Time to create our own Political Party

Shefwedfan

So new day, same issues


Local children play area closing because it can't get insurance
Car insurance for myself has come in and sky rocketed
3 billion on firing out broadband to a few homes
I dont know what current figure is for a hospital
No resolution or plan for housing issue
They call green crisis and 6,yes 6, of them are in the bloody Dail
HSE is a mess



Is it time people stood together and created a new political party? Just general off the street people and decide to run and get the locals to support. at the moment we have


Fine Gael: Dont know how long in power but they have done f**k all. Project after project is a disaster.

Fine Fail: no better that the other clowns
Labour: are they even around anymore? useless when they got some power
Green party:disaster, local guy posting about how he is supporting building a road...not very green
People before Profit: idiots....
Sine Fein: no idea what they are doing, best part of f**k all.


The question is would the Irish people do it? if you talk in Europe and this was going on in any other country they place would burning with riots etc. Governments thrown out. In Ireland we just keep going and let them do what they want....


Is it time to pull together and create our own party? dump the current lot and leave them in the last century?

KikiLaRue

Do you have any ideas for how to make things better?

Pointing out the problems is the easy part, there’s no point forming a party unless you’ve got well thought through, viable solutions.

Badly Drunk Boy

What are your policies on knife crime?

"Down with the Blades!!"

EmmetSpiceland

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Do you have any ideas for how to make things better?

Pointing out the problems is the easy part, there’s no point forming a party unless you’ve got well thought through, viable solutions.

It’s worked well enough for the far left ones.

KikiLaRue

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

It’s worked well enough for the far left ones.

The last thing we need is another AAA PBP XYZ.

In fact, that’s exactly my point. They’ve achieved F all.

Wheeliebin30

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So new day, same issues


Local children play area closing because it can't get insurance
Car insurance for myself has come in and sky rocketed
3 billion on firing out broadband to a few homes
I dont know what current figure is for a hospital
No resolution or plan for housing issue
They call green crisis and 6,yes 6, of them are in the bloody Dail
HSE is a mess



Is it time people stood together and created a new political party? Just general off the street people and decide to run and get the locals to support. at the moment we have


Fine Gael: Dont know how long in power but they have done f**k all. Project after project is a disaster.

Fine Fail: no better that the other clowns
Labour: are they even around anymore? useless when they got some power
Green party:disaster, local guy posting about how he is supporting building a road...not very green
People before Profit: idiots....
Sine Fein: no idea what they are doing, best part of f**k all.


The question is would the Irish people do it? if you talk in Europe and this was going on in any other country they place would burning with riots etc. Governments thrown out. In Ireland we just keep going and let them do what they want....


Is it time to pull together and create our own party? dump the current lot and leave them in the last century?

Broadband to a few homes?

People just dismiss anything theses days to have a pop at the government.

Populist nonsense.

BeerWolf

You lost my vote. I want broadband, thanks.

Ulysses Gaze

"Our Country is in serious trouble...."

paw patrol

i admire your spirit OP

but given the polls in Dublin (for example) have Francis of the lost emails Fitzgerald of FG and Barry Andrews of FF riding high in the MEP polls I suspect (very sadly) that the people you think will follow you are happy with the status quo.

I often despair at elections and referendums at the lack of backbone the irish masses have to make real change.

The odd time you get a left field person elected but its rare.
Then we moan about the state of the place - we get the politicians we deserve

paw patrol

BeerWolf wrote: »

You lost my vote. I want broadband, thanks.

I want you to have your broadband but you gotta admit it's a costly beast and probably could have been a lot cheaper.
Pity there is no change to the culture where these companies know that they on easy street with a state contract and everybody gets a slice

Shefwedfan

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Do you have any ideas for how to make things better?

Pointing out the problems is the easy part, there’s no point forming a party unless you’ve got well thought through, viable solutions.

Some idea's.


But again a party would need to discuss them.

My job is to find problem and get create a resolution, part of that cycle is a review board when you get told if you are mad....so yes I have solutions, are they viable? no idea yet

The Rape of Lucretia

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Is it time to pull together and create our own party? dump the current lot and leave them in the last century?

You are just making the same mistake that others have already made - thinking a new political party will change something. The existing parties are already the people coming together to create their own party. You have plenty of them.

The problem isnt that lack of the right party. Its the Irish people themselves. The country is democratic. Those elected are chosen by the common man. Anyone can stand. So you get the govt that reflects the ability of the people to govern themselves. As you note, in the Irish case, not very well. Until the people of the country are of a higher standard, both to govern, and to elect the right people, then there will be no improvement of the standard of elected representatives, and as a result, in the standard of government.

