Farmers should be forced to cut their emissions

CosmicFool

Oh do blame the cows. Not the million of gas burning vehicles used everyday or the oil/gas that's used to heat homes, the peat burned to keep the electricity going in your house. No it's all those cows that's are the problem.

the_syco

lfc200 wrote: »

Ration the amount of beans that a farmer can consume in your grand plan?

Ration the amount of buses that a farmer can consume is his grand plan?

marvin80

CosmicFool wrote: »

Oh do blame the cows. Not the million of gas burning vehicles used everyday or the oil/gas that's used to heat homes, the peat burned to keep the electricity going in your house. No it's all those cows that's are the problem.

Exactly - we should probably cut back on flights as much as possible but that will never happen - there worth too much €€€€€ and that's the bottom line

RobertKK

Unearthly wrote: »

Utterly bizarre post

Of course it is utterly bizarre.

People who go vegan for climate change reasons would need many hundreds of millions of cattle slaughtered around the world. Some of these people make out farming is cruel but they are in fact advocating the mass slaughter of cows, sheep, pigs, chickens and other animals and birds like never seen before in the history of mankind since in their utopia there would be no need for these animals and birds to be alive as there would be no one to eat them.
I never hear vegans talk about the final solution for all these animals and birds.

So what do people who talk about the climate and the need for everyone to go plant based because producing meat and dairy for human consumption is somehow cruel and the need to cut to emissions from farms, want done with all the animals and birds that would need to be slaughtered?

Thelonious Monk

RobertKK wrote: »

Of course it is utterly bizarre.

People who go vegan for climate change reasons would need many hundreds of millions of cattle slaughtered around the world. Some of these people make out farming is cruel but they are in fact advocating the mass slaughter of cows, sheep, pigs, chickens and other animals and birds like never seen before in the history of mankind since in their utopia there would be no need for these animals and birds to be alive as there would be no one to eat them.
I never hear vegans talk about the final solution for all these animals and birds.

So what do people who talk about the climate and the need for everyone to go plant based because producing meat and dairy for human consumption is somehow cruel and the need to cut to emissions from farms, want done with all the animals and birds that would need to be slaughtered?

are you seriously this thick?

Thelonious Monk

can someone tell me why we had to pay for cattle feed last summer? didn't farmers run out of food for cows after it was sunny for 2 weeks? does that not maybe indicate there are too many cows here?

Yurt2

I can see it now, aggressive cows stalking the streets of our towns and cities, smoking fags on street corners and licking innocent passers-by without fear of repercussion.

We need tougher laws to deal with these scumbag cows the people will cry! My taxes paying for these bovine good-for-nothings while work 47 hours a day and coummute 4 days each way!

_Brian

There is zero credible evidence that the population planet wide could be sustained by vegan lifestyle.

We have some vegan funded research but that’s not credible because it’s biased based on a religious like belief system. It’s as likely it would result in a massive planet wide famine.

From a farming perspective I see three important points.

1, escalate the current research on the actual carbon stance regarding farming where it properly accounts for carbon sequestration, do like Australia and offer financial supports for the systems that best sequester carbon.

2, get animals into natural environments, end cage farming, move pigs to outdoor rearing and bam feedlots for cattle, this improves animal welfare and the lower stocking densities reduce impacts.

3, proper approach to forestry. Currently the only winners are the forestry companies who after a weeks work walk away with a wad of cash and the rest of us are left with poor quality forestry. Natural native species only for payments, with continuous canopy management, payments for the lifetime of the forestry.

CosmicFool

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

can someone tell me why we had to pay for cattle feed last summer? didn't farmers run out of food for cows after it was sunny for 2 weeks? does that not maybe indicate there are too many cows here?

Yes let's get rid of all the cows. That'll fix all the problems.

Thelonious Monk

CosmicFool wrote: »

Yes let's get rid of all the cows. That'll fix all the problems.

Maybe some of them. Why do we need 7 million if we export 90%?

RobertKK

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Maybe some of them. Why do we need 7 million if we export 90%?

It feeds people and brings in much needed money to rural areas of the economy.

Thelonious Monk

RobertKK wrote: »

It feeds people and brings in much needed money to rural areas of the economy.

Do you think we should put a cap on how many cows we have in Ireland or should it keep expanding?

boggerman1

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

can someone tell me why we had to pay for cattle feed last summer? didn't farmers run out of food for cows after it was sunny for 2 weeks? does that not maybe indicate there are too many cows here?

