Conor McGregor thread (MMA Talk Only - Read 1st Post Before Posting)

Tazzimus

walshb wrote: »

I cannot get behind people saying Aldo same size Conor. No matter what Aldo was cutting. Conor was near or at 170 and above and coming down to 145 lbs. in ring weight at FW, Conor was likely 160 or more...

Aldos walk around weight used to be 170, obviously that'll be lower now that he's shed weight to hit BW.
They both cut from about 170, both look like hell doing it and both weigh the same come fight night, give or take a pound or two, about 160. There's only so much weight you can put back on between weigh ins and the fight.

Mellor

walshb wrote: »

I cannot get behind people saying Aldo same size Conor. No matter what Aldo was cutting. Conor was near or at 170 and above and coming down to 145 lbs. in ring weight at FW, Conor was likely 160 or more...

Conor wasn’t cutting from 170. He’s 170-Ish at 155 and hasn’t a hope to cut to 145 from there.

When you you cut weight for a fight, they rehydrate after weigh in. Essentially all the weight goes back off on. Ring weight is where they cut from.

Weight lost during camp to get to a weight they can cut from is different. But that weight is irrelevant.
Aldo, Conor, Holloway all enter the ring st a similar size. If Conor was bigger, it was only a few lbs.

MidlanderMan

Mellor wrote: »

Conor wasn’t cutting from 170. He’s 170-Ish at 155 and hasn’t a hope to cut to 145 from there.

When you you cut weight for a fight, they rehydrate after weigh in. Essentially all the weight goes back off on. Ring weight is where they cut from.

Weight lost during camp to get to a weight they can cut from is different. But that weight is irrelevant.
Aldo, Conor, Holloway all enter the ring st a similar size. If Conor was bigger, it was only a few lbs.

This myth about Conor being a small light weight comes from the lie that he didn't cut weight to make 170 for the first Diaz fight, it's a total lie. He was mid 170s the week of the fight and cut several to weigh in a few lbs under for some bizarre reason. This was then used to build the Nate Diaz weighs 400lbs and that's why he was able to take donors shots lie.

When he was fighting at 145 he was walking around in the 170s and got into the mid 160s for camps and cut 15-20lbs for fights.

When he went up to 155 he got bigger.
He's bigger again now.

There's no way in he'll he's walking around out of camp in the low 170s now or any time in the last few years.

He's was a very big FW, average LW and a little smaller than most WWs. Mass wise now he's similar to Petis, Cerrone, Diaz, Dos Anjos etc. Their body shapes are very different, but they're all around the same mass on a regular, not in camp day and are cutting to 155/170 from similar weights for fights.

Diaz was bigger than Conor going into their first fight for one reason, he was in Mexico drinking Modelos and tequila when he gotn he call and had training camps of something like 14 days where as Conor had been in camp for months to fight at 155.

walshb

Ok, lot of this and that here...

Out of camp at FW, what weight was Conor walking at? I thought he got as high as 170..

Did I not read a 27 lbs cut to 145 lbs somewhere?!

Mellor

MidlanderMan wrote: »

When he was fighting at 145 he was walking around in the 170s and got into the mid 160s for camps and cut 15-20lbs for fights.

When he went up to 155 he got bigger.
He's bigger again now.

that’s essentially what I said above.
He was cutting a lot at FW. He added some mass when he moved up, not very much though as he clearly wasn’t cutting as much at LW.

He's was a very big FW, average LW and a little smaller than most WWs. Mass wise now he's similar to Petis, Cerrone, Diaz, Dos Anjos etc. Their body shapes are very different, but they're all around the same mass on a regular, not in camp day and are cutting to 155/170 from similar weights for fights.

I don’t think anyone suggests he wasn’t a big FW. Clearly he was.
But some posters where suggesting that he was cutting an exceptional amount compared to other FWs. He wasn’t.
Or that he success was simply because of size. Ridiculous. There are mid tier FWs cutting as much as Conor was. There will never be near the belt.

He’s an average LW. Which makes him way smaller than the average WW. Those fighters you mentioned, are all small at WW and really belong at 155 imo.

Mellor

walshb wrote: »

Ok, lot of this and that here...

Out of camp at FW, what weight was Conor walking at? I thought he got as high as 170..

Did I not read a 27 lbs cut to 145 lbs somewhere?!

The 27lbs came from Chael Sonnen’s podcast iirc. So I’d take it with a pinch of salt.

But if he was 165 in cage at FW, then I’d imagine he be 170 out of camp easily enough. Reported out of camp weights are notoriously unreliable.

walshb

Mellor wrote: »

The 27lbs came from Chael Sonnen’s podcast iirc. So I’d take it with a pinch of salt.

But if he was 165 in cage at FW, then I’d imagine he be 170 out of camp easily enough. Reported out of camp weights are notoriously unreliable.

Interesting.

Anyway, it’s just a view I have when assessing his overall legacy.

I think his best win was probably his showing v Diaz 2, who while I don’t rate highly, is bigger than Conor, and he kept coming..

The Aldo fight is an anomaly for me. Can’t really assess it. Nothing happened. He scored the very early KO..

