Why do Irish people support English teams?

8-10

D14Rugby wrote: »

You're not though because if Liverpool ever got relegated those overseas fans, those free ticket fans, those Irish lads I hate to break it to you but they won't be there. People are there for the Instagram posts, to be able to say they were there, they're not actually there for the club.

I don't get your point?

If they're not there then they're no longer fans, so I wouldn't care about them. There'll still be people there. Less, yes, but still some. I don't have any expectation that the ground would be full in League 1, that's not why I support the team.

You seem to be missing the point that I make over and over that I support the team on the pitch. I love the atmosphere but as I've said the atmosphere changes game to game based on context, time of day, opposition etc.

The bad times are very very important. Losing 6-1 to Stoke matters, losing the Champions League Final last year matters. Because it's part of what we do on the pitch and without those games the Champions League win last week wouldn't feel as good.

I wouldn't swap this for anything. And we'll be relegated or win trophies in future. I can't wait.

D14Rugby

8-10 wrote: »

I don't get your point?

If they're not there then they're no longer fans, so I wouldn't care about them. There'll still be people there. Less, yes, but still some. I don't have any expectation that the ground would be full in League 1, that's not why I support the team.

You seem to be missing the point that I make over and over that I support the team on the pitch. I love the atmosphere but as I've said the atmosphere changes game to game based on context, time of day, opposition etc.

The bad times are very very important. Losing 6-1 to Stoke matters, losing the Champions League Final last year matters. Because it's part of what we do on the pitch and without those games the Champions League win last week wouldn't feel as good.

I wouldn't swap this for anything. And we'll be relegated or win trophies in future. I can't wait.

The point is if after some struggles they're no longer fans they never really were.

I'm not missing it it's just a bull**** "point" because the atmosphere isn't anything special in Anfield, half the time the Kop are sitting down it's embarrassing, I saw a clip the other day saying the Liverpool crowd went mad when sallahs daughter scored a goal, if what I saw was going crazy then I really need to lower my standards for atmosphere. The "Anfield roar" is a myth these days, just kept going by the fact 50,000 drunk people are always going to be loud and canned noise.

Give me a break they're not bad times, losing to Dublin City in a relegation playoff to be relegated for the first time ever and the club fighting for its existence in court thats bad times.

Yeah I'm sure...

8-10

D14Rugby wrote: »

The point is if after some struggles they're no longer fans they never really were.

I'm not missing it it's just a bull**** "point" because the atmosphere isn't anything special in Anfield, half the time the Kop are sitting down it's embarrassing, I saw a clip the other day saying the Liverpool crowd went mad when sallahs daughter scored a goal, if what I saw was going crazy then I really need to lower my standards for atmosphere. The "Anfield roar" is a myth these days, just kept going by the fact 50,000 drunk people are always going to be loud and canned noise.

Give me a break they're not bad times, losing to Dublin City in a relegation playoff to be relegated for the first time ever and the club fighting for its existence in court thats bad times.

Yeah I'm sure...

The atmosphere is special to me. And those times were bad to me. I don't see it as embarrassing. I like the songs, I like the cheering. And if they don't want to be fans anymore good luck to them, who am I to judge why they were a fan and why they stopped?

I don't compare to other clubs, why bother? This is my passion and this is what I enjoy. I don't like when we lose, but I'm saying it's necessary. If you don't see how that can relate to other levels of football, other sports or other aspects of life then I'm not explaining it well.

It's just a strange conversation. It's as if you want me to be embarrassed to support my team and care about why other fans also support us.

The Anfield atmosphere is not special 95% of the time, agreed. That's why games like Barcelona mean so much, are so much fun, and bring so much joy.

And that's what supporting your passion should be about: joy

If it's not for you then don't support an English team, don't support a successful team, support your local team or a more interesting team, play yourself or a different sport or whatever. Follow your passion and try find the same joy that I and thousands others experience with Liverpool

odyssey06

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is not PL the last time I checked that is Champions League.

You said PL supporters will never experience triumph in adversity.
It was pointed out that you that supporters of Liverpool, a PL club, have just experienced one of the greatest comebacks in the history of football against one of the great club teams.
Your response is "That is not PL the last time I checked that is Champions League."
You can write that stuff but I don't know how you expect anyone to believe it.

odyssey06

D14Rugby wrote: »

You're not though because if Liverpool ever got relegated those overseas fans, those free ticket fans, those Irish lads I hate to break it to you but they won't be there. People are there for the Instagram posts, to be able to say they were there, they're not actually there for the club.

For all we know, if they got relegated there'd be more Irish fans there, not less, if the tickets were cheaper and easier to come by!
If they were stuck in the Championship, over time attendances, both local, Irish and further afield would drop off. But so what? Same thing happens to relegated teams in the LOI.

