Random Fitness Questions

Greyfox

Should i do squats on weights day or cardio day?

Im a beginner when it comes to weights so im doing 3 full body weights workouts a week and my diet is very good at the moment. Losing fat and getting fitter is nice but building muscle is my priority. I normally do cardio straight after weights but im now going to try doing cardio on 2 seperate days inbetween my weights days as im told this is better. (I exercise in the evenings as morning exercise is never going to happen)

So lets say weights on tuesday and cardio on wednesday. But if i do leg exercises and jog the next day would i be risking not giving enough recovery time? What if i did upper body weights tues and wed i did leg exercises and jogging.. my jogging performance would suffer but would burning out my leg muscles like this be a good idea? Should i just do squats on weight days?

Alf Veedersane

Greyfox wrote: »

Should i do squats on weights day or cardio day?

Im a beginner when it comes to weights so im doing 3 full body weights workouts a week and my diet is very good at the moment. Losing fat and getting fitter is nice but building muscle is my priority. I normally do cardio straight after weights but im now going to try doing cardio on 2 seperate days inbetween my weights days as im told this is better. (I exercise in the evenings as morning exercise is never going to happen)

So lets say weights on tuesday and cardio on wednesday. But if i do leg exercises and jog the next day would i be risking not giving enough recovery time? What if i did upper body weights tues and wed i did leg exercises and jogging.. my jogging performance would suffer but would burning out my leg muscles like this be a good idea? Should i just do squats on weight days?

It really comes down to priorities. If weights are your priority then the running takes the hit

But you need to manage recovery. The only considerations aren't whether to do cardio after a level workout or the next day. How often do you do a lower body/leg workout?

Black Sheep

I wrote a big post but Alf said what I was going to say.

If you are not particularly into running, or are willing to try something different, you could also consider just keeping your lifting three days a week, and finish each session with a short but intense "finisher" that would get your heart rate up and give at least some conditioning benefits. Push a prowler / drag a sled ... Do a barbell complex for a couple of rounds with a light weight ... Do a short circuit with 2-3 exercises etc. As with the runs though there is a point where they'll definitely detract from your lifting in strict terms.

Alf Veedersane

Actually, sorry...I re-read it properly. You're doing 3 full-body workouts a week so roughly every second day.

In which case, I'd say like Black Sheep advised and do it at the end of the weights session, especially if its just cardio for maintaining/improving cardiovascular fitness.

Think of yourself like a well. You drain the well on training days and allow it refill on the days between. If you drain it to some degree on the days between workouts, your starting point gets lower and lower until it gets low enough that it starts impacting your workouts and you get less from them because you're just not recovered.

Greyfox

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Actually, sorry...I re-read it properly. You're doing 3 full-body workouts a week so roughly every second day.

In which case, I'd say like Black Sheep advised and do it at the end of the weights session, especially if its just cardio for maintaining/improving cardiovascular fitness.

Think of yourself like a well. You drain the well on training days and allow it refill on the days between. If you drain it to some degree on the days between workouts, your starting point gets lower and lower until it gets low enough that it starts impacting your workouts and you get less from them because you're just not recovered.

Thanks, im going to stick with cardio at the end and just mix up my cardio type as its easier to get it done while your already in the gym. Also 3 days a week and really pushing myself is something ill definitely stick with long term

D'Agger

If I'm doing a push/pull/legs split, and I'm hitting chest and triceps quite a bit on Push, will leaving bicep exercises to the pull day hold me in good stead, or should I be hitting biceps for a 'finishing' exercise before I leave the gym given my triceps are knackered. Or would doing the pull session the day after the push session with some cable curls etc work just the same.

Basically if I'm hitting enough sets/reps per body part, per week it shouldn't really matter but what would the general preference here be out of interest?

Alf Veedersane

Just do them at the end on any given day. They're unlikely to affect any of the lifts that matter.

