DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Mr. Guappa

Naked Lepper wrote: »

quick question and prob should be able to find this if I searched a bit but thought id check here anyway

i mentioned earlier finishing last year around 4.15 mark, and this year i would like to come in sub 4 - lets aim for 3.45/3.50 just for now

can anyone advise what pace my LSR should be (in kmph)? i am usually doing LSR at around 6kmph but this is probably a bit too fast?

i guess 6:30kmph would be around 45 seconds more than PMP for 3.50 which is 5.45kmph but i should probably reduce that a bit as i am looking at KM so maybe 6.15kmph for LSR?

if anyone can confirm that would be much appreciated, i have def been running too fast through training this year and last year too. hard to slow down.

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. You don't pick an arbitrary target time and train to that. Training should be based on current abilities and fitness levels.

The jump from a 4:18 marathon to a 4:00 or 3:45 is huge and is not something that is easily achieved. From Strava I see that you've run less than 200 miles so far this year - that's not the type of base that would indicate a jump to sub 4.

Do you have a more recent race time than the marathon? If not then we can use that as a guide to training paces, and it gives us a PMP of 6:07/km, and so an easy range of 6:40-7:00.

Finally, don't jump straight into the middle of a plan that will require a quick increase in mileage. Give yourself a few weeks to build the mileage, and set marathon expectations accordingly.

py

Frank Duffy 10 Mile is on in a few weeks, here's the route profile for it. Hopefully it's of use to those who haven't spent some time on any of the route beforehand.

Treviso

eabha19 wrote: »

I'm thinking the same about picking up my pace for the Kilcock 10 mile - my pb was in February and I ran it in 1hr 28, not sure I'll have that in me at the moment. It'll be interesting to test the legs though if nothing else!

You'd be surprised how this block of training will have improved your endurance. As the mentors say, you won't lose your speed. I would run this 10 miler at the same pace as your PB, see how you feel at 5-7 miles and push on if you're able to

eabha19

Treviso wrote: »

You'd be surprised how this block of training will have improved your endurance. As the mentors say, you won't lose your speed. I would run this 10 miler at the same pace as your PB, see how you feel at 5-7 miles and push on if you're able to

Thanks for that - wasn't sure what way to approach it as I haven't ran under 6min/km in ages but it'll be a good test of my legs. In fairness that pb felt a little once off to me - Trim 10 miles cold but dry and it just was one of those days where it all went well for me. I did the Clontarf 10 mile on a sunny Easter Monday in April (three days after a holiday in the States mind you) and I couldn't keep up the pace at all.

skyblue46

Treviso wrote: »

You'd be surprised how this block of training will have improved your endurance. As the mentors say, you won't lose your speed. I would run this 10 miler at the same pace as your PB, see how you feel at 5-7 miles and push on if you're able to

In general this advice is sound. For this specific race it's wrong due to the profile of the course. Mile 5 is a gradual drag and would be best still kept on pace. When you get to the 6 mile mark at the crest of the hill near Ashtown Gate let the pace pick up on the gradual downhill, down Chesterfield Ave (the main road in the PP), and across the 15 acres until about 8.5 miles. Keep a bit in reserve though because from 8.5 to 9.5 miles is a tough drag.

eabha19

skyblue46 wrote: »

In general this advice is sound. For this specific race it's wrong due to the profile of the course. Mile 5 is a gradual drag and would be best still kept on pace. When you get to the 6 mile mark at the crest of the hill near Ashtown Gate let the pace pick up on the gradual downhill, down Chesterfield Ave (the main road in the PP), and across the 15 acres until about 8.5 miles. Keep a bit in reserve though because from 8.5 to 9.5 miles is a tough drag.

Is that the Frank Duffy 10 mile you're talking about skyblue? I'm doing my 10 miles in Kilcock. Is the Frank Duffy in Phoenix Park - I had assumed it would be Swords again. Kilcock is the Sunday before the Frank Duffy. 10 miles, 10 weeks out from DCM starting at 10:10. Looking forward to it.

Unknownability

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Rest today, Long run Friday, recovery run Saturday, optional 3 easy miles on Sunday. It's not ideal given that you had the PMP session yesterday and the 10 miler at the weekend, but I'm guessing it can't be avoided.

Nice month, but please slow the easy paces down. Also, I don't know where you're getting a 7:30 PMP from, but it's too fast. You're getting in all the miles but that's only one part of the equation.

I've no real reason to do it tomorrow, it's just I like having it done and out of the way for the weekend.

I'm going to stick to the days this week as I haven't hydrated properly today for a long run tomorrow.

The PMP run during the week was a touch fast, target was between 740 / 50, but I was rushing to get back to work and then every so often someone would run past me and I could feel my pace lifting to catch them.

skyblue46

eabha19 wrote: »

Is that the Frank Duffy 10 mile you're talking about skyblue? I'm doing my 10 miles in Kilcock. Is the Frank Duffy in Phoenix Park - I had assumed it would be Swords again. Kilcock is the Sunday before the Frank Duffy. 10 miles, 10 weeks out from DCM starting at 10:10. Looking forward to it.

