Random Fitness Questions

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

Some of the challenges of having minimal or no equipment at home can be interesting. I think that's part of what Mellor is saying, in fairness.

I've always been interested in programming and if someone is limited to bodyweight and - for example - one or two relatively light dumbbells, you have to really think about what is the optimum way to train and still cause adaptation to occur. Might involve techniques like rest / pause sets... Pre-exhaustion techniques... Exaggerating the tempo... And so on.

I think a bareness of equipment does also lend itself to exploring calisthenics / bodyweight training and progressions there. There's a ton of information out there about building towards things like one armed push ups and pistol squats that could probably occupy a beginner for a long time.

There are people who choose to train this way all the time!

Not the best for getting big and jacked, but in fairness still rewarding and potentially very stimulating.

Ross Enamait, Pavel Tsatsouline, and some of the kitsch but entertaining Dragon Door publications on 'Convict Conditioning' come to mind.

I've said it before, but I think the one piece of equipment that is definitely the bedrock is a door-frame pull-up bar, or some other way of performing a decent pulling movement. There are enough bodyweight-only pushing and lower body movements that don't require any equipment, but impossible to train a pull without equipment unless you try something like an isometric pull on a doorway, which doesn't work very well I would think.

Partly why I started to find it harder towards the end was the load, particularly with squat and hip hinge movements. I did mostly single-leg work to get the best bang for my buck with a 25kg sandbag and used pauses and tempo work. And all of the lunges. But I did find myself thinking "this is a bar with 2.5kg plates on it". I headed into lockdown ready to play around with different movements as it came towards the end of peaking for a comp at the end of March but then there comes a point you just want to get under the bar. But that's just because I've spend a fair while training to improve the SBD.

Push up handles were a great addition though. If only for increasing ROM. Tempo, long pauses....bench held up well.

I haven't actually used the pull up bar in the house since I bought it. It left marks on the wall when I was renting and frankly they annoyed me. I don't want to find myself annoyed into paining the wall anytime soon But I found an Argos bar I got maybe 10 years go and used it with a heavy band for doing RDLs and rows.

But I think part of it, for me anyway, was that you can't do anything like you would normally do and the novelty of playing around wears off after a while. If you do a lot of bodyweight stuff then it's something you're into and it makes no odds. It's just not my thing though. Well, I don't mind it and it has its uses but not to be the totality of what I do.

Black Sheep

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Partly why I started to find it harder towards the end was the load, particularly with squat and hip hinge movements. I did mostly single-leg work to get the best bang for my buck with a 25kg sandbag and used pauses and tempo work. And all of the lunges. But I did find myself thinking "this is a bar with 2.5kg plates on it". I headed into lockdown ready to play around with different movements as it came towards the end of peaking for a comp at the end of March but then there comes a point you just want to get under the bar. But that's just because I've spend a fair while training to improve the SBD.

Push up handles were a great addition though. If only for increasing ROM. Tempo, long pauses....bench held up well.

I haven't actually used the pull up bar in the house since I bought it. It left marks on the wall when I was renting and frankly they annoyed me. I don't want to find myself annoyed into paining the wall anytime soon

But I think part of it, for me anyway, was that you can't do anything like you would normally do and the novelty of playing around wears off after a while. If you do a lot of bodyweight stuff then it's something you're into and it makes no odds. It's just not my thing though. Well, I don't mind it and it has its uses but not to be the totality of what I do.

Yeah, I don't disagree... There is a reason I got myself a bar, plates and rack earlier in the year after about two weeks of doing the minimalist training thing. But I was trying to put a positive spin on things for others

I get that it won't be for everyone, but if it is all someone can do then still worth noting that minimal equipment training can be more than just quite basic circuits, which absolutely does get boring very quickly. There's a better chance to keeping things interesting if you try to spritz it up with a few different techniques to increase difficulty, and maybe some skill progression from one movement to another one that's a goal (One handed push up or whatever).

