The Irish Ham wars

Muahahaha

I dont think Ive ever seen any food product advertised so widely and consistently on tv/radio as you do ham. Between Bradys Family ham, Dennys Deli style Crumbled Ham, Shaws Hand Carved ham, Carrolls Traditional Ham, O'Heliheys Cooked SLiced Ham, it goes on and on. Rarely a day goes by you dont hear an advertisement for ham but you rarely hear much for chicken, pork, beef, lamb etc.

I cant even remember the last time I bought any kind of sliced ham. Maybe I'm missing something here, is the rest of the nation completely obsessed with ham or something? The amount of advertising certainly seems to suggest so.

Just saw that the company behind Carrolls Ham in Tullamore sold in 2015 for €40m. Is ham some kind of black gold for the Irish? And ultimately who comes out top in the Irish Ham wars?

suicide_circus

how many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?

None.

Dtp1979

If you ever saw how that “ham” was made, you’d think twice about eating it. Complete shjte

dxhound2005

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If you ever saw how that “ham” was made, you’d think twice about eating it. Complete shjte

I believe it's made from pigs.

One eyed Jack

I don’t think you’re missing anything OP, you’ve probably just become more attuned to the advertising because you started to take notice.

In saying that though, ham sandwiches are fairly traditional Irish food anyway. I just thought about it there and I’d often have ham sandwiches for lunch, had bacon for dinner yesterday, and pork chops for dinner the previous day.

Now I think of it, I also had two beef steaks for supper the previous night. I don’t plan on becoming vegan any time soon, but maybe that’s why there’s an increasing amount of advertising around promoting meat in our diets, to compete with the constant barrage of nonsense about “adopting a vegan lifestyle” :rolleyes:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Leave that near me and I assure you it will be missing pieces.

zapitastas

Stopped eating ham a long time ago. The smell from it when you would first open a packet would turn your stomach. Fried bacon on the other hand i don't think I could ever stop

EmmetSpiceland

Anyone who’s eating that muck thinking it’s some sort of “gourmet” product is deluded. That stuff is sprayed off the pig carcass, swept off the floor and hammered into ham slices. The idea it’s sliced from a pig is laughable.

Some of those competitors are probably getting the processed ham from the same factories and just stamping their logo on it. Brady’s doesn’t run their business out of the grandfather’s shed.

Those lads in factories are smart, they don’t waste anything. The only part of the pig that’s left is the bung, the arsehole. Don’t think there’s a market for it here but places in the States have been getting away with selling it on as imitation calamari but not labelling it as imitation.

Dtp1979

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If you ever saw how that “ham” was made, you’d think twice about eating it. Complete shjte

A family member of mine does occasional work in a pig abbatoir doing veterinary inspections.

The Irish pork crisis of 2008 was caused by industrial oil getting into pig-feed, and it wasn't detected for months. My relative has relayed awful stories about pig carcasses not being properly tested for salmonella, and the test for a kind of parasite (trichinella, which lives under your skin, if contracted and cannot be removed) being routinely ignored.

There's only so much veterinary inspectors can do, because it isn't their job to supervise the lab staff. Thats the role of the QA manager who is an employee of an abbatoir.

Bad practices are an open secret in the pork farming and slaughtering sectors, I can't understand why it hasn't been picked up on by the likes of Prime Time Investigates, or even any young journalist with a bit of curiosity in them.

It's an industry with a disproportionate amount of chancers in it. Maybe due to the intensive nature of the farming, and the fact that its run by a very small number of farmers and processors.

Dodgy AF

Thelonious Monk

It's always some prick with a beard and check shirt or people going to GAA matches in the ads. I always thought the same, this country is obsessed with the stuff. That packet ham is all disgusting.

OldMrBrennan83

Dtp1979 wrote: »

If you ever saw how that “ham” was made, you’d think twice about eating it. Complete shjte

No it all isnt. Like everything there's ****e and there's good stuff. And there's also stuff in between, whatever you're trying to peddle.

kneemos

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I believe it's made from pigs.

May contain nuts.

Sam Quentin

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

A family member of mine does occasional work in a pig abbatoir doing veterinary inspections.

The Irish pork crisis of 2008 was caused by industrial oil getting into pig-feed, and it wasn't detected for months. My relative has relayed awful stories about pig carcasses not being properly tested for salmonella, and the test for a kind of parasite (trichinella, which lives under your skin, if contracted and cannot be removed) being routinely ignored.

