Farmers should be forced to cut their emissions

SEPT 23 1989

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Fair enough but it would be decades before any wilderness reappeared in Ireland probably.
The health of our land and environment is more important than some unemployed farmers in my view, and there are plenty of opportunities in Ireland.

Nothing is going to change however, so no one need worry.

What do you do for a living may I ask?

Thelonious Monk

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

What do you do for a living may I ask?

What has that got to do with anything?

silverharp

yeah make irish farmers grow kidney beans and make almond milk

SEPT 23 1989

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What has that got to do with anything?

Everything

You seem to have no problem putting farmers and their families on the scrap heap

What do you do in life?

Thelonious Monk

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Everything

You seem to have no problem putting farmers and their families on the scrap heap

What do you do in life?

If we had coal mines or a massive plastic industry in Ireland I'd be against that too.
I like fish but I gave it up because the oceans are f*cked. If I had my way we'd stop fishing in our waters for a decade. Some fishermen would be out of work too, but it's for the greater good.

Do you think we should keep growing the beef and dairy industry? To what extent?

If you must know, I teach piano, and other music related things, hence the name.
Over the years I've worked as a chef, a labourer... all sorts.

SEPT 23 1989

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If we had coal mines or a massive plastic industry in Ireland I'd be against that too.
I like fish but I gave it up because the oceans are f*cked. If I had my way we'd stop fishing in our waters for a decade. Some fishermen would be out of work too, but it's for the greater good.

Do you think we should keep growing the beef and dairy industry? To what extent?

If you must know, I teach piano, and other music related things, hence the name.
Over the years I've worked as a chef, a labourer... all sorts.

You need to sort yourself out

Live in the here and now

Stop worrying about things that probably will never happen and you have no control over

Thelonious Monk

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

You need to sort yourself out

Live in the here and now

Stop worrying about things that probably will never happen and you have no control over

Er ok. Thanks.

Hobosan

Say we cut the amount of beef being eaten or force farmers to produce less. Then what? Well I'll tell you what, Varadker will take the remaining cows and form a government with them, as is his nature, then we will have a dictatorship like you have never seen before.

You won't have time to enjoy the environment when slogans like 'Mooove aside humans' become the norm. No siree.

Nekarsulm

Effects wrote: »

I live inside the M50 so I can drive without charge I presume? It's just for people who can't afford to live where I live?

Well that's the way the motor tax system was worked.
You can only afford an early 2008 diesel Avensis? Pay 700+ a year motor tax.
You can afford a 2009 diesel Avensis? Pay 390 a year motor tax.
Exact same engine and emissions in both.

Nekarsulm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I think something like 90% of our beef is exported. We have 7 million cattle in Ireland and that is increasing. So we have way more than we could ever need. Ideally we'd take back some of the land and plant some native trees, or "rewild" the land. Currently we have a massive beef farm with no trees as our country. It's a dirty industry as is. Not all of us eat beef or dairy either, so they're not feeding me.

Current livestock census shows bovine numbers at 6.7 million, an increase of 0.9 % over 2016 numbers.
Headlines proclaim "massive dairy expansion" but fail to mention that in order for this to happen, beef cow numbers are shrinking .
Especially since beef cattle are being bought by meat factories from farmers at below the cost of production in most cases.
This is not sustainable, especially since inflation is chewing away at the value of the SFP paid to support farmers by Brussels.

LionelNashe

kneemos wrote: »

It [seaweed] needs to be synthesised for Mass production,made cheap enough that farmers will buy it,and then somehow ensure they use it.

I think we can go further than that and just synthesise meat from stem cells. Maybe dairy too. There'd be huge environmental benefits. Unused agricultural land could be returned to a wild state.

buried

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Fair enough but it would be decades before any wilderness reappeared in Ireland probably.

