2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

Bass Reeves

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

If Mayo were to hammer Meath then they could qualify with a good victory over Donegal, even if they were to beat Kerry, all long shots i know but still.....

They are -10 point at present and Kerry and Donegal are +10 and+9 respectively. Id Donegal beat Kerry by 3 points it puts it +12 and +7. If Kerry beat meath by 3 they go to +10. Mayo would need to beat Meath by 15 points to get to +5 and beat Donegal by 6 points. IF Donegal win on Sunday unless Meath beat Kerry Mayo are very unlikly to get out of the group.

Sonny678

He is one of the best young defenders in the country. He really is quality. Can become of the all time greats for Donegal.

His tussle v Cillian Sullivan on Sunday was excellent . Both played really well , Sullivan is a quality player also and when he plays, Meath plays well. A touch a class about him. Hes got pace , skill and hes bulked up in last year or two. We need a big game from him on Sunday.

Just a sidenote Cillian Sullivan was part of a Meath minor team which beat Mayo in an All Ireland semi final. That Meath team was managed by Andy McEntee. Mayo were strong favourites and it was a strong Mayo team , I think players from that Mayo minor team went onto win a under 21 All Ireland.
I think 4 of the Mayo players who played on that minor team will play on Sunday or on the panel. Meath players who were on that minor team that beat Mayo but will be playing on Sunday are Shane Gallagher, Seamus lavin , Shane McEntee, Padraig Harnan, James McEntee, Cillian Sullivan while on the bench on Sunday Barry Dardis Ruari O Coilean and Adam Flanagan also played that day. I think of the starting 15 for Meath that day 13 played senior for Meath in the future. They were beaten by Dublin in the All Ireland final , but that Dublin team waa the most Atletic and powerful minor team I had ever seen. That Meath team was small in stature and allot those players took along time to get used to physicality of senior football. Bur now after 5 or 6 years strenght and conditioning now at 24 or 25 those players are adapting to senior inter county. That Meath minor team also beat a highly fancied Tyrone team in the quarter final and players from that Tyrone team went onto win an under 21 All Ireland afterwards. To show how good that Meath minor team was, outside Dublin its the only minor team from leinster to reach an All Ireland minor final in the last 16 years.

Pogue eile

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Oh im under no illusions and you make fair points, still, id love the results to go our way Sunday to set up a huge winner take all night in Castlebar, Donegal absolutely would be favourites but it would be a kind of a last stand for our old guard and who knows....

Knockout game against Mayo in Castlebar, don't think anyone (other that Dublin) would 'absolutely' be favourites.

Jaden

Pogue eile wrote: »

Knockout game against Mayo in Castlebar, don't think anyone (other that Dublin) would 'absolutely' be favourites.

You're probably not wrong, but McHale is a tight pitch, that would suit Donegal more than Mayo, who's recent record there is far from stellar.

liatroimabu

Pogue eile wrote: »

Knockout game against Mayo in Castlebar, don't think anyone (other that Dublin) would 'absolutely' be favourites.

MacHale Park is hardly a fortress, lost to Roscommon this year, scraped by Armagh with the help of a faulty watch, lost to Galway last year and then also lost all of their home league games last year and one this year.

Not exactly a record that any other big team is going to fear so no reason why Donegal won't be favourites unless they get demolished even worse by Kerry than Mayo did.

harpsman

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am looking forward to the weekends football. I have the tickets for the four games. I was told that the attendance looks like it will be bigger on the Sunday than the Saturday (by the way)
I am hoping to see three tight games at least, should be tension in them anyway.
It will also be interesting to see how the Rossies approach the Dublin game, all out attack man to man or batten down the hatches?
It should be a good exercise for Dublin no matter what happens, because the Rossies have some lively players who give it a lash. At times it is like watching the West of Ireland's answer to Brazil!

My only problem is practicing the Donegal accent for the Kerry game....aye...
It will not sound right to hear a Dub say come on Donegal!
Also, I can't be heard cheering on Meath v Mayo.
That is just not the done thing and outside the societal norms as far I am concerned
I hope they knock lumps out of each other though!

I remember being at a Harps match once and we were giving stick to a Dub on the other team. He turns around and shouts “Wise up, hi” in a broad donegal accent. Made us laugh. So maybe try putting “hi” at the end of every sentence

harpsman

liatroimabu wrote: »

Yes but when have they genuinely been outclassed to the extent they were on Sunday? They also weren't really at the races in the Roscommon game but that was more a case of them shooting themselves in the foot and a good roscommon team taking advantage.

They could beat Meath but even with the Donegal game being in Castlebar I can't see Mayo getting near them unless Donegal win this weekend meaning the Mayo game means nothing more than 1st or 2nd place to them that they're already through.

