All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

threeball

BloodyBill wrote: »

Wrong opinion

Careful everyone the opinion police are out tonight.

slegs

jr86 wrote: »

The infamous recency effect syndrome - synonymous with all internet fora!

I only recall too well how good Galway looked after winning Leinster last year (even if the final took a replay) and their form went completely south from there

This game will be rendered essentially irrelevant when both line out at the same stage for their semis in a few weeks (no disrespect to Dublin but I can't see them beating Tipp)

The bit people are missing is that Tipp were dismantled today. This wasn’t a 2 point loss in a tight game. I agree they could very well still recover and win an All Ireland but to suggest that Tipp are not damaged by this is just ignoring the facts

Powerhouse

BloodyBill wrote: »

Not at all. Limerick had an advantage over Tipperary today. The Gaelic grounds was a big advantage. Its home and away. Please dont try and tell me if Man utd got Liverpool in a knock out game at old Trafford then it wouldn't be an advantage..(leaving form ect aside)

Home and away?! Really? The last four times Tipperary and Limerick have met in a Munster Final in my memory, two have been in Cork and two have been in Limerick. Home and away my eye.

jr86

BloodyBill wrote: »

Wrong opinion

Which?

If Tipp beat Dublin - which they'll be expected to - they're straight into a semi v Wexford.

Limerick will be facing either Cork or Kilkenny at the same stage (arguably tougher on paper than tipp's game, certainly if Cork win).

There ain't a huge advantage in winning the province anymore, bar maybe generating momentum. The loser only has to play one game against the 3rd best side from the other province to catch up again with the winner

rm75

Powerhouse wrote: »

Maybe Dublin will suggest playing it at a neutral venue like Croke Park.

Whatever about the footballers nobody could seriously dispute that Parnell is the hurlers home ground. No way should have to play Tipp at home yet again, Croke Park should be the venue.

threeball

slegs wrote: »

The bit people are missing is that Tipp were dismantled today. This wasn’t a 2 point loss in a tight game. I agree they could very well still recover and win an All Ireland. It to suggest that Tipp are not damaged by this is just ignoring the facts

People arent missing it. They're just going on the championship as a whole unlike some who like to crown champions or write off contenders based on one game. Tipp were all over Limerick two weeks ago and the forwards didn't even click.
You could see tipp just completely back off the intensity at about 50mins today.

jr86

slegs wrote: »

The bit people are missing is that Tipp were dismantled today. This wasn’t a 2 point loss in a tight game. I agree they could very well still recover and win an All Ireland but to suggest that Tipp are not damaged by this is just ignoring the facts

Perhaps but they will have two more games to get on their horse again before a final

I don't see too many rating Cork's chances despite them actually beating limerick. It's simply because cork haven't played in a while and most hurling analysis is completely recency effect based.

Hypothetically if limerick fluked a win in the semi v kk by playing awful, and tipp beat Wexford by 20 points, tipp will be favourites on this forum mark my words, because again most only judge teams on their last game. You'll barely see anyone reference today

slegs

Powerhouse wrote: »

Home and away?! Really? The last four times Tipperary and Limerick have met in a Munster Final in my memory, two have been in Cork and two have been in Limerick. Home and away my eye.

It’s a general home and away agreement that predates the current round robin. It applied to all munster championship games in the past and now would only apply for Munster finals in the round robin era. Last game was in Semple. Why would Tipp agree to it if it wasn’t the case?????

slegs

jr86 wrote: »

Perhaps but they will have two more games to get on their horse again before a final

I don't see too many rating Cork's chances despite them actually beating limerick. It's simply because cork haven't played in a while and most hurling analysis is completely recency effect based.