There will never be any "wilderness" back up in here, even if people who want to see this scenario and remove the farmers off the land, the powers that govern this island will never allow the land to be turned into some sort of wilderness tree reserve. The climate here is made for grass growth. Highly rich land. If by some crazy chance the farmers and the rural community were actually removed, the government would just hand the land over to large corporations for those outfits to farm the rich land on a huge ranch size corporate effort. Which would result in worse emissions and far more devastation. At least present day farmers have hedges for the wild birds and other wildlife to exist in. That won't happen if some monsanto like entity takes it over. They'll just farm every single square inch of the rich soil. Be careful what you wish for.

boggerman1

friendlyfun wrote: »

Think about how much carbon methane etc that they emit. Its absolutely disgusting and it's me the taxman that wilm suffer

Why don't u feck off and hug a tree or go vegan crap.farmer and proud to be and we do care about the environment.every industry has its problems.

Nekarsulm

LionelNashe wrote: »

I think we can go further than that and just synthesise meat from stem cells. Maybe dairy too. There'd be huge environmental benefits. Unused agricultural land could be returned to a wild state.

Don't worry, the big chemical and pharmaceutical conglomerates are way ahead of you.
Look at the recent Lancet report, paving the way for chemically engineered meat and paid for by a pair of Swedish hotel billionaires in conjunction with a Saudi Prince, both parties with extensive interests in just such conglomerates.

Gunmonkey

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If we had coal mines or a massive plastic industry in Ireland I'd be against that too.
I like fish but I gave it up because the oceans are f*cked. If I had my way we'd stop fishing in our waters for a decade. Some fishermen would be out of work too, but it's for the greater good.

Do you think we should keep growing the beef and dairy industry? To what extent?

If you must know, I teach piano, and other music related things, hence the name.
Over the years I've worked as a chef, a labourer... all sorts.

Want to make this change to the Irish farming industry? Then start paying more for your food!

Farmers get screwed by factories and stores for costs every day. You think its reasonable to buy a net of onions or bag of carrots for 49c? Make it so growing crops is a better return for farmers and you could see more switch from meat/dairy.

Farmers, like everyone else, will go where the money is best. Shop exclusively at farm stores or at farmers markets. Make these reliable revenue streams for farmers. Incentivize them to switch to tillage rather than force them out like you want! Or is that bad as now you will now be disadvantaged with paying more and cant be having that, now can we!

You want a lovely, wooded Ireland....even if its by forcing farmers off their land (for the greater good, of course!). Fine...be the model for it: level your house, plant a bunch of saplings in the site and live on the street! Its for the greater good so I cant see you objecting to it! Also, dont charge for music lessons anymore: why should Irish musical culture be gated by you demanding money? For the greater good lets spread more of our proud Irish musical heritage to all!

(And for the record, between my family having about 15% of our land as forestry and personally planting dozens of trees as new hedges or orchards, Ive done far more to advance your cause than yourself......so....catch up!)

uck51js9zml2yt

I agree with the op.
Stick a cork up the ass of every cow.that will sort out those smelly beasts.

Pero_Bueno

What about rich tossers driving around in massive SUVs that they don't need OP ?

_Brian

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Easy way to make that happen

Guarentee forestry subsidies for the duration of the forests maturity period, currently it's fifteen years, needs to be three times that

Absolutely..
But only on native forestry and only for continuous canopy managment..


Not another € should be paid on stika spruce plantation, its the nuclear detanation of forestry.. dirty, dark, lifeless forestry producing cheap nasty timber.

Feisar

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Want to make this change to the Irish farming industry? Then start paying more for your food!

Farmers get screwed by factories and stores for costs every day. You think its reasonable to buy a net of onions or bag of carrots for 49c? Make it so growing crops is a better return for farmers and you could see more switch from meat/dairy.

Farmers, like everyone else, will go where the money is best. Shop exclusively at farm stores or at farmers markets. Make these reliable revenue streams for farmers. Incentivize them to switch to tillage rather than force them out like you want! Or is that bad as now you will now be disadvantaged with paying more and cant be having that, now can we!

You want a lovely, wooded Ireland....even if its by forcing farmers off their land (for the greater good, of course!). Fine...be the model for it: level your house, plant a bunch of saplings in the site and live on the street! Its for the greater good so I cant see you objecting to it! Also, dont charge for music lessons anymore: why should Irish musical culture be gated by you demanding money? For the greater good lets spread more of our proud Irish musical heritage to all!

