Why do Irish people support English teams?

8-10

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Oh it definitely will, its just the way it works.

Hopefully more Liverpool fans than City fans is more what I meant :P

They had the better season in fairness to them but kind of feel like we had the last word

Greyfox

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OK fair enough you like beautiful 'quality' football which is probably the reason why you are not supporting Burnley?

What would happen if the team you support which plays beautiful football is relegated a few divisions?

My suspicion with Irish Premier League fan is if thier team hit bad times (successive relegation's) they would leave 'thier team' quicker than a rat from a sinking ship.

There not playing beautiful football at the moment. I would still support them and I would still tell people who ask that there the team I support. I believe in this life you can change your wife or religion but you cannot change your football team once you’ve fully committed to one (I.e went from been a casual fan to a real supporter). Admittedly I personally would be watching my team less but I would still support them and if I miss a match I would always get the result/match report but this would also happen (to a lesser extent) with many LOI fans.

I have a friend who follows Leeds and another that follows Villa, over the last few years they both still watched there teams just as often as they did when they were in the Premiership, both teams still have supporters in Ireland so the evidence says the majority of fans wont change team as they have an emotional investment that doesn’t just go away. If a fan changes to another English team they are not real supporters.

gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

That was my team between ages of 6 and 10!

No idea how I started to follow Leeds, but probably down to Giles originally as Da used to go to internationals. I have weird memories of them including listening to the match they needed to win at Wolves in 1972 (?) to beat Derby for the league, and seeing the FA cup final in 1970 when I was 6!

Stopped being interested gradually as Da and uncle brought us to see the Dubs and then Rovers, and one of uncles knowing Mick Leech through Mick playing gaelic football with Good Counsel during the Summer. True story.

So it was the local connection, and just the sheer magic of being in Croke Park when Dubs were playing.

So, kind of arguing from both sides. Yes, I see how people form attachments to English and Scottish teams, but I don't think anything matches the real life connection with your local team, be it Dubs hurlers, Dundalk, Torquay, Connacht rugby. Whatever.

I can only really speak from a GAA context. Supporting the Dublin footballers when it was more hard luck stories/mismanagement than anything.

I suppose I really started to get interested in the Dublin hurlers properly when I started following the dub hurler minors over 15 years ago. I could see there was development there, improvement.
I remember a sneering Kilkenny supporter (who were in senior) saying when the Dubs were doing a lap of honour 'You would swear they won a senior all-ireland'.
It annoyed me I said 'that is thier All-Ireland, what you be like if youse won a game of football?'


Then of course there was the Hurling League win in 2011 a real memorable day unexpected. The same with the Senior Leinster final win a few years later v Galway. Tense the Dubs were expected to fold Galway had Joe Canning etc.

My point is that I almost feel sorry for the Irish PL supporter.
By supporting teams that are already top of the tree they do not get to see a team built organically from a low base.
They are already one of the top sides in the sport.
Where is the fun and joy in that?

Look at the joy those non-league supporters get when thier team beats a big side Sutton v Leeds etc.

The Irish Premier League supporter can never get that feeling of thier team upsetting the odds, triumph against adversity.

They can never appreciate victory over a local rival - like when Westmeath beat Meath a few years ago in football. I saw grown men crying from Westmeath. It was not even a final!

The Irish PL supporter really misses out in that sense.

Success for a real supporter of a team is all relative.
Survival or beating a local rival etc.
It not all about getting into Europe or silverware.

Deebles McBeebles

8-10 wrote: »

Hopefully more Liverpool fans than City fans is more what I meant :P

All those 16 year olds with their Silva jerseys have to grow up and learn about the owners at some stage so long term, I reckon you're safe

By the way, those 7 stars in my sig are only there since this week to annoy your lot :pac:

D14Rugby

8-10 wrote: »

• Parents supported them
• Successful at the time/glory
• Irish players playing for them
• On tv
• Came over for a friendly when I was a lad
• Power of advertising
• Family from the area

Loads of valid reasons. Hopefully this season brings about a new generation of Liverpool fans.

I don't think most of them are valid at all. Parents maybe if the parent is from the clubs area, family from the area to an extent but the others not really "valid" reasons. And every single one comes back to the club being successful with good marketing really, its a shallow existence.

