Saoradh dissident republican march in Dublin

FrancieBrady

Berserker wrote: »

Well, we've reached the point of a reward being offered, so they've got some sort of hold people. Not sure if it's respect or fear but people are not willing to out these thugs for some reason. Haven't heard about too many arrests relating to the ATM thefts being conducted by the IRA of late also.

Are you not jumping the gun there a bit Berserker?

Tomas81

It's well known who pulled the trigger. He's named on walls in Derry, his mother was arrested while disposing of his clothes. He's up **** creek without a paddle. He is seen all the same day in the same clothes he was in when doing the shooting.

James Brown

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

De valera a Hitler fan?. Nice rewriting of history there.

Look it up. May have been playing both sides.

A new RTE documentary reveals how the Irish establishment gave a warm welcome to a rogue's gallery of fascists and Nazis after the war. KIM BIELENBERG reports
https://www.independent.ie/ca/opinion/analysis/the-shamrock-and-the-swastika-26443611.html

Deleted User wrote: »

nah man the question people will always ask you is do you support or attempt to justify in any way the IRA's terrorist campaign

thatd be the question people would ask id say

SF was the front for a terrorist org for decades

it sticks.

notwithstanding the cause and the great work done to get GFA achieved they should have disbanded with the IRA and if theyd wanted to stay in politics done so under the auspices of a new party with as clean a slate as they could. as it is the people involved still give off a fair air of disrespect for the legitimate authority of the state (and the uh constantly refreshing stream of identikit online scrappers underline this with their identikit positions on say roscommmon vigilantes)

thats the reality for the majority of people i know. it hasnt gone away you know.

And people like yourself would ever make a mention of the IRA? :rolleyes:

timthumbni wrote: »

Up to £10k reward apparently for catching the republican or republicans responsible for the murder of Lyra.

You reckon Micheal Martin might know?

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

Your 'historical abbreviation of history' is not accurate. Ireland was not invaded by Britain. As for doing better, the people of NI need to make a statement on that by not voting for the usual suspects in elections. That's the starting point for change. There are some really good politicians and parties in NI, politicians and parties who could make real progress but they just don't get a look in. If people want things to change, they need to change who they vote for.

Hmm. McMurrough invited them in with the promise of a reward of one minor kingdom. They invaded the rest - including N.I.

The rest of your post makes a lot of sense - but it's telling that your first reaction was to reject the fact that Ireland was invaded.

We need to be able to discuss history, as opposed to automatically correcting whatever the other perceived "side" says.

I suspect we could all learn a lot if we could do that.

RobMc59

Berserker wrote: »

Your 'historical abbreviation of history' is not accurate. Ireland was not invaded by Britain. As for doing better, the people of NI need to make a statement on that by not voting for the usual suspects in elections. That's the starting point for change. There are some really good politicians and parties in NI, politicians and parties who could make real progress but they just don't get a look in. If people want things to change, they need to change who they vote for.

According to the BBC Britain did invade Ireland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/middle_ages/ireland_invasion_01.shtml

Farawayhome

Creol1 wrote: »

Opposing loyalist brutality and republican brutality are not "opposite" or mutually exclusive positions. People like John Hume spent 30 years explaining this but it seems this still has to be spelt out to people.

Of course it's the opposite. The poster said Republican violence has lessened the support for a reunited Ireland, the opposite is supporting remaining in the union with the UK. Hasn't unionist violence and British state violence (for some reason you left them out?) lessened the support for that?

Tomas81

The republican position has not lessened in far as supports concerned, Look at the movement of Sinn Fein regarding electoral success north and south. There is a huge push on now for a Border Poll, I think within 5 6 years we will have one.

Farawayhome

Tomas81 wrote: »

The republican position has not lessened in far as supports concerned, Look at the movement of Sinn Fein regarding electoral success north and south. There is a huge push on now for a Border Poll, I think within 5 6 years we will have one.

What needs to be pointed out is that the want for a United Ireland isn't just a Sinn Féin thing. It's something for all Irish people. Supporters of all parties or none of them.

Junkyard Tom

Berserker wrote: »

the people of NI need to make a statement on that by not voting for the usual suspects in elections.

The DUP and UUP who are holding everything up?

Tomas81

Tomas81 wrote: »

The republican position has not lessened in far as supports concerned, Look at the movement of Sinn Fein regarding electoral success north and south. There is a huge push on now for a Border Poll, I think within 5 6 years we will have one.

It hasn't. But there is no question but that the Republican position has rejected violence.

This is what some Unionist posters here don't seem to believe or accept. Despite the fact that the evidence overwhelmingly suggests otherwise.

Marches by fools, who do not represent the majority view, nor have their support, do the prospect of a border poll no favours.

We have, as a people, overwhelmingly chosen peace as the way forward. All the paramilitary groups, from any source, need to realise that, and move on.