The last thing people need are more of the same people creating yet another part, and standing for election, giving, yet again, the false illusion that they are any better.

People like to criticism politicians and political parties - what they are doing without realising it, is just criticising their own shortcomings.

KikiLaRue

paw patrol wrote: »

I often despair at elections and referendums at the lack of backbone the irish masses have to make real change.

The odd time you get a left field person elected but its rare.
Then we moan about the state of the place - we get the politicians we deserve

In my lifetime we’ve used referenda to introduce divorce, legalise gay marriage and abortion, and this month we’ll most likely vote to make divorce easier.

I take your point to a degree about elections, but not referenda.

Shefwedfan

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Broadband to a few homes?

People just dismiss anything theses days to have a pop at the government.

Populist nonsense.

I live in the area not supported by Broadband, my whole family lives in an area not supported by broadband.

My wife family lives in area not supported by BB....based in West, North West, centre and east of Ireland. Good coverage would you say?

3 billion is not a solution.

We have all invested in a SIM from different mobile companies. I acquired osme equipement from overseas. Less than 150 euro for each house. All of us now have BB, I have 3 TV's streaming at the minute....I work from home 3-4 days a week. My brother and wife work from home daily. All of us using online application which require decent BB

So what is nonsense?

JohnnyFlash

paw patrol wrote: »

i admire your spirit OP

but given the polls in Dublin (for example) have Francis of the lost emails Fitzgerald of FG and Barry Andrews of FF riding high in the MEP polls I suspect (very sadly) that the people you think will follow you are happy with the status quo.

I often despair at elections and referendums at the lack of backbone the irish masses have to make real change.

The odd time you get a left field person elected but its rare.
Then we moan about the state of the place - we get the politicians we deserve

People vote for FF and FG because they are the two parties who have ruled since the foundation of the State, and we live in one of the fairest, wealthiest, and safest countries in the world. They don’t want to vote in large numbers for far left or far right nutjobs.I wouldn’t underestimate the populace at all. Their ability to reject extremism is to be admired.

Shefwedfan

Berties_Horse wrote: »

A dubious premise, I hereby resign my membership.

I am not asking you to vote for me, the point is to create a party rather than use the current ones.


I dont see a politician from one year to the next. Suddenly a flood of posters up and videos all over facebook about how they are doing up the roads etc....


A few weeks they will be gone, roads will return to pot hole hell and wont change till next election

KikiLaRue

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So what is nonsense?

Most of your post tbh.

Ooh, THREE televisions streaming.

I’m sure that will impress global companies when we’re trying to convince them to invest outside of Dublin.

The Rape of Lucretia

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont see a politician from one year to the next.

Nor should you. If you meet them, then they arent where they should be - governing. Of course you will have the crazies of Kerry electing and seeing the likes of the pantomine joke candidates like the Healy-Raes all the time at every funeral, ribbon cut, and U15 football game shaking hands whether people want to with them or not. But thats not doing anything to improve the country, thats just being gombeens.

Collie D

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nor should you. If you meet them, then they arent where they should be - governing. Of course you will have the crazies of Kerry electing and seeing the likes of the pantomine joke candidates like the Healy-Raes all the time at every funeral, ribbon cut, and U15 football game shaking hands whether people want to with them or not. But thats not doing anything to improve the country, thats just being gombeens.

Saved me the effort of posting. TDs are there to run the country, councillors to get the potholes fixed and **** knows what MEPs do.

paw patrol

KikiLaRue wrote: »

In my lifetime we’ve used referenda to introduce divorce, legalise gay marriage and abortion, and this month we’ll most likely vote to make divorce easier.

I take your point to a degree about elections, but not referenda.

depends on your view on those social issues but in any of those votes (bar abortion) there wasn't much opposition to these changes...they pretty much following the herd.
I remember the divorce referendum in 1986 and it was a different beast.
But I was talking though in terms of politics.

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

People vote for FF and FG because they are the two parties who have ruled since the foundation of the State, and we live in one of the fairest, wealthiest, and safest countries in the world. They don’t want to vote in large numbers for far left or far right nutjobs.I wouldn’t underestimate the populace at all. Their ability to reject extremism is to be admired.

That is a decent point but I'm not in agreement. I think they win cos they cover the centre were most people reside...because they aren't war mongers doesn't mean they aren't good at governing.
And tbh the 1970s and the arms trial isn't that long ago if we are talking (as you mention) "since the foundation of the state"


There has been a lot of corruption and financial mismanagement under these parties. Not to mention a particular bug bear of mine , financing (via tax) quangos and lobby groups who are staffed pretty much by politicians pals and media hacks. In essence tax money for PR and jobs for their pals.