On the whole following clubs when they're not successful thing I'll just refer everyone to 2002 when you couldn't go out in Dublin without seeing a Leeds shirt from that year, now odds are you see one a year at best, you'll occasionally see a retro one at 5 a side but if you ask most of these lads that were die hard Leeds fans to name a starting 11 they'd seriously struggle.

gormdubhgorm

8-10 wrote: »

There's no such thing as this "real fan" except in the unwritten rules of people who care about what other people do with their lives.

Anyone wearing a Liverpool shirt is fine by me whatever their reasons - I consider them a fan/supporter

But they might be wearing it because they just like the jersey,
I saw a fella wearing a 'James' Colombian jersey in the gym yesterday. He was not Colombian!
I doubt he supported Colombia or even went there in his life.

Deebles McBeebles

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But they might be wearing it because they just like the jersey,
I saw a fella wearing a 'James' Colombian jersey in the gym yesterday. He was not Colombian!
I doubt he supported Colombia or even went there in his life.

That's true, plenty of jerseys are bought because they look good, did it myself when I was a young lad. Always bought my own clubs jersey too though, no matter how ugly it was.

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But they might be wearing it because they just like the jersey

Still fine! That money still gets back to the club. Even if it's a fake you're walking around advertising the club. It's all supporting us.

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But they might be wearing it because they just like the jersey,
I saw a fella wearing a 'James' Colombian jersey in the gym yesterday. He was not Colombian!
I doubt he supported Colombia or even went there in his life.

8-10 wrote: »

Still fine! That money still gets back to the club. Even if it's a fake you're walking around advertising the club. It's all supporting us.

I didn't know there were Colombians on boards.ie.
Fair play!

Seriously though.
You said previously that if they wore a jersey of your club you would consider them a fan.
But they are not a fan if they were it as just a fashion accessory are they?
I saw another Irish fella in an Ethiopian jersey one day. (I aksed him what it was)
He got it on holiday there.

It is the same with those supporting PL clubs in many countries it is more an item to have rather than a team to follow.
Plus a lot of Irish Premier League supporters kind of grow out of the team they used to 'support' when they were young fellas. Especially, if the success fades as quickly as it arrives.

I bet there were a few young fellas in Leicester jerseys when they won the league, or Wigan jerseys when they won the FA cup.
Which were then quietly put away and never to be spoken about again, fairly quickly.

It is much easier for Arsenal/Liverpool/Man United PL supporters to continue thier support as there are many others in the same boat as them.
So they can develop an almost 'ex-pat' club community as there are large numbers of those followers in Ireland.
They can continue the 'banter' in the pubs etc
But those Wigan/Leicester/Blackburn Rovers (Irish PL /former PL) fans don't have a hope of sticking with it.
When it fades, it fades fast.
The numbers are much smaller they are distant geographically in another country.

Plus Man City just won the treble...

Omackeral

If family in the area was a big reason you should have a lot more QPR and Birmingham City jerseys waltzing around. They're not really all that successful though...

odyssey06

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can only really speak from a GAA context. Supporting the Dublin footballers when it was more hard luck stories/mismanagement than anything.

I suppose I really started to get interested in the Dublin hurlers properly when I started following the dub hurler minors over 15 years ago. I could see there was development there, improvement.
I remember a sneering Kilkenny supporter (who were in senior) saying when the Dubs were doing a lap of honour 'You would swear they won a senior all-ireland'.
It annoyed me I said 'that is thier All-Ireland, what you be like if youse won a game of football?'

Then of course there was the Hurling League win in 2011 a real memorable day unexpected. The same with the Senior Leinster final win a few years later v Galway. Tense the Dubs were expected to fold Galway had Joe Canning etc.

My point is that I almost feel sorry for the Irish PL supporter.
By supporting teams that are already top of the tree they do not get to see a team built organically from a low base.
They are already one of the top sides in the sport.
Where is the fun and joy in that?

Look at the joy those non-league supporters get when thier team beats a big side Sutton v Leeds etc.

The Irish Premier League supporter can never get that feeling of thier team upsetting the odds, triumph against adversity.

They can never appreciate victory over a local rival - like when Westmeath beat Meath a few years ago in football. I saw grown men crying from Westmeath. It was not even a final!

The Irish PL supporter really misses out in that sense.

Success for a real supporter of a team is all relative.
Survival or beating a local rival etc.
It not all about getting into Europe or silverware.

Upsetting the odds, triumphing over adversity can happen at every level of the game.
Case in point: Liverpool 4-0 Barcelona, UEFA Champion's League, Tuesday 7th May 2019.