Gymnastics rings would be another option that CrossFit has popularised a bit more. A lot of material out there about beginners stuff using rings that is another area that someone could do if they had a place to hang rings.

The lower body is a bit challenging alright though. The most difficult 'at home' lower body movement I can think of is probably pistols with added weight. And I can't think of too many other options (Skater squats? Bulgarian split squats with whatever is to hand? And still easier variations than pistols).

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

The lower body is a bit challenging alright though. The most difficult 'at home' lower body movement I can think of is probably pistols with added weight. And I can't think of too many other options (Skater squats? Bulgarian split squats with whatever is to hand? And still easier variations than pistols).

I used to switch between Bulgarian split squats and lunges. Jesus I had some awful DOMS from those early sessions of lunges. Platz squats (before Johnny Candy-toe made them cool again) but with heels even closer together - I did them way less than I should have.

Just to your overall point about the positives. the one thing I always bore in mind is that every time I did a session at home it made the road back to where I wanted to be a little shorter. That helped in the days I just wasn't feeling enthused at all.

Mellor

Black Sheep wrote: »

Some of the challenges of having minimal or no equipment at home can be interesting. I think that's part of what Mellor is saying, in fairness.

I've always been interested in programming and if someone is limited to bodyweight and - for example - one or two relatively light dumbbells, you have to really think about what is the optimum way to train and still cause adaptation to occur. Might involve techniques like rest / pause sets... Pre-exhaustion techniques... Exaggerating the tempo... And so on

Exactly. Sitting down and programming around the inconvenience takes a little effort. But the benefit is massive imo.

As much as I think the powerlifting moves are the foundation of a strength program. I think its always good to test yourself in other ways. People get so efficient at squatting just enough with a barbel, strong over that range and getting all muscles firing. Massive squat but unable to do a proper single leg work doesn't seam ideal to me.

Black Sheep wrote: »

The lower body is a bit challenging alright though. The most difficult 'at home' lower body movement I can think of is probably pistols with added weight. And I can't think of too many other options (Skater squats? Bulgarian split squats with whatever is to hand? And still easier variations than pistols).

Bulgarians, split squats etc are good options. But the second leg is still providing some drive. Pistols are a level above.

I do deep step ups rather than pistols. Same load and ROM as a pistol is you go deep. But more stable and eliminates the flexibility/flexion requirements of the resting leg.
I find the resting

new2tri19

new2tri19 wrote: »

Just to update this for anyone else that may be interested. I am still clueless when it comes to the gym but from advice here and reading it seems I wasn't eating near enough. I got on top of my eating which was hard at the start but now its just a habit , I used to skip breakfast run and then have a light lunch more cardio, I was just burning myself out and living on carbs.
I had a good look at my diet and added tuna bagels , chicken wraps and lots of fruit nuts etc and never skipping meals.
I am feeling much healthier overall I am follownig the 5/3/1 program for beginners 3 days a week and doing the 100 reps of push pull or abs afterwards.

I seem to gain muscle really easy I've had a fair few comments already and I am only at it less than 2 months. I am now 76kg from 67kg and will have to buy some new clothes if this keeps up! I am still trying to balance the training running is hard after squatting the day before its also harder at 76kg than 67kg interestingly the shorter interval runs I feel stronger on but anything long and my legs don't feel like I have that same pop off the ground. Cardio is cut right back now to about 1 hour a day .
Anyway thanks for advice all .

I stood on the scales tonight in shock to see i am now at 82kg it was not long after dinner and a workout but still its a long way from my original weight of 67kg. I don't look fat so i'm hoping it's all muscle (doubtful). I'm conciously trying to have some protein with each of my meals and adding a carton of protein milk the 27grammes ones once a day if i feel like i haven't eaten enough.

Just wondering i'm increasing weights workout to workout at the moment as a newbie lifter with no idea of 1 rep max i started very light but does there come a time where you don't try lift heavier and you do same weight everytime you train or do you just try lift heavier ? Like when do you stop adding weights thanks?

