DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Unknownability

Race Report : Mullingar 10 Mile 27/07/2019


The day started off very well up early and had a breakfast of porridge and brown bread.

I then did some light stretching mainly on my right hamstring, which I aggravated a number of weeks ago.

I set off for the race which was only 30 mins away got a good parking spot. Signed up and then did a very quick warm up mainly static stretching.

It was at this point that I realised they’d no pacers so tried to find somebody that I could latch onto.



Mile 1

6:48

It was a fairly tight start on the country lane, so I positioned myself on the outside of the group about a quarter of the way down and it all ran very smoothly and on time. The first mile had a sharp bend about a quarter of a mile in so I wanted to get through this without being part of the bottle neck , it was rather uneventful and mostly downhill.



Mile 2 6:54 & Mile 3 6:57



These were rather uneventful, wasn’t part of a group just kind of a small few people together. Mile 2 I briefly chatted to a lady who seemed really nice and we were both aiming for the same ball park time, she mentioned that she was just coming back after a lay off so wasn’t confident of the time. We separated shortly after this, hindsight will show I should’ve stayed with her. Mile 3 included a long straight and you could really feel the heat in this section bouncing off the road and it was at this stage I noticed a runner, who kept running directly behind me and their breathing was quite laboured and began to break my concentration.



Mile 4 7:12 & Mile 5 6:58



The slight slowdown in Mile 4 I am attributing to the water station, I still haven’t got comfortable taking a drink and trying to drink it without slowing down. This is where I got really separated from the group and completed the rest of it running on my own for the most part, except for annoying breathing person that is. I took a HiFive caffeine gel just at mile 5, not because I felt like I needed it rather to make sure it’d no adverse effects as times for trying things are limited.



Mile 6 7:14 & Mile 7 7:13



The runner was really starting to distract me now, so I just crossed over to the other side of the road and kept going started to feel a bit drained during these miles. Then at exactly 6.66 miles, I really started to get the dull ache in my right hamstring. I was on course for my target time at this stage but began to think that if I was going to make it, it was going to be a struggle.



Mile 8 7:40 Mile 9 8:13



These were tough running completely on my own, runners began to pass me for the first time and the lady who I mentioned earlier passed me approaching mile 10. These both included long straights, mentally I was running these while plotting my course around my local 5K route to try and help me with motivation. Seeing mile 8s time signalled that the target wasn’t going to be met but that my secondary goal would be try get all 10 on PMP. I also think that this is where there was a slight glitch and the watch had mile 8 short and mile 9 long.



Mile 10 8:04



This mile involved running past the start the line, so I had a good idea of how much further to the finish line. As I approached the last .5 mile, I saw a lady being assisted in front of me fall to the ground do I caught up with them and then ran to the next marshal to get more assistance. I kept that speed up to the finish line.



Chip Time 01:13:14



So slightly outside target of 68-72 mins, but it’s not all doom and gloom. If I had of got in 15 seconds faster would it have made happier? No, I still wouldn’t have been happy with the collapse in the last 3 miles. I recovered very quickly after the race which I was happy with and besides the dull ache in the hamstring I was unscathed.



The race its self was extremely well run and the spread of food afterwards was amazing.

skyblue46

Unknownability wrote: »

So slightly outside target of 68-72 mins, but it’s not all doom and gloom. If I had of got in 15 seconds faster would it have made happier? No, I still wouldn’t have been happy with the collapse in the last 3 miles. I recovered very quickly after the race which I was happy with and besides the dull ache in the hamstring I was unscathed.

Well done for toughing it out. The bit about your target time caught my eye. It's a very broad target for a 10 mile race with about 25 seconds per mile difference. I'd suggest that the next time you might set off at the slower target pace until half way and then move towards the faster pace. It's a lot less painful! Haha.