None of this has anything to do with an Irish PL supporter, you are talking about supporting an underdog versus a favourite, ignoring that LOI teams can be favourites too.

By your logic, a Barcelona season ticket holder would also miss out on that scene.
Or a Kilkenny hurling fan.

odyssey06

D14Rugby wrote: »

I don't think most of them are valid at all. Parents maybe if the parent is from the clubs area, family from the area to an extent but the others not really "valid" reasons. And every single one comes back to the club being successful with good marketing really, its a shallow existence.
On the whole following clubs when they're not successful thing I'll just refer everyone to 2002 when you couldn't go out in Dublin without seeing a Leeds shirt from that year, now odds are you see one a year at best, you'll occasionally see a retro one at 5 a side but if you ask most of these lads that were die hard Leeds fans to name a starting 11 they'd seriously struggle.

Rubbish. They are all as valid as "where your dad shagged your mam decades ago". A kid picking a team at 7 cos they like the colour of a team jersey or a particular player at least made a conscious choice. Following your local team is in many respects a brain dead activity.

As if GAA or LOI team or professional rugby club fan numbers don't go up and down as the teams have good or bad seasons or get relegated.

odyssey06

Omackeral wrote: »

If family in the area was a big reason you should have a lot more QPR and Birmingham City jerseys waltzing around. They're not really all that successful though...

Why are there more Bohemians fans than Home Farm fans? Where did all the Drumcondra FC fans go?

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Seriously though.
You said previously that if they wore a jersey of your club you would consider them a fan.
But they are not a fan if they were it as just a fashion accessory are they?

No but I'm not going to assume that that's why they're wearing it - I wouldn't know any difference than there's a supporter of the club walking around wearing a jersey, I think it's grand. If he comes up and says "I don't support these I just like the jersey" I'm not going to say "well I consider you as one" am I?

I'm just assuming he's wearing it for a reason and that reason is that he wants to support the team. So I'm happy about that.

8-10

odyssey06 wrote: »

Upsetting the odds, triumphing over adversity can happen at every level of the game.
Case in point: Liverpool 4-0 Barcelona, UEFA Champion's League, Tuesday 7th May 2019.

One of the best nights of my life supporting football, if not number 1

gormdubhgorm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Upsetting the odds, triumphing over adversity can happen at every level of the game.
Case in point: Liverpool 4-0 Barcelona, UEFA Champion's League, Tuesday 7th May 2019.

None of this has anything to do with an Irish PL supporter, you are talking about supporting an underdog versus a favourite, ignoring that LOI teams can be favourites too.

By your logic, a Barcelona season ticket holder would also miss out on that scene.
Or a Kilkenny hurling fan.

That is not PL the last time I checked that is Champions League.
A super massive global brand, a competition arguably great in prestige than the World Cup in international football.
Although Copa Libertadores is massive in South America.



Of course it has something to do with being an Irish PL supporter they pick the massive successful teams ahead of all others. The global brand.

If a Barcelona fan and Kilkenny fan were local they would really get the sense of being a fan.
The banter with local rivals Waterford, Espanyol or the Madrid teams.
How many Kilkenny fans would support Waterford, thier house could even be on the border!

A LOI fan would pick thier local side/nearest side etc.
They would be less inclined just to pick the top team of the time than Irish PL supports would.
It is more organic and real.

D14Rugby

odyssey06 wrote: »

Rubbish. They are all as valid as "where your dad shagged your mam decades ago". A kid picking a team at 7 cos they like the colour of a team jersey or a particular player at least made a conscious choice. Following your local team is in many respects a brain dead activity.

As if GAA or LOI team or professional rugby club fan numbers don't go up and down as the teams have good or bad seasons or get relegated.

No they're really not, it's a lot less conscious than you're saying, if a kid picks Man United because they like the colour red why don't they support Walsall? And supporting a club isn't supposed to be a conscious decision where you sit down and weigh up pros and cons of supporting a club, it's supposed to be as Bobby Robson described in the quote I posted a few pages back, it's the falling in love with the magic of every second week heading to the ground with your dad, seeing the floodlights in the distance, walking up the steps and the pitch appearing in front of you, going to the shops the next day and seeing the goalscorer getting the newspaper. That's football, that's loving a club, supporting a club because they're successful when your 7 and making up some bull**** reason a decade later like some Irish lad played for them when really all it was was you saw their name plastered all over the place, in the news, on TV, on stickers, in shops and we're basically brainwashed by marketing into supporting them.