D'Agger

Thought as much, cheers Alf

vafankillar

anyone else's anxiety through the roof with the prospects of the gyms closings announcement every day

Mellor

vafankillar wrote: »

anyone else's anxiety through the roof with the prospects of the gyms closings announcement every day

Not in the slightest. Gym are a convenient way to work out. But there are many other ways of working out in isolation with minimal equipment.

A dependence on the gym, to the point of crippling anxiety seems absolutely counterproductive in terms of (mental) health.

vafankillar

Mellor wrote: »

Not in the slightest. Gym are a convenient way to work out. But there are many other ways of working out in isolation with minimal equipment.

A dependence on the gym, to the point of crippling anxiety seems absolutely counterproductive in terms of (mental) health.

What a stupid comment. We're going into the peak of winter and many people have **** all room at home mate.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

Not in the slightest. Gym are a convenient way to work out. But there are many other ways of working out in isolation with minimal equipment.

You can do a workout at home but still miss the gym. Not to the point where your anxiety is through the roof but I was glad to get back to the gym because certain things you can't replicate with what I had. And frankly I just enjoy squatting, benching and deadlifting so I can empathise with missing having access to the gym and the equipment.

Some people also miss the impetus to workout that physically going to the gym gives them.

Mellor

vafankillar wrote: »

What a stupid comment. We're going into the peak of winter and many people have **** all room at home mate.

You don't need to go outside to workout. You also don't need massive amounts of room either, you just need to put a tiny bit of effort into planning. But much easier to say its too hard and call it stupid. :rolleyes:

Prisoners in solitary find a way to workout. Should not be an issue for anyone at home.

And you are completely missing the point. Health and Fitness includes mental health as well as physical health. Stressing out about a workout to the point of anxiety going through the roof is a huge negative. Focus on what you can do not what you can't.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You can do a workout at home but still miss the gym. Not to the point where your anxiety is through the roof but I was glad to get back to the gym because certain things you can't replicate with what I had. And frankly I just enjoy squatting, benching and deadlifting so I can empathise with missing having access to the gym and the equipment.

Some people also miss the impetus to workout that physically going to the gym gives them.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with missing the gym and good old fashion weight training. And I never suggested otherwise.
But there is a massive fundamental difference between missing or not wanting to lose something you enjoy and with being unable to see any alternative whatsoever, to the point where it's affecting anxiety badly. That mentality is not doing anyone any good.


There are certain activities that can't do done easily at home. But general working out is not one of them.

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with missing the gym and good old fashion weight training. And I never suggested otherwise.
But there is a massive fundamental difference between missing or not wanting to lose something you enjoy and with being unable to see any alternative whatsoever, to the point where it's affecting anxiety badly. That mentality is not doing anyone any good.


There are certain activities that can't do done easily at home. But general working out is not one of them.

Fair enough. It did read as you did a little though but that's clearer.

I did get bored of high rep everything leg related and I found myself questioning whether I would 'leave it til tomorrow' towards the end of the 4 months the gyms were closed...but it's I don't foresee gyms being closed as long again so it's easier to deal with for most.

But I can understand why people would hate the thought of not having access to the gym though but not to the extent of anxiety going through the roof.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

But I can understand why people would hate the thought of not having access to the gym...

Of course.

...though but not to the extent of anxiety going through the roof.

Which was the key point. That anxiety is not helping anyone, and recognising it is one of the first steps to fixing it imo.

calfmuscle

The reality is that many ppl use exercise to help them reduce or cope with their anxieties, so the prospect of not having access to a gym is heightening those anxieties. It's really understandable and I sympathise with them.

Mellor

calfmuscle wrote: »

The reality is that many ppl use exercise to help them reduce or cope with their anxieties, so the prospect of not having access to a gym is heightening those anxieties. It's really understandable and I sympathise with them.

Of course many people use sports and activities to cope with stress and anxiety. Myself included. Please don't mistake my post for not understanding the "why". And yes it's natural for lockdown to increase that stress. Being natural reaction doesn't mean people should just roll over and accept it imo.

