgusting and immoral, and we will look back in a 100 years and go 'what were we doing?

I cant do much to stop this, but I can stop giving my money to Denny, Bradys and all the rest of them. Mini Empires built on suffering.

A long chat with a vet really made the penny drop on this.

If the pig farming was not so intensive and cruel , I'd probably eat it.
But with the way it is, it actually makes me mad.

Que all the ridicule now and crap jokes about Bacon....

absolutely 100% agree.
it's disgusting.
i happen to think that pigs are just as cute as dogs or cats.
they are more intelligent than the most intelligent dog.

you see gobsh!tes protesting dog-eating in places like china etc... from here, like, what about the absolute scummery of being so GREEDY that you turn a blind eye to the suffering of these intelligent animals?

would you eat a dolphin, a whale? No most likely not.

plus, that fvckin ugly eejit from the brady ad's give me a headache. what a pr!ck.

they should tax the fvck out of pork products in this country as much as they do cigarettes.

but again, for the most part, irish people love turning a blind eye to these things as long as they can still have what they want.

so, really it's irish people and their greed and glutony that's the real problem.

DEFTLEFTHAND

dont bother wrote: »

absolutely 100% agree.
it's disgusting.
i happen to think that pigs are just as cute as dogs or cats.
they are more intelligent than the most intelligent dog.

you see gobsh!tes protesting dog-eating in places like china etc... from here, like, what about the absolute scummery of being so GREEDY that you turn a blind eye to the suffering of these intelligent animals?

would you eat a dolphin, a whale? No most likely not.

plus, that fvckin ugly eejit from the brady ad's give me a headache. what a pr!ck.

they should tax the fvck out of pork products in this country as much as they do cigarettes.

but again, for the most part, irish people love turning a blind eye to these things as long as they can still have what they want.

so, really it's irish people and their greed and glutony that's the real problem.

It's a cultural thing more than anything. Bacon and other pork products have been popular here for generations.

The Full Irish Breakfast and Ulster Fry are famous around the world.

gozunda

Yup I see the preachers have arrived. Fair play lads only the stench of sanctimonious bs is getting very strong. If you dont like meat fine - no one's making you eat it. It's not like people are slapping the veggie burgers out of your hand or anything. So if ye can cut the hyperbole about cute / ugly monkies, dogs and cannibalism (sic) down a bit that would be great. Personally I reckon pigs are very handsome animals. I eat pork and bacon and buy free range from my local butcher when I'm not raising my own. But there we go.

dont bother

gozunda wrote: »

Yup I see the preachers have arrived. Fair play lads only the stench of sanctimonious bs is getting very strong. If you dont like meat fine - no one's making you eat it. It's not like people are slapping the veggie burgers out of your hand or anything. So if ye can cut the hyperbole about cute / ugly monkies, dogs and cannibalism (sic) down that would be great. Personally I reckon pigs are very handsome animals. I eat pork and bacon and buy free range from my local butcher when I'm not raising my own. But there we go.

well fair enough, and arent you "great", but you're also ONE person who does it.
do you think the mad GAA freckle brigade give a flying sh!te where their Hang comes from? they dont.

they're the real pigs

gozunda

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

A pig carcass gives off a similar odour to a corpse.

I can reliably tell you that a freshly killed pig smells nothing like corpse.

Now leave any animal or human to decompose and they will start to give of cavadavrine and start to stink. But even vegetables stink when they rot. Ever smell decomposing courgettes? Absolutely disgusting believe it or not.

Human meat is also said to taste somewhat like pig meat. We seem to have a lot in common with these beasts.

A bit of proselytising going on DLH there by any chance? Does it? And you know that because you snack on humans? Yes we've a lot in common with other animals. That's because we are animals. And like many other animals humans eat meat as part of an omnivorous diet.
But no canabilism isn't recommended. Most animals dont eat their own kind. Kinda makes sense.

Some people seem to have some serious problems with humans eating a perfectly normal diet around here? I wonder why that is? :rolleyes:

gozunda

dont bother wrote: »

well fair enough, and arent you "great", but you're also ONE person who does it. do you think the mad GAA freckle brigade give a flying sh!te where their Hang comes from? they dont. they're the real pigs

Nope. Read the thread. Not just me and people can chose themselves where they want to buy their pork. I recommend free range and organic where possible.

You seem very angry - why is that? The "Mad GAA freckle brigade / pigs" ???? I've heard it all now. Cultural racism and hate speech is alive and well apparently...

Btw did you ever hear of the famous Dublin dish called Coddle? It's made with bacon and sausages btw - but dont let that stop you calling people outside Dublin "culchies" and "culchie scum" ... :rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/there-are-hundreds-of-coddle-recipes-but-mine-is-the-true-dublin-one-1.1596150

RickDeckard

gozunda wrote: »

Yup I see the preachers have arrived. Fair play lads only the stench of sanctimonious bs is getting very strong. If you dont like meat fine - no one's making you eat it. It's not like people are slapping the veggie burgers out of your hand or anything. So if ye can cut the hyperbole about cute / ugly monkies, dogs and cannibalism (sic) down that would be great. Personally I reckon pigs are very handsome animals. I eat pork and bacon and buy free range from my local butcher when I'm not raising my own. But there we go.

I presume you are referring to my post?
So you build a straw man and knock it down, well done big fella.

Read this slowly:

I do not think there is any problem eating pigs, or eating any animal for that matter, its all the same in the end, everything eats everything else on this planet, that is the way it is.
BUT
I have a massive problem with the way meat is produced industrially, the Pig industry in Ireland being a prime example.
Intensive Pig farming is inherently cruel and barbaric, if you deny this, then you are in denial or a fool.

I've worked in Meat Factories and Meat Processing when I was a lad, I know exactly what happens inside the walls.

If you intend to reply to my post, reply to the content of my post, not what you presume me to have said.