How long before Irish reunification?

FrancieBrady

Berserker wrote: »

Really, so when the true cost comes to the fore, people will accept it? If the government said we need to increase income taxes by 12%, widen our tax base to include low paid workers and reduce social welfare to align it with the current rates in NI, you think people will be fine with that?

It is a noted falsehood of partitionists to try and state that there will always be a 'cost' to northern Ireland.

There likely will be an initial cost but the issues unification fix will see the island being better off socially and economically in the medium to long term. An investment to fix the problems created by partition is what is required

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is a noted falsehood of partitionists to try and state that there will always be a 'cost' to northern Ireland.

There likely will be an initial cost but the issues unification fix will see the island being better off socially and economically in the medium to long term. An investment to fix the problems created by partition is what is required

you sound like a brexiteer talking about a No Deal.

Greyfox

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can you not work that out yourself?
Just because partitionists in the south have divorced a whole section of Irish people and now try to portray then as 'other' does not mean that is the case.

Not withstanding the benefits of building a cohesive island where there are no separations in agriculture, tourism, industry etc, a UI would give a huge section of people a sense of belonging and empowerment in their own futures.

No, because there is no obvious benifit. It's not as simple as try to portray them as other, its more like adults are thought as children that N Ire is a different country and the different laws and currency make it feel like a different country. Maybe cohesive island where there are no separations could be a very good thing, its hard to know for sure though as it could mess up the good things that everyone is already use to by now

_blaaz

10-15 years

Greyfox wrote: »

No, because there is no obvious benifit. It's not as simple as try to portray them as other, its more like adults are thought as children that N Ire is a different country and the different laws and currency make it feel like a different country. Maybe cohesive island where there are no separations could be a very good thing, its hard to know for sure though as it could mess up the good things that everyone is already use to by now

Surely it would be good thing to bring up quality of life for citizens in the occupied 6 counties?


The brits dont care about them(tbh the way they carry on,they not fit to rule emselves no mind parts of ireland),

Its far and away the poorest region on the island.....longer its left,the bigger mess we as a state have to fix.....unless yous like irish citizens living in poverty,they argue away in favour of that

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you sound like a brexiteer talking about a No Deal.

Yawn. Maybe try and offer something constructive?

Greyfox wrote: »

No, because there is no obvious benifit. It's not as simple as try to portray them as other, its more like adults are thought as children that N Ire is a different country and the different laws and currency make it feel like a different country. Maybe cohesive island where there are no separations could be a very good thing, its hard to know for sure though as it could mess up the good things that everyone is already use to by now

My starting point here is that the 'good things' have been denied to a significant portion of my fellow Irish people for a very long time.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yawn. Maybe try and offer something constructive?

Do you have anything to support your claim that a unified country would be better off in the medium to long term? how exactly are you defining the medium to long term? How much will this exercise cost us?


Is that constructive enough?

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Do you have anything to support your claim that a unified country would be better off in the medium to long term? how exactly are you defining the medium to long term? How much will this exercise cost us?


Is that constructive enough?

Have a read.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/32/joint_committee_on_the_implementation_of_the_good_friday_agreement/reports/2017/2017-08-02_brexit-and-the-future-of-ireland-uniting-ireland-and-its-people-in-peace-and-prosperity_en.pdf

cgcsb

15-20 years

The government of the day should play it dead cool with the UK, we'll need a good deal to make the handover affordable after all. I don't mind an increase in taxation to achieve it, we could forget about foreign aid for a few years, rely on the EU for some 'integration' funds, like Germany in the reunification days, borrow from the EIB to fund infrastructure etc. easily done for a few years until former Northern Ireland has a functional private sector economy.

facehugger99

_blaaz wrote: »

Surely it would be good thing to bring up quality of life for citizens in the occupied 6 counties?

How will their quality of life be 'brought up'?

Losing the NHS, billions of euros in subvention and ten of thousands of cushy public sector jobs.

The turkeys up there won't be voting for Christmas and we won't be voting to take over the turkey farm.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have a read.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/32/joint_committee_on_the_implementation_of_the_good_friday_agreement/reports/2017/2017-08-02_brexit-and-the-future-of-ireland-uniting-ireland-and-its-people-in-peace-and-prosperity_en.pdf

Colour me not convinced

“The problem is that little information is available on the potential economic effects of a unification policy, and there are therefore little means to numerically gauge its effectiveness. This is further complicated by the data deficit in the North.”243

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Colour me not convinced

At least you have pointed to the nonsense of quoting the subvention to northern Ireland as the 'cost' of northern Ireland. It isn't.

Ignore all the rest of the document if you wish. It is you who need to educate yourself on the possibilities.

cgcsb

15-20 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

How will their quality of life be 'brought up'?

Losing the NHS, billions of euros in subvention and ten of thousands of cushy public sector jobs.

The turkeys up there won't be voting for Christmas and we won't be voting to take over the turkey farm.

In the ROI 40% of people have medical cards and 50% have private health insurance. The average wage in the ROI is DOUBLE what it is in NI, so who actually gives a crap about paying €60 the 2 times a year you might visit the GP? Your living standards would be improved by virtue of the fact that you've twice as much money.

Cushy public sectors are grand and all, but the thing is, most people would prefer to do meaningful work in the private sector, with opportunity to advance themselves and earn more money.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have a read.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/32/joint_committee_on_the_implementation_of_the_good_friday_agreement/reports/2017/2017-08-02_brexit-and-the-future-of-ireland-uniting-ireland-and-its-people-in-peace-and-prosperity_en.pdf

Shinnerbot nonsense with makey-uppey figures, wild speculation and nonsense doublespeak throughout - the phrase 'paper never refused ink' could not be more aptly applied..