He never rematched Khabib. I thought he did ok, but kind of crumbled as well..

I personally think Conor needs coupe wins vs LWs and WWs before I’d consider him top top fighter..

mdwexford

walshb wrote: »

Overall I think Conor's career was good, but nothing special...a hell of a lot more OTT hype than actual substance

This thread never fails to deliver ridiculous nonsense.

Conor McGregors MMA career is nothing special, hard to believe someone can say this with a straight face.

Fall_Guy

mdwexford wrote: »

This thread never fails to deliver ridiculous nonsense.

Conor McGregors MMA career is nothing special, hard to believe someone can say this with a straight face.

In fairness to Walsh, I get what he's saying. His level of fame and the ppv buys he brought in were like nothing ever seen before in the sport. And he did win titles in two divisions in emphatic fashion so he deserves his place in the history of the sport, but his whole body of work inside the octagon can't really compare to the fighters he claimed to be in the mix with in his own GOAT rankings on twitter a while ago, for instance.

"Nothing special" is a harsh assessment but I get the sentiment.

Homelander

Well in fairness he belongs nowhere near GOAT talk from a fighting POV and no one really disputes that. His incredible rise to fame and stardom though, and the spotlight he put on MMA worldwide during that course, it's a very different type of GOAT to some people, in the way that they might consider Hulk Hogan the greatest wrestler of all time....and it's nothing to do with his skill in the ring.

He's left a footprint that very few ever do or will. Basically a household name, something an MMA star had never captured before.

I do think it's silly to describe his career as nothing special, though - the skill he had is completely undeniable. 22 wins, 4 losses, 19 knockouts. Most of those in a division not generally known for massive KO power - fighting in the highest talent pool in the world. He was dynamite to watch.

Maybe he'll continue to succeed, maybe not....maybe he'll turn into an ever bigger a-hole, or maybe he'll stay quiet and well behaved...who knows, who cares. Still doesn't change my opinion of him as a fighter or color my opinion of the amazing career he had.

Mellor

sonofenoch wrote: »

Would probably agree with all of that..........while Khabib clearly has enormous core strength he's not a physical specimen .........I'd even say he'd be an average size WW

Khabib fighters at LW. Being an average WW means he's a huge LW.
I don't get this idea of adjusting divisions to diminish a fighters size ability.

It's lie saying Paulo Costa isn't a specimen because he's an average sized LHW.
when in reality it's a MW Juicy BOi

walshb wrote: »

I think his best win was probably his showing v Diaz 2, who while I don’t rate highly, is bigger than Conor, and he kept coming..

The Aldo fight is an anomaly for me. Can’t really assess it. Nothing happened. He scored the very early KO.

I don't know how anyone can't assess the Aldo fight.
That was the peak of a stellar FW run. Sure it was fast. But nobody had ever done that to Aldo. Jose was 145 king. He's rush in with the jab, cross , low kick and opponent would cower. Conor skips and fires the left. Post fight a clip emerges of him warming up with the same combo. But because it's Conor people try to rewrite it as a lucky punch, vrs a washed up champ.

He finished a lot of guys quickly, that shouldn't be held against him. But in terms of a masterclass in dominance, his Alvarez fight was the best more me.
But that's another one that people try to rewrite.

I personally think Conor needs coupe wins vs LWs and WWs before I’d consider him top top fighter..

He's one of 3 greatest all time FWs.
He needs more wins at LW to be considered a top top LW.
He's not a WW, not sure why he would need to do anything in that division.

That's the mad thing with Conor. He could have stayed in FW. Or insisted Diaz fight happened at LW. For what ever reason he took the fights at WW, and now people want to use that against him measure him against Usman and co. Bizarre stuff.

Ush1

Mellor wrote: »

That's the mad thing with Conor. He could have stayed in FW. Or insisted Diaz fight happened at LW. For what ever reason he took the fights at WW, and now people want to use that against him measure him against Usman and co. Bizarre stuff.

Not really bizarre, Conor has always stoked that and hyped it up. Staring down Woodley backstage etc...

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

In fairness to Walsh, I get what he's saying. His level of fame and the ppv buys he brought in were like nothing ever seen before in the sport. And he did win titles in two divisions in emphatic fashion so he deserves his place in the history of the sport, but his whole body of work inside the octagon can't really compare to the fighters he claimed to be in the mix with in his own GOAT rankings on twitter a while ago, for instance.

"Nothing special" is a harsh assessment but I get the sentiment.

Exactly.

Not at all saying he didn’t have a good career.

I was separating the hype and marketing from the actual performances..

Based purely off body of work in the octagon I don’t rate him as special.

I like h his fighting style. I just don’t rate him as one if the greets. For me he is not in that debate at all..

Tazzimus

No one that has a brain is putting him in the GOAT conversation.

eagle eye

walshb wrote:

I like h his fighting style. I just don’t rate him as one if the greets. For me he is not in that debate at all..

Where do you rank him all time as a featherweight?

Mellor

Ush1 wrote: »

Not really bizarre, Conor has always stoked that and hyped it up. Staring down Woodley backstage etc...