As do the politicians.

That sermon at Lyra McKees funeral was a clarion call.

Will politicians pay heed - and will their supporters encourage them to do so?

That's what those of us who want peace need to think about going forward.

(I'm not aiming all this at you, Tomas81. I'm just despairing that we're back to the same old tit for tat posting that we've been at for years!)

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

We have, as a people, overwhelmingly chosen peace as the way forward.

This suggests that 'as a people' we at one time chose violence or war/conflict. I don't think that ever happened and it is never how it works in the real world.

Tomas81

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It hasn't. But there is no question but that the Republican position has rejected violence.

This is what some Unionist posters here don't seem to believe or accept. Despite the fact that the evidence overwhelmingly suggests otherwise.

Marches by fools, who do not represent the majority view, nor have their support, do the prospect of a border poll no favours.

We have, as a people, overwhelmingly chosen peace as the way forward. All the paramilitary groups, from any source, need to realise that, and move on.

As do the politicians.

That sermon at Lyra McKees funeral was a clarion call.

Will politicians pay heed - and will their supporters encourage them to do so?

That's what those of us who want peace need to think about going forward.

(I'm not aiming all this at you, Tomas81. I'm just despairing that we're back to the same old tit for tat posting that we've been at for years!)

We have chosen peace at this point In time membership of the IRA were apparently told that as this point in time the conditions didn't support armed struggle that I'd correct. Should the conditions change I believe the army council along with the brigade staff would reform to address the issue. Nobody wants war, unless your an idiot who didn't see the pain.

feargale

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This suggests that 'as a people' we at one time chose violence or war/conflict. I don't think that ever happened and it is never how it works in the real world.

There is lots of evil in the real world. It doesn't follow that we have to accept it, or in the case of some idiots embrace it.

FrancieBrady

feargale wrote: »

There is lots of evil in the real world. It doesn't follow that we have to accept it, or in the case of some idiots embrace it.

Exactly. What that has to do with the point I was making, I am not sure about though.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This suggests that 'as a people' we at one time chose violence or war/conflict. I don't think that ever happened and it is never how it works in the real world.

That's actually not what I was suggesting at all. I don't believe the vast majority of people, on either side, ever "chose" violence.

Maybe more a case that things escalated to a point where each group feared/distrusted the other to the extent that they banded together, allowing the "them" and "us" mentality that ended up as hate, and, in some cases, violence, or acceptance/defence of violence.

Tomas81

Tomas81 wrote: »

We have chosen peace at this point In time membership of the IRA were apparently told that as this point in time the conditions didn't support armed struggle that I'd correct. Should the conditions change I believe the army council along with the brigade staff would reform to address the issue. Nobody wants war, unless your an idiot who didn't see the pain.

I don't doubt it. I equally don't doubt that, just as the "troubles" escalated, it is possible to go back to those times, all too easily.


I don't believe that anyone ever "wanted" war. Certainly not those who ended up being the victims.


And it's exactly because I would hate to see a single other victim, that I'm trying to get people to speak to each other, and to listen to each other.


I don't know - maybe it's too soon, maybe the scars are too deep or fresh?


And maybe, just maybe - some people actually are stupid enough to think they want a war because they either haven't seen one, or haven't personally suffered the effects, or are pursuing God knows what other agenda?


Can I also take this opportunity to offer sincere condolences on the loss of your father and brother. I genuinely hate to think what you must have gone through - and I really don't want to see anyone else go through it.

Tomas81

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't doubt it. I equally don't doubt that, just as the "troubles" escalated, it is possible to go back to those times, all too easily.


I don't believe that anyone ever "wanted" war. Certainly not those who ended up being the victims.


And it's exactly because I would hate to see a single other victim, that I'm trying to get people to speak to each other, and to listen to each other.


I don't know - maybe it's too soon, maybe the scars are too deep or fresh?


And maybe, just maybe - some people actually are stupid enough to think they want a war because they either haven't seen one, or haven't personally suffered the effects, or are pursuing God knows what other agenda?


Can I also take this opportunity to offer sincere condolences on the loss of your father and brother. I genuinely hate to think what you must have gone through - and I really don't want to see anyone else go through it.

I think the years of mistrust on both sides will have a resounding affect on the new generation and maybe another generation.

If you observe the power sharing in Storming. Arlene hates to concede anything to republicans due to her own issues with what happened her father, as there is several similar situations regarding loyalist violence bestowed upon Sinn Fein members and their families. There is no winners here only losers, but sometimes the dept of a gulf cannot be bridged. I hope I am wrong for future generations sake. Lord knows we've seen enough suffering and pain to last us a life time.

And regarding your condolences, thank you very much.

Tomas81

Tomas81 wrote: »

I think the years of mistrust on both sides will have a resounding affect on the new generation and maybe another generation.