D14Rugby

odyssey06 wrote: »

For all we know, if they got relegated there'd be more Irish fans there, not less, if the tickets were cheaper and easier to come by!
If they were stuck in the Championship, over time attendances, both local, Irish and further afield would drop off. But so what? Same thing happens to relegated teams in the LOI.

Yeah because that's exactly what happened to Leeds, West Ham, Notts Forest, Blackburn

8-10

D14Rugby wrote: »

Yeah because that's exactly what happened to Leeds, West Ham, Notts Forest, Blackburn

The attendances didn't drop off? You sure about that?

D14Rugby

8-10 wrote: »

The attendances didn't drop off? You sure about that?

I was obviously referring to the more Irish fans being there

8-10

D14Rugby wrote: »

I was obviously referring to the more Irish fans being there

How would you know that either way? But over time it goes down alright.

The main point of that post was the "so what?"

Why do people care why or how people support their club? None of this should be surprising

Hamsterchops

what happens if an english person living in england supports an Irish football team?

D14Rugby

8-10 wrote: »

How would you know that either way? But over time it goes down alright.

The main point of that post was the "so what?"

Why do people care why or how people support their club? None of this should be surprising

Because how many fans of those clubs do you see around Ireland these days? They were all over the place years ago.

Nice of you to decide the main point of someone else's point, to you it might have been.

People care when some joker that in reality doesn't give a **** about the club but likes to be seen to be supporting them claims to be as big a fan as the person that gives their blood sweat and tears to their club and would be there top of the top division or bottom of the bottom.

gormdubhgorm

odyssey06 wrote: »

You said PL supporters will never experience triumph in adversity.
It was pointed out that you that supporters of Liverpool, a PL club, have just experienced one of the greatest comebacks in the history of football against one of the great club teams.
Your response is "That is not PL the last time I checked that is Champions League."
You can write that stuff but I don't know how you expect anyone to believe it.

They don't.
They have to look outside the Premier League for that, that is what I meant.
They are already one of the big fish in the EFL pond.
By doing this they get the glamour and big events.
The CL is just a greater extension of that more glamour etc.
A competition for the top elites of the world game.

You could hardly call Liverpool a club who is suffering.
It is thier second CL final in a row the global brand is growing even more.
They are not struggling to survive like most fans clubs around the world, that is what I meant by adversity, hardship.

What liverpool did against Barcelona was turn around a football result at an extremely high level.
One of the few times Liverpool are ever viewed as underdogs.

My point is that real triumph in adversity in the greater scheme of it - they are already elite.
Liverpool are a massive club 6 European cups etc etc.
They are not a local side that no-one outside a country would know.
They are not your city's team. it is another city's team not even from the same country as you.
They are already among the elites and Irish Premier League fans just take thier pick of those elites. (top six)
Is that really in the true spirit of football support?

8-10

D14Rugby wrote: »

People care when some joker that in reality doesn't give a **** about the club but likes to be seen to be supporting them claims to be as big a fan as the person that gives their blood sweat and tears to their club and would be there top of the top division or bottom of the bottom.

There's only 1 side of the argument here where people are trying to claim to be a certain class of fan and putting others down.

What matters is the team, if people want to support the same team as I do, for whatever reason, I think that's great.

Claiming to be a true fan or real fan or whatever isn't really a thing in my book.

to you it might have been

Yes I thought that was implicit, I meant to me that was the most important part, it echoes my feeling about it: so what?

I watch my team play football, I don't watch people around me wondering where they're from or if they'll be around if we're relegated. Don't think about that for a second. It's about Liverpool FC on the pitch.

odyssey06

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They are not a local side that no-one outside a county would know.
They are already among the elites and Irish Premier League fans just take thier pick of those elites.

How are Dundalk, Cork, Pats, Bohemians, Rovers, Derry LOI teams not in the elite, by Irish standards?
And strangely they get higher average attendances than those in the First Division, and the Leinster Senior League.
Taken to your logical conclusion, the only real fans worthy of respect are those whose teams are in danger of, or have been recently, relegated.
An Irish fan who stuck with Aston Villa or Forest is more worthy of respect than someone who has followed a team who have only ever been in the LOI top division.

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They are already among the elites and Irish Premier League fans just take thier pick of those elites.
Is that really in the spirit of football support

Why wouldn't it be? There's no rules mate. Free will and personal choice. What's wrong with picking the elites if you think you'll enjoy it more?

For me the main benefit is getting to watch every single game. I don't have that choice with my local club.

atilladehun

These conversations are mad. How can we apply warped adult logic to.what is a state of mind that sets in you when you are a child.

I was brought to nearly every bohs game for over a decade as a child. My dad is still a member. I'm just not a fan though. I've been a few times as an adult, still not a fan. I follow their progress, watch clips online, chat to my dad and some colleagues about them but it just never worked for me.

