Sex education in schools!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What part of “I don’t think it’s appropriate in any context for an adult to be talking to children about masturbation”, are you having difficulty with, specifically?

Unless you’re one of these idiots, masturbabation is an activity you keep to yourself.

Such a draconian and severely oppressed view of something so natural. What's your issue with it exactly?

If you teach your poor kids your outdated views on the matter, you may cause them damage in the long run.

Topics relating to sex should not be oppressed, your child should not feel embarrassed or that particular sexual acts are wrong.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Masturbation happens to be one of those things I think is inappropriate for discussion with other people.

Why? What's wrong with discussing it? Is it ok to discuss other sexual acts with other people? What's the difference?

One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, they're going to find out some way.

That said, it shouldn't be an issue. Just a case of i's natural, virtually everyone does it, do it in private, don't feel bad about it.

Reduce the chances of guilt or hangups beacuse that is what week mess with a child's head.

Nobody’s making an issue of it only those people who think other people need to be educated about it. It doesn’t generally come up in any other context.

Hotblack Desiato

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That’s precisely why we have the current education system we do now

The *only* reason we have such a religion-dominated education system is an accident of history - a relic of church domination of all aspects of our society and which they are desperate to hang on to.

and then the schools, through the Board of Management in consultation with the parents

LOL that's a good one.

Even an ET school (Castleknock IIRC) totally ignored the wishes of the parents for years when they continued to get Accord in to teach religion-influenced RSE against their wishes.
If you think RCC controlled schools are going to allow RSE the bishop doesn't like you've another think coming.
Parents are not stakeholders in relgious-run schools in any meaningful sense. They just want parents to do what they're told, pay whatever fees they ask for and shut up. Look at how they carry on when parents try to exercise their constitutional right to opt out of religion.

Ultimately the State has to have regard for the rights of the parents or guardians of children as the primary educators of their children, as opposed to lobby groups with their own ideas regarding relationships and sexuality that they wish to impose upon children contrary to their parents values.

That's the problem, it's the nutty lobby groups which are in control. But because we call these nutty lobby groups "churches" they can do whatever they like.

Of course you're also ignoring that parents have the right to withdraw their children from RSE same as any other subject.

Hotblack Desiato

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I understand of course that other people see nothing inappropriate about discussing their masturbatory habits with other people, but it’s not something I personally would be encouraging children to discuss with adults, nor would I be comfortable with adults discussing their masturbatory habits with children.

Better get in your time machine, go back to 1986 and tell that to the Christian Brother who led our retreat.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Nobody’s making an issue of it only those people who think other people need to be educated about it. It doesn’t generally come up in any other context.

It not so much educated about it, it's a case of debunking the myths about it that will cause issues later on in life. Like I said, if it takes longer than two minutes, someone's overthinking it.

Insect Overlord

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It not so much educated about it, it's a case of debunking the myths about it that will cause issues later on in life. Like I said, if it takes longer than two minutes, someone's overthinking it.

Sometimes it's worth including a bit on "Don't stick that in there!" in case someone ends up in hospital with a blocked orifice, or getting too close to an apple pie.

One eyed Jack

Pearl Itchy Tailor wrote: »

Such a draconian and severely oppressed view of something so natural. What's your issue with it exactly?

Some things are appropriate to discuss, some things aren’t appropriate to discuss. I have an issue with other people who aren’t the children’s parents feeling that children need to have discussions about sex with them. I don’t think that’s appropriate.

Pearl Itchy Tailor wrote: »

If you teach your poor kids your outdated views on the matter, you may cause them damage in the long run.

It’s because my views are generally the prevailing view in modern society that people such as yourself are of the opinion that they are outdated. I certainly don’t feel I was damaged, and I would suggest that’s something you’ll have to work through before you project your resentment upon children that aren’t your own.

Pearl Itchy Tailor wrote: »

Topics relating to sex should not be oppressed, your child should not feel embarrassed or that particular sexual acts are wrong.

As I suggested earlier - context. I’m perfectly fine with telling my child that some topics aren’t appropriate for discussion. If he’s embarrassed by that it’s ok, if he tries to push it when I’ve already said the topic is inappropriate, then he’s behaving inappropriately because he has no consideration for the fact that I’ve said the topic is inappropriate. That’s how children learn their social cues, and I completely disagree with you that a child shouldn’t feel embarrassed or that particular sexual acts are wrong. Kinda reminds me of a friend of mine who was into the whole fisting malarkey, and I wasn’t, hence we remained friends. One day she introduced me to her new boyfriend who extended his hand to shake mine, I told him no thanks. He knew then I knew exactly where that hand had been and I wasn’t comfortable with it. He was embarrassed by that, but that was his issue, not mine.