(And for the record, between my family having about 15% of our land as forestry and personally planting dozens of trees as new hedges or orchards, Ive done far more to advance your cause than yourself......so....catch up!)

I agree food is too cheap however it's not a choice nine times out of ten between beef or crops, it's the type of land that decides.

RobertKK

Will the vegans help eat all the cattle that are needed to be killed to reduce methane emissions? Or are they just all talk about the environment those who go vegan for climate reasons but then don't plan on doing anything to reduce cattle numbers, cattle will need to be killed to reduce overall numbers. Should existing cattle be denied a sex life because they breed more cattle when they want sex and they want a baby which they want? To me that would be animal cruelty.

tl/dr: Vegans are not eating cattle which helps increase emissions from cattle, and promote animal cruelty by wanting cattle who want a sex life and offspring to be denied it.

Charles Babbage

There is a issue with the measurement of emissions. If Saudi Arabia produces oil and we burn it in Ireland then we get the emissions counted in Ireland, which is fair enough as those who get the benefit of the consumption get the emissions. But if a person in Germany eats Irish cheese (see the reports on Kerrygold sales during the week) then the emissions are counted in Ireland, not Germany.
If Ireland closed all farming and imported all cheese etc then we would have no emissions but the total emissions in the world would not have changed.

Yurt2

I never knew there was folks out there that cared so deeply for cattle's sex life.

It takes all types I suppose.

Yurt2

Charles Babbage wrote: »

There is a issue with the measurement of emissions. If Saudi Arabia produces oil and we burn it in Ireland then we get the emissions counted in Ireland, which is fair enough as those who get the benefit of the consumption get the emissions. But if a person in Germany eats Irish cheese (see the reports on Kerrygold sales during the week) then the emissions are counted in Ireland, not Germany.
If Ireland closed all farming and imported all cheese etc then we would have no emissions but the total emissions in the world would not have changed.

If one burns fossil fuel in Ireland then (the elective) harm done rests largely in Ireland and the Irish environment.

A slice of Dairylea eaten in Hamburg doesn't adversely effect the German environment (bar the transport and disposal of packaging one supposes). The adverse environmental effects of production happened in Ireland.

How the emissions are counted seems fair to me. I think the farming lobby is trying out that line of thinking to get the problem off their doorstep somewhat.

con___manx1

i haven't eaten beef in 15 years. I was put off by a tv program about how they are slaughtered. the bse cjd and horse meat scandal put me off beef aswell. there could be 10 different cows in a beef burger just imagine that and even more cows in your lasagna ; )
im not a vegetarian I eat mainly chicken and fish. beef farming causes more emission in Ireland than all the cars on the road apparently.

Yurt2

buried wrote: »

There will never be any "wilderness" back up in here, even if people who want to see this scenario and remove the farmers off the land, the powers that govern this island will never allow the land to be turned into some sort of wilderness tree reserve. The climate here is made for grass growth. Highly rich land. If by some crazy chance the farmers and the rural community were actually removed, the government would just hand the land over to large corporations for those outfits to farm the rich land on a huge ranch size corporate effort. Which would result in worse emissions and far more devastation. At least present day farmers have hedges for the wild birds and other wildlife to exist in. That won't happen if some monsanto like entity takes it over. They'll just farm every single square inch of the rich soil. Be careful what you wish for.

You're taking as if you're a kulak and Stalin is coming for you. We have laws in this country and a constitution - relax.