If we had another central middle of the road party not mired in bad governance and corruption would we vote differently? I'm not sure.

Shefwedfan

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Most of your post tbh.

Ooh, THREE televisions streaming.

I’m sure that will impress global companies when we’re trying to convince them to invest outside of Dublin.

Thanks for your lovely contribution


Have a look at Siro, any global company will be plugging into that and it has nothing to do with the NBP

dxhound2005

There are probably over 20 parties at present, and dozens more which have come and gone over the years. Why would another one change anything?

Shefwedfan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are probably over 20 parties at present, and dozens more which have come and gone over the years. Why would another one change anything?

Most of those parties have been XYZ who didn't get a seat with FF/FG so decided to go solo...nothing new, just rehash what they seen in a FF/FG meeting and try to look good.....

dxhound2005

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Most of those parties have been XYZ who didn't get a seat with FF/FG so decided to go solo...nothing new, just rehash what they seen in a FF/FG meeting and try to look good.....

Have you really researched all the parties policies? Direct Democracy sound like the sort of outfit that would suit you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

suicide_circus

BeerWolf wrote: »

You lost my vote. I want broadband, thanks.

do you live in a palatial bungalow with Graeco-Roman columns standing on 4 acers ?

dxhound2005

The new party is split already.

KikiLaRue

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Most of those parties have been XYZ who didn't get a seat with FF/FG so decided to go solo...nothing new, just rehash what they seen in a FF/FG meeting and try to look good.....

And how would yours be different?

The most viable party that has emerged in the last few years has been the Social Democrats.

They have actual policies and a vision.

I think they’ll probably do well in the locals.

Igotadose

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Of course you will have the crazies of Kerry electing and seeing the likes of the pantomine joke candidates like the Healy-Raes all the time at every funeral, ribbon cut, and U15 football game shaking hands whether people want to with them or not. But thats not doing anything to improve the country, thats just being gombeens.

I live in West Kerry and loath the healy-rae's. However, longer-term residents adore them. Not for their right-wing pro-Catholic Church politics.

Because if you phone them, they ring you back. If your road needs a repair and the county council can't get to it, you call Michael Healy-Rae's office, and on his way to work in a few days, he phones you from the car and dispatches an underling to deal with it.

There are way too many of these Healy-Raes in politics, they're all over the county council and so on, but you have to respect how they do their jobs. They're hands-on, good or bad. They should just stfu about climate, Trump, religion, etc. and keep the roads repaired, the bridges replaced, fiber optic run out to rural areas, etc.

dxhound2005

Here is an idea which hasn't been tried before. In theory national politicians should be the top of the food chain in the public service. But compared to private business their wages are a pittance.

How about paying the Taoiseach €2 million a year, Ministers 1.5 and TD's 1 million. That could attract the sort of talent which would change the country for the better?

Shefwedfan

Igotadose wrote: »

I live in West Kerry and loath the healy-rae's. However, longer-term residents adore them. Not for their right-wing pro-Catholic Church politics.

Because if you phone them, they ring you back. If your road needs a repair and the county council can't get to it, you call Michael Healy-Rae's office, and on his way to work in a few days, he phones you from the car and dispatches an underling to deal with it.

There are way too many of these Healy-Raes in politics, they're all over the county council and so on, but you have to respect how they do their jobs. They're hands-on, good or bad. They should just stfu about climate, Trump, religion, etc. and keep the roads repaired, the bridges replaced, fiber optic run out to rural areas, etc.

The Healy-Rae do a good job for a few people in Kerry. Everyone says that.


The problem is they are useless for Ireland. An embrassment to be honest

KikiLaRue

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here is an idea which hasn't been tried before. In theory national politicians should be the top of the food chain in the public service. But compared to private business their wages are a pittance.

How about paying the Taoiseach €2 million a year, Ministers 1.5 and TD's 1 million. That could attract the sort of talent which would change the country for the better?

Paying politicians more (probably not as much as you mentioned) is actually a good idea. It’d never fly with the public, but we need to find ways to attract ireland’s brightest and best.

Having said that, civil servants are more responsible for most policy than politicians, and a lot of our legislation is related to EU directives, so I’m not sure how much difference it would make.

Wanderer78

A boards political party, fcuk sake, we d kill each other!

Sonny noggs

A supermax prison with 50,000 plus capacity, lock up anyone with more than 10 convictions for the remainder of their life. Gradually reduce to 5 convictions.

Shefwedfan

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Here is an idea which hasn't been tried before. In theory national politicians should be the top of the food chain in the public service. But compared to private business their wages are a pittance.