Pearl Itchy Tailor wrote: »

Why? What's wrong with discussing it? Is it ok to discuss other sexual acts with other people? What's the difference?

It’s as though you think people aren’t entitled to have standards or something? How do you actually function in day to day society having to live with the compulsion to inform people about your sex life and realising that you can’t because they might consider it inappropriate? Or do you actually care about how you might make other people uncomfortable? That whole expectation that people should have consideration for you goes both ways in life. Perhaps you have yet to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around you and your need to discuss your sex life with anyone who is unfortunate enough to be a captive audience, like a classroom full of children.

GreenandRed

'How do you actually function in day to day society having to live with the compulsion to inform people about your sex life'

Calm down with the assumptions there. Compulsion???

Tordelback

One eyed Jack wrote: »

. Kinda reminds me of a friend of mine who was into the whole fisting malarkey, and I wasn’t, hence we remained friends. One day she introduced me to her new boyfriend who extended his hand to shake mine, I told him no thanks. He knew then I knew exactly where that hand had been and I wasn’t comfortable with it. He was embarrassed by that, but that was his issue, not mine.

What a complicated life you must lead, evaluating what each person you meet may have touched or not touched before shaking their hand. Farmers, morticians, butchers, cleaners, people who masturbate themselves or others... Must be a nightmare.

Tell you what though, if comprehensive sex education could change attitudes like that, bring it on.

One eyed Jack

Tordelback wrote: »

What a complicated life you must lead, evaluating what each person you meet may have touched or not touched before shaking their hand. Farmers, morticians, butchers, cleaners, people who masturbate themselves or others... Must be a nightmare.

Tell you what though, if comprehensive sex education could change attitudes like that, bring it on.

It’s really not the nightmare you think it is. I manage just fine.

One eyed Jack

GreenandRed wrote: »

'How do you actually function in day to day society having to live with the compulsion to inform people about your sex life'

Calm down with the assumptions there. Compulsion???

You appear to have snipped my question short, which would have provided context for why I used the word compulsion. I don’t imagine for a minute that poster actually isn’t aware that people generally don’t want to hear about their sex life.

osarusan

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Kinda reminds me of a friend of mine who was into the whole fisting malarkey, and I wasn’t, hence we remained friends. One day she introduced me to her new boyfriend who extended his hand to shake mine, I told him no thanks. He knew then I knew exactly where that hand had been and I wasn’t comfortable with it. He was embarrassed by that, but that was his issue, not mine.

Hahahahaha, another incredibly unlikely but conveniently placed anecdote.

Never a shortage of them on boards.

One eyed Jack

osarusan wrote: »

Hahahahaha, another incredibly unlikely but conveniently placed anecdote.

Never a shortage of them on boards.

It’s a fair point, I don’t imagine such activities would be all that commonplace, let alone that they’d come up that often in general conversation.

From the way some people are talking on here it’s as though they have a conversation about their masturbation habits with their co-workers over morning coffee, which I would think is also incredibly unlikely.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s because my views are generally the prevailing view in modern society that people such as yourself are of the opinion that they are outdated. I certainly don’t feel I was damaged, and I would suggest that’s something you’ll have to work through before you project your resentment upon children that aren’t your own.

Projection. Also, it's ok to discuss it with my own children then? Do I have your permission for that?

You are moving the goalposts. First you had an issue with adults discussing it with children, now it's adults discussing the topic with children that are not their own.

As I suggested earlier - context. I’m perfectly fine with telling my child that some topics aren’t appropriate for discussion. If he’s embarrassed by that it’s ok, if he tries to push it when I’ve already said the topic is inappropriate, then he’s behaving inappropriately because he has no consideration for the fact that I’ve said the topic is inappropriate. That’s how children learn their social cues, and I completely disagree with you that a child shouldn’t feel embarrassed or that particular sexual acts are wrong. Kinda reminds me of a friend of mine who was into the whole fisting malarkey, and I wasn’t, hence we remained friends. One day she introduced me to her new boyfriend who extended his hand to shake mine, I told him no thanks. He knew then I knew exactly where that hand had been and I wasn’t comfortable with it. He was embarrassed by that, but that was his issue, not mine.