I covered this in another (contentious) thread, but the reality is the overwhelming amount of 'rural' Irish people have very little connection with the land. The live in the middle of a field in a big house, shop in Lidl, and go to work in urban centres via car. We (I'm from bungalowville myself) live like suburban Texans, not some pastoral folk-heros in touch with nature running through the Meadows picking flowers

_Brian

con___manx1 wrote: »

i haven't eaten beef in 15 years. I was put off by a tv program about how they are slaughtered. the bse cjd and horse meat scandal put me off beef aswell. there could be 10 different cows in a beef burger just imagine that and even more cows in your lasagna ; )
im not a vegetarian I eat mainly chicken and fish. beef farming causes more emission in Ireland than all the cars on the road apparently.

as a beef farmer id rarely eat a burger and even at that it would be home made from steak minced at request... people should be eating whole cuts of meat, thats the premium product, burgers are a fast food by-product.


again regarding the emmissions, its currently incorrectly recorded as the carbon sequestered into soils and locked there isnt accounted for..


I'm not saying all beef farming is equal... we should absolutely ban feed lot farming where by regulation the cattle cant be out at pasture but must remain indoors until slaughter... this is factory farming USA style and we should absolutely push back against this practice..
low density pasture reared beef is a premium low impact product, small family farms should be supported above factory farms, that is how we control emmissions from beef farming AND continue to produce a premium product...


The pasture fed brand emerging in the UK is a great move and it should be embraced here too.

Unearthly

RobertKK wrote: »

Will the vegans help eat all the cattle that are needed to be killed to reduce methane emissions? Or are they just all talk about the environment those who go vegan for climate reasons but then don't plan on doing anything to reduce cattle numbers, cattle will need to be killed to reduce overall numbers. Should existing cattle be denied a sex life because they breed more cattle when they want sex and they want a baby which they want? To me that would be animal cruelty.

tl/dr: Vegans are not eating cattle which helps increase emissions from cattle, and promote animal cruelty by wanting cattle who want a sex life and offspring to be denied it.

Utterly bizarre post

_Brian

The whole "take back the land" comments here are both hillarious and stupid, posters are just embarrasing themselves now


Why dont you give your house over to the state and let them home some addicts and criminals in it with you ?? No ?? No, its your private property and cant be taken from you..


Farmland is the same, its private property paid for by the owners, it cannot be taken back in some sort of communist style rebellion to plant forestry... I'm all for native natural continuous canopy forestry, but farmers must be compensated and paid to manage this resource for the nation... I'd welcome a proper scheme where payments are on the lifetime of the forestry..

YFlyer

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I heard something about mixing seaweed into cattle feed and that is supposed to stop them farting so much.

Anyone know anything about it?

Does it work for humans too?

Their burps.

Green&Red

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I wasn't thinking about tourism for a second. It doesn't have to be about money all the time although that's all that seems to matter in Ireland. It's just wrong for the whole island to be a farm. We have hardly any national parks or woodland cover.
How about we just leave some of the country alone and let it replenish. If you google river pollution in Ireland it's just shocking, the amount of spillages and toxic waste that gets into our rivers, farming is often involved.
When I was a kid in the 80s there were so many different types of bees and insects that we used to collect in jars. These are all disappearing.
Salmon aren't coming back to spawn here any more. Would you blame them!

A lot of what you're saying is unfounded but this leaped out.
Majority, and I mean 90%, of water pollution comes from domestic and industrial waste water, predominately town sewerage going directly into waterways, the department of the marine have rated this

Farmers have strict exclusion zones around waterways for slurry and pesticides, very heavily policed.

You mentioned forestry, we're at a 350 year high
around 7% of the country's land. I would completely disagree with how we've done it, f**king spruce trees are the bane of the country


Irish farmers are incentivised to move towards more sustainable farming but we're being compared to European farmers who have no livestock, its not a realistic picture.

The expansion in dairy has led to a decrease in emissions, cross bred dairy cows are lighter than traditional beef herds.

You're talking about letting Ireland grow wild, such nonsense, where does that argument stop? Cars are dirty so lets move back to horses, same with the combustion engine, lets move back from there? Where do we stop?

How about we tackle the problem in front of us instead of nonsensical suggestions.

Ireland is THE most efficient and green country in the world to produce beef and dairy, the Origin Green project is a massive success coupled with our grass based diet. We should be growing our agricultural industries as we can do it better than any other country in the world.


If you're free sometime I'll tell you how to teach music, of course I know nothing about it but sure why would I let that stop me