Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

Part of me hopes Finlay & Doak keep their upward trajectory. I hear & see David Hunprheys son getting media attention. I hope Ulster don’t feel like they owe him a chance. If he gets a chance, it must be on merit not the ole mans contacts/legacy.

Just have this picture of Doak moving to 9 to accommodate Humphrey at the cost of Finaly.

How does McKee rate?

Not sure how good he is, although ironically, similar to Doak and Humphreys (or at least before 99), his dad also played for Ulster, slightly before Doak and Humphreys I think.

Regards James Humphreys, I'd like to think that Ulster are too professional these days to go down the nepotism route. If he is good enough then great. It might still help having a name to get an Ulster Schools Jersey, but when it comes to things like the Academy I just think it would be self defeating for Ulster not to be selecting the best players irrespective of who someone's dad is.

Paul Smeenus

bilston wrote: »

Not sure how good he is, although ironically, similar to Doak and Humphreys (or at least before 99), his dad also played for Ulster, slightly before Doak and Humphreys I think.

Regards James Humphreys, I'd like to think that Ulster are too professional these days to go down the nepotism route. If he is good enough then great. It might still help having a name to get an Ulster Schools Jersey, but when it comes to things like the Academy I just think it would be self defeating for Ulster not to be selecting the best players irrespective of who someone's dad is.

Don't confuse an easy, research-free angle for journos with Ulster's attitude. It's just another facile angle for the press, along the lines of Keith Earls' da Ger and what D4 public schoolboy team various Leinster young guns played for. Humphreys was in the Gloucester academy - he's obviously got something about him.

If Rhys O'Donnell didn't have a massive attitude problem, other provinces or professional teams would have come calling for him.

It's ironic that Ulster are seeing these problems with contracts (first), given our finances must have been the most supported over the last nine months, with the UK government's furlough payments.

irishbucsfan

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Don't confuse an easy, research-free angle for journos with Ulster's attitude. It's just another facile angle for the press, along the lines of Keith Earls' da Ger and what D4 public schoolboy team various Leinster young guns played for. Humphreys was in the Gloucester academy - he's obviously got something about him.

If Rhys O'Donnell didn't have a massive attitude problem, other provinces or professional teams would have come calling for him.

It's ironic that Ulster are seeing these problems with contracts (first), given our finances must have been the most supported over the last nine months, with the UK government's furlough payments.

I don’t think Ulster are seeing the problems first. Rumours rife that POM is off to France for example.

The only person confirmed leaving is Coetzee and the decision to make that public came from outside Ireland.

I’d say we could be all be waiting a long time before we hear anything else. The most important source of revenue is the 6 Nations and it’s still not at all clear if that will go ahead and if it will all be behind closed doors. Once the answers to that are known there’s still loads to unpack. I’d say the main problem is that the good offers from UK/France won’t wait around for that long...

Paul Smeenus

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don’t think Ulster are seeing the problems first. Rumours rife that POM is off to France for example.

The only person confirmed leaving is Coetzee and the decision to make that public came from outside Ireland.

I’d say we could be all be waiting a long time before we hear anything else. The most important source of revenue is the 6 Nations and it’s still not at all clear if that will go ahead and if it will all be behind closed doors. Once the answers to that are known there’s still loads to unpack. I’d say the main problem is that the good offers from UK/France won’t wait around for that long...

Good points. We know about Coetzee because of the Bulls - the Cooney stuff may or may not just be hysteria.

I suppose knowing that the IRFU aren't discussing contracts until January has allowed lots of agents and other teams to try to take advantage of uncertainty - agents so they can say to the IRFU "we already have an offer in the table from elsewhere" and other teams to try to tempt players who might be getting antsy.

launish116

Just to give us an idea where we sit squad wise.