No, not to the extent of last Sunday but then they never played Kerry before semifinals.

EB Gallagher out for season apparently. That will even things up a bit. He’s a big part of Donegal’s attacking strategy

Bonniedog

Bonniedog wrote: »

Connolly just happens to be a sort of totem for dislike of Dublin.

Same as Donaghy was, Ricey, Cillian O'Connor, Tommy Walsh, John Leahy. Roy Keane, tom Brady A Rod in other sports. Every team has one! They become like a fly catcher for a natural dislike of the "enemy." Old as humans.


Curiously, Philly used to be the hate figure, but his PR - not for one moment questioning his genuiness! - is far better than DC's.

Graham bleedin' Geraghty :mad: *shakes fist*

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I don’t necessarily think Kerry will be trying to avoid Dublin you have to face them some time anyway if you want to win the All Ireland.

I reckon most teams would have a better chance of upsetting the Dubs in a SF rather than a final, what with all the added pressure that it entails. Especially seeing as most of the panel have been in multiple finals already.

harpsman

harpsman wrote: »

I remember being at a Harps match once and we were giving stick to a Dub on the other team. He turns around and shouts “Wise up, hi” in a broad donegal accent. Made us laugh. So maybe try putting “hi” at the end of every sentence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC7s17K2uMY

Pogue eile

liatroimabu wrote: »

MacHale Park is hardly a fortress, lost to Roscommon this year, scraped by Armagh with the help of a faulty watch, lost to Galway last year and then also lost all of their home league games last year and one this year.

Not exactly a record that any other big team is going to fear so no reason why Donegal won't be favourites unless they get demolished even worse by Kerry than Mayo did.

Mayo in a knockout game v Mayo in every other single game - absolutely no comparison.

Armagh are decent, Mayo will have a far stronger team come the Donegal game and to be honest Donegal aren't all they are being made up to be either and thats not a slight against them, just people are so desperate for someone to beat Dublin, anyone that wins a game anyway impressively are built up as the heirs to the throne.

liatroimabu

Pogue eile wrote: »

Mayo in a knockout game v Mayo in every other single game - absolutely no comparison.

Armagh are decent, Mayo will have a far stronger team come the Donegal game and to be honest Donegal aren't all they are being made up to be either and thats not a slight against them, just people are so desperate for someone to beat Dublin, anyone that wins a game anyway impressively are built up as the heirs to the throne.

Well Kildare last year was a knockout game? Down and Armagh both knockout games that they got through by the skin of their teeth, whatever about Armagh being a good side you can't say Down are any great shakes, not a team that should be challenging all-ireland contenders anyway.

And to be fair, last Sunday was pretty much a knockout game given that they knew if they lost it their fate would be pretty much out of their hands which it is at least for the moment.

Fair point on Donegal though and barring the Tyrone game (and Tyrone have changed a lot since then) this weekend is the first of the 4/5 supposed contenders they play this year.

Still though, I think the ship has sailed on this generation of Mayo players, 2/3 years of them rebuilding with young lads coming through and they should be back up there though.

Pogue eile

Time will tell with Mayo but they have been written off so many times and they keep getting back up off the canvas, I just dont think its a forgone conclusion that there isn't another kick in the old dog yet.

Coillte_Bhoy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

They are -10 point at present and Kerry and Donegal are +10 and+9 respectively. Id Donegal beat Kerry by 3 points it puts it +12 and +7. If Kerry beat meath by 3 they go to +10. Mayo would need to beat Meath by 15 points to get to +5 and beat Donegal by 6 points. IF Donegal win on Sunday unless Meath beat Kerry Mayo are very unlikly to get out of the group.

Oh i agree its very unlikely if Donegal win but not impossible. Martin Breheny in yesterdays Indo stated

In Group 1, the losers of Mayo v Meath next Sunday will be out of contention for a semi-final place, leaving them with no direct interest in their final game

. Thats simply untrue.

On a largely pedantic note, re your example above, Mayo would only have to beat Donegal by 4 points :pac: as every point in the margin of victory is really worth 2 as its negative on Donegal's difference.

charlie14

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Oh im under no illusions and you make fair points, still, id love the results to go our way Sunday to set up a huge winner take all night in Castlebar, Donegal absolutely would be favourites but it would be a kind of a last stand for our old guard and who knows....

With Mayo at home and by then some of their injuries cleared up and Donegal without Eoghan Ban Gallagher, I would not see Donegal being favourites. Not unless they beat Kerry, (without Gallagher a big ask imo),and have is a good points difference going into that game.

Bonniedog

Best scenario for Mayo in my view is obviously to beat Meath and for Donegal to beat Kerry, which I shall be betting on.

