The Irish Ham wars

dxhound2005

_Brian wrote: »

Yep.
Heavily processed foods should be kept to a minimum but everythingi in moderation.

I don't know what heavily processed means, but simply smoking meat makes it dangerous to human health.

_Brian

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know what heavily processed means, but simply smoking meat makes it dangerous to human health.

Ya know “dangerous” is thrown around lots possibly overused. Your health depends on a wealth of factors including risk and luck.

Read an article recently stating that we should stop using glyphosate as its anclass twi carcenogem, fair enough, sounds bad, but that puts it in same carcinogenic risk level as working shifts which I’ve done for 13 years.

Still say all foods in moderation is a safe approach, eating as wide a selection as possible including meats, dairy, fruit and veg.

The Rape of Lucretia

_Brian wrote: »

Yep.
Heavily processed foods should be kept to a minimum but everythingi in moderation.

In moderation, just means the harm is moderate. But its still harm, or taking a risk of harm. Public health advice tends to avoid outright recommendations to stop consumption, under pressure to avoid putting industries out of business, and there is a point where the effects of low consumption become statistically undetectable and so scientifically produce an answer of correlation unproven. But really, its just that the effect, or risk, is below the detectable level. Not its non-existant.

elperello

If you really must have a ham sandwich buy a nice piece of gammon and cook it yourself.
Then slice it thin as you are able with a good heavy sharp knife.
Put that in bread of your choice and that's the business.

gozunda

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know what heavily processed means, but simply smoking meat makes it dangerous to human health.

Smoking was a traditional method of preservation of various meats and other foodstuffs before refrigeration became common.

Many processed meats are 'smoked although the smoking process may be flavour only tbh

The World Health Organisation (WHO) have stated that:

Could you quantify the risk of eating ...processed meat?

The consumption of processed meat was associated with small increases in the risk of cancer in the studies reviewed. In those studies, the risk generally increased with the amount of meat consumed. An analysis of data from 10 studies estimated that every 50 gram portion of processed meat eaten daily increases the risk of colorectal cancer by about 18%.

Thats it.

If you like either processed or smoked foods (whether that's meat or any other type of food) its recommended to limit your intake.

_Brian

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

In moderation, just means the harm is moderate. But its still harm, or taking a risk of harm. Public health advice tends to avoid outright recommendations to stop consumption, under pressure to avoid putting industries out of business, and there is a point where the effects of low consumption become statistically undetectable and so scientifically produce an answer of correlation unproven. But really, its just that the effect, or risk, is below the detectable level. Not its non-existant.

I take risks of harm every day on the road, at work and farming, one has to assess their risk levels and be comfortable.
Eating ham once a week is grand, I’m comfortable with that “risk” in my life to get some nutritious delicious locally produced food.

I could eat loads of avocados and palm oil and end up being killed on a flood from global warming having never had a bit of delicious ham again.


I say again, the best approach is a wide and varied diet, loads of fruit and veg, meat and dairy products are excellent nutritious foods. Trying to eat as many different types of foods as possible including nuts and grains.

dxhound2005

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

In moderation, just means the harm is moderate. But its still harm, or taking a risk of harm. Public health advice tends to avoid outright recommendations to stop consumption, under pressure to avoid putting industries out of business, and there is a point where the effects of low consumption become statistically undetectable and so scientifically produce an answer of correlation unproven. But really, its just that the effect, or risk, is below the detectable level. Not its non-existant.

Advice to completely stop consumption of whole food groups is quite common from non government actors. Do you think this is somehow a safer approach? Which food groups do you avoid in your quest to be risk free when you eat.

gozunda

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Advice to completely stop consumption of whole food groups is quite common from non government actors. Do you think this is somehow a safer approach? Which food groups do you avoid in your quest to be risk free when you eat.

Which non government actors?

_Brian

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Advice to completely stop consumption of whole food groups is quite common from non government actors. Do you think this is somehow a safer approach? Which food groups do you avoid in your quest to be risk free when you eat.

Whack job cults saying to stop eating food groups are just idiots and shouldn’t be given air time at all.

Rows Grower

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I don't know what heavily processed means, but simply smoking meat makes it dangerous to human health.

Cold beer isn't good for you either but use it to wash back some smoked venison and you'll stop worrying about the things that could happen, if only for a little while.

dxhound2005

gozunda wrote: »

Which non government actors?

People on Boards and other internet sources who think that bread is a poison.

OldMrBrennan83

Give it enough time and some media whore/crackpot somewhere will tell you that absolutely everything is bad for you. Best bet is to live your life because you're going down eventually anyway. That's the only real truth.

Rows Grower

Rows Grower wrote: »

No one gets a licence to slaughter a few pigs a year, you are either licenced to slaughter pigs or you are not.