Next.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

At least you have pointed to the nonsense of quoting the subvention to northern Ireland as the 'cost' of northern Ireland. It isn't.

Ignore all the rest of the document if you wish. It is you who need to educate yourself on the possibilities.

well that document does say this

Northern Ireland currently and historically runs a fiscal deficit that is financed by inter-governmental transfers from the UK. Unification would require that this deficit be financed and assumed by the Republic of Ireland.

So we would be paying for it.

I've done some more reading of that document and i cant see why anybody from northern ireland would be in favour of it. Its basic assumption is that the republic would take over the north and the north would start doing everything our way.

Harmonization of the tax systems across the Island, with the North adopting the tax rates and regulations of the south.

Adoption of the Euro in the North

However, unification would also eliminate the need for two parallel governmental structures in many domains and likely result in public spending in the North that diminishes over time.

On to the dole then for all those civil servants in the north.

ohnonotgmail

facehugger99 wrote: »

Shinnerbot nonsense with makey-uppey figures.

Next.

very makey-uppey. They even admit it

“The problem is that little information is available on the potential economic effects of a unification policy, and there are therefore little means to numerically gauge its effectiveness. This is further complicated by the data deficit in the North.”243

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Shinnerbot nonsense with makey-uppey figures.

Next.

Love it. It is gonna come as some shock to our resident partitionists that their own government have a great deal of work done on modeling various unification scenarios.

Enjoy living in willful ignorance.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Love it. It is gonna come as some shock to our resident partitionists that their own government have a great deal of work done on modeling various unification scenarios.

Enjoy living in willful ignorance.

Modelling that is based on little or no data as they admit themselves. Not sure i would be relying on their conclusions. I certainly would not be quoting them as gospel.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Modelling that is based on little or no data as they admit themselves. Not sure i would be relying on their conclusions. I certainly would not be quoting them as gospel.

But you guys are certain that it won't work...based on no info at all only your bias.

Keep digging that hole...you are hilarious.

ohnonotgmail

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But you guys are certain that it won't work...based on no info at all only your bias.

Keep digging that hole...you are hilarious.

well you are certain that it will work...based on no info at all only your bias.

Do you see how that works? If you want to convince people to change you need to make the case for it. You haven't.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Love it. It is gonna come as some shock to our resident partitionists that their own government have a great deal of work done on modeling various unification scenarios.

Enjoy living in willful ignorance.

Sure, if by 'modeling' you mean making up figures and if by 'great deal of work' you mean quoting that report, with the made up figures, in another report then you're quite correct.

Great work guys.

A sieve would hold more water.

cgcsb

15-20 years

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

On to the dole then for all those civil servants in the north.

They would have ample opportunity provided by investment that would flow as a result of low corp tax, membership of the eurozone and EU, and dirt cheap NI office rents(at least at the start).

markodaly

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you sound like a brexiteer talking about a No Deal.

LOL, I thought the same thing.

In fairness, though there is a serious parallel with the two arguments of a UI at any cost and Brexit at any cost.

Both require the drop of all rational thought, espouse nationalism, forget the economic arguments and appeal to a sense of duty and sentimentality.

Two cheeks of the same arse IMO.

markodaly

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Colour me not convinced

Francie posts links that he himself does not read.

cgcsb

15-20 years

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well you are certain that it will work

It will work because we will make it work. We've achieved more complicated things as a nation. From rural electrification to decarbonisation of the economy. Undoing partition would be a synch if there's a will.

facehugger99

20-30 years

facehugger99 wrote: »

Shinnerbot nonsense

So all-party research from the Oireachtas is "Shinnerbot nonsense"? You're excelling yourself on the WestBrit bot paranoia front today, facehugger99.

cgcsb

15-20 years

markodaly wrote: »

LOL, I thought the same thing.

In fairness, though there is a serious parallel with the two arguments of a UI at any cost and Brexit at any cost.

Both require the drop of all rational thought, espouse nationalism, forget the economic arguments and appeal to a sense of duty and sentimentality.

Two cheeks of the same arse IMO.

There is a parallel in the way that it's nationalistic rather than economic, but Brexit is based on greed, racism and classism.

ohnonotgmail

cgcsb wrote: »

It will work because we will make it work. We've achieved more complicated things as a nation. From rural electrification to decarbonisation of the economy. Undoing partition would be a synch if there's a will.

now we are back to talking like a brexiteer.

cgcsb

15-20 years

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

now we are back to talking like a brexiteer.

There are parallels between the two, elevating patriotism over short termist economics. However, that's where the similarity ends.

markodaly

cgcsb wrote: »

It will work because we will make it work. We've achieved more complicated things as a nation. From rural electrification to decarbonisation of the economy. Undoing partition would be a synch if there's a will.

Jaysus! Really? We cannot even implement BusConnects or a Metro line in South Dublin, you think undoing partition will be easy?

The benchmark here is Germany and even today, 25 years on, they still struggle with aspects of reunification. Irish governance is not really noted for its efficiency, robust transparency or good execution.

In my opinion, any unification of the Island will be a massive undertaking, the biggest thing the country has tried to do, by far.

Also, we have not de-carbonised the economy, in fact, we are well behind and one of the worst performers of the EU.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

So all-party research from the Oireachtas is "Shinnerbot nonsense"? You're excelling yourself on the WestBrit bot paranoia front today, facehugger99.

You realise that these partitionists don't even want to look at data. They are full of biased assumptions that are useful to no-one or no debate.

Worse than the most beligerent Unionist tbh. And very small in number.