Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Shefwedfan

Premiership rugby has lots of money but is poor. BT sports trying to big it up doesn't work either. The whole thing could collapse as well, RFU has no interest in saving it. I cant see how BT are making big money on it? they dont seem to announce any yearly numbers of viewers I can find? which would suggest it is fairly poor

Interested Observer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Premiership rugby has lots of money but is poor. BT sports trying to big it up doesn't work either. The whole thing could collapse as well, RFU has no interest in saving it. I cant see how BT are making big money on it? they dont seem to announce any yearly numbers of viewers I can find? which would suggest it is fairly poor

I don't have any figures but I have heard plenty of times, including working for a company that advertised with them, that their viewership for football is very disappointing. I'm sure rugby is an order of magnitude smaller again.

Shefwedfan

Interested Observer wrote: »

I don't have any figures but I have heard plenty of times, including working for a company that advertised with them, that their viewership for football is very disappointing. I'm sure rugby is an order of magnitude smaller again.

One thing I find, even if a pub has BT sports, you go in and they will not even bother having the rugby on unless you ask....will have Sky Sports news on instead or something like that


Always a bad sign, especially when you think how much money Sky makes from Ireland

Thrashssacre

My own local will point blank refuse to stick on pro 14 matches even with irish provences in action if anything above league two is on the telly, bloody does my head in.

Shefwedfan

Thrashssacre wrote: »

My own local will point blank refuse to stick on pro 14 matches even with irish provences in action if anything above league two is on the telly, bloody does my head in.

You need a new local :-)

troyzer

Interested Observer wrote: »

I don't have any figures but I have heard plenty of times, including working for a company that advertised with them, that their viewership for football is very disappointing. I'm sure rugby is an order of magnitude smaller again.

The entire BT consumer business has contracted in recent years.

The Lost Sheep

Is this not better suited to general discussion thread?

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Maybe this is the opportunity needed to evolve the game. A B&I league or better, reform the global calendar

B&I league sounds great but how do you form it and what of championship sides in England who are pro and have aspirations of going up and can maintain that extra spending.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Premiership rugby has lots of money but is poor. BT sports trying to big it up doesn't work either. The whole thing could collapse as well, RFU has no interest in saving it. I cant see how BT are making big money on it? they dont seem to announce any yearly numbers of viewers I can find? which would suggest it is fairly poor

rfu do have interest in saving it as they cant afford for it to go down the drain.

Thrashssacre wrote: »

My own local will point blank refuse to stick on pro 14 matches even with irish provences in action if anything above league two is on the telly, bloody does my head in.

more people watch the soccer there then. My local used be like that but enough would go in to watch rugby so its changed now..

AbusesToilets

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

B&I league sounds great but how do you form it and what of championship sides in England who are pro and have aspirations of going up and can maintain that extra spending.

Probably just have to bite the bullet and restrict it along financial and infrastructural lines. Forego promotion and relegation all together, instead do it along the lines of franchise expansion, as seen in other sports. Conferences would be the best shout, structurally and from a representative perspective.

Richie_Rich89

Thinking about it, I feel it would be better to extend Dowling by a year rather than signing on Fardy for another season. Fardy staying on is diminishing returns with the quality of Toner, Ryan and Baird, and if Dowling gets more opportunities, who knows? - maybe he could turn out a bit like another Kevin McLaughlin. The story was that Cheika wasn't going to keep McLaughlin on until one big performance (v Glasgow, was it?). That just shows the fine lines involved here.

Signing Fardy when you know there'll be nothing further beyond next season and Toner, Ryan and Baird are good enough anyway versus signing up a guy who has his whole career ahead of him and could possibly turn out quite good.

BonnieSituation

Podge_irl wrote: »

The try conceded before halftime was the absolute worst. I though Sarries were fairly firm favourites going into the game to be honest, but when Leinster went 10-0 up I could never have envisaged them failing to score again. Such a shame we in all likelihood won't get the rematch now.

Kick the ball out LUKE!!!!

Buer

Well, after a completely hectic period with work, things have fallen off a cliff. I'm left with two options, provide bespoke, unrequested reports to the client to demonstrate our value and innovation.....or consider the best Leinster uncapped XV of the professional era.

Tough choice.

Given the fact that a significant percentage of contracted players get capped in Ireland, it's not going to be a particularly pretty team but lets see how it goes. Have tried to keep it to Irish guys even if we had a NIQ player who became IQ

1. Ronan McCormack. Solid all round prop. Like a budget Jack McGrath. Mulitple appearances at A level for Ireland. Peter Dooley could push for this spot in a year but I imagine he'll be capped in the medium term.