Oh yes, sorry. The FD is back in the park. Kilcock is a nice flat course. If there is a westerly breeze that day keep a little bit in the tank for the last 1.5 miles. It was very tough up the canal last year.

Laineyfrecks

skyblue46 wrote: »

In general this advice is sound. For this specific race it's wrong due to the profile of the course. Mile 5 is a gradual drag and would be best still kept on pace. When you get to the 6 mile mark at the crest of the hill near Ashtown Gate let the pace pick up on the gradual downhill, down Chesterfield Ave (the main road in the PP), and across the 15 acres until about 8.5 miles. Keep a bit in reserve though because from 8.5 to 9.5 miles is a tough drag.

I've never raced a 10 mile before!! Is this one really tough? Any tips or advice gladly appreciated:o

KGC

frash wrote: »

Is anyone else hoping for a 4:30 marathon meaning a PMP of 10:18 min / miles?
Had a look on Strava for the first time in a while & you're all running way faster than I am with my lunch run there of 5 miles at 11:21 min / mile

Am doing the Dun Laoghaire 10km on Monday & can't see how I'm going to do it in the 8 odd mins / miles I'd usually do

I'm hoping for 4:30 to 4:40 and my runs are in or around similar paces to yours. Maybe a small bit quicker but nothing much. In fact looking at your training log distances are very similar too.........if your going wrong that makes two of us!!!!

Rega

Not going to lie. I like the rest days.

Huzzah!

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

I've never raced a 10 mile before!! Is this one really tough? Any tips or advice gladly appreciated:o

I think there’s a really good description of the Frank Duffy route in one of the logs. I’ll dig it out when I’m next at a computer and post it here. The last drag is a common finish to races in the park and it’s not the nicest but keep something in the tank for it and you’ll be grand.

Laineyfrecks

Huzzah! wrote: »

I think there’s a really good description of the Frank Duffy route in one of the logs. I’ll dig it out when I’m next at a computer and post it here. The last drag is a common finish to races in the park and it’s not the nicest but keep something in the tank for it and you’ll be grand.

Thanks a mill! I'm just a bit worried about trying to judge a 10mile race but i'm sure i'll figure it out!

Please excuse my ignorance but when you mention a drag in a race what exactly is that?

Mr. Guappa

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Thanks a mill! I'm just a bit worried about trying to judge a 10mile race but i'm sure i'll figure it out!

Please excuse my ignorance but when you mention a drag in a race what exactly is that?

Closer to the time we'll give more advice on how to judge the 10 miler and half marathon. But basically, pick a goal time based on your other races, then judge race pace accordingly. It's all great practice for the marathon itself.

A drag is a bit of an incline or prolonged uphill section. Down my way it would be known as "a pull"

Laineyfrecks

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Closer to the time we'll give more advice on how to judge the 10 miler and half marathon. But basically, pick a goal time based on your other races, then judge race pace accordingly. It's all great practice for the marathon itself.

A drag is a bit of an incline or prolonged uphill section. Down my way it would be known as "a pull"

Thats great thanks a mill

Unknownability

Long run done and dusted, very enjoyable conditions and feel great after it. Miles were a bit quick at the beginning as I was running with someone but gradually slowed them down.

Best of luck everyone I'm sure that for a lot of people like myself it's the longest they'll have done to date.

Mr. Guappa

Unknownability wrote: »

Long run done and dusted, very enjoyable conditions and feel great after it. Miles were a bit quick at the beginning as I was running with someone but gradually slowed them down.

Best of luck everyone I'm sure that for a lot of people like myself it's the longest they'll have done to date.

Nice job! Well done on getting out so early.

It's a great buzz after running further than you've ever gone before.

eabha19

Love getting it done. 16 miles was my longest too but I had company for about 9 miles today which was great. My sister stretched herself by doing 8 miles after a summer of very little running and the pace suited her perfectly. A few drops of rain along the way were quite welcome. I love the feeling when it's done - 3 hours on your feet is a long time! Worried that I was running too slow today but in the end it averaged at 7 min/km spot on. I took two high five gels and the tummy was fine whilst running. I didn't notice any great burst of energy from them but neither did I collapse from exhaustion mid way either! I didn't have breakfast - just a cup of tea as usual. I will eat for the races as they all start later in the day than 7 a.m. but I literally get up at 6:45, grab a cuppa tea and fall out the door - giving time to digest breakfast in the morning is just one step too far for me!

bucky08

Long run complete.. 13 miles felt good could of went a little slower but glad to have it completed.. Took a kinetica gel for the first time ever taking a gel at 10 miles, definitely got some benefit from it felt strong for the last 2 miles. Good week got all my runs in.. Now to relax for the rest of the weekend..

Mr. Guappa

I've gathered together some of the more informative and interesting posts from the thread so far, and put links to them in the table below. We will try and update this and re-post intermittently.