Certain sports require training partners, close physical contact, specific venues, etc. If that's removed, there really no alternative way to train those sports. Check out any BJJ forum and see how many people haven't be able to do any training in over 6 months. There's realy no solution there, so the anxiety increase is really unavoidable - I've experienced this myself.

However, other sports are high flexible and lend themselves to going it solo. Going to the gym/weight training of one. There are lots of ways to maintaining training in that regard. And I strongly feel that focusing on what you can do is far far better for mental health than thinking the gym is the only way.

If somebody posted that their yoga studio was closed due to covid. And it was making them anxious. How would you suggest people mitigate that.

Black Sheep

Some of the challenges of having minimal or no equipment at home can be interesting. I think that's part of what Mellor is saying, in fairness.

I've always been interested in programming and if someone is limited to bodyweight and - for example - one or two relatively light dumbbells, you have to really think about what is the optimum way to train and still cause adaptation to occur. Might involve techniques like rest / pause sets... Pre-exhaustion techniques... Exaggerating the tempo... And so on.

I think a bareness of equipment does also lend itself to exploring calisthenics / bodyweight training and progressions there. There's a ton of information out there about building towards things like one armed push ups and pistol squats that could probably occupy a beginner for a long time.

There are people who choose to train this way all the time!

Not the best for getting big and jacked, but in fairness still rewarding and potentially very stimulating.

Ross Enamait, Pavel Tsatsouline, and some of the kitsch but entertaining Dragon Door publications on 'Convict Conditioning' come to mind.

I've said it before, but I think the one piece of equipment that is definitely the bedrock is a door-frame pull-up bar, or some other way of performing a decent pulling movement. There are enough bodyweight-only pushing and lower body movements that don't require any equipment, but impossible to train a pull without equipment unless you try something like an isometric pull on a doorway, which doesn't work very well I would think.

Cill94

Have to say I got realllly sick of bodyweight training after those first couple months in lockdown. If they closed the gyms and I had to start over again, I'd go mad.

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

Some of the challenges of having minimal or no equipment at home can be interesting. I think that's part of what Mellor is saying, in fairness.

I've always been interested in programming and if someone is limited to bodyweight and - for example - one or two relatively light dumbbells, you have to really think about what is the optimum way to train and still cause adaptation to occur. Might involve techniques like rest / pause sets... Pre-exhaustion techniques... Exaggerating the tempo... And so on.

I think a bareness of equipment does also lend itself to exploring calisthenics / bodyweight training and progressions there. There's a ton of information out there about building towards things like one armed push ups and pistol squats that could probably occupy a beginner for a long time.

There are people who choose to train this way all the time!

Not the best for getting big and jacked, but in fairness still rewarding and potentially very stimulating.

Ross Enamait, Pavel Tsatsouline, and some of the kitsch but entertaining Dragon Door publications on 'Convict Conditioning' come to mind.

I've said it before, but I think the one piece of equipment that is definitely the bedrock is a door-frame pull-up bar, or some other way of performing a decent pulling movement. There are enough bodyweight-only pushing and lower body movements that don't require any equipment, but impossible to train a pull without equipment unless you try something like an isometric pull on a doorway, which doesn't work very well I would think.

Partly why I started to find it harder towards the end was the load, particularly with squat and hip hinge movements. I did mostly single-leg work to get the best bang for my buck with a 25kg sandbag and used pauses and tempo work. And all of the lunges. But I did find myself thinking "this is a bar with 2.5kg plates on it". I headed into lockdown ready to play around with different movements as it came towards the end of peaking for a comp at the end of March but then there comes a point you just want to get under the bar. But that's just because I've spend a fair while training to improve the SBD.

Push up handles were a great addition though. If only for increasing ROM. Tempo, long pauses....bench held up well.

I haven't actually used the pull up bar in the house since I bought it. It left marks on the wall when I was renting and frankly they annoyed me. I don't want to find myself annoyed into paining the wall anytime soon But I found an Argos bar I got maybe 10 years go and used it with a heavy band for doing RDLs and rows.