It was more than sunny for 2 weeks.the lack of rainfall burnt everything to a crisp.I'm lucky here in my place in most yrs grow grass to beat the band but even by mid July I was struggling and had to use silage I had cut in early June.the dairying side of farming has expanded but its compensated by a reduction in the suckler herd on the other side.all this dairy expansion will die away in a while.there are lads getting into milking cows that never did before.a few yrs of hard work and they will be gone again.to be a dairy farmer u have to be brought up in it.its a tough gig but after the springtime its not too bad if u can get away from it for breaks once u have a decent setup

suicide_circus

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Maybe some of them. Why do we need 7 million if we export 90%?

whats your alternative income source for these people? let me guess, universal basic income?

Thelonious Monk

boggerman1 wrote: »

It was more than sunny for 2 weeks.the lack of rainfall burnt everything to a crisp.I'm lucky here in my place in most yrs grow grass to beat the band but even by mid July I was struggling and had to use silage I had cut in early June.the dairying side of farming has expanded but its compensated by a reduction in the suckler herd on the other side.all this dairy expansion will die away in a while.there are lads getting into milking cows that never did before.a few yrs of hard work and they will be gone again.to be a dairy farmer u have to be brought up in it.its a tough gig but after the springtime its not too bad if u can get away from it for breaks once u have a decent setup

So obviously I'm clueless with this stuff - but the part of Spain I go to every year is pretty much dry from about now until October or so. They seem to manage their water quite well there, canals going through farms etc.
Why isn't this an issue in far dryer places than here?

Thelonious Monk

suicide_circus wrote: »

whats your alternative income source for these people? let me guess, universal basic income?

I don't have one - but can we really just keep growing the dairy and beef industry? Is it sustainable to do so?

CosmicFool

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you think we should put a cap on how many cows we have in Ireland or should it keep expanding?

Ireland was built on farming. That is not going to change anytime soon. Can I ask why you've a problem with cattle?

boggerman1

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So obviously I'm clueless with this stuff - but the part of Spain I go to every year is pretty much dry from about now until October or so. They seem to manage their water quite well there, canals going through farms etc.
Why isn't this an issue in far dryer places than here?

That's Spain.we in Ireland normally don't get a summer like last yr every year.although it might become the norm.if we get a repeat this yr it will be worse than 18 for everyone,not just farmers.the rainfall since last summer hasn't been over and above average.I see in my local area river and streams very low to average at best.farming in Ireland is an outdoor job.house for winter out by early march in the south to early April up west/north.

CosmicFool

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So obviously I'm clueless with this stuff - but the part of Spain I go to every year is pretty much dry from about now until October or so. They seem to manage their water quite well there, canals going through farms etc.
Why isn't this an issue in far dryer places than here?

Because what we experienced last year was rare. We don't get many dry spells so we don't need canals to carry water or major reservoirs where Spain is quite a dry country and does need this infrastructure.

zapitastas

con___manx1 wrote: »

i haven't eaten beef in 15 years. I was put off by a tv program about how they are slaughtered. the bse cjd and horse meat scandal put me off beef aswell. there could be 10 different cows in a beef burger just imagine that and even more cows in your lasagna ; )
im not a vegetarian I eat mainly chicken and fish. beef farming causes more emission in Ireland than all the cars on the road apparently.

You would be a lot safer eating Irish beef than chicken or fish. You would never really catch someone farming chickens that would consume their own product. Chicken and pig farming is grotesque in relation to beef where the livestock has been pasture reared

RobertKK

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you think we should put a cap on how many cows we have in Ireland or should it keep expanding?

The problem is this:
Farms need to keep getting bigger and more intense since cost of living, inputs and so on rise but the price the farmer is paid doesn't change much year to year, sometimes good, sometimes very bad.
This encourages farms to get bigger to be more efficient.

What is encouraging more and more cows and cattle in general is a system that is making family farms less and less viable.
If we want to put a cap on things, then more needs to be done to encourage and support less intensive farming while making it a viable option.
The government's agricultural plan is to increase food exports, to increase intensification and reduce overall farmer numbers because this is where it all leads to currently- less farmers but more cattle.

There are no real long term measures to support less intensive and thus less viable operations which are most likely the best for the environment.
The policies push for further intensification.

Thelonious Monk

Why would anyone get into the business these days? It sounds like a nightmare.

CosmicFool

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why would anyone get into the business these days? It sounds like a nightmare.

Most farms are family run so they've grown up with it and don't know anything else. We used to have a farm but lease all the land/sheds to neighbours.

It is profitable if you treat it like an actual business and not something on the side. A lot of smaller farmers have full time jobs. They usually keep the farm to get the subsidies or just to keep the farm in the family.

People like the hard graft. It's what they've grown up with.

Thelonious Monk

CosmicFool wrote: »

Most farms are family run so they've grown up with it and don't know anything else. We used to have a farm but lease all the land/sheds to neighbours.

It is profitable if you treat it like an actual business and not something on the side. A lot of smaller farmers have full time jobs. They usually keep the farm to get the subsidies or just to keep the farm in the family.

