Random Fitness Questions

Cill94

new2tri19 wrote: »

Yeah I do rows aswell not as many , I would do 3 sets of 12 barbell rows with a heavy weight .

I'm doing strict push ups chest to ground , core tight but I just noticed something when I watched an archer push up tutorial that they start in a push up position with elbows tucked in . My push ups are with elbows almost 90 degrees like a T position. I can't believe I've been doing push ups wrong all these years .
I can do maybe 3-5 archer push ups each side at the moment fully rested but where they come in the workout video I don't manage any cause my shoulders seem to be finished after the pike and regular push up before trying them .

Yeah you need to be doing them with your elbows tucked to about 45 degrees. That 'T position'/90 degree angle is terrible for your shoulders in heavy pushing exercises.

As for the routine, I'm just gonna suggest you give this a look:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058104438

new2tri19

Cill94 wrote: »

Yeah you need to be doing them with your elbows tucked to about 45 degrees. That 'T position'/90 degree angle is terrible for your shoulders in heavy pushing exercises.

As for the routine, I'm just gonna suggest you give this a look:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058104438

Thanks mate appreciate that , will give it a look . Weights is a minefield so much to learn loads of conflicting information loads of get ripped quick stuff, hard to wade through it all and find good information, thank God for boards.

Mellor

Cill94 wrote: »

Even if it's total volume, there's still no evidence to support that position of needing double the pulling to pushing.

I think training each movement pattern equally is about as reasonable a position as you can take. Individuals may need to do more volume on certain things for whatever reasons.

You can be deficient in any area, and you can overdo pulling and posterior chain work just like you can anterior.

I don’t know if there is a clinical study or anything that backs up a 2:1 ratio from the get go.
However, looking around at the average gym goer, it’s pretty common to see guys with over developed anterior. Walking around hunched up in front. Far more common that the reverse.

If you do vert/hori push/pull in equal sets/reps you end up around a 1.25:1 ratio anyway due to press being weak.

Personal I spend most of my time training a sport that often leads to a front imbalance. For me targeting 2:1 seems good. But you’re right, everyone needs to assess their own strength balance.

Cill94

Mellor wrote: »

I don’t know if there is a clinical study or anything that backs up a 2:1 ratio from the get go.
However, looking around at the average gym goer, it’s pretty common to see guys with over developed anterior. Walking around hunched up in front. Far more common that the reverse.

If you do vert/hori push/pull in equal sets/reps you end up around a 1.25:1 ratio anyway due to press being weak.

Personal I spend most of my time training a sport that often leads to a front imbalance. For me targeting 2:1 seems good. But you’re right, everyone needs to assess their own strength balance.

I would contend that the majority of those guys look like that because they do almost no pulling work, not because they are only doing a 1:1 ratio. Also, posture differences cannot simply be boiled down to a strength imbalances, though that's a separate topic.

I have encountered a large amount of people (lads in particular) who do literally no pulling exercises. A really significant % of gym goers think strength training is just bench press and curls.

I would also contend that a front 'imbalance' is actually anatomically normal. We are mechanically built to be stronger at pushing than we are pulling. I don't think it's realistic or necessary for someone to chase an equal strength level in their bench and row, for example.

silverharp

Cill94 wrote: »

I would contend that the majority of those guys look like that because they do almost no pulling work, not because they are only doing a 1:1 ratio. Also, posture differences are not as simple as a strength imbalances, though that's a separate topic.

I have encountered a large amount of people (lads in particular) who do literally no pulling exercises. A really significant % of gym goers think strength training is just bench press and curls.

I would also contend that a front 'imbalance' is actually anatomically normal. We are mechanically built to be stronger at pushing than we are pulling. I don't think it's realistic or necessary for someone to chase an equal strength level in there bench and row, for example.

bruh, you gotta row to grow

Mellor

Cill94 wrote: »

I would contend that the majority of those guys look like that because they do almost no pulling work, not because they are only doing a 1:1 ratio.

Well that was the point.
Regardless of whether or not there’s a benefit starting out with a 1:2 ratio. A huge majority train with such an imbalance for years that now they benefit from biasing rowing.

I would also contend that a front 'imbalance' is actually anatomically normal. We are mechanically built to be stronger at pushing than we are pulling. I don't think it's realistic or necessary for someone to chase an equal strength level in their bench and row, for example.

By imbalance I was referring to tight v weak agonists pair, shoulder/hip issues from same rather than comparing 1RMs.

