The Irish Ham wars

fin12

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Everyone connected to farming seems to know about it.

You'd wonder why some Department (of Ag) inspector isn't rocking up to some pig farm saying "You have 3,000 very young pigs with teeth extracted and tails cut, can you show us your veterinary records for anaesthetic?"

Simple job. Civil officials do public checks all the time in other spheres of life. It seems like nobody is paying these guys much attention.

There are plenty of chancers in the industry, but I don't think there's corruption. It must just be a lack of initiative, I reckon.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/one-of-irelands-biggest-pig-farmers-jailed-for-18-months-after-starving-pigs-cannibalised-each-other-30987421.html

MarkY91

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Anyone who’s eating that muck thinking it’s some sort of “gourmet” product is deluded. That stuff is sprayed off the pig carcass, swept off the floor and hammered into ham slices. The idea it’s sliced from a pig is laughable.

Some of those competitors are probably getting the processed ham from the same factories and just stamping their logo on it. Brady’s doesn’t run their business out of the grandfather’s shed.

Those lads in factories are smart, they don’t waste anything. The only part of the pig that’s left is the bung, the arsehole. Don’t think there’s a market for it here but places in the States have been getting away with selling it on as imitation calamari but not labelling it as imitation.

Who gives a ****e? It tastes good on a sandwich. End of story. Ffs

Sheep breeder

Sheep breeder wrote: »

That’s a good bottle of wine your on to night and making you fantasied about what you thing goes on in pig factory, animals are pre slaughter checked by vet staff to one of the highest standards in Europe. Ireland is one of the biggest exporter of high health status breeding pigs and one of the market leaders in breeding boars in the world. If you ever visited a piggery the health and management and facilities are second to none and hygiene and disease levels are huge. So to come on here and run down the industry and what your family member does an odd time in a pig factory is a joke.

These impeccable ‘Irish standards’ must be great for whoever the meat is exported to.

What about the Irish consumer though ?

Where does their pig meat come from ?

Would it not make sense to satisfy the local market before ANY meat was considered for export ?

Do Irish consumers genuinely think they are eating Irish produced meat ?

Sheep breeder

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

If I was some fantasist, I wouldn't have been able to tell you the fact that Vet Inspectors don't have control of the labs, or the daily kill-rate in one company (anyone familiar with the industry will immediately know the company) or the specific parasite tests that happen there (rather, tests that should happen there and are ignored, or partially ignored).

You don't have to believe me, but I wouldn't say these things without having someone reliable and professional in my life who is worried about them. I've also been around here long enough to know that people who make up those details are quickly put in their place.

I'm telling you what a very responsible person is telling me. If you have doubts, approach any vet you know. They have all worked in these places, and were obliged to in their training.

And I have worked in slaughter plants and seen the way they are run and the standard of pigs going into the plant is seriously high.the piggeries are run on high health status and are routinely visited by veterinary staff and nobody walks into a piggery with out going through the on site bio security measures first.

Sheep breeder

Deleted User wrote: »

These impeccable ‘Irish standards’ must be great for whoever the meat is exported to.

What about the Irish consumer though ?

Where does their pig meat come from ?

Would it not make sense to satisfy the local market before ANY meat was considered for export ?

Do Irish consumers genuinely think they are eating Irish produced meat ?

The exact applies to Irish home market products that are Irish reared.

Sheep breeder

Sheep breeder wrote: »

And I have worked in slaughter plants and seen the way they are run and the standard of pigs going into the plant is seriously high.the piggeries are run on high health status and are routinely visited by veterinary staff and nobody walks into a piggery with out going through the on site bio security measures first.

The Bio-security measures are absolutely correct and appropriate, and they make sense for a plant that is probably killing such a substantial amount of the entire Irish market.

But where did you get your knowledge of pig farms from? Have you worked on a pig farm where anaesthetic was used for cauterizing tails? And extracting teeth?

Have you worked in an abbatoir where pigs are appropriately tested for parasites like trichenella which can infect humans?

It is an open-secret that there exists a blasé attitude in pig-rearing and slaughter, in terms of animal welfare and public health. I'm all for us promoting the industry, but not in a way that will eventually lead to massive reputational damage.

The real story, should anyone have the time or will to start a thread, is on the export and import of meat.

Why is Ireland exporting and importing so much meat ?