Senior contracts due to expire in 2021
Rob Herring
Iain Henderson
Kieran Treadwell
Alby Mathewson
Ian Madigan
Luke Marshall
Angus Curtis
Craig Gilroy
Louis Ludik retire

Senior contracts potentially due to expire in 2021
Eric O’Sullivan
Andrew Warwick
John Andrew
Adam McBurney
Ross Kane
Gareth Milasinovich
Alan O’Connor
David O’Connor
Sam Carter
Greg Jones
Nick Timoney
Marcus Rea
Dave Shanahan
Bill Johnston
Michael Lowry
Matt Faddes
Robert Baloucoune
Bradley Roberts

Definitely a few players value will have gone up, whilst some will have decreased with academy pushing through.

Few academy may progress onto development contracts as well.

Stout Warrior

awec wrote: »

Private money is the only way forward for the sport.

Yes because that works out so well for the English clubs and the RFU. If you don’t have TV companies willing to put in a serious bid for the league privatising the provinces will never work.

Paul Smeenus

The absolute priority contract literally more important than any other, is getting Dan to sign on for another two or three years.

Hands Like Flippers

awec wrote: »

Private money is the only way forward for the sport.

And/or open for spectators again...

Utah_Saint

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/opinion/pw-farewell-coetzee

Pro14 editor needs a boot in the stones for this headline....I honestly thought we signed Kolisi...!!!

launish116

Utah_Saint wrote: »

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/opinion/pw-farewell-coetzee

Pro14 editor needs a boot in the stones for this headline....I honestly thought we signed Kolisi...!!!

Ha, saw that earlier! Thought same.

Paul Williams well worth a follow on Twitter.

This is also worth wee read https://www.thefrontrowunion.com/2020/12/replacing-marcell-coetzee-what-the-stats-say/

thomond2006

Utah_Saint wrote: »

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/opinion/pw-farewell-coetzee

Pro14 editor needs a boot in the stones for this headline....I honestly thought we signed Kolisi...!!!

Bwhahaha. 10/10 on the headline.

launish116

2021 has started well.

Ulster team to play Munster, Guinness PRO14 Round 10, Saturday 2 January at Kingspan Stadium (kick-off 5.15pm, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Ethan McIlroy, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Kieran Treadwell, Sam Carter (Capt.), Matty Rea, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, David O’Connor, Marcell Coetzee, Nathan Doak, Ian Madigan, Ben Moxham.



Weakened Munster side:
Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Dan Goggin, Rory Scannell, Liam Coombes; Ben Healy, Craig Casey;
Liam O’Connor, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Fineen Wycherley, Billy Holland (c); Jack O’Donoghue, Chris Cloete, Jack O’Sullivan.

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Dave Kilcoyne, Roman Salanoa, Thomas Ahern, Tommy O’Donnell, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Darren Sweetnam.

bilston

launish116 wrote: »

2021 has started well.

Ulster team to play Munster, Guinness PRO14 Round 10, Saturday 2 January at Kingspan Stadium (kick-off 5.15pm, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Ethan McIlroy, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Kieran Treadwell, Sam Carter (Capt.), Matty Rea, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, David O’Connor, Marcell Coetzee, Nathan Doak, Ian Madigan, Ben Moxham.



Weakened Munster side:
Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Dan Goggin, Rory Scannell, Liam Coombes; Ben Healy, Craig Casey;
Liam O’Connor, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Fineen Wycherley, Billy Holland (c); Jack O’Donoghue, Chris Cloete, Jack O’Sullivan.

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Dave Kilcoyne, Roman Salanoa, Thomas Ahern, Tommy O’Donnell, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Darren Sweetnam.

Wow...very exciting selection from Ulster.

You say its a weakened Munster team...but...I actually think if I was a Munster fan I'd say that team is quite exciting too. Lots of young talent in there. Looking forward to this now.

launish116

bilston wrote: »

Wow...very exciting selection from Ulster.

You say its a weakened Munster team...but...I actually think if I was a Munster fan I'd say that team is quite exciting too. Lots of young talent in there. Looking forward to this now.

Big shake up from Ulster, that surely is the most experimental team we’ve put out in a long time. Hopefully Dan uses the bench and lets the likes of Reid & Doak get more than a token 5 minutes.

Definitely exciting from Munster, same sorta team I would of expected us to send next week to Leinster before the play off change.

Paul Smeenus

Delighted with that Ulster team. Lot of youth.