How about paying the Taoiseach €2 million a year, Ministers 1.5 and TD's 1 million. That could attract the sort of talent which would change the country for the better?

I think you will find our politicians are one of the highest paid in the World.....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_salaries_of_heads_of_state_and_government

_Kaiser_

Berties_Horse wrote: »

Coming from a staunch FG mouthpiece, I'll take that with a shovel of salt.

There's a few alright and they always appear to defend FG regardless..

Latest IT reports show another significant decline in support for FG and Leo personally (who has the honour of being even worse than his recent predecessors IMO), but the bigger issue is that they are FF are hovering at 29/26% each, the Independents at 22%, with Labour and SF then make up another 23% between them.

It's clear that the people want change but there's no clear winner. Certain posters will spin that FG are the most popular/biggest party but this is more the result of piss-poor opposition than actual support - FG are seen as the "least worst" of the choices we have.

It also means that the current fractured and ineffective mess will drag on for the foreseeable future with FF and FG potentially swapping roles next time, but similarly dependent on each other unless they go into government with SF (unlikely) or get a gaggle of one-issue/ex-FF/FGers Independents, which isn't very inspiring when you think about the likes of Shane Ross or Zappone....

The real result of ALL of this is that Ireland will continue to have a Government that tinkers around the edges while the core issues get worse and more expensive (in social, not just financial terms), but which attempts to deflect the electorate with easy-win common sense referenda instead.
Meanwhile, in the larger world of Brexit, potential economic slowdown, immigration issues and increasing social unrest (and not just in Europe either as we've seen with threads here), we'll continue to be reactive and bit-part players led by our EU "friends".

What we need to do here is not create further fractures in our political landscape... we need to go "all in" on one or two of the existing parties and force them through proactive lobbying at the doors, to their offices etc, to get on with it!! The other part then is to hold them accountable throughout the life of the Government and at the next elections.

In other words, whether you support or would lean more towards FF or FG, pick one and vote for them with the clear expectation made that you want them to deal with these bigger issues for the interest of the country. Yes, I've excluded SF and the rest, but really - does ANYONE actually WANT them in Government except as a watchdog? (and to be fair they generally do that role well as we've seen countless times over the last 8 years).

Unless we collectively get past the immature politics of parochial, civil war, protest vote nonsense, and pick a side, we will find that the slide and divisions we're seeing socially and structurally will only get worse. More than that, we'll be increasingly isolated and ineffectual in a post-Brexit EU which will have wider implications on the future prosperity of the country as a whole.



TL;DR? It's not more division we need. We need to pick a side (there's only 2 in reality), vote for whichever you agree with most (differences are marginal) and GET INVOLVED in holding them accountable more than once every 5 years!
Don't do this, and watch the country fall apart in the coming years.

suicide_circus

Sonny noggs wrote: »

A supermax prison with 50,000 plus capacity, lock up anyone with more than 10 convictions for the remainder of their life. Gradually reduce to 5 convictions.

you'd need to put that on an island. i dont think spike island would hold 50 thousand though.

Mr_Man2121

Broadband to a few homes? There's 600,000 homes set to get good broadband with the NPB. Businesses won't come to rural towns without good internet and the government were refusing to give us good internet without having businesses. How do you plan to fix the other issues you mentioned?

jimmycrackcorm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

"Our Country is in serious trouble...."

I demand that we go back to how the country was in 209/09/2010. Housing crisis? Sure there was enough ghost estates that Margaret cash could have an individual house for every one of her kids

super_furry

I Can't Believe It's Not Renua.

KikiLaRue

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think you will find our politicians are one of the highest paid in the World.....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_salaries_of_heads_of_state_and_government

You missed the point. A fully qualified accountant working for the Big Four will be making well over €100k by 30.

So will anyone at Director/ VP level in a company.

CEOs make hundreds of thousands.

So how do we attract ireland’s smartest and most capable people into politics?

super_furry

Igotadose wrote: »

I live in West Kerry and loath the healy-rae's. However, longer-term residents adore them. Not for their right-wing pro-Catholic Church politics.

Because if you phone them, they ring you back. If your road needs a repair and the county council can't get to it, you call Michael Healy-Rae's office, and on his way to work in a few days, he phones you from the car and dispatches an underling to deal with it.

There are way too many of these Healy-Raes in politics, they're all over the county council and so on, but you have to respect how they do their jobs. They're hands-on, good or bad. They should just stfu about climate, Trump, religion, etc. and keep the roads repaired, the bridges replaced, fiber optic run out to rural areas, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl8OIZijjY

_Kaiser_

Mr_Man2121 wrote: »

Broadband to a few homes? There's 600,000 homes set to get good broadband with the NPB. Businesses won't come to rural towns without good internet and the government were refusing to give us good internet without having businesses. How do you plan to fix the other issues you mentioned?