ReeReeG

bucky08 wrote: »

Did you get all your runs in??
Yes I got all my runs in this week after the previous week being sick with tonsillitis, I feel I'm back on track now so try and push on again this week..
Have been following the HH novice plan but have been looking at maybe moving over to the boards plan as this plan will be better for me in the long run I feel..
Did I run all my runs at an appropriate pace??
For the majority I did stick to pacing quite well. Sometimes I feel good and push on a little too far but remember the bigger plan.
Any opinion on changing plan ??

Hey bucky08, well done on getting back to it after being sick. To be honest, I don't think you should switch plans. It would be quite a jump in mileage for you, never mind if you hadn't been sick recently. The plan you've been following will build at an appropriate speed.

Why do you think the boards plan might be a better fit for you? Curious to know the thoughts behind this.

ReeReeG

kemcloughlin wrote: »

89 days...

Going ok - but I am a bit worried that my elevations are making my life harder - are they excessive? What’s the elevation gain for the DCM?

Any things I need to work on?
This week I am breaking all rules and will race the 5k Birr Road Run - it’s the last in the series and I have done them all. So I am trying to figure out how best to structure my week - I am thinking 3 miles tonight, 5 tomorrow and then rest Weds and Thurs, 3 miles Friday racing and then Cross Train Sat and LSR 7 miles Sunday.

I am also having a major phobia of gels - so much different info out there. I didn’t use anything for the 10 mile this week. I did carry water with me which I don’t usually do. What are the alternatives to gels - more natural if possible and do they do the same thing?

I don't think the elevations on your runs will do you any harm, provided you keep them easy on the easy runs! Even if it feels super slow


Your weeks structure sounds ok, although I'd give the cross training a miss on Saturday if you're feeling tired after the 5k race. You want to be feeling ok for the long run on Sunday.

ReeReeG

Huzzah! wrote: »

I should probably be more active on my own I will follow with interest.

Was thinking the same :P

ReeReeG

Rojo wrote: »

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

I got all the runs in. My Wednesday run was quite late in the evening. Those mid-week runs are definitely better for me in morning, lunch time or running home from work.

Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?

I've really settled into the running slow and easy. However, my Tuesday run was faster than it should have been. It was really windy out on South Wall Pier and I literally got blown back on the return leg of the run!!

As others have already stated, I'm interested seeing how I'm going to get on in the FD 10 Mile race... Hope the legs remember how to move a little bit quicker. :-)

Which aspects of your training/preparation need improving?

I see a lot of people seem to be eating bagels, is there any particular reason behind this? I usually have a couple of slices of toast before a run. Before the LSR on Saturday I had two slices of toast with slices of banana, peanut butter and tahini chocolate spread on it.

I have a running vest and thought it might be a bit overkill for the LSR but think it might be the easiest way to stay hydrated so will bring this out from now on. Also, need to buy some electrolyte tabs so if anyone has any recommendations..?

Stretching and foam rolling.... I always seem to avoid doing these. I’m going to try and incorporate them into my training this week.

All in all, I'm quite happy with another week of the training ticked off and as always, I love seeing everyone else out and about training. I really feel like a member of the club/team.

Nice work on getting the week done.

Everyone will have their own preference of breakfast or find what works for them. If your combo of toast etc is working for you, then don't be worrying about what everyone else is having
I use the Zero tablets, can get them in a good few running or cycling shops.

ReeReeG

Naoise14 wrote: »

Hi! I am super late to this thread but I would love to join if ye will have me�� First marathoner here too! I have been plugging away myself at the training but this thread offers great advice so hoping I can join in!

have you raced before?
Yes, a couple of halfs, 10 milers and 10ks.

If so what are your PBs? (Best half was 1hr45 something October 18, but my fitness has declined a bit with work hours increasing and family life being mental.
10mile- I’m around the 1hr20 mark these days... did Mullingar 10 mile last sat but I fell and couldn’t get my act together after that! So finished in 1hr 24. Date and distance please!)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? Not unless I fall ��*♀️

How much training do you currently do ?Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. I currently run 4 days, have 5in my plan but never seem to get out the last day. And swim and cross train on one of the easy run days too.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? I would like to complete it in under 4 hours.