People like the hard graft. It's what they've grown up with.

Would you want your kids to get into it?

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you think we should put a cap on how many cows we have in Ireland or should it keep expanding?

Thats actually a really complex question...

As a previous posted shown in the figures we're not really adding many new cows but rather we are changing the profile of cows from beef herds to dairy herds..
I think this is a good move overall, dairy is a vastly more profitable business, problem is it needs large farms, so we're seeing more and more dairy in parts of the country where farms are large and land is good, other parts like Cavan and Leitrim are seeing essentially no growth in dairy cow numbers as the farms are small and land is poor so dairy doesnt do well..


It is however another "issue" with far more dairy based calves now calving down each year we're increasing live shipments, not popular with many, personally I think we should be developing a veal and rose veal industry here to add value, create jobs and export the quality veal as a finished chilled product, but there is a reluctsnce in farming circles to get into veal as there would be a public backlash against slaughter of young calves..


Many of the dairy calves are suitable for beef and many farms have dropped beef cows and rear these dairy beef calves and they are slaughtered into the food chain here at approx 2 years, its as profitable as suckler farming at present and easier to manage on marginal lands, again i feel more work needs to be done here, we could improve these calves further and then shring beef cow numbers substabtially, replacing their beef with beef raised from the dairy calves as they improve in quality.


I thnk with proper managment we can grow our profitable dairy industry and have a decent beef industry without increasing overall cow numbers significantly.

Cina

paw patrol wrote: »

farming feeds us. it should be the very last thing to be taxed.
plenty more luxuries out there to curtail - not tax cos I believe most tax is theft as it's wasted on utter sh1te

it feeds us, but what we eat is a massive, massive waste. Meat accounts for 17% of food eaten by humans and over 80% of all food consumed worldwide goes to making it (i.e. feeding the animals). Whatever way you look at it, meat is a luxury that is very costly both in resources and carbon emissions.

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Would you want your kids to get into it?

Its a surprisingly enjoyable lifestyle, I appreciate you probably dont understand that but it is, caring for animals, seeing them happy and thriving is a great thrill, its part of human nature to work with domesticated animals, i feel people are loosing out by not being connected to farms where their food comes from, its natural..


My kids spend some time on the farm, one loves it, the other not so much, in time I can see much more horses than cattle but each generation does what it sees best, we don't do what my father did.. They are involved with rearing calves which sell for beef, chickens for our own eggs and pigs for our own table. We grow small amounts of fruit and veg too.

Thelonious Monk

_Brian wrote: »

Its a surprisingly enjoyable lifestyle, I appreciate you probably dont understand that but it is, caring for animals, seeing them happy and thriving is a great thrill, its part of human nature to work with domesticated animals, i feel people are loosing out by not being connected to farms where their food comes from, its natural..


My kids spend some time on the farm, one loves it, the other not so much, in time I can see much more horses than cattle but each generation does what it sees best, we don't do what my father did.. They are involved with rearing calves which sell for beef, chickens for our own eggs and pigs for our own table. We grow small amounts of fruit and veg too.

I don't really eat beef, or dairy any more, once in a blue moon. If I were to see animals being slaughtered I'd probably never eat any animal product again.
I do grow as much veg as my tiny back garden allows me to though.

_Brian

Cina wrote: »

it feeds us, but what we eat is a massive, massive waste. Meat accounts for 17% of food eaten by humans and over 80% of all food consumed worldwide goes to making it (i.e. feeding the animals). Whatever way you look at it, meat is a luxury that is very costly both in resources and carbon emissions.

The majority of soy etc that goes into animal feed is the byproduct of the human food chain, if were going to have a conversation at least have an honest one based on facts..


if we supported a 100% pasture based beef production scheme I'd be happier, but the feedstuff you mention in the 80% would still be produced as its primary use is human foodchain.

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't really eat beef, or dairy any more, once in a blue moon. If I were to see animals being slaughtered I'd probably never eat any animal product again.
I do grow as much veg as my tiny back garden allows me to though.

Slaughter of animals to feed people is a natural thing, yes modern society now live in a way that most never see an animal killed, once its done humainely and the animal has been well treated all its life then its a perfectly natural process.

I don't want everyone to like it, or everyone to eat meat. I want everyone to have a choice and not be abused or belittled for making their choice, there is currently a narritive backed by big business to demonise meat eaters..


This is being done as the one thing they can't churn out in their factory vats is a good cut of beef or meat. They want however to drive the population to eating they hyper processed muck which consumes vase amounts of chemicals, energy, transport and indeed soy that people hate to see grown for animal feeds.. This is being done to further commercialise and control the food supply chain, to hand it over to larger and larger comglomerates, this is not a good thing.