Yes numbers go up and down with form, that's life people like to win but that's not the problem, the problem isn't people having a passing interest in football getting more interested when their local team do well, the problem is people claiming they are die hard fans who just love football that are really in denial that they are in fact just glory hunters.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Why are there more Bohemians fans than Home Farm fans? Where did all the Drumcondra FC fans go?

This has been explained to you already.

gormdubhgorm

8-10 wrote: »

One of the best nights of my life supporting football, if not number 1

But that is not Premier League that is the global world brand thing to its highest level.
There is nowhere to go after that.
Would you not feel like you are cheating yourfeld as a fan who is not local by attaching yourself to it?
You could have chosen any English club but you chose Liverpool an already successful club/global brand. There are about 7000 clubs in England in divisions
It was never going to be Marine FC in Merseyside.

Personally if it was me I would feel guilty and embarrassed/guilty by saying 'we' beat Barca etc.
Which is why I would never be able to bring myself to support a foreign club.
It would feel like I am wearing someone else's clothes and stealing someone else's culture/history.

I am not really into Rugby, might go to the odd Ireland game for the novelty once in a blue moon.

But when Ireland/Leinster started doing well I refused to suddenly start 'supporting' them because they were doing well.
I would view myself as the worst type of 'fan' a fraud.
That is how I feel about it anyway.

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But that is not Premier League that is the global world brand thing to its highest level.
There is nowhere to go after that.
Would you not feel like you are cheating yourfeld as a fan who is not local by attaching yourself to it?
You could have chosen any English club but you chose Liverpool an already successful club/global brand. There are about 7000 clubs in England in divisions
It was never going to be Marine FC in Merseyside.

Personally if it was me I would feel guilty and embarrassed/guilty by saying 'we' beat Barca etc.
Which is why I would never be able to bring myself to support a foreign club.
It would feel like I am wearing someone else's clothes and stealing someone else's culture/history.

I never said it was Premier League

Would you not feel like you are cheating yourfeld as a fan who is not local by attaching yourself to it? - Not in the slightest!

You could have chosen any English club but you chose Liverpool an already successful club/global brand - Yup

Personally if it was me I would feel guilty and embarrassed/guilty by saying 'we' beat Barca etc. - and I'm completely fine with you feeling that way. I feel nothing but pride in Liverpool and the achievement that night

It would feel like I am wearing someone else's clothes and stealing someone else's culture/history - it's not for everyone, nobody's telling you to support a successful English team! Go do something else you're interested in.

That night, atmosphere alone, made it incredible. We don't get many nights on earth when we get to feel that sort of joy. Find out what does that for you and go do it

D14Rugby

You know I genuinely feel pity for those that try put the LOI down, they'll never know the feeling of the buzz of attending games week in week out with friends and family, they'll never get to experience the making displays or coming up with new songs, never get to see their idols just wandering around and being approachable, won't experience true lows that make the highs so much sweeter, seeing someone go from being brought to games as a kid and playing at half time to playing European football for the club they love, never sit down next to an old lad who's been going to games since the 40s and will talk your ear off with stories, never have a pint with their favourite player, never experience the true buzz of a rivalry (the last Rovers Bohs games and the Twigg derby being two examples that are unmatched in the EPL since). And there's so much more that these "true football fans" are missing out on and they'll never know because "it's not on telly and it's cold", and for that I pitty them.

8-10

D14Rugby wrote: »

never sit down next to an old lad who's been going to games since the 40s and will talk your ear off with stories

Pretty sure everybody experiences that at all levels of the sport!

D14Rugby

8-10 wrote: »

Pretty sure everybody experiences that at all levels of the sport!

Not if you're in a pub in Dublin watching a match in England you dont.

And even if you do fly over odds are the person beside you is a fellow tourist

8-10

D14Rugby wrote: »

Not if you're in a pub in Dublin watching a match in England you dont

Not sure what pubs you go to then! But I meant in the stand

gormdubhgorm

8-10 wrote: »

I never said it was Premier League

Would you not feel like you are cheating yourfeld as a fan who is not local by attaching yourself to it? - Not in the slightest!

You could have chosen any English club but you chose Liverpool an already successful club/global brand - Yup

Personally if it was me I would feel guilty and embarrassed/guilty by saying 'we' beat Barca etc. - and I'm completely fine with you feeling that way. I feel nothing but pride in Liverpool and the achievement that night

It would feel like I am wearing someone else's clothes and stealing someone else's culture/history - it's not for everyone, nobody's telling you to support a successful English team! Go do something else you're interested in.