2. Brian Blaney. Again, rakes of average lads picked up caps. Blaney was there on some big days, especially Toulouse in 2006 and nailed his throws two of which were instrumental in set play tries from ball off the top.

3. Peter Coyle. Default selection although I'm probably missing out on someone. Tough when you consider lads like Hagan was capped and Emmet Byrne capped multiple times (and deservedly in the days of 22 man squads) and we relied heavily on imports. If he wasn't injured all the time and then retired, someone like Knoop would have been in the mix but given he barely featured, he's a non runner.

4. Damien Browne. Very solid player whose career probably deserved more profile than he received. Got a handful of medals from his two years. Unlucky not to play in the European knock outs in 2012 after Thorn came in on a short term deal.

5. Ross Molony. A no brainer, for me. Smart player, unlucky not to be brought on the 2017 tour to Japan although he has struggled for fitness slightly since then.

6. Ciarán Potts. Didn't play a huge number of games due to injury cutting his career short but he could have had an excellent career for Leinster if he didn't play his last game the week after his 23rd birthday.

7. Stephen Keogh. Massively unlucky never to get capped given some of the players who did pick up a few.

8. Des Dillon. Not an easy call but Dillon was an exceptionally talented guy who really should have had a far more significant career than he did. Guys like Dominic Ryan, Niall Ronan, Aidan McCullen and Max Deegan are all capped in the back row. It's almost harder finding a Leinster back row who wasn't capped in the past 20 years. I'm not picking Toland. End of.

9. Brian O'Riordan. He was a really tidy scrum half who never managed to make that next step up. Regularly looked good at Celtic League level.

10. Ian McKinley. I'm bending the rules due to a real lack of options. The guy should have ended up with 50 Irish caps. He was a genuinely special talent when making his first start for Leinster at 19. The back catalogue isn't great with Andy Dunne probably the pick of the bunch given we relied on NIQ players heavily in Contepomi, Warner, Spooner and even Eddie Hekenui before Sexton. We once went into a match against Toulouse with BOD starting at 10, for context.

11.Barry Daly. Straightforward choice. If he had managed to keep fit in the last 3 years, I think he'd have a couple of caps already. Very rounded player and will hopefully still get the reward his talent deserves.

12. Conor O'Brien. I could be accused of recency bias on this one but he had as good a season last year as any peripheral centre we've had in the past couple of decades. David Quinlan would be top of my list but for a couple of token caps in Japan in 2005. Same for Noel Reid and Argentina or ROL in 2017.

13. Eoin O'Malley. Another no brainer and would have probably collected a handful of caps if he had stayed fit. I do think people oversold him as the next BOD. He would have been something of a placeholder, in my opinion but still a very good player whose career ended far too early.

14. Gary Brown. Another who probably should have had a better career than he did. Great try scorer, was a budget Denis Hickie. Always loved this try with the little fake as he approached the defender was lovely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7krBBpp99U

15. Fionn Carr. Bit of manipulation to squeeze Carr in. Was never a massive fan of his but he could finish, no doubt. Brendan Burke probably deserves a mention.

All in all, a pretty ropey side. Doesn't really hit home how many players are capped until you look at something like this. So many players with a couple of token caps.

Clegg

Great post, Buer.

'Downtown' Gary Brown. What a player.

Neil3030

Is it fair to include lads like O'Malley who likely would have been capped but for injury?

Podge_irl

The Downtown Gary Brown try also reminds me that I expected bigger things of Willis but his career really never materialised. Cooney looked like following a similar pattern for a while.

Richie_Rich89

Potentially Baird in the second row, and Connors ahead of Keogh. Keogh was good but was he really an openside?

Murphy can't be too far away at blindside, albeit I don't remember too much of Potts, so I'm not really in a position to judge.

Maybe Keenan at fullback? Actually there'd be quite a good uncapped team at the moment:

1. Peter Dooley
2. Dan Sheehan
3. Vakhtang Abdaladze
4. Ryan Baird
5. Ross Molony
6. Josh Murphy
7. Will Connors
8. Brian Deeney/Ronan Foley/Ronan Watters
9. Rowan Osborne
10. Ciarán Frawley
11. Cian Kelleher
12. Conor O'Brien
13. Jimmy O'Brien
14. Barry Daly
15. Hugo Keenan

16. John McKee
17. Edward Byrne
18. Jack Aungier
19. Jack Dunne/Oisín Dowling
20. Scott Penny
21. Hugh O'Sullivan
22. Harry Byrne
23. Tommy O'Brien

JGP as well obviously, if you're including former NIQs who've qualified.