There's only so much veterinary inspectors can do, because it isn't their job to supervise the lab staff. Thats the role of the QA manager who is an employee of an abbatoir.

Bad practices are an open secret in the pork farming and slaughtering sectors, I can't understand why it hasn't been picked up on by the likes of Prime Time Investigates, or even any young journalist with a bit of curiosity in them.

It's an industry with a disproportionate amount of chancers in it. Maybe due to the intensive nature of the farming, and the fact that its run by a very small number of farmers and processors.

Dodgy AF

I bet you're a beef farmer!?

kneemos

Tried some Pork Scratchings a few weeks ago. Smell of pig out of the bag and they tasted like shoite, weren't even all crispy but soft like fat.
Need to be drunk I imagine.

Mena Mitty

kneemos wrote: »

Tried some Pork Scratchings a few weeks ago. Smell of pig out of the bag and they tasted like shoite, weren't even all crispy but soft like fat.
Need to be drunk I imagine.

I thought Pork Scratchings were dog treats. Are you sure they're sold for human consumption ?

Sam Quentin

Sam Quentin wrote: »

I bet you're a beef farmer!?

ha! I come from a farm but I'm not a farmer. Beef abbatoirs have their own share of scandals, and they've been reported regularly.

Pig farming is different to other types of farming. There are only about 400 farmers in the country, some with thousands of pigs. So when something goes wrong in one of them, it turns into a wildfire.

And as far as I know there are only about 5 pig abbatoirs in the country. So again, if anything goes wrong (and it does), the repercussions are massive.

Combine that with a few dodgy characters / farmers... Well, be careful where you source your pork.

JohnnyFlash

I wouldn’t be a fussy eater at all, but I’ve pretty much given up eating pig meat. And if I do eat it then I buy proper fancy free range and slow breed stuff. Gubeen and the likes. They are lovely animals and I get a small bit depressed thinking about the intensive farming methods used so we can have cheap ham and sausages

freshpopcorn

I adore ham cant get enough of it but I prefer the stuff you cook yourself.
The packet stuff isn't great tough.
You've to search through packets and packets of it to get a packet that might be okay for a toasted sandwich.
I never got much good out of Denny or Carroll's tough.

kneemos

Mena Mitty wrote: »

I thought Pork Scratchings were dog treats. Are you sure they're sold for human consumption ?

Now!

Thelonious Monk

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I wouldn’t be a fussy eater at all, but I’ve pretty much given up eating pig meat. And if I do eat it then I buy proper fancy free range and slow breed stuff. Gubeen and the likes. They are lovely animals and I get a small bit depressed thinking about the intensive farming methods used so we can have cheap ham and sausages

Same here, I saw some piglets playing with each other a few years ago, they're just like puppies. Haven't eaten pork in a few years, I get sad even thinking about their existences
I've never seen free range pork in Ireland mind.

fussyonion

Denny Fire & Smoke is the only ham I buy. I can't stand the ham that has loads of fat running through it.

suicide_circus

pork is the most consumed meat in the world

EmmetSpiceland

kneemos wrote: »

May contain nuts.

They wouldn’t be wasting succulent testicle meat on nasty packet ham. Scrotum and perineum, certainly, but the balls would be used for better products.

Muahahaha

fussyonion wrote: »

Denny Fire & Smoke is the only ham I buy. I can't stand the ham that has loads of fat running through it.

I know some people dont like fat running through it but wouldnt that be a sign that it was sliced off a single piece of the pig like the leg rather than being some kind of factory pressed reformed ham made from all the innards and entrails?

Charles Ingles

suicide_circus wrote: »

how many potatoes does it take to kill an Irishman?

None.

How offensive to the memories of those who died during the famine

Rows Grower

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

ha! I come from a farm but I'm not a farmer. Beef abbatoirs have their own share of scandals, and they've been reported regularly.

Pig farming is different to other types of farming. There are only about 400 farmers in the country, some with thousands of pigs. So when something goes wrong in one of them, it turns into a wildfire.

And as far as I know there are only about 5 pig abbatoirs in the country. So again, if anything goes wrong (and it does), the repercussions are massive.

Combine that with a few dodgy characters / farmers... Well, be careful where you source your pork.

There are loads of approved abbatoirs for the slaughter of pigs all over the country. There's probably 5 alone within an hours drive from my house.