If you observe the power sharing in Storming. Arlene hates to concede anything to republicans due to her own issues with what happened her father, as there is several similar situations regarding loyalist violence bestowed upon Sinn Fein members and their families. There is no winners here only losers, but sometimes the dept of a gulf cannot be bridged. I hope I am wrong for future generations sake. Lord knows we've seen enough suffering and pain to last us a life time.

And regarding your condolences, thank you very much.

Agreed. I think it's going to take more time.


Let's just hope the peace process holds, and future generations don't have to go through the pain and loss that you and many others suffered.

JupiterKid

The important thing is that we don't go picking over the minutiae of the past in the North and find slights/grievances, because TBH there are many to be found.

If Lyra's killing serves any purpose it will hopefully be to regalvanise the Peace Process, alienate and isolate the dissidents and ensure that we do not return to the dark days of the Troubles.

JupiterKid

JupiterKid wrote: »

The important thing is that we don't gopicking over the minutiae of the past in the North and find slights/grievances, because TBH there are many to be found.

If Lyra's killing serves any purpose it will hopefully be to regalvanise the Peace Process, alienate and isolate the dissidents and ensure that we do not return to the dark days of the Troubles.

I don't know about that.
I think part of the healing process is a recognition that you have been wronged. The flip side, of course, is that there will always be people who can only hear how their "side" has been wronged.

I think it's important that everyone knows the truth. Finding the balance between telling the truth, and inflaming the situation will be a tough balancing act, though.

Tomas81

JupiterKid wrote: »

The important thing is that we don't gopicking over the minutiae of the past in the North and find slights/grievances, because TBH there are many to be found.

If Lyra's killing serves any purpose it will hopefully be to regalvanise the Peace Process, alienate and isolate the dissidents and ensure that we do not return to the dark days of the Troubles.

We need a truth commission and it needs to have an Immunity clause.

Tomas81

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't know about that.
I think part of the healing process is a recognition that you have been wronged. The flip side, of course, is that there will always be people who can only hear how their "side" has been wronged.

I think it's important that everyone knows the truth. Finding the balance between telling the truth, and inflaming the situation will be a tough balancing act, though.

Definitely, victims need answers but they also need to know they cannot seek prosecution or it will all go under ground and we will never be able to move past the darkness

Tomas81

Tomas81 wrote: »

Definitely, victims need answers but they also need to know they cannot seek prosecution or it will all go under ground and we will never be able to move past the darkness

That sounds fair. I've always said that what the victims want and need has to be the priority.

I hope you all get the answers you deserve, and that it helps the healing process a little.
I'm not going to be stupid/insensitive enough to think that answers will solve everything, but I hope it helps. For everyone.

Billy86

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not sure if mentioned but FB and Twitter have suspended there accounts.

Weird that nobody has been talking about this, on After Hours of all places.

Saoradh are scum, but why no outcry over them being banned from social media?

downcow

bilston wrote: »

I had this conversation with a Dublin taxi driver recently. He said he took a fare all the way up to Belfast and got lost and ended up in a Loyalist estate and was very nervous.

The reality is people with southern accents would be absolutely fine in Loyalist areas and people from Loyalist areas will be absolutely fine in Republican areas.

I'm sure there are places where the PSNI still have to tread carefully. The Creggan being a prime example.

I imagine Northern Ireland is a much safer place to be than London

Exactly well said

downcow

downcow wrote: »

Exactly well said

Oh, Lord! Someone quotes a taxi driver, who drove onto one
Loyalist estate, and this supposedly is proof that every Southern reg. car will have the same experience on every loyalist estate?

I've experienced downright intimidation on the street, I've been tailed in a car when there was a detour on my normal route. I've gotten caught in the middle of a riot in marching season - and I'm only an occasional visitor.

The situation in the North is fluid. Tensions are higher in the marching season, for example.
Equally, there are plenty of Unionists who wouldn't pay any attention to a southern reg. car.

Not all Unionists are the same. Not all Nationalists are the same. Not all areas are the same. Hell, not every day is the same.

But keep pretending. Some of us know better, though.

Ash.J.Williams

It's one of those rare situations that the past needs to be forgotten

gaelwave

Billy86 wrote: »

Weird that nobody has been talking about this, on After Hours of all places.

Saoradh are scum, but why no outcry over them being banned from social media?

Because they are far left scumbags and terrorist apologists

timthumbni

New footage of the republican that shot the wee girl on bbc site.

Also talks over trying to resume the NI assembly due to start soon. I’m a realist but hopefully optimistic that we can progress a wee bit. Wouldn’t be putting the house on it at the bookies though.

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

Also talks over trying to resume the NI assembly due to start soon. I’m a realist but hopefully optimistic that we can progress a wee bit. Wouldn’t be putting the house on it at the bookies though.

It's a disgrace that the two governments haven't applied this pressure before now.

They could have convened these talks at any time.