I know that, I'm saying the problem isn't with a butcher who has a licence and only slaughters a few.
The problem is with the fact that there is a tiny number of firms slaughtering thousands in a day. I'd have to check this figure, but I think the one my relative is involved with does 15,000 killings of pigs a week.

That's a recipe for disaster if, as I'm told, lab tests for parasites routinely are ignored.

It's also not true what you are stating about veterinary inspections.

Can you be more specific?

Rows Grower

elperello wrote: »

If you really must have a ham sandwich buy a nice piece of gammon and cook it yourself.
Then slice it thin as you are able with a good heavy sharp knife.
Put that in bread of your choice and that's the business.

I seriously need to invest in a small cold meat slicer if anyone can recommend one. I can't cut cooked meat straight no matter how sharp the knife.

dxhound2005

Ham is probably made from horses, so it would be safer than the stuff made from pigs.

gozunda

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Give it enough time and some media whore/crackpot somewhere will tell you that absolutely everything is bad for you. Best bet is to live your life because you're going down eventually anyway. That's the only real truth.

I think someone has referred to this kinda thing as secular religion - where a new morality is pushed by single issue groups who want things they dont like to be deemed 'bad' and banned.

Such 'Sinners' are pilloried because they are 'bad' people who deserve opprobrium. Chrixst I'd prefer to die happy than a miserable cnut anyday. .

Rows Grower

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I know that, I'm saying the problem isn't with a butcher who has a licence and only slaughters a few.
The problem is with the fact that there is a tiny number of firms slaughtering thousands in a day. I'd have to check this figure, but I think the one my relative is involved with does 15,000 killings of pigs a week.

That's a recipe for disaster if, as I'm told, lab tests for parasites routinely are ignored.



Can you be more specific?

Look, it's obvious you believe your relation is working in the job from hell.

That might well be but it's not the same everywhere, you're making very broad sweeping statements that are not factual, I pulled you up, that's it really.

You carry on believing what you are told and I'll carry on believing what I know.

Rows Grower

Rows Grower wrote: »

Look, it's obvious you believe your relation is working in the job from hell.

That might well be but it's not the same everywhere, you're making very broad sweeping statements that are not factual, I pulled you up, that's it really.

You carry on believing what you are told and I'll carry on believing what I know.

Sure you'd be a fool to believe something you've just heard on the Internet without questioning it.

Similarly, I take the word of what I'm told personally over something I'm told online. She's not doing a job from hell, it's a job that most vets do at some point. It doesn't affect my relative in any personal way, it's just a worrying situation that low standards exist in that kind of industrial pork production.

All I suggest is that if you're curious, ask a vet you know and trust about the industry. All vets are obliged (as students, at least) to have spent time working in an abbatoir and on a pig farm.

elperello

Rows Grower wrote: »

I seriously need to invest in a small cold meat slicer if anyone can recommend one. I can't cut cooked meat straight no matter how sharp the knife.

Then you will have to clean the slicer and unless you are very keen on ham sandwiches it will be a chore.
Good heavy sharp knife and slow and steady. You will get better with practice.

Rows Grower

elperello wrote: »

Then you will have to clean the slicer and unless you are very keen on ham sandwiches it will be a chore.
Good heavy sharp knife and slow and steady. You will get better with practice.

I've thought about this elperello, I need a slicer.

Oxter

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Anyone who’s eating that muck thinking it’s some sort of “gourmet” product is deluded. That stuff is sprayed off the pig carcass, swept off the floor and hammered into ham slices. The idea it’s sliced from a pig is laughable.

Some of those competitors are probably getting the processed ham from the same factories and just stamping their logo on it. Brady’s doesn’t run their business out of the grandfather’s shed.

Those lads in factories are smart, they don’t waste anything. The only part of the pig that’s left is the bung, the arsehole. Don’t think there’s a market for it here but places in the States have been getting away with selling it on as imitation calamari but not labelling it as imitation.

100% pork means 100% pig, which includes hooves, lips, udders, rectums etc.

fin12

Muahahaha wrote: »

I dont think Ive ever seen any food product advertised so widely and consistently on tv/radio as you do ham. Between Bradys Family ham, Dennys Deli style Crumbled Ham, Shaws Hand Carved ham, Carrolls Traditional Ham, O'Heliheys Cooked SLiced Ham, it goes on and on. Rarely a day goes by you dont hear an advertisement for ham but you rarely hear much for chicken, pork, beef, lamb etc.

I cant even remember the last time I bought any kind of sliced ham. Maybe I'm missing something here, is the rest of the nation completely obsessed with ham or something? The amount of advertising certainly seems to suggest so.

Just saw that the company behind Carrolls Ham in Tullamore sold in 2015 for €40m. Is ham some kind of black gold for the Irish? And ultimately who comes out top in the Irish Ham wars?