I've bought piglets from one pig farm near Kilgarvan on more than a few occasions over the years and the conditions there are more hygienic than some houses I've worked in.

OldMrBrennan83

Muahahaha wrote: »

I know some people dont like fat running through it but wouldnt that be a sign that it was sliced off a single piece of the pig like the leg rather than being some kind of factory pressed reformed ham made from all the innards and entrails?

Once it's all pressed and cooked you'd never know though. Grand stuff.

suicide_circus

Charles Ingles wrote: »

How offensive to the memories of those who died during the famine

yep thats the idea

whisky_galore

Muahahaha wrote: »

I know some people dont like fat running through it but wouldnt that be a sign that it was sliced off a single piece of the pig like the leg rather than being some kind of factory pressed reformed ham made from all the innards and entrails?

You'd have to have wonder about someone if they can't tell the difference between a single piece of pig and a Billy Roll.

OldMrBrennan83

suicide_circus wrote: »

yep thats the idea

It's ok, we're the only ones who are fair game these days.

Rows Grower

Rows Grower wrote: »

There are loads of approved abbatoirs for the slaughter of pigs all over the country. There's probably 5 alone within an hours drive from my house.

Are you sure they're not processors?

A processor just handles the meat, eg packaging

As far as I knew there were only five. There are probably small, family abbatoirs doing a tiny amount of work. But the ones I'm thinking of would kill thousands per day.

_Brian

Muahahaha wrote: »

I dont think Ive ever seen any food product advertised so widely and consistently on tv/radio as you do ham. Between Bradys Family ham, Dennys Deli style Crumbled Ham, Shaws Hand Carved ham, Carrolls Traditional Ham, O'Heliheys Cooked SLiced Ham, it goes on and on. Rarely a day goes by you dont hear an advertisement for ham but you rarely hear much for chicken, pork, beef, lamb etc.

I cant even remember the last time I bought any kind of sliced ham. Maybe I'm missing something here, is the rest of the nation completely obsessed with ham or something? The amount of advertising certainly seems to suggest so.

Just saw that the company behind Carrolls Ham in Tullamore sold in 2015 for €40m. Is ham some kind of black gold for the Irish? And ultimately who comes out top in the Irish Ham wars?

We tear a few pigs free range each year and have them butchered and cured.

Now that’s ham, the other commercial shed reared stuff is a pale comparison to it.

Thelonious Monk

There are now more pigs than people in Spain. Do Irish pigs ever actually get to go outside?

zoe 3619

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Same here, I saw some piglets playing with each other a few years ago, they're just like puppies. Haven't eaten pork in a few years, I get sad even thinking about their existences
I've never seen free range pork in Ireland mind.

Had a pet pig a while ago.Lovely intelligent animal with a wicked sense of humour.
Sheep and cows you see grazing in the fields,but for all the pork that is eaten,when was the last time you saw a herd of pigs frollicking in the sun.

freshpopcorn

_Brian wrote: »

We tear a few pigs free range each year and have them butchered and cured.

Now that’s ham, the other commercial shed reared stuff is a pale comparison to it.

That's exactly it.
Nothing you really buy processed is that nice.

Rows Grower

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Are you sure they're not processors?

A processor just handles the meat, eg packaging

As far as I knew there were only five. There are probably small, family abbatoirs doing a tiny amount of work. But the ones I'm thinking of would kill thousands per day.

I'd have to check the list I got when I got a herd number for pigs to be 100% sure but I'm not going to do that.

There is no probably about it though.

I'd rather eat a kebab off an elephants foot than eat that muck

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

There are now more pigs than people in Spain. Do Irish pigs ever actually get to go outside?

In your shopping bag

Thelonious Monk

Good article here on raising pigs in woodlands
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/i-sent-the-first-of-my-four-pigs-to-the-abattoir-now-i-feel-a-pang-of-guilt-1.3119507

Rows Grower

_Brian wrote: »

We tear a few pigs free range each year and have them butchered and cured.

Now that’s ham, the other commercial shed reared stuff is a pale comparison to it.

I can vouch for this speaking from experience. Same with the rashers and sausages, no comparison whatsoever.

What a joy to cook rashers without any of that white scum on top of them as they get hot. That's the chemicals that preserve.

kneemos

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Had a pet pig a while ago.Lovely intelligent animal with a wicked sense of humour.
Sheep and cows you see grazing in the fields,but for all the pork that is eaten,when was the last time you saw a herd of pigs frollicking in the sun.