How many days a week can you train? 4-5
And what plan do you intend to follow?HH intermediate
What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? My guts not holding out for the distance��
Why are you running this marathon? Because I need another commitment in my life������ but really because I want to tick it off my bucket list��

I am currently really struggling with running my lsr and easy runs slowly- I know that’s a rookie mistake, but I honestly don’t get how you are expected to up the pace by 30secs a km over 26 miles in the marathon when you haven’t trained at that pace? Surely adrenaline only carries you so far? I have also found since training started that I am slower than I used to be... It’s like I have lost fitness since I have slowed down so much, and it’s still not as slow as I should be running...Any advice welcome!

Not too late to join us at all


Well done on finishing the 10 mile last week after falling - hope all is ok since??


I think most people feel like they get slower with marathon training, especially when you do keep your long runs properly easy, but remember its not like you are training for a fast race. With your first marathon, one of the main goals is to finish the distance (usually).

You won't be counting on adrenaline to get you along that bit faster, you'll be using your strong aerobic base which you'll have built up in the next 3 months when running at appropriately slower paces.
Does the HH intermediate plan have marathon pace miles in any of the runs?? I don't know the plan off the top of my head, sorry.

greentea is just wrong

The weeks are flying by :O

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
3 mile Tues- Yes
5 mile Wed - Yes
3 mile Thurs - Yes

10 miles Sat- No - My legs were feeling exceptionally tight on Thursday to the point of swollen, so I had a massage on Fri eve to try & loosen them up. On Sat with time constraints & them still feeling tight, I decided to swap the LSR from next week & this week around, so did 7 miles instead. Will try 10 miles this weekend.

Legs feel much better today, and think it was the right decision, in order to try & avoid injury. Also, first time I ran without music, and actually enjoyed it.

- Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?
Yes for the most part... trying to gauge of my phone, but considering investing in a garmin, so I'm not having to carry it with me

- Which aspects of your training/preparation need improving?
Diet, and stretching. Having a hard time figuring out what to eat the day before, and morning off a run.
Also, in terms of stretching, I'm doing some every evening, but not sure if I'm not targeting the right places, or not doing enough. My legs are starting to feel very tight after multiple days on the trot.

Mr. Guappa

Unknownability wrote: »

Chip Time 01:13:14



So slightly outside target of 68-72 mins, but it’s not all doom and gloom. If I had of got in 15 seconds faster would it have made happier? No, I still wouldn’t have been happy with the collapse in the last 3 miles. I recovered very quickly after the race which I was happy with and besides the dull ache in the hamstring I was unscathed.



The race its self was extremely well run and the spread of food afterwards was amazing.

Well done on toughing it out - it sounds like you've the right attitude towards learning lessons from it and taking the positives.

As skyblue mentioned, setting appropriate target times and managing your pace in a race are important (and difficult) skills to master. You're still very new to running so experiences like Saturday are invaluable (while being tough at the time!).

I've been meaning to ask about the (football?) matches you are playing... is there much left in the season? It just strikes me that two matches a week (featuring lots of short, sharp sprints), in addition to the boards plan is a lot of intensity. I'm sure there are cross-training benefits, but if it's going to be two matches every week then it might be wise to adjust the plan. I'm interested to hear other opinions on this as well.

Also, keep those paces a touch slower!

bucky08

ReeReeG wrote:

Hey bucky08, well done on getting back to it after being sick. To be honest, I don't think you should switch plans. It would be quite a jump in mileage for you, never mind if you hadn't been sick recently. The plan you've been following will build at an appropriate speed.

I just feel that the distance on the long runs doesn't give me confidence really in that I would only run 20 miles once in the whole 18 weeks that's the main reason behind looking to change..

Bananaleaf

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

Yes, I got all my runs in

- Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?

Yes. My LSR was ran at an average of 12:50mins/mile. It's supposed to be 12:30 so will work on speeding it up a little. Not this week though as I suspect my LSR might be quite hilly!

- Which aspects of your training/preparation need improving?

I would love a more consistent sleeping pattern. For the moment I'm getting away with it as I am off work, so am getting to stay up late but am still enjoying 8-9hrs sleep most nights.