Surely the Irish tax payer should be the first to benefit from Irish produced meat. That’s why they pay their tax/subsidies isn’t it ?

Is the Irish tax payer happy to subsidise an industry that they don’t 100% benefit from ?

Does it not make sense to satisfy the local market first and then export ?

Why import ANY meat when the country produces so much for export ?

Anyway, maybe someone with the will to start such a thread could shine a light on why the Irish consumer is happy to eat foreign produced meat while they have ‘Irish standards’ meat being sold abroad.

The amount of Irish consumers that have no idea they are eating foreign and imported meat is frightening. What are the standards in those countries ?

whisky_galore

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Advice to completely stop consumption of whole food groups is quite common from non government actors. Do you think this is somehow a safer approach? Which food groups do you avoid in your quest to be risk free when you eat.

Forget it.
T.R.O.L. doesnt reveal his/her behaviour. Like Mary Poppins probably perfect in every way. *Insert roll eyes*

Hobosan

Pork is incredibly bad for you, unless you combine it with bear meat. The bear meat counteracts the toxic swine characteristics with its overwhelming predatory bear power.

Duck is also bad and could turn you into rapist with a corkscrew penis. Obviously the negative effects can be cancelled out by eating fox meat.

I generally avoid pork as bear meat is difficult to source.

It's just basic maths and common sense.

tabby aspreme

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The real story, should anyone have the time or will to start a thread, is on the export and import of meat.

Why is Ireland exporting and importing so much meat ?

Surely the Irish tax payer should be the first to benefit from Irish produced meat. That’s why they pay their tax/subsidies isn’t it ?

Is the Irish tax payer happy to subsidise an industry that they don’t 100% benefit from ?

Does it not make sense to satisfy the local market first and then export ?

Why import ANY meat when the country produces so much for export ?

Anyway, maybe someone with the will to start such a thread could shine a light on why the Irish consumer is happy to eat foreign produced meat while they have ‘Irish standards’ meat being sold abroad.

The amount of Irish consumers that have no idea they are eating foreign and imported meat is frightening. What are the standards in those countries ?

Pork and chicken producers do not receive subsidies for production, unlike other types of farming.

As regards imports and exports, its all about European free trade, and OECD agreements, it costs 15-20 cent to move a kilo of meat to any part of Europe in a truck, farmers are getting €1.60/ kg for pig meat at the moment, a 10% increase on last year's price, which leaves a big margin for processors and shops. Meat is traded worldwide like any other commodity

judeboy101

Ham and bacon are carcinogens in the same category as cigarettes.

OldMrBrennan83

judeboy101 wrote: »

Ham and bacon are carcinogens in the same category as cigarettes.

The Baco foil is strong in this one.

judeboy101

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

The Baco foil is strong in this one.

https://www.compoundchem.com/2015/10/26/carcinogens/

whisky_galore

judeboy101 wrote: »

https://www.compoundchem.com/2015/10/26/carcinogens/

Maybe you should bother to read the rest of the article in your own link?

judeboy101

whisky_galore wrote: »

Maybe you should bother to read the rest of the article in your own link?

I did. I wouldn't post something I didn't read and my original post was accurate, wasn't it? They are recognized as carcinogens and in the same category as cigarettes. By my maths its the equivalent of giving your child one puff of a cigarette before school starts rather than give them sausages for breakfast and giving them ham sandwiches for their lunch.

whisky_galore

judeboy101 wrote: »

I did. I wouldn't post something I didn't read and my original post was accurate, wasn't it? They are recognized as carcinogens and in the same category as cigarettes. By my maths its the equivalent of giving your child one puff of a cigarette before school starts rather than give them sausages for breakfast and giving them ham sandwiches for their lunch.

Putting in a category isn't the same as risk.

"This places it in the same group as smoking, which has led to a number of headlines claiming that it means the risk from the two is the same. It isn’t"

"To put this in a little more perspective, it’s estimated that 34,000 cancer deaths worldwide every year are caused by diets high in processed meat, compared to 1 million deaths per year due to smoking, and 600,000 due to alcohol consumption. It’s clear then that the headlines likening the risk of cancer from smoking to that of eating processed meat are well wide of the mark."

judeboy101

whisky_galore wrote: »

Putting in a category isn't the same as risk.