But I think part of it, for me anyway, was that you can't do anything like you would normally do and the novelty of playing around wears off after a while. If you do a lot of bodyweight stuff then it's something you're into and it makes no odds. It's just not my thing though. Well, I don't mind it and it has its uses but not to be the totality of what I do.

Black Sheep

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Partly why I started to find it harder towards the end was the load, particularly with squat and hip hinge movements. I did mostly single-leg work to get the best bang for my buck with a 25kg sandbag and used pauses and tempo work. And all of the lunges. But I did find myself thinking "this is a bar with 2.5kg plates on it". I headed into lockdown ready to play around with different movements as it came towards the end of peaking for a comp at the end of March but then there comes a point you just want to get under the bar. But that's just because I've spend a fair while training to improve the SBD.

Push up handles were a great addition though. If only for increasing ROM. Tempo, long pauses....bench held up well.

I haven't actually used the pull up bar in the house since I bought it. It left marks on the wall when I was renting and frankly they annoyed me. I don't want to find myself annoyed into paining the wall anytime soon

But I think part of it, for me anyway, was that you can't do anything like you would normally do and the novelty of playing around wears off after a while. If you do a lot of bodyweight stuff then it's something you're into and it makes no odds. It's just not my thing though. Well, I don't mind it and it has its uses but not to be the totality of what I do.

Yeah, I don't disagree... There is a reason I got myself a bar, plates and rack earlier in the year after about two weeks of doing the minimalist training thing. But I was trying to put a positive spin on things for others

I get that it won't be for everyone, but if it is all someone can do then still worth noting that minimal equipment training can be more than just quite basic circuits, which absolutely does get boring very quickly. There's a better chance to keeping things interesting if you try to spritz it up with a few different techniques to increase difficulty, and maybe some skill progression from one movement to another one that's a goal (One handed push up or whatever).

Gymnastics rings would be another option that CrossFit has popularised a bit more. A lot of material out there about beginners stuff using rings that is another area that someone could do if they had a place to hang rings.

The lower body is a bit challenging alright though. The most difficult 'at home' lower body movement I can think of is probably pistols with added weight. And I can't think of too many other options (Skater squats? Bulgarian split squats with whatever is to hand? And still easier variations than pistols).

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

The lower body is a bit challenging alright though. The most difficult 'at home' lower body movement I can think of is probably pistols with added weight. And I can't think of too many other options (Skater squats? Bulgarian split squats with whatever is to hand? And still easier variations than pistols).

I used to switch between Bulgarian split squats and lunges. Jesus I had some awful DOMS from those early sessions of lunges. Platz squats (before Johnny Candy-toe made them cool again) but with heels even closer together - I did them way less than I should have.

Just to your overall point about the positives. the one thing I always bore in mind is that every time I did a session at home it made the road back to where I wanted to be a little shorter. That helped in the days I just wasn't feeling enthused at all.

Mellor

Black Sheep wrote: »

Some of the challenges of having minimal or no equipment at home can be interesting. I think that's part of what Mellor is saying, in fairness.

I've always been interested in programming and if someone is limited to bodyweight and - for example - one or two relatively light dumbbells, you have to really think about what is the optimum way to train and still cause adaptation to occur. Might involve techniques like rest / pause sets... Pre-exhaustion techniques... Exaggerating the tempo... And so on

Exactly. Sitting down and programming around the inconvenience takes a little effort. But the benefit is massive imo.

As much as I think the powerlifting moves are the foundation of a strength program. I think its always good to test yourself in other ways. People get so efficient at squatting just enough with a barbel, strong over that range and getting all muscles firing. Massive squat but unable to do a proper single leg work doesn't seam ideal to me.

Black Sheep wrote: »

The lower body is a bit challenging alright though. The most difficult 'at home' lower body movement I can think of is probably pistols with added weight. And I can't think of too many other options (Skater squats? Bulgarian split squats with whatever is to hand? And still easier variations than pistols).