Locke_Lamora

launish116 wrote: »

Big shake up from Ulster, that surely is the most experimental team we’ve put out in a long time. Hopefully Dan uses the bench and lets the likes of Reid & Doak get more than a token 5 minutes.

Definitely exciting from Munster, same sorta team I would of expected us to send next week to Leinster before the play off change.

It's experimental in the right way, which is key. McIlroy and Moxham will be surrounded with experienced backline players, and hopefully Burn will still be on when Doak gets a chance. Would've liked Coetzee to carry the ball more, but the forward pack is strong which puts less pressure on McCann and Reid.

Munster have a more weakened side, but lots of experience and good players in there, so it'll be a tough game. This is the sort of game I want to see us take it out of there hands and really make a mark as a better side.

launish116

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

It's experimental in the right way, which is key. McIlroy and Moxham will be surrounded with experienced backline players, and hopefully Burn will still be on when Doak gets a chance. Would've liked Coetzee to carry the ball more, but forward pack is strong which puts less pressure on McCann and Reid.

Munster have a more weakened side, but lots of experience and good players in there, so it'll be a tough game. This is the sort of game I want to see us take it out of there hands and really make a mark as a better side.

Really hope this is how things will start to develop going forward, next week aside & Euro aside.

Guess only advantage to McCann is he’s not on as a blindside or 8 and isn’t being relied on for go forward. Guessing Coetzee is going to be brought on to assist Doak with some go forward. Really looking forward to this game now.

bilston

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

It's experimental in the right way, which is key. McIlroy and Moxham will be surrounded with experienced backline players, and hopefully Burn will still be on when Doak gets a chance. Would've liked Coetzee to carry the ball more, but forward pack is strong which puts less pressure on McCann and Reid.

Totally agree with this. I've always questioned the wisdom of sending down a team with 8 Academy players surrounded by 7 squad players. Yes the Academy players get a big match build up experience, but they inevitably end up getting beaten and probably go into the match knowing that already.

Throwing 3 or 4 into a matchday squad alongside Stockdale, Burns, Coetzee, Herring and Marty Moore is surely much more beneficial to the young lads.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

2021 has started well.

Ulster team to play Munster, Guinness PRO14 Round 10, Saturday 2 January at Kingspan Stadium (kick-off 5.15pm, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Matt Faddes, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Ethan McIlroy, Billy Burns, John Cooney;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Kieran Treadwell, Sam Carter (Capt.), Matty Rea, David McCann, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, David O’Connor, Marcell Coetzee, Nathan Doak, Ian Madigan, Ben Moxham.



Weakened Munster side:
Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Dan Goggin, Rory Scannell, Liam Coombes; Ben Healy, Craig Casey;
Liam O’Connor, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Fineen Wycherley, Billy Holland (c); Jack O’Donoghue, Chris Cloete, Jack O’Sullivan.

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Dave Kilcoyne, Roman Salanoa, Thomas Ahern, Tommy O’Donnell, Nick McCarthy, Jack Crowley, Darren Sweetnam.

What's the bold about? No bold for Moxham or McIlroy?

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

What's the bold about? No bold for Moxham or McIlroy?

Just players of note, McIroy & Moxham played last week. The rest we haven’t really seen before or in weeks.

Interesting to see has Doak leapfrogged Finlay.

Paul Smeenus

launish116 wrote: »

Just players of note, McIroy & Moxham played last week. The rest we haven’t really seen before or in weeks.

Interesting to see has Doak leapfrogged Finlay.

Had a quick look - Doak turned 19 two weeks ago. Serious vote of confidence in him.

Also, Moxham isn't even in the Academy - he's sub-Academy? What age is he?

Reid will be 22 next week.

One thing I noticed last week about McIlroy was his timing when hitting players catching the ball. At least twice it was just a one-two of catch, blam. Connacht players knocked back, but nowhere near a penalty for hitting early. I was impressed by it.

Locke_Lamora

launish116 wrote: »

Interesting to see has Doak leapfrogged Finlay.