Although I’d question if we are mechanically stronger at pushing.
Horizontally sure, Bench will typically be great than row. But vertically pull-ups will be stronger than OHP. But then a pull up isn’t pull full BW either.

silverharp

is there a % range of OHP weight to Bench that's worth keeping in mind?

Mellor

silverharp wrote: »

is there a % range of OHP weight to Bench that's worth keeping in mind?

60-65% seems normal


It it was <50% or >75% less something is prob wrong

Brian?

Cill94 wrote: »

I would contend that the majority of those guys look like that because they do almost no pulling work, not because they are only doing a 1:1 ratio. Also, posture differences cannot simply be boiled down to a strength imbalances, though that's a separate topic.

I have encountered a large amount of people (lads in particular) who do literally no pulling exercises. A really significant % of gym goers think strength training is just bench press and curls.

I would also contend that a front 'imbalance' is actually anatomically normal. We are mechanically built to be stronger at pushing than we are pulling. I don't think it's realistic or necessary for someone to chase an equal strength level in their bench and row, for example.

You really need to factor in lifestyle. I commute by bike to sir a desk. To maintain healthy shoulders I need to do an absolute minimum of 2:1 pull:push.

I never in all my time met someone with an over developed upper back compared to their chest and front delts.

Cill94

Brian? wrote: »

You really need to factor in lifestyle. I commute by bike to sir a desk. To maintain healthy shoulders I need to do an absolute minimum of 2:1 pull:push.

I never in all my time met someone with an over developed upper back compared to their chest and front delts.

Sure, as I said, individuals may need to add more for specific reasons.

To give my own anecdote, I have a long history of problems with my right shoulder. Took my pulling volume up to double my pushing (and beyond) based on advice from professionals, and it did nothing for the pain. I just got really strong at pulling and weaker at pushing.

I take your point that it's less likely to find someone who's more developed in the upper back, but again I think that's normal. I just think this over-emphasis on upper back work is really not all that helpful for people, especially if someone needs to get out of pain like I did. Scapular winging is an example of an issue where the treatment may require the person to do more pushing work, in order to strengthen the serratus anterior.

I hear things like 'you can never do enough rows' spouted a lot, which to me is nonsense. You can overdo anything. I would personally just tell people that as part of a good programme they need to be getting stronger at rows and chin-ups, and leave it at that. I don't see a need to do loads of extra volume unless you specifically want to get really good at those things. I can see all your guys points though.

Mellor

Brian? wrote: »

You really need to factor in lifestyle. I commute by bike to sir a desk. To maintain healthy shoulders I need to do an absolute minimum of 2:1 pull:push.

That is similar to the situation I was getting at. Hours training/sitting/being in a bad position means the start position is ridiculously bias to begin with.

I never in all my time met someone with an over developed upper back compared to their chest and front delts.

I’d imagine rock climbers could have pretty overdeveloped backs. Bit of a niche case.

Cill94

Mellor wrote: »

I’d imagine rock climbers could have pretty overdeveloped backs. Bit of a niche case.

Yup. Rowers as well. Both groups suck at pushing in my experience. You get good at what you do, etc.

Brian?

Mellor wrote: »

That is similar to the situation I was getting at. Hours training/sitting/being in a bad position means the start position is ridiculously bias to begin with.


I’d imagine rock climbers could have pretty overdeveloped backs. Bit of a niche case.

Rock climbers are a good point. Never thought of them. My kids have switched from gymnastics to rock climbing this year, their lats are insane for kids. If my 9 year old did a 2 week cut he'd make a decent physique competitor.

Brian?

Cill94 wrote: »

Yup. Rowers as well. Both groups suck at pushing in my experience. You get good at what you do, etc.

More from Brian's family tales: my wife rowed competitively for years. 2nd time she deadlifts she pulled 1.5 x bodyweight. I was proud but insanely jealous.

new2tri19

I feel like I need to do loads of pulling work now what exercises are pulling ? I do bent over barbell rows but don't do loads because I feel like when I get tired my form suffers compared to a chest press which you are probably less likely to get wrong. So you work your back and front to get the balance so I'm guessing pull ups are also pull work so if I do lots of press ups combat that with lots of pull ups ? or is that too simplistic?

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

I feel like I need to do loads of pulling work now what exercises are pulling ? I do bent over barbell rows but don't do loads because I feel like when I get tired my form suffers compared to a chest press which you are probably less likely to get wrong. So you work your back and front to get the balance so I'm guessing pull ups are also pull work so if I do lots of press ups combat that with lots of pull ups ? or is that too simplistic?