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

I stood on the scales tonight in shock to see i am now at 82kg it was not long after dinner and a workout but still its a long way from my original weight of 67kg. I don't look fat so i'm hoping it's all muscle (doubtful). I'm conciously trying to have some protein with each of my meals and adding a carton of protein milk the 27grammes ones once a day if i feel like i haven't eaten enough.

Just wondering i'm increasing weights workout to workout at the moment as a newbie lifter with no idea of 1 rep max i started very light but does there come a time where you don't try lift heavier and you do same weight everytime you train or do you just try lift heavier ? Like when do you stop adding weights thanks?

What does your workout look like?

iHungry

What's the best style of weight bench to buy for a beginner? I'll be using dumbbells. Cheers

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What does your workout look like?

I'm following a plan called GZCLP.
Im doing the 3 day version .

Each day there's a tier 1 lift 5*3 reps done at 80% 5 rep max I think . And a tier 2 exercise 3 sets of 10 which is 50% of 5 rep max I think. I'd no idea what I could lift so started all exercises at very light weights . You add 5kg each week to your lifts, there's a spreadsheet that works out what you should he lifting . There's also optional tier 3 lifts I don't record actual weights for these it could be bodyweight or areas I feel week that I work on .

So Day 1 is
T1 squat 5*3
T2 bench 3*10

Day 2
T1 bench 5*3
T2 deadlift 3*10

Day 3
T1 deadlift 5*3
T2 overhead press 3*10

Day 4
T1 overhead press 5*3
T2 squat 3*10

Increasing weight workout to workout ,if you fail the 5*3 there's protocols where you go 6*2 etc same with failing on 3*10 you go 3*8 then 3*6 etc.
I haven't failed a workout yet but getting fairly close with overhead press . I'm just wondering is that what people do when they weight train constantly try lift heavier ? Or will I get to a point where I just can't lift heavier and every time I train I'll lift same weights.? I have ordered fractional plates as the 5kg jump on ohp is too much now.
Thanks

the baby bull elephant

new2tri19 wrote: »

I'm following a plan called GZCLP.
Im doing the 3 day version .

Each day there's a tier 1 lift 5*3 reps done at 80% 5 rep max I think . And a tier 2 exercise 3 sets of 10 which is 50% of 5 rep max I think. I'd no idea what I could lift so started all exercises at very light weights . You add 5kg each week to your lifts, there's a spreadsheet that works out what you should he lifting . There's also optional tier 3 lifts I don't record actual weights for these it could be bodyweight or areas I feel week that I work on .

So Day 1 is
T1 squat 5*3
T2 bench 3*10

Day 2
T1 bench 5*3
T2 deadlift 3*10

Day 3
T1 deadlift 5*3
T2 overhead press 3*10

Day 4
T1 overhead press 5*3
T2 squat 3*10

Increasing weight workout to workout ,if you fail the 5*3 there's protocols where you go 6*2 etc same with failing on 3*10 you go 3*8 then 3*6 etc.
I haven't failed a workout yet but getting fairly close with overhead press . I'm just wondering is that what people do when they weight train constantly try lift heavier ? Or will I get to a point where I just can't lift heavier and every time I train I'll lift same weights.? I have ordered fractional plates as the 5kg jump on ohp is too much now.
Thanks

GZCLP is a really solid plan but not sure if you read one or two parts wrong? The upperbody is meant to increase by 5lbs each week which is 2.5kg while the lower increases by 10lbs or 5kg. As you've found out adding 5kg on OHP each week is a lot tougher than adding it on deadlift. Your final set in the tier one exercises is also meant to be an AMRAP with one or two reps left in the tank.

https://thefitness.wiki/routines/gzclp/

You're right that eventually you won't be able to add weight session to session like you do as a beginner. For most people this period tends to last very roughly between 6 months to a year. It's one of the reasons I recommend 531 for Beginners or GZCLP over other popular beginner programmes like Stronglifts and Starting Strength. They both have AMRAPs in them which helps people to get the idea that progress is not measured solely by weight on the bar. If we could all add weight each session in perpetuity there wouldn't only be two men who've deadlifted 500kg. However, if one week you can lift 100kgx4 and the next you can do it by 5 you've gotten better.