I love watching Liverpool, always have. Have loved the chance, however slim that they might beat the best in the world, or even be the best in the world.

Its just they way it is. No point applying judgement to it, by you or me.

Some people love local bands, others love new bands but most people either like classic bands or pop music.

Some people even love Cavan Cola, but most drink Coke or pepsi.

Food, booze, art, we could do this analogy forever.

D14Rugby

odyssey06 wrote: »

How are Dundalk, Cork, Pats, Bohemians, Rovers, Derry LOI teams not in the elite, by Irish standards?
And strangely they get higher average attendances than those in the First Division, and the Leinster Senior League.
Taken to your logical conclusion, the only real fans worthy of respect are those whose teams are in danger of, or have been recently, relegated.
An Irish fan who stuck with Aston Villa or Forest is more worthy of respect than someone who has followed a team who have only ever been in the LOI top division.

Because they're all in large population density areas where they were there first and don't have other sports there taking fans or have populations big enough to cope with that happening. You forgot Sligo too.

Again you've had it explained to you why your LSL points are pulled out of your arse stop trying to bring it up.

You'll also find the likes of Derry, Cork, Rovers and dundalk did have very decent attendances when they were in the first division.

odyssey06

D14Rugby wrote: »

Because they're all in large population density areas where they were there first and don't have other sports there taking fans or have populations big enough to cope with that happening. You forgot Sligo too.
Again you've had it explained to you why your LSL points are pulled out of your arse stop trying to bring it up.
You'll also find the likes of Derry, Cork, Rovers and dundalk did have very decent attendances when they were in the first division.

I'm going to keep bringing up the Leinster Senior League because none of the 'real fans' brigade can explain the points away. Lots of Dublin teams in the league. The population density argument doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Why do Bohemians get more fans than Tolka Rovers?

hetuzozaho

atilladehun wrote: »

Some people love local bands, others love new bands but most people either like classic bands or pop music.

Some people even love Cavan Cola, but most drink Coke or pepsi.

Food, booze, art, we could do this analogy forever.

Yeah this it for me. I know lads who love going to LOI games but would turn there nose up a going to see a local Irish act or drinking an Irish beer - they would prefer a night at Bruce Springsteen etc with some pints of Heineken and some Jack and cokes

There's people who like to relax in the pub with some premier league after a day supporting some local Irish cinema or some local art exhibition.

And sure we all support local sport with our taxes anyway.
Sure it's all grand!

gormdubhgorm

8-10 wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be? There's no rules mate. Free will and personal choice. What's wrong with picking the elites if you think you'll enjoy it more?

For me the main benefit is getting to watch every single game. I don't have that choice with my local club.

But that is like picking a nice car,buying a nice meal at a fancy restaurant.
Pure unadulterated commercialism.
Branding, marketing and hype,
Zero to do with the community that you are from.
I just don't get it maybe you have to grow out of it or something in time.


When the PL was in it's infancy Jason Wilcox, got a PL medal!
Jason Wilcox!

That was back when it was still called the 'most exciting league in the world'
Because they could not call it the best league in the world with all the has beens like Kilnsmann etc looking for one last retirement fund.
Most of the players were English/UK and the other exotic ones were Scandinavian.
They could


The TV money got bigger and bigger

The brand became a juggernaut

https://themarketingagenda.com/2017/07/15/marketing-the-premier-league-brand/

To the extent that all records prior to the PL are not counted.

Jamie Vardy scores in eleven consecutive games

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/34953098

Irishman Jimmy Dunne is lucky to get a footnote -

Vardy needs to score in his next two games to equal the all-time record of consecutive goals scored at the top level of English football, set by Jimmy Dunne back in 1931-32. Playing for Sheffield United, Dunne scored 12 goals in succession.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Dunne


How can you honestly identify with something that is a foreign league, which rewrites and re-brands history?
It has nothing to do with where you are from or your community and place.

I will be honest when I hear Irish PL supporters say 'we' and put on those English accents for the songs, my heart sinks a bit.

Arsenal Marketing in Asia for example;



https://youtu.be/snctE6eHmN4?t=62


Does that not make you sick?
You are nothing more than a consumer to them.

D14Rugby

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm going to keep bringing up the Leinster Senior League because none of the 'real fans' brigade can explain the points away. Lots of Dublin teams in the league. The population density argument doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Why do Bohemians get more fans than Tolka Rovers?

You can stop bringing it up because its Sunday league so its not applicable as fans can be of both, its not like supporting Cork and Cobh it's like supporting Cork and College Corinthians which many do but the reason the numbers aren't as high is because many supporters of LOI team would play for their Sunday league team and they're a lot more common so the supporter pool is diluted. I have explained this before you just chose to ignore it as it didn't suit your narrative, as you have many other things too.