It's a vote grabbing exercise, nothing more.

The country isn't big enough to support lots of medium-large businesses in every county and town, and even where there is decent broadband (take Portlaoise as an example), tens of thousands flock to Dublin daily. Similar story in Cork. Similar everywhere really!

We need to get over the notion that every small village or town with a gaggle of housing estates or one-offs outside it should get the same level of service as the larger towns and cities. Its not financially sustainable (as we've seen here with another spiralling bill) and ultimately it won't improve much anyway (as the low take up of services where they ARE available would prove).

BeerWolf

paw patrol wrote: »

I want you to have your broadband but you gotta admit it's a costly beast and probably could have been a lot cheaper.
Pity there is no change to the culture where these companies know that they on easy street with a state contract and everybody gets a slice

The gross incompetence (corruption) of this government is a bigger issue at how poorly they budget stuff, some of it whimsically.

I like the quote of the Government wasting money like a drunken sailor, unfair towards said sailors as at least it is their money.

KikiLaRue

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I demand that we go back to how the country was in 209/09/2010. Housing crisis? Sure there was enough ghost estates that Margaret cash could have an individual house for every one of her kids

I’m starting a “Margaret Cash” jar. Every time someone mentions her you have to put a euro in the jar. I’ll have her housed in no time.

Pherekydes

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

"Down with the Blades!!"

No, the Blades are back up! In the Premier league, that is.

Sonny noggs

suicide_circus wrote: »

you'd need to put that on an island. i dont think spike island would hold 50 thousand though.

Feck it, just purge them and save the expense of building the prison and keeping them alive for years.

Sonny noggs

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I’m starting a “Margaret Cash” jar. Every time someone mentions her you have to put a euro in the jar. I’ll have her housed in no time.

Pretty sure she already has her ‘forever home’ in her ‘hometown’ of Tallaght.

Be careful if you do go ahead with the jar idea. I hear she has sticky fingers when it comes to ‘pennies’.

Loafing Oaf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Is it time to pull together and create our own party? dump the current lot and leave them in the last century?

This is what every new party sets out to do, but they can't achieve anything unless they win actual votes and seats in the Dail. And none of them ever do, except to a limited extent on the left, where arguably it's the same product under a different brand. So at some point you are forced to conclude that people with conservative/centrist views are basically happy with what they are getting from FF and FG.

CelticRambler

Shefwedfan wrote: »

if you talk in Europe and this was going on in any other country they place would burning with riots etc. Governments thrown out. In Ireland we just keep going and let them do what they want....

You might prefer to see that greener grass burning in other countries, but I'd much rather my neighbours weren't setting fire to the nation's infrastructure and costing the taxpayer millions of euros in extra policing costs every single feckin' weekend because they've nothing better to do than mouth off about how the government's not looking after them, even though it's that very same government that subsidises just about every aspect of their lives. :mad:

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Paying politicians more ... is actually a good idea. ... we need to find ways to attract ireland’s brightest and best.

That's the argument used to justify paying senior consultants and top bankers and all kinds of other "brightest and best" people that are supposedly needed to efficiently and successfully run whatever they're put in charge of. It rarely works, and it's unlikely to work in politics either. Pay four people a quarter of the salary and you'll get far more done by people who actually want to do it for what it is, not for the money.

Shefwedfan

Mr_Man2121 wrote: »

Broadband to a few homes? There's 600,000 homes set to get good broadband with the NPB. Businesses won't come to rural towns without good internet and the government were refusing to give us good internet without having businesses. How do you plan to fix the other issues you mentioned?

Business won't go to rural towns because nobody is left in rural towns to work for them


Recent thread on the jobs forum, guy wants to work in rural Ireland but wants Dublin wages, so he commutes to Dublin and won't work with local companies because they give terrible wages.



Companies try to set up in rural Ireland to reduce cost and wages but the worker wants Dublin 4 wages while living in the arsehole of nowhere....

3 billion spent on broadband aint going to fix that.....


Maybe you have some idea's?

Pherekydes

KikiLaRue wrote: »

You missed the point. A fully qualified accountant working for the Big Four will be making well over €100k by 30.

So will anyone at Director/ VP level in a company.

CEOs make hundreds of thousands.

So how do we attract ireland’s smartest and most capable people into politics?

Are you suggesting that Michael Noonan, Bertie Ahern et al are amongst the smartest and most capable people in the country?