The other issue I have been experiencing is extreme nervousness in the days and nights before races. I don't really know what I can do about this. Just embrace it? My experience of the evening before my own club 5k and the more recent South Dublin 10k have left me very concerned about what I will be like on the eve of DCM. I do have a feeling there will be less to be worried about for DCM because, rather than aiming for a time I will be primarily aiming to finish and for me the anxiety seems to be related to having to push myself for speed.

Physically I am feeling great. Physically, I can do this marathon. But mentally I can be bit of a handful for myself (telling myself at mile 1 of a 6mile that I just can't keep going) and I would love to get the mind a bit stronger.


Week 6 :eek:

Unknownability

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Well done on toughing it out - it sounds like you've the right attitude towards learning lessons from it and taking the positives.

As skyblue mentioned, setting appropriate target times and managing your pace in a race are important (and difficult) skills to master. You're still very new to running so experiences like Saturday are invaluable (while being tough at the time!).

I've been meaning to ask about the (football?) matches you are playing... is there much left in the season? It just strikes me that two matches a week (featuring lots of short, sharp sprints), in addition to the boards plan is a lot of intensity. I'm sure there are cross-training benefits, but if it's going to be two matches every week then it might be wise to adjust the plan. I'm interested to hear other opinions on this as well.

Also, keep those paces a touch slower!

Im actually refereeing those matches rather than playing, they are infrequent enough and where possible I substitute a match for a run. (might not be a popular thing to say after the weekend, interestingly Sean Cleere is a sub 3hr marathon runner).

I would guess that I've at most 10 matches or so before the marathon, I'll revisit the closer we get to the marathon.

Every time I turn on sky news and see the brexit countdown clock I go Feck the marathon is before that.

Thanks for all comments.

passinginterest

Did you get the runs in? Appropriate pace?

Five runs done. Debated doing the optional recovery 3 miles on both Monday and Friday but decided against it. Bit quick on the Thursday run and long run was a bit of a disaster. Completed the planned mileage with and extended Sunday run.

Aspects to improve?
Diet for a start. Started a weekly weigh in 3 weeks ago. Put on 2 pounds the first week! Down about half a pound this week. I’m using running most days as an excuse to eat ridiculous amounts of crap.

Planning is the other thing to improve, for the long runs I need to start treating them like a race and getting up and out at a decent time. May cause a bit of tension at home, although to be fair she was telling me I need to get out earlier after the disaster that was Saturday. I guess spoiling the Saturday lie on is better than having to listen to me moaning about how terrible my long run was!

kemcloughlin

Unknownability wrote: »

Im actually refereeing those matches rather than playing, they are infrequent enough and where possible I substitute a match for a run. (might not be a popular thing to say after the weekend, interestingly Sean Cleere is a sub 3hr marathon runner).

I would guess that I've at most 10 matches or so before the marathon, I'll revisit the closer we get to the marathon.

Every time I turn on sky news and see the brexit countdown clock I go Feck the marathon is before that.

Thanks for all comments.

An Offaly GAA ref? My husband is refereeing too and is training for the DCM.

Unknownability

kemcloughlin wrote: »

An Offaly GAA ref? My husband is referring too and is training for the DCM.

Nope, westmeath.

ReeReeG

bucky08 wrote:

I just feel that the distance on the long runs doesn't give me confidence really in that I would only run 20 miles once in the whole 18 weeks that's the main reason behind looking to change..

Quite a few people over the years of this thread who followed the HH plan, and did just the one 20 mile run, went on and ran DCM okay. I only did one 20 mile run before my first marathon too. Adding another one (without the prior base) risks having you too tired for the big day itself... the boards plan has two alright but ideally people following that plan would have had a higher base leading into training.

If you're not convinced, I can source some race reports from last years thread of people who followed the HH plan for you to read? And you could go back and look at their posts leading up to it maybe..

While we're here actually, I think you could benefit from slowing your easy pace a tad more (going on your recent HM time).