Plans
HHN1
Boards
|
Strava Group
|
What to eat after a run?
shotgunmcos
Runners Connect
|
Easy Running you say?
aerobic benefits
An example
esteemed
Train to current fitness
Comic Book Guy - Part 1
Comic Book Guy - Part 2
|
Hydration
Planned Marathon Pace
Racing Line

bucky08

Hi Mr Guappa I tried opening the links but they are blank for me only the links to Strava and boards plans open for me..

Mr. Guappa

bucky08 wrote: »

Hi Mr Guappa I tried opening the links but they are blank for me only the links to Strava and boards plans open for me..

Weird - they work for me. I've tried on desktop and on touch site and both work. Interesting to see if others have the same issue as yourself.

eabha19

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Weird - they work for me. I've tried on desktop and on touch site and both work. Interesting to see if others have the same issue as yourself.

Worked for me on my laptop. Have to say there's lots I can't access on the site from my mobile. I can only read threads if I'm not logged in which means I can only post from a pc rather than phone. Anyone else have that issue (android).

bucky08

I am using my phone will try on laptop when I get a chance and see sound....

Irishder

Long run done this morning hot and hilly. Found a new app relive it's great for mapping your runs.

https://www.relive.cc/view/gh38443589467

Mr. Guappa

WEEK 7

I hope everyone is enjoying the bank holiday weekend. By this time of the next bank holiday Sunday you will all have a marathon medal around your neck and be chatting to your fellow novices and boardsies in McGrattan's!

I've seen a notable move towards a truly easy pace for a few more of you this week - great to see. We'll be banging that drum for another few weeks yet (SORRY!)

not sorry

Let us know how you got on in Week 6:
- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
- Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?
- Are you satisfied with how your training is progressing?

Week 7 looks like this:
Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday|Thursday|Friday|Saturday|Sunday
HHN1|rest|3m easy|6m easy|3m easy|rest|12m lsr|cross
Boards|rest,cross or 3m rec|4m easy|1m w/u + 5m pace + 1m c/d|4m easy|rest,cross or 3m rec|14m lsr|3m rec


So a (welcome?) bit of a step-back week on the boards plan this week, while the HH crew will see an increase in overall weekly mileage and LSR distance over the next couple of weeks.

Best of luck in the coming week everyone!

Rega

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

Yes. 5 runs.

- Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?

Just about. The end to my run on Thursday was way too fast as I was bursting for the toilet! Everything else was slow and easy.

- Are you satisfied with how your training is progressing?

Yep. I've been more clued in with my hydrating during the day before running. Also tried a gel for the first time on my long run yesterday. I didn't notice any ill effects so I'm happy with that. I'm going to make more of an effort to get the foam roller out. My hamstring felt a little tight again on Friday but it was grand for my lsr on Saturday and the recovery run today.

kemcloughlin

Another week down! Where is the time going?

Did I do all the runs and were they at the right pace?

Got the runs in. Had a lovely back and head massage on Monday and eating very well this week. Was faster than usual due to the 5k but as you can see really did do a SLOW LSR!

3 miles 11.09/mile
5 miles 11.22/mile
5K road race 9.50/mile
7 miles 12.44/mile
Cross training - 1km swim

Tried out electrolyte tablets and Stingers this week - the guy in the running shop reckons that is all I need - tested them and both worked fine - no adverse side effects.

Happy with training?
I think so...No more races entered until Tullamore Half and decided not to go ahead with Galway.

Question - are there such things as waterproof runners? I have now been caught in 3 deluges of rain and my runners soak right through and become so heavy - if that happens at DCM I don’t know how I will get to the end...

eabha19

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

WEEK 7



Let us know how you got on in Week 6:
- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
- Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?
- Are you satisfied with how your training is progressing?

All runs done - hoping I'm now going slow enough, it certainly feels a lot more comfortable.

I was delighted to get to the 16 miles yesterday. I went to physio this week - I saw him 2 years ago when an old achilles injured flared up during training for my second half marathon. With the increase in mileage over last few months it had started up again although the pain was more located in the heel than the ankle this time. Slowing down had definitely helped a bit and I was trying to keep up the exercises he had shown but pain was still there. Went to him to make sure I was doing the right things and that he was happy with me doing the marathon. Came out delighted as he said it's completely manageable and gave me a few new exercises - the issue is plantar fasciitis (related to my weak achilles) but it's fairly mild and although it was sore at the end of the long run yesterday, there's definitely been some improvements already with the new exercises. Anyway, with that worry gone I'm feeing very positive about the marathon training. The last 2/3 weeks I've ended up doing six runs when at the start of this I had thought there was no way I'd be able to increase it to five - the slower pace has made the short runs so much more enjoyable and the dog looks like she's losing some weight, even if I'm not yet!!

Fraggle07

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
Yes

Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?
Yes, happy with paces this week.

Are you satisfied with how your training is progressing?
Gels and electrolyte tablets all working fine. Pretty much have defined clothes I find most comfortable on long runs.

Was also at the physio during the week as I have some foot pain. It's not so bad when running, more when I walk. I have some tibialis posterior strengthening exercises and a few to strengthen my calves. One leg in particular is weaker than the other.