The LP in GZCLP stands for linear progression and that's generally what these beginner programmes are because your progress is strictly linear. You're able to make such progress as a beginner as much because of getting used to the motor patterns as any muscle gain. At some point if you want to keep making progress you'll have to move on to a linear periodisation programme which focuses on progress over a longer period, usually three weeks or so. The majority of modern western programmes use this model of wave periodisation. You will also eventually have to pick between hypertrophy and strength for what you will focus on for a block but that is probably a long while off.

So to try and be more succinct yes there will come a time when you can't add weight week to week but there is still a whole heap of progress you can make in that stage, as in literally years of progress it just doesn't move as fast as your early beginner stage.

When you feel its getting too hard to progress or recover from your current programme there's a good few you could try. Jacked & Tanned 2.0 and GZCL UHF are both done by GZCL (Cody LeFever) and use principles you're familiar with, Nuckols 20 Free Programs (highly customisable), Juggernaut Method and most 531 variations.

Cill94

new2tri19 wrote: »

I haven't failed a workout yet but getting fairly close with overhead press . I'm just wondering is that what people do when they weight train constantly try lift heavier ? Or will I get to a point where I just can't lift heavier and every time I train I'll lift same weights.? I have ordered fractional plates as the 5kg jump on ohp is too much now.
Thanks

Overhead press will naturally be the first lift to plateau for most people so I wouldn't worry about it slowing down.

As babybull alluded to, you simply just have to start making smaller increases over a longer period of time.

Food, sleep, technique, and programming should be prioritised when you do eventually hit a plateau.

Alf Veedersane

Pretty much been answered already but any standard programme I did with OHP in it, OHP was the one where I hit the wall first. It's why I originally bought fractional plates.

new2tri19

Thanks guys really detailed answers there it's a huge help for a new lifter. I probably did read the spreadsheet wrong alright and it's 5lbs increase for press exercises.
The last set i have been doing amrap for the squat and deadlift I've been stopping at 20 reps. As I was overly cautious starting off very light I'm only at squatting and deadlifting my bodyweight now so it's easy enough to go on and do loads but don't want to get sloppy particularly with deadlift.

It's very enjoyable the program I'd recommend it .I'll definitely have a look at them other programs mentioned when/if I exhaust this one.

Dtp1979

In my opinion, doing reps of 8+ on deadlift with a challenging weight Is asking for trouble

Alf Veedersane

Dtp1979 wrote: »

In my opinion, doing reps of 8+ on deadlift with a challenging weight Is asking for trouble

Tbf, the reason for the high reps is because he's said the weight isn't challenging.

Cill94

Dtp1979 wrote: »

In my opinion, doing reps of 8+ on deadlift with a challenging weight Is asking for trouble

If all your training is based off weights you can do with solid technique, then I think it's fine.

Cill94

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks guys really detailed answers there it's a huge help for a new lifter. I probably did read the spreadsheet wrong alright and it's 5lbs increase for press exercises.
The last set i have been doing amrap for the squat and deadlift I've been stopping at 20 reps. As I was overly cautious starting off very light I'm only at squatting and deadlifting my bodyweight now so it's easy enough to go on and do loads but don't want to get sloppy particularly with deadlift.

It's very enjoyable the program I'd recommend it .I'll definitely have a look at them other programs mentioned when/if I exhaust this one.

Enjoy it The process of incrementally getting better in such a measurable way is what makes lifting such a fun hobby.