Simplistic explanation is pulling exercises are where you're pulling something towards you and where the resistance is higher when you're pulling. Rows and pull ups, for example.

Like was said earlier, break it down to vertical and horizontal pulling and then vertical and horizontal pushing.

Bench press is a horizontal push, overhead press is a vertical push. Barbell row is a horizontal pull, pull ups a vertical pull.

Rows is a broad term...people sometimes think rows = barbell rows but there are a whole host of rows you can do.

Bredabe

I've been recommended Barre workouts, the online ones are too fast for me, until I know the routine.
Which should I do, try to keep up or take it at my own pace until I can keep up?

Cill94

Bredabe wrote: »

I've been recommended Barre workouts, the online ones are too fast for me, until I know the routine.
Which should I do, try to keep up or take it at my own pace until I can keep up?

Barre, as in ballet? I'd say this is a question better suited for a dance sub-forum.

Alf Veedersane

Cill94 wrote: »

Barre, as in ballet? I'd say this is a question better suited for a dance sub-forum.

It's a workout routine loosely based on ballet barre. Yoga, Pilates movements in a dancy format with some 'strength' exercises.

Bredabe wrote: »

I've been recommended Barre workouts, the online ones are too fast for me, until I know the routine.
Which should I do, try to keep up or take it at my own pace until I can keep up?

Were they recommended by a physio/GP?

Do them at the speed you're comfortable doing. The speed at which you can do them will come over time.

hayoc

Bredabe wrote: »

I've been recommended Barre workouts, the online ones are too fast for me, until I know the routine.
Which should I do, try to keep up or take it at my own pace until I can keep up?

Your own pace until you can keep up. If you rush youll just end up learning them with bad form.

atilladehun

Press pause, rewind, try it again.

YouTube can be played at .75 speed or half speed. Gives you a chance to watch the demo then try it for your own count.

Bredabe

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's a workout routine loosely based on ballet barre. Yoga, Pilates movements in a dancy format with some 'strength' exercises.



Were they recommended by a physio/GP?

Do them at the speed you're comfortable doing. The speed at which you can do them will come over time.

Specialist OT as its handy way to counteract the impact of Dyspraxia on my muscle tone.

Alf Veedersane

Bredabe wrote: »

Specialist OT as its handy way to counteract the impact of Dyspraxia on my muscle tone.

Then I'd just do them at your own speed. I just wondered why they didn't just mentioned doing some Pilates or yoga with resistance exercises.

The important thing is doing the moves properly to get the effect you're supposed to. As slow as you need to. The pace will follow.

new2tri19

new2tri19 wrote: »

Thanks thats promising that you can still bulk up while maintaining cardio training. I do ramp up and down the training and 80% of that cardio is easy stuff.
I am a peak training amount now mostly because the longer days means more long bike rides. When winter comes it will be closer to 8 hours.

The plan is to do weights now and work on form and mobility so I can do the exercises correctly , I've been working on hip mobility and squatting before putting any heavy weight on a bar as I don't want to get injured for starters.
Then when I get it dialled in I can spend more time lifting in winter.

In regards lifting to get bigger is it best to lift short reps with heaviest weight you can manage ? Also I do 3 sets of say bench press then move to squat then next excercse until done . Is it better to do 1 set of bench , 1 set of squat and then repeat the whole thing 3 times or is there any difference ?

I don't eat that much pretty standard every day , breakfast is cereal and coffee , lunch sandwitch and some fruit , dinner your standard meat and veg , tea and bar of chocolate. Snack very little , long bike ride a fullfil bar or 2 and same with hard swim ill take a fullfill bar. Before gym ill grab some kind of protein nut bar and have a protein shake afterwards. I'm 5ft 11 and 67kg I could probably do with getting that weight up.

I am dropping back the running as it's very hard to gain weight , my easy lunch time runs have been replaced by the gym. I'm just clueless on so many thinks when it comes to weights , like do you do your legs one day and upper body the next ? How many days a week to lift weights. You google it and there is so much conflicting information.

Just to update this for anyone else that may be interested. I am still clueless when it comes to the gym but from advice here and reading it seems I wasn't eating near enough. I got on top of my eating which was hard at the start but now its just a habit , I used to skip breakfast run and then have a light lunch more cardio, I was just burning myself out and living on carbs.
I had a good look at my diet and added tuna bagels , chicken wraps and lots of fruit nuts etc and never skipping meals.
I am feeling much healthier overall I am follownig the 5/3/1 program for beginners 3 days a week and doing the 100 reps of push pull or abs afterwards.