Bit of a lag at hooker and 8, with Kelleher, Doris and Deegan recently capped and Bryan Byrne away on loan.

Buer

Keogh wasn't really an openside. He started his career there but moved more to 6/8. I'm happy to accommodate him in the team though given his contribution and the level of uncapped options in the backrow is pretty meagre. Connors looks very good but hard to make a judgement fully on a guy who only has 12 starts.

Potts could have been a solid test level player. At 22, he was getting the nod to start in the HEC quarter final with Victor Costello and Jennings on the bench (a selection which apparently prompted Jennings' departure to Leicester). He wasn't going to be top tier but he was very talented and mobile for a 6'6" flanker. More than likely, he'd have moved into the second row as he developed more power and bulk instead of Leinster bouncing around Bryce Williams and Adam Byrnes for a couple of seasons.

There could have been a real butterfly effect if he had stayed available though. He stays and starts playing at lock and we may not have looked so intently at bringing Cullen back 2 years later. If Cullen doesn't come back, who knows how Leinster fare from 2009-2013?

irishbucsfan

I think Keogh came on at openside the night Seanie broke his leg. That's good enough for me.

Clegg

RTE are running a poll for the greatest Leinster side of the pro era. They're doing the same for the other provinces. They give you a list of players to choose from for back 3, centres and half backs. My biggest issue is you can't mix and match. Nacewa played just as much on the wing as he did full back, but in the poll it's a straight shootout between himself and Kearney for one position.

Anyway RTE's back line is:

15. Nacewa
14. Horgan
13. BOD
12. Darcy
11. Lowe
10. Sexton
9. Reddan

Fitzgerald could fit in somewhere

Squidgy Black

I think it's probably a bit premature to have Lowe in an all-time greats squad. Luke would definitely be ahead of him, I'd probably put Isa at 11 and Rob at 15.

Although I'm enjoying the thought of Luke absolutely foaming at the mouth at a project player getting in ahead of him, especially one that's only been with the club for less than 3 years.

Dog Botherer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Although I'm enjoying the thought of Luke absolutely foaming at the mouth at a project player getting in ahead of him, especially one that's only been with the club for less than 3 years.

worth it just for that really

Shefwedfan

Not sure about Lowe v a fit and firing Luke

Clegg

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I think it's probably a bit premature to have Lowe in an all-time greats squad. Luke would definitely be ahead of him, I'd probably put Isa at 11 and Rob at 15.

Although I'm enjoying the thought of Luke absolutely foaming at the mouth at a project player getting in ahead of him, especially one that's only been with the club for less than 3 years.

I'd have Lowe in the XV. He has ball playing ability no other Irish back three has. Just a different kind of player to the ones we normally produce. And he had an incredible strike rate in his first two seasons at Leinster. Allowed down in his third, but his overall play remained to a very high standard regardless.

I agree with you on the back three issue. Kearney at FB and Nacewa on the wing is the way to go. Tough on Horgan who's a legend though.

Former Former

Lowe hasn't earned inclusion at all yet.

15. Kearney
14. Horgan
13. Bod
12. D'Arcy
11. Nacewa
10. Sexton
9. Reddan
21. Whitaker
22. Contepomi
23. Fitzgerald

aloooof

There's a case for Hickie on the wing as well.

Former Former

And my stab at the forwards

1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Furlong
4. Cullen
5. Ryan
6. Fardy
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Ross
19. Hines
20. Elsom

Buer

A peak Hickie ahead of all of them, for me. Did it at both provincial and test level with consistency over a sustained period. In the past 20 years, I don't think there was a better Irish winger overall when all were at the peak of their powers, to be honest. Had some very bad injuries but still managed to retain his speed and ability throughout.

Podge_irl

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure about Lowe v a fit and firing Luke

I think a "best of X time" list has to include someone's tendency towards not actually being fit and firing all that often.

Dave_The_Sheep

Former Former wrote: »

Lowe hasn't earned inclusion at all yet.

15. Kearney
14. Horgan
13. Bod
12. D'Arcy
11. Nacewa
10. Sexton
9. Reddan
21. Whitaker
22. Contepomi
23. Fitzgerald

Only change for me would be ... I'd probably put Hickie in, move Fitz from 23. Question now is whether Horgan keeps his spot over Hickie. Hickie probably at his best the better player vs Horgan's best, but Horgan probably edges it as I think he played a good bit more.

irishbucsfan

This discussion is just getting me all excited for leinstertainment, gonna have to put you all on ignore until August