Hypothetically if limerick fluked a win in the semi v kk by playing awful, and tipp beat Wexford by 20 points, tipp will be favourites on this forum mark my words, because again most only judge teams on their last game. You'll barely see anyone reference today

I hear what you are saying but it doesn’t make Tipp’s issues any less real

threeball

jr86 wrote: »

Perhaps but they will have two more games to get on their horse again before a final

I don't see too many rating Cork's chances despite them actually beating limerick. It's simply because cork haven't played in a while and most hurling analysis is completely recency effect based.

Hypothetically if limerick fluked a win in the semi v kk by playing awful, and tipp beat Wexford by 20 points, tipp will be favourites on this forum mark my words, because again most only judge teams on their last game. You'll barely see anyone reference today

Limerick for their win today ended up on the worse side of the draw. That is a fact.

slegs

threeball wrote: »

Limerick for their win today ended up on the worse side of the draw. That is a fact.

Maybe but after that shellacking, if I were Liam Sheedy, I wouldn’t be too excited about playing Dublin Sunday week

jr86

slegs wrote: »

I hear what you are saying but it doesn’t make Tipp’s issues any less real

4/5 wins in championship so far though, each of the wins emphatic

If they won today by a fluke last minute winner yet lost two games in the group stage, people would have them as AI favourites now.

Statistically they're actually the best team in Munster this year so far in champ.

Powerhouse

slegs wrote: »

The bit people are missing is that Tipp were dismantled today. This wasn’t a 2 point loss in a tight game. I agree they could very well still recover and win an All Ireland but to suggest that Tipp are not damaged by this is just ignoring the facts

So if you agree that they could very well recover and win the All Ireland, what exactly is the nature of the damage? It could be argued that a two point loss in a tight game would be more difficult to process as it would have meant that a team would have played reasonably well.

slegs

Powerhouse wrote: »

So if you agree that they could very well recover and win the All Ireland, what exactly is the nature of the damage? It could be argued that a two point loss in a tight game would be more difficult to process as it would have meant that a team would have played reasonably well.

Could and no effect / will are very different things

jr86

Powerhouse wrote: »

So if you agree that they could very well recover and win the All Ireland, what exactly is the nature of the damage? It could be argued that a two point loss in a tight game would be more difficult to process as it would have meant that a team would have played reasonably well.

Second half today actually brought me back to the cork game in 2010 when they were hammered but went on and won an AI

It may sound strange but as you say sometimes being well beaten can be better in long run than a gut wrenching point loss especially if they feel they left it behind

slegs

jr86 wrote: »

Second half today actually brought me back to the cork game in 2010 when they were hammered but went on and won an AI

It may sound strange but as you say sometimes being well beaten can be better in long run than a gut wrenching point loss especially if they feel they left it behind

Jaysus I’ll bow out. Getting hammered is a good thing now

robbiezero

Powerhouse wrote: »

So if you agree that they could very well recover and win the All Ireland, what exactly is the nature of the damage? It could be argued that a two point loss in a tight game would be more difficult to process as it would have meant that a team would have played reasonably well.

Dont know about that. You would always give yourself a chance of turning around a 2 point deficit.
Limerick were 20 points a better team than us today. That's going to be very hard to turn around.
Also Dublin and Wexford even if not at the same level as Limerick like to play a possession game, are very physical and athletic teams who will run at us all day and tackle ferociously.
We will have it all to do to beat either or both of them.

threeball

slegs wrote: »

Maybe but after that shellacking, if I were Liam Sheedy, I wouldn’t be too excited about playing Dublin Sunday week

I doubt he'll lose any sleep. Tipp were unlikely to go through the championship unbeaten. Today was a good day to take the fall. There's no losing from here in. Plenty to get stuck into fellas about now.

Powerhouse

slegs wrote: »

It’s a general home and away agreement that predates the current round robin. It applied to all munster championship games in the past and now would only apply for Munster finals in the round robin era. Last game was in Semple. Why would Tipp agree to it if it wasn’t the case?????