Cows are factory reared also except for a few places like Ireland and the UK.

zapitastas

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Same here, I saw some piglets playing with each other a few years ago, they're just like puppies. Haven't eaten pork in a few years, I get sad even thinking about their existences
I've never seen free range pork in Ireland mind.

There is a butcher in enniskillen that has an island on the erne that is populated only by his pigs. They end up in his butchers shop but at least they had a good quality of life before that

dxhound2005

If you can believe Bradys, their ham does not seem to be the sweepings of the floor. And according to the ingredients it takes 115 g of pork to make 100 g of ham.

https://www.bradyfamily.ie/our-range/carvery/#1538476218297-73e02970-4f89

Cooked and hand glazed in a traditional way with over 40 years’ experience, from one single pork muscle. Made From Cured Irish Pork.

Our 3 day curing method allows the ham to slowly mature, giving it a more delicate and distinctive flavour. We then steam cook the ham slowly before expertly finishing each ham by hand. So you are always left with the highest quality traditional Irish ham.

Rows Grower

zoe 3619 wrote: »

Had a pet pig a while ago.Lovely intelligent animal with a wicked sense of humour.
Sheep and cows you see grazing in the fields,but for all the pork that is eaten,when was the last time you saw a herd of pigs frollicking in the sun.

We've had two miniature pet pigs over the years, one of them broke our hearts constantly wrecking any gardening efforts so we gave it to a farmer friend of ours for rooting around a rough field and the other one though it was a terrier.

It slept with in a kennel with a terrier, ate and played with it, and just did everything the terrier did only about 30-60 seconds behind the pace.

They had the exact same coloring as well, all black with a white patch on the neck/chest.

Rows Grower

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'd have to check the list I got when I got a herd number for pigs to be 100% sure but I'm not going to do that.

There is no probably about it though.

The problem isn't with some butcher who has a licence to slaughter a few pigs a year, that's great.

But the bulk of the work, all of the slaughtering by the big farmers is done by only a few abbatoirs. The company my relative occasionally works in slaughters thousands in a day.

It takes a lot to shock a vet with twenty-odd years experience of doing slaughterhouse inspections. As a farmer, yoy must know vets who do this work, have a word with them.

It's also quite ironic, but not very relevant, that the only vet that ever lays a hand on these pigs is the one that *might* inspect their carcass. There are a tiny number of pig vets in the country, and they deal with whole herds, they don't treat individual pigs. That means bacterial infections and parasites can be rampant before they're detected. It's all quite concerning from a public health viewpoint.

Obviously that doesn't apply to someone who is just keeping a few pigs, but they're the extreme minority.

jbt123

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

No it all isnt. Like everything there's ****e and there's good stuff. And there's also stuff in between, whatever you're trying to peddle.

Nothing like a bit ham with some bread.. I'm sure you'll agree Mr. Brennan.

OldMrBrennan83

jbt123 wrote: »

Nothing like a bit ham with some bread.. I'm sure you'll agree Mr. Brennan.

Pat the Baker white sliced pan. Can't be beat.

_Brian

Waiting on sausage making equipment to arrive here and then we can make sausages ourselves.
I’ll be like a feckin kid at Christmas 🎄

The Rape of Lucretia

Muahahaha wrote: »

I dont think Ive ever seen any food product advertised so widely and consistently on tv/radio as you do ham. Between Bradys Family ham, Dennys Deli style Crumbled Ham, Shaws Hand Carved ham, Carrolls Traditional Ham, O'Heliheys Cooked SLiced Ham, it goes on and on.

The way business seems to be these days for mass market products, I wouldnt be surprise if they actually all come from one global company called 'United Aliments Consortium' or the like, that they all come out of one factory, and the names were devised in a marketing board room in Tennessee.

Overall, its a sign of a declining market I would say, an effort to counter the fact that its now widely known that processed meets are bad for you, and you shouldnt be touching them with a barge pole, no matter how well acted the 'local, friendly, know-to-the-town-for-generations' smiling man in an apron in an ad is.

fussyonion

Muahahaha wrote: »

I know some people dont like fat running through it but wouldnt that be a sign that it was sliced off a single piece of the pig like the leg rather than being some kind of factory pressed reformed ham made from all the innards and entrails?

I take your point but I gag eating fat