I think sliced smoked ham is nice, there’s lovely ones in Aldi. I only eat sliced ham really when I’m having it with coleslaw in a sandwich.

Rubberchikken

good ham from the butchers makes lively sambos.
even the german baked ham in aldi is better than dennys galtee etc.

Gwynplaine

Packet ham is awful stuff. Plastic.
Get the good stuff from the butchers. Cant bate it.

fin12

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Same here, I saw some piglets playing with each other a few years ago, they're just like puppies. Haven't eaten pork in a few years, I get sad even thinking about their existences
I've never seen free range pork in Ireland mind.

The way the female pigs are treated is sickening, they are basically pregnant their entire lives and chained up, so they don’t crush the piglets.

Piglets then have their front teeth broken and their tails burned off.

fin12

fin12 wrote: »

Piglets then have their front teeth broken and their tails burned off.

Without anaesthetic.

I'm conscious of harking on about this in case someone genuinely thinks I'm a vegan or whatever (I love meat), but this is the problem with pig farming.

If your local farmer was ripping out calves' teeth with a pair of pliars, or burning the tails off his cattle with a hot iron, and no pain relief, someone would say, 'Ah here Tom, you'll have to cut that out'.

With such a tiny number of pig farmers (almost nobody on this thread will personally know an intensive pig farmer) these things happen indoors, away from public gaze and public comment.

The industry is a genuinely brutal one. The only pig farmer I trust is one with less than 500 pigs (and they are a minority)

fin12

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Without anaesthetic.

I'm conscious of harking on about this in case someone genuinely thinks I'm a vegan or whatever (I love meat), but this is the problem with pig farming.

If your local farmer was ripping out calves' teeth with a pair of pliars, or burning the tails off his cattle with a hot iron, and no pain relief, someone would say, 'Ah here Tom, you'll have to cut that out'.

With such a tiny number of pig farmers (almost nobody on this thread will personally know an intensive pig farmer) these things happen indoors, away from public gaze and public comment.

The industry is a genuinely brutal one. The only pig farmer I trust is one with less than 500 pigs (and they are a minority)

I don’t know, I studied Agricultural science and ud study the different farming industries, I remember reading these about pig farming as Ifelt their existence really is horrible.

Sheep breeder

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The problem isn't with some butcher who has a licence to slaughter a few pigs a year, that's great.

But the bulk of the work, all of the slaughtering by the big farmers is done by only a few abbatoirs. The company my relative occasionally works in slaughters thousands in a day.

It takes a lot to shock a vet with twenty-odd years experience of doing slaughterhouse inspections. As a farmer, yoy must know vets who do this work, have a word with them.

It's also quite ironic, but not very relevant, that the only vet that ever lays a hand on these pigs is the one that *might* inspect their carcass. There are a tiny number of pig vets in the country, and they deal with whole herds, they don't treat individual pigs. That means bacterial infections and parasites can be rampant before they're detected. It's all quite concerning from a public health viewpoint.

Obviously that doesn't apply to someone who is just keeping a few pigs, but they're the extreme minority.

That’s a good bottle of wine your on to night and making you fantasied about what you thing goes on in pig factory, animals are pre slaughter checked by vet staff to one of the highest standards in Europe. Ireland is one of the biggest exporter of high health status breeding pigs and one of the market leaders in breeding boars in the world. If you ever visited a piggery the health and management and facilities are second to none and hygiene and disease levels are huge. So to come on here and run down the industry and what your family member does an odd time in a pig factory is a joke.

fin12

fin12 wrote: »

I don’t know, I studied Agricultural science and ud study the different farming industries, I remember reading these about pig farming as Ifelt their existence really is horrible.

Everyone connected to farming seems to know about it.

You'd wonder why some Department (of Ag) inspector isn't rocking up to some pig farm saying "You have 3,000 very young pigs with teeth extracted and tails cut, can you show us your veterinary records for anaesthetic?"

Simple job. Civil officials do public checks all the time in other spheres of life. It seems like nobody is paying these guys much attention.

There are plenty of chancers in the industry, but I don't think there's corruption. It must just be a lack of initiative, I reckon.

Sheep breeder

Sheep breeder wrote: »

That’s a good bottle of wine your on to night and making you fantasied about what you thing goes on in pig factory,

If I was some fantasist, I wouldn't have been able to tell you the fact that Vet Inspectors don't have control of the labs, or the daily kill-rate in one company (anyone familiar with the industry will immediately know the company) or the specific parasite tests that happen there (rather, tests that should happen there and are ignored, or partially ignored).

You don't have to believe me, but I wouldn't say these things without having someone reliable and professional in my life who is worried about them. I've also been around here long enough to know that people who make up those details are quickly put in their place.

I'm telling you what a very responsible person is telling me. If you have doubts, approach any vet you know. They have all worked in these places, and were obliged to in their training.