Mr. Guappa

Lots of people mentioning the need to improve diet. Since I started running I've found I eat like a horse, and of course it's often easier to to reach for the unhealthy option. There's no need to go making mad changes, just simple stuff. More fruit, veg, whole foods, proper breakfast, less processed crap etc.

Having a plan in place for what you're going to eat after a run can help avoid the temptation to reach for crap.
Something that's quick and easy to prepare.

A handy breakfast one I came across recently courtesy of ReeReeG and shotgunmcos is overnight oats. I've made my own tweaks and it's something like this:

Jumbo oats
Big spoon of natural yoghurt
Small spoon of jam
Frozen blueberries
Frozen raspberries
Milk

I bang that in the fridge at night then have it for breakfast the following morning (with granola on top). If there is some left over it's nearly tastier as a snack later in the day. Give it a shot - it might surprise you!

Feel free to share any other recipes too!

skyblue46

ReeReeG wrote: »

Quite a few people over the years of this thread who followed the HH plan, and did just the one 20 mile run, went on and ran DCM okay. I only did one 20 mile run before my first marathon too. Adding another one (without the prior base) risks having you too tired for the big day itself... the boards plan has two alright but ideally people following that plan would have had a higher base leading into training.

If you're not convinced, I can source some race reports from last years thread of people who followed the HH plan for you to read? And you could go back and look at their posts leading up to it maybe..

While we're here actually, I think you could benefit from slowing your easy pace a tad more (going on your recent HM time).

Ad nauseam.....:pac::pac::pac::pac:

ReeReeG

skyblue46 wrote:

Ad nauseam.....

Having flashbacks?

skyblue46

ReeReeG wrote: »

Having flashbacks?

Yeah...thinking of K's wonderful caricature on the wall. The most common question I'm asked about it is about the "Novices Please Slow Down....repeated ad nauseam" placard I'm holding.

kulekat

ReeReeG wrote: »

bucky08 wrote:

I just feel that the distance on the long runs doesn't give me confidence really in that I would only run 20 miles once in the whole 18 weeks that's the main reason behind looking to change..

Quite a few people over the years of this thread who followed the HH plan, and did just the one 20 mile run, went on and ran DCM okay. I only did one 20 mile run before my first marathon too. Adding another one (without the prior base) risks having you too tired for the big day itself... the boards plan has two alright but ideally people following that plan would have had a higher base leading into training.

If you're not convinced, I can source some race reports from last years thread of people who followed the HH plan for you to read? And you could go back and look at their posts leading up to it maybe..

While we're here actually, I think you could benefit from slowing your easy pace a tad more (going on your recent HM time).

With this in mind, then would it be safe to assume that a slightly 'stronger' or 'more experienced' runner should do the boards plan compared to the HH plan?

Comparing total mileage of both plans, boards has over 100 more miles in total over the full training period.

Im not trying to change plans, just thinking out loud to get your opinions

Bananaleaf

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Feel free to share any other recipes too!

I have attached a file which contains a list of meals I make often as they are so quick to make. In most cases (not the bean burgers) they involve very little prep and most ingredients can be fecked into the pot at once.

They are all main meals and are vegetarian (I'm not veggie but try to eat more veg than meat)

When I have time I will add more because there are a few others I have that aren't here.

I don't know the calorie content of any of these dishes I'm afraid and I don't have specific quantities listed in some because I sort of add the veg as I want/have them. At a guess I'm getting my protein from the beans/tofu, the carbs from veg and pasta and the fats from the nuts, nut butters, coconut milk and oil so they should be fairly balanced

DBB

Hi all!
Week 6! :eek::eek::eek:
ALREADY??? I'm a bit terrified

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
Yes, all 4 runs in.
Tuesday: 3.1 miles, 11:32mins/mile, avg HR 137bpm
Wednesday: 4.3 miles, 11:49mins/mile, avg HR 141bpm...
Oops, got home to realise this was meant to be 5 miles. Got in an extra mile the next day..
Thursday: 4.4 miles, 10:12mins/mile, avg HR 156bpm
Ah yes... this was the day I cheerfully agreed to going for a run with my multiple-Ironman cousins... Seemed like a great idea at the time
"Yes, we'll go at your pace" they said.
"Don't worry" they said.
Lying feckers :mad::D Even though I pushed myself more than I usually would, they still disappeared off into the distance. I had the last laugh though, because they got lost :pac::pac::pac:

