Time to create our own Political Party

Nobelium

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But they are a tiny number of the population, and just by sheer numbers there has to be a lot more shenanigans by those involved in private business.

Even where both sides are involved there has to be a dodgy builder for every dodgy planner or politician taking a brown envelope. And every dodgy journalist paying a dodgy Garda for inside information. The difference is that in business there will be lots of managers and editors who authorise this sort of thing, whereas it will usually be one bent individual on the public service side.

and who do you think has the most capacity to destroy a country ? a single bent planner or a single bent mininster that permits and fosters many bent planners among other things ?

MrMusician18

KikiLaRue wrote: »

And how would yours be different?

The most viable party that has emerged in the last few years has been the Social Democrats.

They have actual policies and a vision.

I think they’ll probably do well in the locals.

They lost my support when they backed the luas drivers ludicrous strike

dxhound2005

Nobelium wrote: »

and who do you think has the most capacity to destroy a country ? a single bent planner or a single bent mininster that permits and fosters many bent planners among other things ?

You say destroy a country and you used this phrase earlier fck up an entire country

What do you mean?

whisky_galore

KikiLaRue wrote: »

In my lifetime we’ve used referenda to introduce divorce, legalise gay marriage and abortion, and this month we’ll most likely vote to make divorce easier.

I take your point to a degree about elections, but not referenda.

The referenda voted upon recently were all safe horses to bet on at this stage. Govt see which way the wind blows and they go with it.

You won't find them putting up any sort of issue that will make them less popular to the general population, or conflict with vested interests.

The Rape of Lucretia

Jace Unkempt Retiree wrote: »

The solution may come in the way of independents (as demonstrated recently in the uk/ni by their widespread gains).

Independents are the sure sign of an inability of the people to vote.

Its just a childish protest vote, hero worship of some local notable even if that was only as a business man or football coach, support for cranks or novelty politicians like Mick Wallace, Ming, whatever Healy Rae you are having yourself. Not only is a complete waste of a vote, it its harmful to the responsible government of the country.

People see them as a protest against 'real' politicians, or the political parties. But takes no consideration of how thilts lone wolf might actually achieve anything, other than making government by the responsible people in power even more difficult.
Anyone voting for independents should have their fitness to vote evaluated.

dxhound2005

whisky_galore wrote: »

The referenda voted upon recently were all safe horses to bet on at this stage. Govt see which way the wind blows and they go with it.

You won't find them putting up any sort of issue that will make them less popular to the general population, or conflict with vested interests.

Vested interests usually have a vested interest in gaining extra money or protecting the money they have. And since financial matters cannot be the subject of a referendum this does not add up. The government did give us the choice to abolish the Seanad, against the vested interests of fellow politicians.

whisky_galore

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Vested interests usually have a vested interest in gaining extra money or protecting the money they have. And since financial matters cannot be the subject of a referendum this does not add up. The government did give us the choice to abolish the Seanad, against the vested interests of fellow politicians.

Failed politicians it must be said.

mickoneill31

whisky_galore wrote: »

The referenda voted upon recently were all safe horses to bet on at this stage. Govt see which way the wind blows and they go with it.

You won't find them putting up any sort of issue that will make them less popular to the general population, or conflict with vested interests.

So what you're saying is that the government brought in referenda that the people agreed with. I would have thought that's what they should do.

Can you give an example of a referendum that you think should be done but that would make them less popular with the population or that conflicts with vested interests?

ILoveYourVibes

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So new day, same issues


Local children play area closing because it can't get insurance
Car insurance for myself has come in and sky rocketed
3 billion on firing out broadband to a few homes
I dont know what current figure is for a hospital
No resolution or plan for housing issue
They call green crisis and 6,yes 6, of them are in the bloody Dail
HSE is a mess



Is it time people stood together and created a new political party? Just general off the street people and decide to run and get the locals to support. at the moment we have


Fine Gael: Dont know how long in power but they have done f**k all. Project after project is a disaster.

Fine Fail: no better that the other clowns
Labour: are they even around anymore? useless when they got some power
Green party:disaster, local guy posting about how he is supporting building a road...not very green
People before Profit: idiots....
Sine Fein: no idea what they are doing, best part of f**k all.