In that event Donegal will be in same boat as Dublin and Tyrone most like, and looking ahead to a semi final with almost nothing resting on their last game other than to rest players, try out new lads and avoid injuries.

Pogue eile

Bonniedog wrote: »

Best scenario for Mayo in my view is obviously to beat Meath and for Donegal to beat Kerry, which I shall be betting on.

In that event Donegal will be in same boat as Dublin and Tyrone most like, and looking ahead to a semi final with almost nothing resting on their last game other than to rest players, try out new lads and avoid injuries.

Huh? Donegal beat Kerry they are on 4pts, kerry beath Meath they are on 4 pts and Mayo win twice they are on 4pts. Far from a nothing game in Castlebar then. If Donegal beat Meath by 9, then surely Mayo can or at least could do the same?

People getting far too hung up on the score difference after one game and remember in that last game if Mayo won by for example 5 points, thats a 10 point swing - Donegal would have to be some distance ahead to treat it as a nothing game or a warm up for a semi.

harpsman

Bonniedog wrote: »

Best scenario for Mayo in my view is obviously to beat Meath and for Donegal to beat Kerry, which I shall be betting on.

In that event Donegal will be in same boat as Dublin and Tyrone most like, and looking ahead to a semi final with almost nothing resting on their last game other than to rest players, try out new lads and avoid injuries.

I like your confidence in Donegal but even with Eoghan Ban I wouldn’t have bet on them against Kerry. I think a situation where a Mayo win against Donegal guaranteed getting thru would be better for them than hoping to overturn a big score difference, even if that is obviously possible

jimmytwotimes 2013

The notion that Mayo threw in towel v. Kerry seems a bit of a stretch. With 2 games to make up the 20 point swing it'd seem a daft approach.

The group phase is too short to be throwing an early game, grand if you're playing a dead rubber at end of the group phase but otherwise fairly risky.

Bonniedog

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

The notion that Mayo threw in towel v. Kerry seems a bit of a stretch. With 2 games to make up the 20 point swing it'd seem a daft approach.

The group phase is too short to be throwing an early game, grand if you're playing a dead rubber at end of the group phase but otherwise fairly risky.

I didn't mean they threw the game, but more that they kept maybe something in the tank when it had slipped beyond them, which it seems to have done before half time.

And yeah, the scoring thing does undermine my argument!


As for Donegal/Kerry, spotted it as a good bet when it was priced up a couple of weeks back at evens. Donegal out to 6/4 now, so shall wet my beak again.

liatroimabu

Bonniedog wrote: »

I didn't mean they threw the game, but more that they kept maybe something in the tank when it had slipped beyond them, which it seems to have done before half time.

And yeah, the scoring thing does undermine my argument!


As for Donegal/Kerry, spotted it as a good bet when it was priced up a couple of weeks back at evens. Donegal out to 6/4 now, so shall wet my beak again.

Honestly lad I know you want to support your county and all that but if you honestly think the main reason Kerry gave Mayo such a drubbing is because they held back to conserve energy or whatever then you're bordering on delusional.

If Mayo hadn't already lost to Roscommon and scraped their way through the qualifiers I might see where you're coming from but really the fact is Mayo aren't near the level Kerry are at, how good that level actually is I guess we'll get an idea on Sunday against Donegal but probably won't really know until semi final time.

But yeah, good on you believing in your county and I'd rather see ye get on as connachts representatives than the rossies but dont think either of ye will.

seligehgit

liatroimabu wrote: »

Honestly lad I know you want to support your county and all that but if you honestly think the main reason Kerry gave Mayo such a drubbing is because they held back to conserve energy or whatever then you're bordering on delusional.

If Mayo hadn't already lost to Roscommon and scraped their way through the qualifiers I might see where you're coming from but really the fact is Mayo aren't near the level Kerry are at, how good that level actually is I guess we'll get an idea on Sunday against Donegal but probably won't really know until semi final time.

But yeah, good on you believing in your county and I'd rather see ye get on as connachts representatives than the rossies but dont think either of ye will.

Since when has Bonniedog become a Mayo man?:)

liatroimabu

seligehgit wrote: »

Since when has Bonniedog become a Mayo man?:)

Fair enough new to the forums so didn't know just thought the level of faith in Mayo would only come from someone within the county!

manofwisdom

liatroimabu wrote: »

Honestly lad I know you want to support your county and all that but if you honestly think the main reason Kerry gave Mayo such a drubbing is because they held back to conserve energy or whatever then you're bordering on delusional.

If Mayo hadn't already lost to Roscommon and scraped their way through the qualifiers I might see where you're coming from but really the fact is Mayo aren't near the level Kerry are at, how good that level actually is I guess we'll get an idea on Sunday against Donegal but probably won't really know until semi final time.