Bulgarians, split squats etc are good options. But the second leg is still providing some drive. Pistols are a level above.

I do deep step ups rather than pistols. Same load and ROM as a pistol is you go deep. But more stable and eliminates the flexibility/flexion requirements of the resting leg.
I find the resting

new2tri19

new2tri19 wrote: »

Just to update this for anyone else that may be interested. I am still clueless when it comes to the gym but from advice here and reading it seems I wasn't eating near enough. I got on top of my eating which was hard at the start but now its just a habit , I used to skip breakfast run and then have a light lunch more cardio, I was just burning myself out and living on carbs.
I had a good look at my diet and added tuna bagels , chicken wraps and lots of fruit nuts etc and never skipping meals.
I am feeling much healthier overall I am follownig the 5/3/1 program for beginners 3 days a week and doing the 100 reps of push pull or abs afterwards.

I seem to gain muscle really easy I've had a fair few comments already and I am only at it less than 2 months. I am now 76kg from 67kg and will have to buy some new clothes if this keeps up! I am still trying to balance the training running is hard after squatting the day before its also harder at 76kg than 67kg interestingly the shorter interval runs I feel stronger on but anything long and my legs don't feel like I have that same pop off the ground. Cardio is cut right back now to about 1 hour a day .
Anyway thanks for advice all .

I stood on the scales tonight in shock to see i am now at 82kg it was not long after dinner and a workout but still its a long way from my original weight of 67kg. I don't look fat so i'm hoping it's all muscle (doubtful). I'm conciously trying to have some protein with each of my meals and adding a carton of protein milk the 27grammes ones once a day if i feel like i haven't eaten enough.

Just wondering i'm increasing weights workout to workout at the moment as a newbie lifter with no idea of 1 rep max i started very light but does there come a time where you don't try lift heavier and you do same weight everytime you train or do you just try lift heavier ? Like when do you stop adding weights thanks?

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

I stood on the scales tonight in shock to see i am now at 82kg it was not long after dinner and a workout but still its a long way from my original weight of 67kg. I don't look fat so i'm hoping it's all muscle (doubtful). I'm conciously trying to have some protein with each of my meals and adding a carton of protein milk the 27grammes ones once a day if i feel like i haven't eaten enough.

Just wondering i'm increasing weights workout to workout at the moment as a newbie lifter with no idea of 1 rep max i started very light but does there come a time where you don't try lift heavier and you do same weight everytime you train or do you just try lift heavier ? Like when do you stop adding weights thanks?

What does your workout look like?

iHungry

What's the best style of weight bench to buy for a beginner? I'll be using dumbbells. Cheers

new2tri19

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

What does your workout look like?

I'm following a plan called GZCLP.
Im doing the 3 day version .

Each day there's a tier 1 lift 5*3 reps done at 80% 5 rep max I think . And a tier 2 exercise 3 sets of 10 which is 50% of 5 rep max I think. I'd no idea what I could lift so started all exercises at very light weights . You add 5kg each week to your lifts, there's a spreadsheet that works out what you should he lifting . There's also optional tier 3 lifts I don't record actual weights for these it could be bodyweight or areas I feel week that I work on .

So Day 1 is
T1 squat 5*3
T2 bench 3*10

Day 2
T1 bench 5*3
T2 deadlift 3*10

Day 3
T1 deadlift 5*3
T2 overhead press 3*10

Day 4
T1 overhead press 5*3
T2 squat 3*10

Increasing weight workout to workout ,if you fail the 5*3 there's protocols where you go 6*2 etc same with failing on 3*10 you go 3*8 then 3*6 etc.
I haven't failed a workout yet but getting fairly close with overhead press . I'm just wondering is that what people do when they weight train constantly try lift heavier ? Or will I get to a point where I just can't lift heavier and every time I train I'll lift same weights.? I have ordered fractional plates as the 5kg jump on ohp is too much now.
Thanks

the baby bull elephant

new2tri19 wrote: »

I'm following a plan called GZCLP.
Im doing the 3 day version .