The question is would the Irish people do it? if you talk in Europe and this was going on in any other country they place would burning with riots etc. Governments thrown out. In Ireland we just keep going and let them do what they want....


Is it time to pull together and create our own party? dump the current lot and leave them in the last century?

I would advise you not to let me join i would be rubbish.

You are correct FG are the worst project managers as a govt. FF can't supervise or enforce the law enough to protect public assets .

The Rape of Lucretia

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You are correct FG are the worst project managers as a govt. FF can't supervise or enforce the law enough to protect public assets .

FG or FF as entities dont do anything. Its the people that are elected that do something. And if they do little or do it poorly, then its only the people who elected than that are to blame.
Nor is it the job of parties or politicians to project manage. That is the role of the civil service. But being drawn from the same well as the politicians, they arent, indeed, very good at it.

Until the Irish people wake up to the fact that they themselves are to blame for all that they like to bitch about and pass blame on to some other detached party, like politicians or parties, then their lot will not improve.

ILoveYourVibes

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

FG or FF as entities dont do anything. Its the people that are elected that do something. And if they do little or do it poorly, then its only the people who elected than that are to blame.
Nor is it the job of parties or politicians to project manage. That is the role of the civil service. But being drawn from the same well as the politicians, they arent, indeed, very good at it.

Until the Irish people wake up to the fact that they themselves are to blame for all that they like to bitch about and pass blame on to some other detached party, like politicians or parties, then their lot will not improve.

Not true. FG and FF elect a leader whoever wins enough seats etc that leader becomes Taoiseach that Taoiseach chooses a cabinet and forms a govt.

We don't directly elect a Taoiseach. That is the way our system works.

FG and FF are DIRECTLY responsible. We don't choose ministers.

We vote for a party. Not a leader. That is the system.

Fiddlesticks99

People get the government they deserve, nobody should be surprised with how the country is run, scandals, corruption etc.

ILoveYourVibes

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

People get the government they deserve, nobody should be surprised with how the country is run, scandals, corruption etc.

Welcome to boards Fiddlesticks


:-) that is a curious statement. Its along the lines of something Joseph De Maistre said.

The 'Just World' fallacy. The problem is it is a cognitive bias.


The Misconception: People who are losing at the game of life must have done something to deserve it.

The Truth: The beneficiaries of good fortune often do nothing to earn it, and bad people often get away with their actions without consequences.




It has no basis in reality.

But there is much reality to disprove it.

The people on trolleys the doctors tending to them the homeless crisis etc. Don't tell me those people don't deserve a better govt.

Even people who make mistakes when voting in this country. They deserve better.

Life is not fair. It is righteous to make it fair.

ILoveYourVibes

BTW I think i may have discovered where i might be of some use after all!

I may not be able to run anything but i think i could write some nice speeches!

Wheeliebin30

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Welcome to boards Fiddlesticks


:-) that is a curious statement. Its along the lines of something Joseph De Maistre said.

The 'Just World' fallacy. The problem is it is a cognitive bias.


The Misconception: People who are losing at the game of life must have done something to deserve it.

The Truth: The beneficiaries of good fortune often do nothing to earn it, and bad people often get away with their actions without consequences.




It has no basis in reality.

But there is much reality to disprove it.

The people on trolleys the doctors tending to them the homeless crisis etc. Don't tell me those people don't deserve a better govt.

Even people who make mistakes when voting in this country. They deserve better.

Life is not fair. It is righteous to make it fair.

There is no homeless crisis.

Just an entitlement culture.

When you’re born no one ever tells you life is going to be easy and you will have everything you want in life do they?

That’s not how life works. There is no rule book to what people are entitled too.

Sooner Irish people get that through their thick skulls the sooner the country will move forward.

Until then let’s blame da gubberment.

Fiddlesticks99

Thanks Vibes...

Not quite, i wasn't referring to specific groups or people in unfortunate situations as such, more of a commentary on society. Populations are shortsighted and want short term gains, like an extra fiver at budget time.