Wow, that poor poor child. I genuinely feel sorry for him. Suppressing his wishes to speak about something personal because you have an immature approach to it. It's kinda ironic that your first paragraph accusingly states that I have resentment, and then you post this.

And you can tell for certain that this guy was embarrassed for that specific reason and not the cringe encounter he had with you? I imagine it's the later.

It’s as though you think people aren’t entitled to have standards or something? How do you actually function in day to day society having to live with the compulsion to inform people about your sex life and realising that you can’t because they might consider it inappropriate? Or do you actually care about how you might make other people uncomfortable? That whole expectation that people should have consideration for you goes both ways in life. Perhaps you have yet to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around you and your need to discuss your sex life with anyone who is unfortunate enough to be a captive audience, like a classroom full of children.

Yea, this here is complete and utter rubbish. Baiting and trolling is all that paragraph is.

GreenandRed

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You appear to have snipped my question short, which would have provided context for why I used the word compulsion. I don’t imagine for a minute that poster actually isn’t aware that people generally don’t want to hear about their sex life.

You're intellect doesn't allow you to see bold text? I and most posters can see your context. I'll assume you're a troll. Try getting out more like a good chap.

One eyed Jack

Pearl Itchy Tailor wrote: »

Projection. Also, it's ok to discuss it with my own children then? Do I have your permission for that?

I’m not going to accuse you of baiting and trolling when you’re asking me what you do or don’t have permission to teach your own child. Discuss whatever you want with your own children, I really don’t give a shìte.

Pearl Itchy Tailor wrote: »

You are moving the goalposts. First you had an issue with adults discussing it with children, now it's adults discussing the topic with children that are not their own.

No goalpost moving there. The thread topic is about sex education in schools. I don’t have any issue with parents discussing whatever they want with their own children, that’s entirely their own business. Where it becomes an issue is with adults who are not the children’s parents, who want the children to discuss sex with them. I don’t think that’s appropriate. I’m not sure I can make it any simpler.

Pearl Itchy Tailor wrote: »

Wow, that poor poor child. I genuinely feel sorry for him. Suppressing his wishes to speak about something personal because you have an immature approach to it. It's kinda ironic that your first paragraph accusingly states that I have resentment, and then you post this.

As I said to another poster already- nobody needs your sympathy. I’m really not sure what you think parenting involves but for me it involves teaching my child about what’s appropriate and what isn’t, and being mature means when corrected, being able to learn from the experience.

And you can tell for certain that this guy was embarrassed for that specific reason and not the cringe encounter he had with you? I imagine it's the later.

Could have been the cringe encounter too now you mention it. He didn’t seem to say a whole lot afterwards and they weren’t together for all that long after so I never really got to know him. First impressions and all that. I have no doubt it was the same for him.

Yea, this here is complete and utter rubbish. Baiting and trolling is all that paragraph is.

Well any time you want to have a serious conversation about relationships and sex education in Irish schools, by all means we can have that conversation. If you just want to continue pretending you don’t understand why anyone would have a problem with the proposed curriculum, then you can do that too.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s really not the nightmare you think it is. I manage just fine.

It's not just about you.

One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's not just about you.

That posters comment was about me?

Tordelback wrote: »

What a complicated life you must lead, evaluating what each person you meet may have touched or not touched before shaking their hand. Farmers, morticians, butchers, cleaners, people who masturbate themselves or others... Must be a nightmare.

That’s why I responded that it’s not the nightmare they think it must be. I manage just fine.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That posters comment was about me?

.

You developed dome hangups, others didn't. You're comfortable with some aspects of sexuality, others aren't.

The whole aspect of people relate to other people's sexuality is not just about what you are and are not comfortable with.

Hotblack Desiato

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s because my views are generally the prevailing view in modern society that people such as yourself are of the opinion that they are outdated.

What?!?!?

Your views are outdated and are NOT the prevailing view in society.

He knew then I knew exactly where that hand had been and I wasn’t comfortable with it. He was embarrassed by that, but that was his issue, not mine.

:pac:

I dare say every sexually active male or lesbian woman has put their fingers into a vagina, better not shake hands with anyone at all.

Hotblack Desiato

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don’t think that’s appropriate. I’m not sure I can make it any simpler.

So exercise your right to withdraw your child then.

You don't get to decide what is appropriate for everyone else, though.

One eyed Jack

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You developed dome hangups, others didn't. You're comfortable with some aspects of sexuality, others aren't.