I'm well aware Conor has teased a WW run many times. That's his choice in self promotion. If those fights never happen, it is irrelevant in terms of how his in-ring performances are assessed.

Trying to disregard his FW/LW fights because he stared down Woodley is bizarre.
If the fights happen and he somehow won, obviously that's an insane achievement. But there's no logic in refusing to take him seriously until he does it.

Same goes for Khabib. The fact he won't move up shouldn't undermine his LW record.
Jones also talks about moving to HW. If he does great. But if he doesn't, his LHW records still counts.

Ush1

Mellor wrote: »

I'm well aware Conor has teased a WW run many times. That's his choice in self promotion. If those fights never happen, it is irrelevant in terms of how his in-ring performances are assessed.

Trying to disregard his FW/LW fights because he stared down Woodley is bizarre.
If the fights happen and he somehow won, obviously that's an insane achievement. But there's no logic in refusing to take him seriously until he does it.

Same goes for Khabib. The fact he won't move up shouldn't undermine his LW record.
Jones also talks about moving to HW. If he does great. But if he doesn't, his LHW records still counts.

People are gonna compare his accomplishments at WW because he fought at that weight and flirted with making a title run.

I'm not saying it diminishes what he did in the cage but that's why people would mention it.

Ush1

walshb wrote: »

Exactly.

Not at all saying he didn’t have a good career.

I was separating the hype and marketing from the actual performances..

Based purely off body of work in the octagon I don’t rate him as special.

I like h his fighting style. I just don’t rate him as one if the greets. For me he is not in that debate at all..

What's the criteria for special?

First UFC fighter to hold belts at two different weights at the same time. Think he's the only fighter with KOs at three different weight classes IIRC.

Tazzimus

Ush1 wrote: »

What's the criteria for special?

First UFC fighter to hold belts at two different weights at the same time. Think he's the only fighter with KOs at three different weight classes IIRC.

Two weight classes. That Cowboy fight was a LW fight, no matter what the UFC try to spin it as

The Nal

Tazzimus wrote: »

No one that has a brain is putting him in the GOAT conversation.

Exceptional career though. 10-2 in the UFC across 3 weight divisions, 8 TKO/KO finishes, 2 titles. Not bad at all.

akelly02

if he defended the FW belt say even 3 times id say id give him the FW goat title

walshb

Ush1 wrote: »

What's the criteria for special?

First UFC fighter to hold belts at two different weights at the same time. Think he's the only fighter with KOs at three different weight classes IIRC.

Special to me is a really complete all around type fighter....

Conor had glaring weaknesses for me.....I don't rate him as great all around.

Tazzimus

The Nal wrote: »

Exceptional career though. 10-2 in the UFC across 3 weight divisions, 8 TKO/KO finishes, 2 titles. Not bad at all.

He's definitely up there in terms of talent, but not even remotely in the conversation for GOAT status.

Mellor

Ush1 wrote: »

People are gonna compare his accomplishments at WW because he fought at that weight and flirted with making a title run.

I'm not saying it diminishes what he did in the cage but that's why people would mention it.

It’s kinda idiotic to hold him up to WW standards tbh. He fought LWs at WW.

Same Silva had the odd fight at LHW. Mighty Mouse at 135. Neither won the higher belt but it wouldn’t be fair to use that against either.

Ush1

Tazzimus wrote: »

Two weight classes. That Cowboy fight was a LW fight, no matter what the UFC try to spin it as

Well obviously the records will show it was at three weight classes because of what the fighters weighed in at.

AbusesToilets

walshb wrote: »

Special to me is a really complete all around type fighter....

Conor had glaring weaknesses for me.....I don't rate him as great all around.

Would you say all the guys he knocked out shared the glaring weakness for getting punched in the face? Just a dumb line of argument. Boxers in the early UFCs who quit when they got taken down had glaring weaknesses, getting submitted twice isn't. That's part of the game.

walshb

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Would you say all the guys he knocked out shared the glaring weakness for getting punched in the face? Just a dumb line of argument. Boxers in the early UFCs who quit when they got taken down had glaring weaknesses, getting submitted twice isn't. That's part of the game.

Who said getting submitted twice was a glaring weakness?

Ush1

Mellor wrote: »

It’s kinda idiotic to hold him up to WW standards tbh. He fought LWs at WW.

Same Silva had the odd fight at LHW. Mighty Mouse at 135. Neither won the higher belt but it wouldn’t be fair to use that against either.

Sure who really cares, GOAT and special talk is all general waffle anyway.

The Floyd p

Based on the quality of his wins, and his style, he's clearly a top 20 fighter OAT, probably somewhere 11-15 personally.
The fame and his notoriety unfortunately supersede his ability, but doesn't contribute to his ranking, for me.

He's not as good as his die hard fans state he is (Khabib fight was a fluke etc) but he's easily better than some in this thread are claiming.

eagle eye

walshb wrote:

Special to me is a really complete all around type fighter....
Conor had glaring weaknesses for me.....I don't rate him as great all around.

Did you miss my question?
Where do you rank him all time among featherweights?