But yeah, good on you believing in your county and I'd rather see ye get on as connachts representatives than the rossies but dont think either of ye will.

For a Leitrim man or woman you seem to have a lot of interest in Mayo.



Any thoughts on the year Leitrim just had. Can they hold their own in Div 3 in 2020 and will Terry Hyland be able to build on the progress already made with a young panel?

seligehgit

liatroimabu wrote: »

Fair enough new to the forums so didn't know just thought the level of faith in Mayo would only come from someone within the county!

Not sure it's a level of faith.

Like in most cases it's one merely looking in a speculative fashion for explanations as to why a team so badly unperformed.

You may well be right that it's nothing more than the current level of this Mayo team.

Your argument that people are clutching at straws based on a credit that is near exhausted into relation to performance levels up to 2017.

However the team have been hammered with injuries,the catastrophic consequences of their inability to come through the front door (a crazy schedule of games).

The team is an aging one in the midst of the very early stages of a transition/reconstruction.

TBH I haven't seen too many in the media nor within the county seriously considering Mayo as All Ireland contenders as you seem to imply.

PressRun

seligehgit wrote: »

Not sure it's a level of faith.

Like in most cases it's one merely looking in a speculative fashion for explanations as to why a team so badly unperformed.

You may well be right that it's nothing more than the current level of this Mayo team.

Your argument that people are clutching at straws based on a credit that is near exhausted into relation to performance levels up to 2017.

However the team have been hammered with injuries,the catastrophic consequences of their inability to come through the front door (a crazy schedule of games).

The team is an aging one in the midst of the very early stages of a transition/reconstruction.

TBH I haven't seen too many in the media nor within the county seriously considering Mayo as All Ireland contenders as you seem to imply.

I haven't spoken to anyone this week who genuinely believes we'll make it to a semi-final. Still, sure what's the point in any of it if you can't speculate and discuss the various possibilities, no matter how wildly unlikely they are.

liatroimabu

manofwisdom wrote: »

For a Leitrim man or woman you seem to have a lot of interest in Mayo.



Any thoughts on the year Leitrim just had. Can they hold their own in Div 3 in 2020 and will Terry Hyland be able to build on the progress already made with a young panel?

Have interest in all gaelic football just happens to be mayo in the current conversation!

Great year for Leitrim, best in a long while, championship was a bit dissapointing but still got one win anyway and the league was a huge success. Division 3 will be a tough ask to stay up, but depending on how the draw as regards home and away goes for us I wouldn't say we are too far off getting a result against Longford, Offaly, Louth and Tipp (if Tipp continue on their downward trend). But this is slightly hopeful thinking and would need good luck on the injury front. Injuries could be our massive achilles heel, one or two players we have like O'Rourke and if they are out for an extended period, we don't really have an answer.

liatroimabu

seligehgit wrote: »

Not sure it's a level of faith.

Like in most cases it's one merely looking in a speculative fashion for explanations as to why a team so badly unperformed.

You may well be right that it's nothing more than the current level of this Mayo team.

Your argument that people are clutching at straws based on a credit that is near exhausted into relation to performance levels up to 2017.

However the team have been hammered with injuries,the catastrophic consequences of their inability to come through the front door (a crazy schedule of games).

The team is an aging one in the midst of the very early stages of a transition/reconstruction.

TBH I haven't seen too many in the media nor within the county seriously considering Mayo as All Ireland contenders as you seem to imply.

Its mainly RTE that have had the AI contender tag , see this ranking of them above Roscommon, Galway and Tyrone at a time when Mayo were out of Connacht while Roscommon had beaten them and Galway in the final : https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0624/1057248-halfway-there-ranking-last-16-sfc-counties-standing/

Also when Brolly (as much as i dislike some of his points) said they were finished he is instantly met with disregard from Tomas O Se and others close to the sunday game.

Bass Reeves

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Oh i agree its very unlikely if Donegal win but not impossible. Martin Breheny in yesterdays Indo stated . Thats simply untrue.

On a largely pedantic note, re your example above, Mayo would only have to beat Donegal by 4 points :pac: as every point in the margin of victory is really worth 2 as its negative on Donegal's difference.

Yes but you would need Mayo to beat Meath by 15 points in that senario.

Coillte_Bhoy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Yes but you would need Mayo to beat Meath by 15 points in that senario.

Well yes, im gingon the example you posted, but just pointing out that in the event we need a good win against Donegal, every point is actually worth two in terms of scoring difference between the the two teams

eagle eye

I thought that Mayo looked fatigued against Kerry. That was their fourth game in four weeks. They just didn't seem to have the legs.