The whole aspect of people relate to other people's sexuality is not just about what you are and are not comfortable with.

I’m not really getting what you’re trying to say here to be honest. Earlier you were talking about reducing the guilt of hangups because they mess with a child’s head, then you’re suggesting I have hang ups as though I have anything to be ashamed of? I don’t.

And of course if I’m talking about myself, you bet it’s entirely about what I am and am not comfortable with from my perspective. That’s not having hangups, it’s a difference in standards between what either of us considers appropriate or inappropriate. Perhaps it’s yourself you should be telling that it’s not just about you and what you are or aren’t comfortable with.

One eyed Jack

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So exercise your right to withdraw your child then.

You don't get to decide what is appropriate for everyone else, though.

Well that’s true of course, but I know that it’s a decision that’s made by the Board of Management in consultation with the parents. That’s generally the way it works anyway, and like I said earlier, it’s not perfect -


Parents protest use of Catholic agency to deliver sex education in Educate Together school

eviltwin

Just my two cent as a parent. I see sex education as health education and I believe its important to share that in an age appropriate manner with children.

The decision what to include or leave out should be based on best practice not on religious or agenda driven grounds.

I think sex is wonderful and sex ed should be sex positive and be relevant to all students regardless of gender and orientation.

Goodshape

It's funny but attitudes like yours, One eyed Jack, which treat discussion of sex and sexuality as simply 'inappropriate' and/or forbidden, are exactly why I think more and better education around sex and sexuality in school is so important – and also why I think it shouldn't simply be left to the parents to pass on their own (demonstrably outdated and ill-informed) knowledge.


Not shaking hands with a man because he might have pleasured his wife? What sort of nonsense is that?

Harvey Weinstein

The Journal.ie 'fact check' in May this year stated that the UN guidelines on sex education had no role in informing the bill or the debate in the Oireachtas.

Yet Caroline West in the Examiner today tells us the proposals from the Oireachtas are in line with the UN guidelines.

Fake news or just a misunderstanding?

Journal


Examiner

Midster

agrostar wrote: »

Sex education as with all education should start at home with parents talking to their children and explaining how to live, ask for consent ect. Too much is expected to be taught in schools. Parents need to talk to their children and not expect others to do everything for them even if it is a little embarrassing or awkward.

Omg!! I would have literally died if my mum and dad tried talking to me about sex, I got all the info I ever needed from light school teaching, from friends and from porn.

Porn is under rated as an educational tool, personally if you want to learn about sex it really is the best form of education available.

Although, it could be more deliberately educating, I don’t see why there aren’t more vlogs on these easily accessible porn sights, a top porn actress teaching inexperienced boys how to please a woman, and a male porn actor teaching the girls how to please a man would do the trick.

Parents should never ever embarrass there children by even attempting the sex talk.

One eyed Jack

Goodshape wrote: »

It's funny but attitudes like yours, One eyed Jack, which treat discussion of sex and sexuality as simply 'inappropriate' and/or forbidden, are exactly why I think more and better education around sex and sexuality in school is so important – and also why I think it shouldn't simply be left to the parents to pass on their own (demonstrably outdated and ill-informed) knowledge.

Cool, as long as you’re not trying to force what you think, onto people who don’t think the same way you do, I’m ok with you thinking whatever you like.

Goodshape wrote: »

Not shaking hands with a man because he might have pleasured his wife? What sort of nonsense is that?

Exactly as nonsensical as you made it sound, we’re agreed on that at least.

Goodshape

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Cool, as long as you’re not trying to force what you think, onto people who don’t think the same way you do, I’m ok with you thinking whatever you like.

Great. So we'll teach the facts of sex and sexuality in school, and you and I can both keep our "thinking" to ourselves.

Exactly as nonsensical as you made it sound, we’re agreed on that at least.

Hey, it's your nonsense!

Harvey Weinstein

Midster wrote: »

Omg!! I would have literally died if my mum and dad tried talking to me about sex, I got all the info I ever needed from light school teaching, from friends and from porn.

Porn is under rated as an educational tool, personally if you want to learn about sex it really is the best form of education available.

Although, it could be more deliberately educating, I don’t see why there aren’t more vlogs on these easily accessible porn sights, a top porn actress teaching inexperienced boys how to please a woman, and a male porn actor teaching the girls how to please a man would do the trick.

Parents should never ever embarrass there children by even attempting the sex talk.

Most people, except those who's minds have been thoroughly corrupted by pornography, would find this proposal utterly depraved.