That night, atmosphere alone, made it incredible. We don't get many nights on earth when we get to feel that sort of joy. Find out what does that for you and go do it

It sounds more like seeing any massive band at a concert to me.
I am no fan of Coldplay put the fans really seem to get a buzz out of raising thier phones in the air. Like Liverpool do with the scarfs

(Malaysia XI v Liverpool eleven friendly - tour of South East Asia 2015)



You pick the band, you pick the team 'team shopping'.

From my point of view you don't chose the team, the team chooses you.
You seem to be from the other way around completely.
It seems like more of a commodity to get first, rather than a natural love of the team. It's my area my town etc.

D14Rugby

8-10 wrote: »

Not sure what pubs you go to then! But I meant in the stand

Sorry but you go to pubs that have people watching an English team that have been and still are attending their matches since the 40s? Does this pub have a time machine. As I said odds are in the stands in anfield the person beside you is a fellow tourist.

8-10

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

From my point of view you don't chose the team, the team chooses you.
You seem to be from the other way around completely.
It seems like more of a commodity to get first, rather than a natural love of the team. It's my area my town etc.

Yeah we have different viewpoints. My main point though is that the reason shouldn't matter so much. What matters is supporting the team and experiencing nights like that Barcelona game. I'm sure whatever your passion is you experienced something similar in your life - I hope you did anyway because it was euphoric!

Granadino

A Spanish person asked me the same thing recently. I suppose my only answer was that we don't have a professional league in Ireland, and that there is a long history of emigration to certain UK cities and Irish players joining certain clubs in the UK.
But someone in Ireland who supported Verona or Atalanta or Real Betis would be seen as a bit odd or left field. To me, it's no different than supporting Utd or Spurs etc. All foreign teams to me.
I used to support Man Utd, then just lost interest in the whole thing around 16 or 17. It's all very predictable across Europe too. I'd nearly get more enjoyment out of watching the Championship as there always seems to be more of a spread of teams who can get promoted.
I've lost interest in football. I'd watch it, but wouldn't go out of my way to watch. Seeing how grown men act like chimps / kids is also pathetic.
I went to my first game of pro basketball recently in Spain, and it was way better than any football game in terms of entertainment.
What really makes me laugh is lads in Ireland going on with the "we" stuff.... Seriously like...

8-10

D14Rugby wrote: »

As I said odds are in the stands in anfield the person beside you is a fellow tourist.

There's all sorts at Anfield, those going for decades, kids from the local area, supporters from overseas, people who got a free ticket through a sponsor, Irish lads going for years. But when the whistle goes it doesn't really matter. You're all there for the team.

gormdubhgorm

D14Rugby wrote: »

You know I genuinely feel pity for those that try put the LOI down, they'll never know the feeling of the buzz of attending games week in week out with friends and family, they'll never get to experience the making displays or coming up with new songs, never get to see their idols just wandering around and being approachable, won't experience true lows that make the highs so much sweeter, seeing someone go from being brought to games as a kid and playing at half time to playing European football for the club they love, never sit down next to an old lad who's been going to games since the 40s and will talk your ear off with stories, never have a pint with their favourite player, never experience the true buzz of a rivalry (the last Rovers Bohs games and the Twigg derby being two examples that are unmatched in the EPL since). And there's so much more that these "true football fans" are missing out on and they'll never know because "it's not on telly and it's cold", and for that I pitty them.

I would agree 100% no matter what the sport or level.
Surely you support your own first?
How can you relate to some team that are so far detached from you that they are in another county?

Maybe I just have an idealistic sense of it
Obviously marketing/branding and the internet has killed all that.
I suppose the fact we are here waffling on this forum about soccer from all over the world - just shows it is more global village now.
Not local in the original sense.

D14Rugby

8-10 wrote: »

There's all sorts at Anfield, those going for decades, kids from the local area, supporters from overseas, people who got a free ticket through a sponsor, Irish lads going for years. But when the whistle goes it doesn't really matter. You're all there for the team.

You're not though because if Liverpool ever got relegated those overseas fans, those free ticket fans, those Irish lads I hate to break it to you but they won't be there. People are there for the Instagram posts, to be able to say they were there, they're not actually there for the club.