I seem to gain muscle really easy I've had a fair few comments already and I am only at it less than 2 months. I am now 76kg from 67kg and will have to buy some new clothes if this keeps up! I am still trying to balance the training running is hard after squatting the day before its also harder at 76kg than 67kg interestingly the shorter interval runs I feel stronger on but anything long and my legs don't feel like I have that same pop off the ground. Cardio is cut right back now to about 1 hour a day .
Anyway thanks for advice all .

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

Just to update this for anyone else that may be interested. I am still clueless when it comes to the gym but from advice here and reading it seems I wasn't eating near enough. I got on top of my eating which was hard at the start but now its just a habit , I used to skip breakfast run and then have a light lunch more cardio, I was just burning myself out and living on carbs.
I had a good look at my diet and added tuna bagels , chicken wraps and lots of fruit nuts etc and never skipping meals.
I am feeling much healthier overall I am follownig the 5/3/1 program for beginners 3 days a week and doing the 100 reps of push pull or abs afterwards.

I seem to gain muscle really easy I've had a fair few comments already and I am only at it less than 2 months. I am now 76kg from 67kg and will have to buy some new clothes if this keeps up! I am still trying to balance the training running is hard after squatting the day before its also harder at 76kg than 67kg interestingly the shorter interval runs I feel stronger on but anything long and my legs don't feel like I have that same pop off the ground. Cardio is cut right back now to about 1 hour a day .
Anyway thanks for advice all .

Sounds good. You've a much better idea of what works for you so it's a case of tweaking things to make it work for your training goals, eg longer runs.

Cill94

new2tri19 wrote: »

Just to update this for anyone else that may be interested.

Great to hear and well done on your progress.

When it comes to strength training, not eating enough is almost always a part of the reason for people not making progress, as it takes a lot of consistency and mild discomfort. I find people are amazed at how much easier it is to add weight to the bar when they're eating right.

It makes sense that your ability to run distance will have dropped off. It might just be a long term trade off for having more muscle mass, or you may find your times improve after a period of focusing more on running than lifting. Depends on the distance you run and how strong you want to be.

silverharp

Question about weaker arm/grip strength , can you get to the point of balancing it? I made minor effort last year adding in a few extra things for my left arm/grip strength but now I want to put more effort into this as I can feel my left hand struggles more when dead lifting, with a grip test meter right hand is stronger by ~20%. So Im doing plate pinch grips and dumbbell holds for left hand about twice a week and upping the time/weight and doing extra left arm machine press again once or twice. I have a crush grip set so I guess I could bring it when out walking and work the left hand more. It seems like something that could take a long time? or do I have to throw a lot more volume at it?

Alf Veedersane

silverharp wrote: »

Question about weaker arm/grip strength , can you get to the point of balancing it? I made minor effort last year adding in a few extra things for my left arm/grip strength but now I want to put more effort into this as I can feel my left hand struggles more when dead lifting, with a grip test meter right hand is stronger by ~20%. So Im doing plate pinch grips and dumbbell holds for left hand about twice a week and upping the time/weight and doing extra left arm machine press again once or twice. I have a crush grip set so I guess I could bring it when out walking and work the left hand more. It seems like something that could take a long time? or do I have to throw a lot more volume at it?

The dumbbell holds will help deadlift grip. The crush grip and pinch work to a lesser degree.

Just improve your grip strength over time and unless you're competing, you can use straps for deadlifts at a point where grip strength becomes an issue. Or mixed grip if you haven't tried that.

silverharp

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The dumbbell holds will help deadlift grip. The crush grip and pinch work to a lesser degree.

Just improve your grip strength over time and unless you're competing, you can use straps for deadlifts at a point where grip strength becomes an issue. Or mixed grip if you haven't tried that.

im of the view for me that my limits are my limits but this is only since the summer so Im sure it can be trained going forward, im only 30KG off my final goal lifting weight

Alf Veedersane

silverharp wrote: »

im of the view for me that my limits are my limits but this is only since the summer so Im sure it can be trained going forward, im only 30KG off my final goal lifting weight

Yeah I'd still try to improve your grip and it will become less of a limitation. Just that It may take time and not to let that be a limiting factor on your deadlift in the meantime when it doesn't need to be