I have no idea, I was not privy to the decision. But Waterford played two Munster Finals against Tipperary in recent years in Thurles and they performed better than they did against the same county in three others which were played in Cork and Limerick during the same period.

threeball

robbiezero wrote: »

Dont know about that. You would always give yourself a chance of turning around a 2 point deficit.
Limerick were 20 points a better team than us today. That's going to be very hard to turn around.
Also Dublin and Wexford even if not at the same level as Limerick like to play a possession game, are very physical and athletic teams who will run at us all day and tackle ferociously.
We will have it all to do to beat either or both of them.

They're just good warm ups for the real thing then. I'm still not convinced limerick will make the final. Cork kk is key. Limerick would destroy KK but not Cork.

jr86

slegs wrote: »

Jaysus I’ll bow out. Getting hammered is a good thing now

Sure who said it was?

I've no idea why you're taking this so seriously or keep deliberately missing the point people are making

The point I'm making is that teams have been known to ship bad losses but bounce back again.

Sometimes it can be psychologically easier to pick yourself up after a handsome loss when you know you didn't perform

Tipp were hammered today but it's scratched now. They won't turn around and put an asterisk beside their names if they win the all Ireland, they won't give limerick a few points headstart in the final. There's no lasting effects with score difference

Rightly or wrongly the format of the championship allows teams to shake off losses like these

Powerhouse

robbiezero wrote: »

Dont know about that. You would always give yourself a chance of turning around a 2 point deficit.
/QUOTE]


You might but that doesn't always work out either. Tipperary lost the League Final by a puck of the ball after extra time to Kilkenny in 2014. They lost the All Ireland after a replay to the same opposition. When games are close you can delude yourself too and think you are almost good enough whereas a bad beating requires you to actually address problems. There's also an assumption in all of this that Limerick will beat Cork in a semi-final which is hardly a given.

robbiezero

jr86 wrote: »

Second half today actually brought me back to the cork game in 2010 when they were hammered but went on and won an AI

It may sound strange but as you say sometimes being well beaten can be better in long run than a gut wrenching point loss especially if they feel they left it behind

I'm seeing that comparison with Cork 2010 quite a bit. Cork 2010 was a first round game though and we were a bit ambushed down by the Lee. Sheedy and the players acknowledged afterwards that their training and conditioning work had been slack in preparation for the game, also Aisake O'Hailpin came out of nowhere to destroy us that day.
We had 5 weeks before our next game in the qualifiers that year so plenty of time to put in the work that had been lacking and we got a few handy games v Wexford and Offaly to get back in the groove.

Today is a very different story. Our training and conditioning has been as good as it could have been. No rustiness as we have 4 games played. We have had 3 games in 6 weeks, 1 a fortnight, so the perfect run in and yet we were completely destroyed. We have 2 weeks now to recover and we do have a decent chance at making an AI. Hard to see how we can turn the tables on Limerick if they maintain that form and end up playing us again.

Bonniedog

rm75 wrote: »

Whatever about the footballers nobody could seriously dispute that Parnell is the hurlers home ground. No way should have to play Tipp at home yet again, Croke Park should be the venue.

I see no argument in favour of this game being in Croke Park, other than I could walk there!

Seriously though, it is All Ireland quarter final and should certainly not be played as a curtain raiser, nor in CP on its own in front of 25,000 at the most, . I am realistic about our chances. and would imagine - if we beat Laois, Tipp will be 2/5 favourites. Which is about realistic. We have a less than 30% chance on form and history of beating them, anywhere. League quarter final means nothing now, other than changing mind sets, of our lads anyway. doubt that Sheedy goes there!

If it is not to be Thurles - actually saw somewhere that the two games were to be there but apparently that is not written in stone, then Nowlan Park be perfect both for likely attendance and relative convenience.