"This places it in the same group as smoking, which has led to a number of headlines claiming that it means the risk from the two is the same. It isn’t"

"To put this in a little more perspective, it’s estimated that 34,000 cancer deaths worldwide every year are caused by diets high in processed meat, compared to 1 million deaths per year due to smoking, and 600,000 due to alcohol consumption. It’s clear then that the headlines likening the risk of cancer from smoking to that of eating processed meat are well wide of the mark."

So deaths from cigarettes are 30 times deaths from processed meats? Therefore one puff of a cigarette equals a few sausages and a ham sandwich. Simples.

OldMrBrennan83

So, not the same at all then.

judeboy101

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

So, not the same at all then.

Would you substitute the processed meat in your childs diet for a single puff of a cigarette a day, maybe 2 on the weekend ?

Lucy8080

This would be a good topic for the Mustard Forum!

whisky_galore

judeboy101 wrote: »

So deaths from cigarettes are 30 times deaths from processed meats? Therefore one puff of a cigarette equals a few sausages and a ham sandwich. Simples.

Whatever you think yourself.

Allinall

judeboy101 wrote: »

Would you substitute the processed meat in your childs diet for a single puff of a cigarette a day, maybe 2 on the weekend ?

Why would you do that?

They’d be starving.

gozunda

Sheep breeder wrote: »

The exact applies to Irish home market products that are Irish reared.

The funny thing about these screamers is that - it's not just 'meat' which must comply with a raft of national standards.

The only reason this lot are constantly banging on about this is because as self declared plant food activists etc that never shut up commenting about Irish 'meat' on Boards. And as they've said themselves in comments they don't eat meat and some dont even live here. And yet everything's 'Irish" and 'meat' is badddd. Yeah sure we believe them ....'

judeboy101

Allinall wrote: »

Why would you do that?

They’d be starving.

They'd lose weight, too many fat little kids fed on cheap high processed meat. Zero calories in cigarette and it supresses appetite. Win win, you get the same level of carcinogen exposure and decrease obesity.

dxhound2005

judeboy101 wrote: »

They'd lose weight, too many fat little kids fed on cheap high processed meat. Zero calories in cigarette and it supresses appetite. Win win, you get the same level of carcinogen exposure and decrease obesity.

Cigarettes and coffee would be the perfect breakfast for children. I saw a headline in the paper saying that coffee drinkers live two years longer than the average.

gozunda

whisky_galore wrote: »

Whatever you think yourself.

whisky - theres little point in bothering with the usual tin hat and fantasist brigade who turn up on these threads. Funny how its the same eejits always manage to find the articles written by screamers

This is what the World Health Organisation actually says about Processed meats etc

processed meat has been classified in the same category as causes of cancer such as tobacco smoking ... (IARC Group 1, carcinogenic to humans), but this does NOT mean that they are all equally dangerous. The IARC classifications describe the strength of the scientific evidence about an agent being a cause of cancer, rather than assessing the level of risk.

13. Could you quantify the risk of eating red meat and processed meat?

The consumption of processed meat was associated with small increases in the risk of cancer in the studies reviewed. In those studies, the risk generally increased with the amount of meat consumed. An analysis of data from 10 studies estimated that every 50 gram portion of processed meat eaten daily increases the risk of colorectal cancer by about 18%.

You know what else can give us cancer? "Bull****e" and that's without doubt because I read it some deranged website somewhere...

:rolleyes:

EmmetSpiceland

MarkY91 wrote: »

Who gives a ****e? It tastes good on a sandwich. End of story. Ffs

The issue isn’t the sandwich, it’s the lads marketing the reconstituted meat as some sort of prime cut.

dxhound2005

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

The issue isn’t the sandwich, it’s the lads marketing the reconstituted meat as some sort of prime cut.

The first company named in the OP is Bradys. According to them in the link I posted they are not using reconstituted meat, but meat from single pork muscles.

EmmetSpiceland

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The first company named in the OP is Bradys. According to them in the link I posted they are not using reconstituted meat, but meat from single pork muscles.

And selling it for two quid a pop? I’d have my doubts.

Maybe “pork muscle” could be an industry term for that meat slurry they pack down and slice up for serving?

OldMrBrennan83

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

And selling it for two quid a pop? I’d have my doubts.

Maybe “pork muscle” could be an industry term for that meat slurry they pack down and slice up for serving?

You don't get away with that any more.