Been that way for a while, he's always made the A games ahead of him. Certainly seems to be something the coaches fancy more about him anyway. Not really sure who's better myself tbh, was more impressed by Finlay at age-grade level but Doak was sometimes playing 10 then.

Locke_Lamora

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Had a quick look - Doak turned 19 two weeks ago. Serious vote of confidence in him.

Also, Moxham isn't even in the Academy - he's sub-Academy? What age is he?

Reid will be 22 next week.

One thing I noticed last week about McIlroy was his timing when hitting players catching the ball. At least twice it was just a one-two of catch, blam. Connacht players knocked back, but nowhere near a penalty for hitting early. I was impressed by it.

Moxham is still u20 this year, you would imagine this would be a good audition for an academy place.

Feels like Reid is coming through quite late, as his school mates have already played so much (Lowry and Hume). But he's plenty young for a prop that took a year out. If he can scrum then I'd love to see him ahead of McCall next year.

I've actually seen McIlroy miss a fair few of those tackles at u20, but he's always played stronger than his frame suggests.

launish116

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Had a quick look - Doak turned 19 two weeks ago. Serious vote of confidence in him.

Scary ain’t it!

Also, Moxham isn't even in the Academy - he's sub-Academy? What age is he?

Can’t say I know much about him, but as you say he’s not in academy and getting game time. He looks like a big athletic lump. Looks like his versatility is helping.

Reid will be 22 next week.

Really is a huge opportunity for Reid, sadly McCall could be on the ropes after last week. Really hope he impresses and pushes on.

One thing I noticed last week about McIlroy was his timing as when hitting players catching the ball. At least twice it was just a one-two of catch, blam. Connacht players knocked back, but nowhere near a penalty for hitting early. I was impressed by it.

He really does look a well rounded player, hopefully we’ll get to see him attacking little more.

Been that way for a while, he's always made the A games ahead of him. Certainly seems to be something the coaches fancy more about him anyway. Not really sure who's better myself tbh, was more impressed by Finlay at age-grade level but Doak was sometimes playing 10 then.

Never seen Doak in fairness. Though was impressed with Finlay during U20s. I’d be worried if I was Shanahan if Cooney stays as I’d being keeping Mathewson and fast tracking Finlay/Doak.

Paul Smeenus

For all we moan about our young bucks not getting games with the senior team, there are two potential U20s that will have played for their province, and both are Ulstermen (assuming Doak gets on).

bilston

Young lads did OK.

McCann had a decent game, nothing outstanding, but very solid, agree that he is a 6 or a 8 and not a 7, but still more than capable at this level.

Reid, yes he got a YC, but I thought he was really impressive, great to see, it would be good to see more of him.

McIlroy, man of the match, not sute about that, but he is very skilful, be interested to see him at 15

Doak probably isn't ready, but it will have been a good experience for him. His time will come.

awec

I'm not seeing it for McCann yet, though I suspect I'll be alone on that.

bilston

awec wrote: »

I'm not seeing it for McCann yet, though I suspect I'll be alone on that.

That was his first 80 mins, previously he has had two 10 minute cameos. I thought he was solid tonight, made his tackles made two or three decent carries into traffic. Give him time Awec!

The Lost Sheep

awec wrote: »

I'm not seeing it for McCann yet, though I suspect I'll be alone on that.

Not seeing what though?
He looks like he'll turn out as a good solid pro but loads of room to do lot more. what more does he need to be showing now?

launish116

awec wrote: »

I'm not seeing it for McCann yet, though I suspect I'll be alone on that.

He held his own. Seemed to make ground constantly. Full 80 mins under his belt can’t be snubbed at, especially against a stubborn Munster. Still think he’s gonna be a more athletic blindside. All in all was impressed for his first start, we haven’t had anyone near his level or with raw skills in a long time.

McIlroy is a real rounded player, seems to always make yards. Just looks so natural in attack or defence. You’d struggle to believe how green he is at senior level.

Think Doak needs more A team rugby.

Reid another player I want to see more of, still raw but if Dan can have 1/2 the influence he’s had on Otoole, EOS we’ll be in good shape.