I did one set of 12 deadlifts on Thursday and I'm really feeling it in my lower back now.. A fair bit more than usual but still in a good way I think. I went back to 5 and 5 with higher weights for the other two sets. Don't think I'm a fan of the higher reps. Really exhausting and a lot of chat online says to stay between 3-5 for them.

Dtp1979

Cill94 wrote: »

If all your training is based off weights you can do with solid technique, then I think it's fine.

Of course. I agree. But I think a lot of people will fool themselves with the deadlift into thinking they’re doing ok. It’s so taxing on the entire body and easy to cheat so when you get tired and technique starts to break down and you’ve 3 - 4 reps left, thats where I think it could all go pear shaped

Cill94

The problem with the deadlift is you can keep getting reps even when your back starts to round. Whereas in most of the other lifts, a major technique breakdown will just make you fail the rep. It takes a long time for some people to develop the awareness to feel themselves lose their back arch and cut the deadlift set.

I wouldn't do high reps on deadlift too often myself but I can see the argument for more experienced people training for muscle gain, or with a light weight for a beginner learning the exercise.

Alf Veedersane

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I did one set of 12 deadlifts on Thursday and I'm really feeling it in my lower back now.. A fair bit more than usual but still in a good way I think. I went back to 5 and 5 with higher weights for the other two sets. Don't think I'm a fan of the higher reps. Really exhausting and a lot of chat online says to stay between 3-5 for them.

If you're feeling it in your lower back, chances are it's not a good way

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Tbf, the reason for the high reps is because he's said the weight isn't challenging.

Yeah I concur it was my fault I started so light on deadlift wanted to work on form and in no rush so I'm just adding 5kg I'm at 80kg now took a couple of 10kg jumps as hadn't the weight plates combination needed. But there all done slow and on form (I hope) my AMRAP should come down soon enough as I add more . Thanks for advice .

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

Yeah I concur it was my fault I started so light on deadlift wanted to work on form and in no rush so I'm just adding 5kg I'm at 80kg now took a couple of 10kg jumps as hadn't the weight plates combination needed. But there all done slow and on form (I hope) my AMRAP should come down soon enough as I add more . Thanks for advice .

Better off starting light and work on technique tbh.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you're feeling it in your lower back, chances are it's not a good way

It isn't "sore". Just feels like the muscles each side of the spine got a serious work out. Did hyperextension as well at the end. Have been meaning to take another form video and post it here though.

Cill94

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It isn't "sore". Just feels like the muscles each side of the spine got a serious work out. Did hyperextension as well at the end. Have been meaning to take another form video and post it here though.

Probably just muscle soreness then. What you don’t want to have is any sharp burning/zappy type sensations, or excessive tightness.

Alf Veedersane

Cill94 wrote: »

Probably just muscle soreness then. What you don’t want to have is any sharp burning/zappy type sensations, or excessive tightness.

It's quite possible it was just muscle soreness from hyperextensions.

But poor form on a deadlift will also cause muscle soreness because it's taking more of a load than it should. It doesn't have to result in a more acute set of symptoms.

I know you know that but I just thought it was important to clarify.

calfmuscle

If the form is correct and it's just DOMS you should feel it in a few muscles groups, like hamstrings, glutes and or middle back and shoulders. If only in lumber spine you need to rethink your program and form.

chases0102

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a Full Body Kettlebell workout?

Mellor

chases0102 wrote: »

Hi all,

Can anyone recommend a Full Body Kettlebell workout?

Snatch,
Swing,
Press,
Row,
Get up,
Carry,

Increase weight or volume for hyperextensions? I'm on 3x15 and not sure if I should go to 3x20 or increase weight.

Cill94

Deleted User wrote: »

Increase weight or volume for hyperextensions? I'm on 3x15 and not sure if I should go to 3x20 or increase weight.

It doesn't really matter in my experience. Do one until you hit a wall and then try the other.

Adding a pause or just doing timed static holds is also an option.