Saturday: 11.2 miles, 11:58mins/mile, avg HR 141bpm


- Did you run all the runs at an appropriate pace?
Mostly. See above

- Which aspects of your training/preparation need improving?
I could do with getting into a better pattern with sleep.
I have also had some wobbles over doing the HHN1 plan rather than the Boards plan, because of the differences in overall mileage, and the other add-ons to improve form and speed in the Boards plan that aren't in the HHN1 plan. But, I have been doing some stuff like strides and form drills most weeks anyway, so maybe I have been doing a HHN1 plan with a nod towards the boards plan?

Laineyfrecks

Sorry i have looked through lots of posts at the start of this but can't find the one i'm looking for! Just to clarify my easy run & LSR should be done between 9.40 & 10 min miles then my recovery over the 10 mins? I'm just conscious i have speed up a bit recently:)

Cheers!

skyblue46

kulekat wrote: »

With this in mind, then would it be safe to assume that a slightly 'stronger' or 'more experienced' runner should do the boards plan compared to the HH plan?

Comparing total mileage of both plans, boards has over 100 more miles in total over the full training period.

Im not trying to change plans, just thinking out loud to get your opinions

Definitely the Boards plan is for the runner with a better base. The HH1 plan is the marathon equivalent to Couch to 5k. It is simply designed to build endurance enough to get a person around the course. It is ideal for runners with very little recent past running experience. The Boards plan is a step up from this and requires more of a base.

Remember that training should be done to present fitness and endurance levels. Training to a more advanced plan before you are ready for it will not make you stronger or faster. It will fatigue and/or injure you.

skyblue46

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Sorry i have looked through lots of posts at the start of this but can't find the one i'm looking for! Just to clarify my easy run & LSR should be done between 9.40 & 10 min miles then my recovery over the 10 mins? I'm just conscious i have speed up a bit recently:)

Cheers!

Without consulting any pace calculators but knowing your race times I would agree with the 9:40-10:00. For recovery runs let them really be recovery and don't be afraid to go to 10:30 or more.

Mr. Guappa

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Sorry i have looked through lots of posts at the start of this but can't find the one i'm looking for! Just to clarify my easy run & LSR should be done between 9.40 & 10 min miles then my recovery over the 10 mins? I'm just conscious i have speed up a bit recently:)

Cheers!

No problem!

PMP runs at 9:20/mi, with easy and LSR pace then being 10:20 or thereabouts. Recovery can be slower again.

skyblue46

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

No problem!

PMP runs at 9:20/mi, with easy and LSR pace then being 10:20 or thereabouts. Recovery can be slower again.

Apologies....:(

Mr. Guappa

skyblue46 wrote: »

Apologies....:(

No worries

You've caused me to go back and look again actually.

I'd say PMP at 9:00 and easy/LSR pace 10:00-10:20.

kulekat

skyblue46 wrote: »

kulekat wrote: »

With this in mind, then would it be safe to assume that a slightly 'stronger' or 'more experienced' runner should do the boards plan compared to the HH plan?

Comparing total mileage of both plans, boards has over 100 more miles in total over the full training period.

Im not trying to change plans, just thinking out loud to get your opinions

Definitely the Boards plan is for the runner with a better base. The HH1 plan is the marathon equivalent to Couch to 5k. It is simply designed to build endurance enough to get a person around the course. It is ideal for runners with very little recent past running experience. The Boards plan is a step up from this and requires more of a base.

Remember that training should be done to present fitness and endurance levels. Training to a more advanced plan before you are ready for it will not make you stronger or faster. It will fatigue and/or injure you.

That makes perfect sense! Thanks for the clarification, good to get the background rationale. Cheers!!