Population density doesn't matter? What are you on? If you have 60k people within 5 minutes of the ground of course you'll have higher attendances than if you have 6k within 5 minutes of the ground. Lots of Dublin teams and look where they are, Drumcondra, Phibsboro, Tallaght, Inchicore, then you've UCD and Cabo who are special cases, hardly GAA or Rugby strongholds those areas are they and very populated which is why thay have more fans than Galway which is a city dominated by GAA and Rugby and the ground isn't in a highly populated area of the city.

Bohs get more fans than tolka rovers because if Bohs get 3k a game and there's 10 teams around the area then that's 300 per team and that's not even accounting for fans playing for the Sunday league team or the attendance including away fans or tourists or people that have moved away. This is really simple logical thinking here I mean come on keep up

hetuzozaho

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Zero to do with the community that you are from.

But people grow up in communities where the local pub shows the Premier league and the Champions League, it's discussed in schools, on buses with strangers, waiting rooms, water coolers.

It is a big part of our communities now you'd have to agree?

gormdubhgorm

odyssey06 wrote: »

How are Dundalk, Cork, Pats, Bohemians, Rovers, Derry LOI teams not in the elite, by Irish standards?
And strangely they get higher average attendances than those in the First Division, and the Leinster Senior League.
Taken to your logical conclusion, the only real fans worthy of respect are those whose teams are in danger of, or have been recently, relegated.
An Irish fan who stuck with Aston Villa or Forest is more worthy of respect than someone who has followed a team who have only ever been in the LOI top division.

They are local teams playing football.
If a Man United fan supported his local team I can see the logic in it.
Or even another team nearer them and Man United.



You don't seem understand the point.

A real fan does not look for the the glamour team, and just support them on that basis.
A fan looks for a team close to them and supports them.
An Irish fan can look across the water and pick any team.
They invariably pick a top six premier league team.
It says a lot about the mentality it is not about the sport, but the glamour and image.
It is just a product they want not a team.

Unlike this fella -

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How can you honestly identify with something that is a foreign league, which rewrites and re-brands history?

It's really not difficult. You just follow your passion and throw yourself behind something you enjoy. I don't have strict rules around it which seems like the difference between you and I.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It has nothing to do with where you are from or your community and place.

No, I have broader horizons and have left the comfort of my own community and place for many things in my life.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I will be honest when I hear Irish PL supporters say 'we' and put on those English accents for the songs, my heart sinks a bit.

You're overthinking it I reckon. Stop caring about what others think of you and what you think of them. See them enjoying themselves and realise it's something they like to do. Don't let them affect your feelings like that.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Does that not make you sick?

Not in the slightest, it makes me feel joyful and proud to support Liverpool. It's not my only passion, I have a few, but once you stop thinking about the perception of others, and stop judging others yourself, you really can throw yourself into it.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I just don't get it

Honestly it might just come down to this. I hope you have something you are equally passionate about, or more passionate! But you might just not get it, and that's fine. You feel how you want to about it, and so will I. But I'm not embarrassed or feeling sick or anything like that and I'm sorry if that's how you want me to feel.

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If a Man United fan supported his local team I can see the logic in it.

Have you considered that there may not even have to be logic?

gormdubhgorm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

But people grow up in communities where the local pub shows the Premier league and the Champions League, it's discussed in schools, on buses with strangers, waiting rooms, water coolers.

It is a big part of our communities now you'd have to agree?

Yeah, it is like Nickolodean American children's programmes it has infiltrated the minds of generations.

Only unlike Nikolodean some Irish PL supporters do not grow out of it and stay buying the merch feeling a part of it.

What annoys me is people expect you to 'support' a PL league team if it is on.
And it is me who is made feel like the nutcase when I say I don't support any of them. My answer is I just want to see a good game.

gormdubhgorm

8-10 wrote: »

Have you considered that there may not even have to be logic?

Why because it is a global superbrand?

hetuzozaho

8-10 wrote: »

Have you considered that there may not even have to be logic?

Yes!

This is Ireland, that over there is England.

That was all made up at some time and "marketed" haha looks like some people have bought into it too much

OMM 0000

I'm 13 years old.

It's Saturday night and I'm at home.

Match of the Day is on.

It's fairly entertaining.

It becomes part of my weekly TV show list:

The Crystal Maze, The Mary Whitehouse Experience, Red Dwarf, Quantum Leap...

I end up becoming an Arsenal fan.

At no point did being Irish or English come into it. Literally never crossed my mind because it means nothing when it comes to entertainment.

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why because it is a global superbrand?

Think about it more in terms of which girls you fancy when you're growing up.

You have a type, sure. Does that type match everyone elses? Does it have to be logical?

And does it have to be a lass from your area :P