Unsurprisingly, the politicians that promise to keep them happy get into office. Society is to selfish to affect real change.

ILoveYourVibes

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There is no homeless crisis.

Just an entitlement culture.

When you’re born no one ever tells you life is going to be easy and you will have everything you want in life do they?

That’s not how life works. There is no rule book to what people are entitled too.

Sooner Irish people get that through their thick skulls the sooner the country will move forward.

Until then let’s blame da gubberment.

Saying something is entitlement culture is the essence of being self entitled.

The Rape of Lucretia

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The people on trolleys the doctors tending to them the homeless crisis etc. Don't tell me those people don't deserve a better govt.

Even people who make mistakes when voting in this country. They deserve better.

They dont. The politicians are only as good as the people. If the people were of better calibre, there would be better candidates to run affairs, and the people would know how to vote.

As it is, the candidates are of low quality, because they are from the same stock as the voters. And the voters are unable to vote intelligently.

They could make, rather than being caught up with blaming some 'other', as that is no more than what 'deserving' is, better voting decisions, and the situation would improve. There is little sign of that at the moment. As shown by the resistance to even accept that the voter is the problem rather than the politician, or that foggy entities like big bad parties, are to blame for what is unfavourable.

Wheeliebin30

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Saying something is entitlement culture is the essence being self entitled.

Oh right cheers for that.

smurgen

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Oh right cheers for that.

You sound like a ****

Fiddlesticks99

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

They dont. The politicians are only as good as the people. If the people were of better calibre, there would be better candidates to run affairs, and the people would know how to vote.

As it is, the candidates are of low quality, because they are from the same stock as the voters. And the voters are unable to vote intelligently.

They could make, rather than being caught up with blaming some 'other', as that is no more than what 'deserving' is, better voting decisions, and the situation would improve. There is little sign of that at the moment. As shown by the resistance to even accept that the voter is the problem rather than the politician, or that foggy entities like big bad parties, are to blame for what is unfavourable.

Sad, but true

Wheeliebin30

smurgen wrote: »

You sound like a ****

Truth hurts ay.

Resorting to personal insults says a lot.

ILoveYourVibes

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

Thanks Vibes...

Not quite, i wasn't referring to specific groups or people in unfortunate situations as such, more of a commentary on society. Populations are shortsighted and want short term gains, like an extra fiver at budget time.

Unsurprisingly, the politicians that promise to keep them happy get into office. Society is to selfish to affect real change.

Ah i understand. I agree.

ILoveYourVibes

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

They dont. The politicians are only as good as the people. If the people were of better calibre, there would be better candidates to run affairs, and the people would know how to vote.

As it is, the candidates are of low quality, because they are from the same stock as the voters. And the voters are unable to vote intelligently.

They could make, rather than being caught up with blaming some 'other', as that is no more than what 'deserving' is, better voting decisions, and the situation would improve. There is little sign of that at the moment. As shown by the resistance to even accept that the voter is the problem rather than the politician, or that foggy entities like big bad parties, are to blame for what is unfavourable.

What is the solution?

Fiddlesticks99

Anarchy

ILoveYourVibes

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

There is no homeless crisis.

Just an entitlement culture.

When you’re born no one ever tells you life is going to be easy and you will have everything you want in life do they?

That’s not how life works. There is no rule book to what people are entitled too.

Sooner Irish people get that through their thick skulls the sooner the country will move forward.

Until then let’s blame da gubberment.

Would you agree there is a housing shortage?

ILoveYourVibes

Fiddlesticks99 wrote: »

Anarchy

I'm in! :cool:

Wheeliebin30

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Would you agree there is a housing shortage?

I dunno.

Only 2012 and we had too many houses.

What happened in 6 years to cause a housing shortage?

Fiddlesticks99

LoL :-)

ChikiChiki

I think Social Democrats could be a real alternative. They just need more people to get on board and get their voices heard.

They are the only ones I feel have potential and capability to make real change happen. The rest are fairly populist with no substance, same as what we have in power really.

One thing is for sure, I would love to see the day when both FF and FG are on single figure seats. They are absolutely shambolic in their modern forms.