Each day there's a tier 1 lift 5*3 reps done at 80% 5 rep max I think . And a tier 2 exercise 3 sets of 10 which is 50% of 5 rep max I think. I'd no idea what I could lift so started all exercises at very light weights . You add 5kg each week to your lifts, there's a spreadsheet that works out what you should he lifting . There's also optional tier 3 lifts I don't record actual weights for these it could be bodyweight or areas I feel week that I work on .

So Day 1 is
T1 squat 5*3
T2 bench 3*10

Day 2
T1 bench 5*3
T2 deadlift 3*10

Day 3
T1 deadlift 5*3
T2 overhead press 3*10

Day 4
T1 overhead press 5*3
T2 squat 3*10

Increasing weight workout to workout ,if you fail the 5*3 there's protocols where you go 6*2 etc same with failing on 3*10 you go 3*8 then 3*6 etc.
I haven't failed a workout yet but getting fairly close with overhead press . I'm just wondering is that what people do when they weight train constantly try lift heavier ? Or will I get to a point where I just can't lift heavier and every time I train I'll lift same weights.? I have ordered fractional plates as the 5kg jump on ohp is too much now.
Thanks

GZCLP is a really solid plan but not sure if you read one or two parts wrong? The upperbody is meant to increase by 5lbs each week which is 2.5kg while the lower increases by 10lbs or 5kg. As you've found out adding 5kg on OHP each week is a lot tougher than adding it on deadlift. Your final set in the tier one exercises is also meant to be an AMRAP with one or two reps left in the tank.

https://thefitness.wiki/routines/gzclp/

You're right that eventually you won't be able to add weight session to session like you do as a beginner. For most people this period tends to last very roughly between 6 months to a year. It's one of the reasons I recommend 531 for Beginners or GZCLP over other popular beginner programmes like Stronglifts and Starting Strength. They both have AMRAPs in them which helps people to get the idea that progress is not measured solely by weight on the bar. If we could all add weight each session in perpetuity there wouldn't only be two men who've deadlifted 500kg. However, if one week you can lift 100kgx4 and the next you can do it by 5 you've gotten better.

The LP in GZCLP stands for linear progression and that's generally what these beginner programmes are because your progress is strictly linear. You're able to make such progress as a beginner as much because of getting used to the motor patterns as any muscle gain. At some point if you want to keep making progress you'll have to move on to a linear periodisation programme which focuses on progress over a longer period, usually three weeks or so. The majority of modern western programmes use this model of wave periodisation. You will also eventually have to pick between hypertrophy and strength for what you will focus on for a block but that is probably a long while off.

So to try and be more succinct yes there will come a time when you can't add weight week to week but there is still a whole heap of progress you can make in that stage, as in literally years of progress it just doesn't move as fast as your early beginner stage.

When you feel its getting too hard to progress or recover from your current programme there's a good few you could try. Jacked & Tanned 2.0 and GZCL UHF are both done by GZCL (Cody LeFever) and use principles you're familiar with, Nuckols 20 Free Programs (highly customisable), Juggernaut Method and most 531 variations.

Cill94

new2tri19 wrote: »

I haven't failed a workout yet but getting fairly close with overhead press . I'm just wondering is that what people do when they weight train constantly try lift heavier ? Or will I get to a point where I just can't lift heavier and every time I train I'll lift same weights.? I have ordered fractional plates as the 5kg jump on ohp is too much now.
Thanks

Overhead press will naturally be the first lift to plateau for most people so I wouldn't worry about it slowing down.

As babybull alluded to, you simply just have to start making smaller increases over a longer period of time.

Food, sleep, technique, and programming should be prioritised when you do eventually hit a plateau.

Alf Veedersane

Pretty much been answered already but any standard programme I did with OHP in it, OHP was the one where I hit the wall first. It's why I originally bought fractional plates.