Dub hat aside, and the last chance cards gone, really looking forward to next six weeks. Limerick looked brilliant today, but Tipp did up until around 2.20pm.

kala85

2019
OUTRIGHT BETTING 2019
Limerick 11 /10

Tipperary 11/4

Cork 7/1

Wexford 7/1

Kilkenny 10/1

Dublin28/1


Seven to one on Cork is some price. Even each way on tipp is good price

kala85

When will the venues be known for the quarter finals?

robbiezero

Powerhouse wrote: »

robbiezero wrote: »

Dont know about that. You would always give yourself a chance of turning around a 2 point deficit.

You might but that doesn't always work out either. Tipperary lost the League Final by a puck of the ball after extra time to Kilkenny in 2014. They lost the All Ireland after a replay to the same opposition. When games are close you can delude yourself too and think you are almost good enough whereas a bad beating requires you to actually address problems. There's also an assumption in all of this that Limerick will beat Cork in a semi-final which is hardly a given.

I'd be fairly confident of Limerick coming through alright. I think KK will take Cork. Limerick seem to have pushed on a good bit from last year whereas I doubt Cork have, if anything they have been poorer so far.
I'd agree that sometimes if fundamental changes are needed a close beating might paper over the cracks, but I don't see where we have the facility for making big changes here. We have a very limited bench. If we are to do anything this year, it will be the usual 16/17 players to power it on.

shockframe

robbiezero wrote: »

I'm seeing that comparison with Cork 2010 quite a bit. Cork 2010 was a first round game though and we were a bit ambushed down by the Lee. Sheedy and the players acknowledged afterwards that their training and conditioning work had been slack in preparation for the game, also Aisake O'Hailpin came out of nowhere to destroy us that day.
We had 5 weeks before our next game in the qualifiers that year so plenty of time to put in the work that had been lacking and we got a few handy games v Wexford and Offaly to get back in the groove.

Today is a very different story. Our training and conditioning has been as good as it could have been. No rustiness as we have 4 games played. We have had 3 games in 6 weeks, 1 a fortnight, so the perfect run in and yet we were completely destroyed. We have 2 weeks now to recover and we do have a decent chance at making an AI. Hard to see how we can turn the tables on Limerick if they maintain that form and end up playing us again.

The same doubts about Tipp were there before the Cork game and they answered them emphatically. They aimed to peak in the group stage and are still very dangerous.

Bonner is a big loss but Tipp are the standout team on their side of the draw. In a one off game in Croke Park where they tend to perform anything can happen. They are not out of the race by a long chalk.

threeball

robbiezero wrote: »

I'm seeing that comparison with Cork 2010 quite a bit. Cork 2010 was a first round game though and we were a bit ambushed down by the Lee. Sheedy and the players acknowledged afterwards that their training and conditioning work had been slack in preparation for the game, also Aisake O'Hailpin came out of nowhere to destroy us that day.
We had 5 weeks before our next game in the qualifiers that year so plenty of time to put in the work that had been lacking and we got a few handy games v Wexford and Offaly to get back in the groove.

Today is a very different story. Our training and conditioning has been as good as it could have been. No rustiness as we have 4 games played. We have had 3 games in 6 weeks, 1 a fortnight, so the perfect run in and yet we were completely destroyed. We have 2 weeks now to recover and we do have a decent chance at making an AI. Hard to see how we can turn the tables on Limerick if they maintain that form and end up playing us again.

Tipp took the foot off the gas at about 50 mins. All the major scoring damage was done after that. Callinan ever had his goal chance to bring it back to 2 in that period. 5% off the pace in hurling can result in a hammering. Intensity is extremely important. Disproportionate to other sports.

Powerhouse

jr86 wrote: »

The infamous recency effect syndrome - synonymous with all internet fora!

A very good point this. I'd say synonymous with all GAA too!

I remember last year after Kerry beat Cork in the Munster football final people writing in the papers that Dublin's time was running out such was the er…..powerhouse that was coming from the south-west. In today's papers Donegal are the next big thing. A few weeks ago in hurling Tipperary were the team. Tomorrow it'll be Limerick.