Sex education in schools!

One eyed Jack

FunLover18 wrote: »

I don't think comparing porn and violent video games is the same. Sex is something we are programmed to do, it's something most people will do and want to do. Violence does not fall into that category and from an early age children are taught and learn instinctively that violence is wrong.

I wasn’t comparing porn and violent video games, I was comparing the arguments that are commonly used to explain the influence of either violence in video games or porn - that as a consequence of being exposed to them, it’s inevitable that they are the cause of an individual’s attitudes to others. The evidence of an inevitable negative influence is sketchy, at best.

I also wouldn’t agree with you that sex is something we are programmed to do, as though that’s an inevitability either. In the same way that people learn from an early age to contextualise concepts like violence, they also learn from an early age to contextualise concepts like relationships and sexuality. It’s why most people don’t commit violent sexual acts on other people, because they know that such behaviour is inappropriate and there are consequences in law if they choose to ignore what they have learned throughout their lives. It’s why those people who do commit violent sexual acts try to avoid being caught - they know there are consequences for their attitudes and actions, consequences which they try to avoid.

FunLover18 wrote: »

I'll take your word on how sex ed is currently taught with parent consultation as I'm not a parent but the fact that you don't expect an objective perspective on relationships and sex education tells me that we need one.

We don’t need an objective perspective on relationships and sex education, because there is no such thing. There’s my perspective, there’s your perspective, and neither could be considered objective. What is taught already in schools is the very basics of relationships and sex education according to the ethos of the school which is generally in line with parents values which they wish to impart to their children. It’s that context which is important in educating children, because it’s their parent or guardians are generally their children’s primary influence, and it’s their parents or guardians who are the most invested in how their children are to be educated.

I wouldn’t discount your opinion simply because you’re not a parent though, but when it comes to how I would wish for my child to be educated, it stands to reason that my opinion would carry more weight in that decision than anyone else’s. I would expect any other parent or guardian would feel the same way about their children, and naturally that’s going to mean we don’t make the same choices when it comes to our children’s education or welfare. If adults don’t understand that much, I don’t expect those adults should be in any position to educate children about diversity in society and the fact that other people exist in society who don’t share their values or perspectives.

Silentcorner

Half the problem is the level of intellect of the people trying to force whatever ideology is the flavour of the month down your kids throat, they aren't always the brightest...be they priests, feminists, gender/sexuality theorists...but they do love influencing young minds...weren't the Nazis a terror for it?

Wanderer78

Silentcorner wrote:

Half the problem is the level of intellect of the people trying to force whatever ideology is the flavour of the month down your kids throat, they aren't always the brightest...be they priests, feminists, gender/sexuality theorists...but they do love influencing young minds...weren't the Nazis a terror for it?

Ah come on now, that's a bit strong, the priests weren't that bad

Silentcorner

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Ah come on now, that's a bit strong, the priests weren't that bad

I was hoping I'd get more thanks if I included priests, I didn't have the balls to include teachers!!!

sabat

GreenandRed wrote: »

You have to be 16 to do it and 18 to watch it.

Pornography is still illegal in this country.

FunLover18

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I wasn’t comparing porn and violent video games, I was comparing the arguments that are commonly used to explain the influence of either violence in video games or porn - that as a consequence of being exposed to them, it’s inevitable that they are the cause of an individual’s attitudes to others. The evidence of an inevitable negative influence is sketchy, at best.

I also wouldn’t agree with you that sex is something we are programmed to do, as though that’s an inevitability either. In the same way that people learn from an early age to contextualise concepts like violence, they also learn from an early age to contextualise concepts like relationships and sexuality. It’s why most people don’t commit violent sexual acts on other people, because they know that such behaviour is inappropriate and there are consequences in law if they choose to ignore what they have learned throughout their lives. It’s why those people who do commit violent sexual acts try to avoid being caught - they know there are consequences for their attitudes and actions, consequences which they try to avoid.

But I think I you're comparing the effects of porn/video games on attitudes to sex/violence, I think it's important to compare those attitudes in the first place and they're very different. Sex whilst not openly talked about is something that's accepted as part of life whereas violence isn't. Therefore the effects of porn will vary and people, especially young people will take away different things in terms of what is acceptable/realistic whereas it's only the very rare person, possibly but not always suffering from some form of mental disorder, who will fail to disassociate video games from reality.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

We don’t need an objective perspective on relationships and sex education, because there is no such thing. There’s my perspective, there’s your perspective, and neither could be considered objective. What is taught already in schools is the very basics of relationships and sex education according to the ethos of the school which is generally in line with parents values which they wish to impart to their children. It’s that context which is important in educating children, because it’s their parent or guardians are generally their children’s primary influence, and it’s their parents or guardians who are the most invested in how their children are to be educated.

I wouldn’t discount your opinion simply because you’re not a parent though, but when it comes to how I would wish for my child to be educated, it stands to reason that my opinion would carry more weight in that decision than anyone else’s. I would expect any other parent or guardian would feel the same way about their children, and naturally that’s going to mean we don’t make the same choices when it comes to our children’s education or welfare. If adults don’t understand that much, I don’t expect those adults should be in any position to educate children about diversity in society and the fact that other people exist in society who don’t share their values or perspectives.

I think objective was possibly the wrong word. Obviously each parent is going to have different views on what they want their child to learn or be exposed to, so by "objective" I mean that the education system shouldn't have this protective attitude, parents should have the option to take children out of classes but I don't think the state should be overly concerned with causing "offence". So take for example sexuality, I think this should form part of the curriculum because different sexualities exist and are a fact of every day life, children are going to encounter it as an issue possibly have to go through that themselves, so to me a parent asking that it not be part of the curriculum because it offends them is akin to a parent asking for evolution to be taken out of the curriculum.

Bear in mind we're talking about children which covers a very wide age range and I'm not suggesting or advocating that any child in primary school be shown porn.

Harvey Weinstein

Here's Kate Dawson on 'this morning' speaking about her belief that 8 year old children should be taught about masturbation.

Harvey Weinstein

By the by, one of the pornographic films they suggested showing to kids in class is 'Deep Throat' the 1970s film which was one of the first pornographic 'blockbusters'

Of course as we all know, the star of Deepthroat - Linda Lovelace, was violently beaten, raped and forced to perform in the film at gunpoint by her husband, who also pimped her out and regularly raped her. She was also gang raped on occasion.

Unsurprisingly Linda Lovelace ended up as a vocal critic of pornography.

But I'm sure this info will be explained to the kids as they watch the star (who was raped and beaten into performing) sucking, excuse me...deep throating d*cks.

And by the way ladies, feminists amongst us...I'm sure you will insist that the pornos shown in class were filmed with full consent of the actors, because we know many of these girls are trafficked into countries and coerced into performing in these films.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Here's Kate Dawson on 'this morning' speaking about her belief that 8 year old children should be taught about masturbation.

Before I watch that, have you spent the last few hours researching what exactly is on the proposed syllabus for sex education? For teenagers? As opposes to what one person thinks should be there?

Simple yes or no will suffice.

Harvey Weinstein

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Before I watch that, have you spent the last few hours researching what exactly is on the proposed syllabus for sex education? For teenagers? As opposes to what one person thinks should be there?

Simple yes or no will suffice.

Yes I have, you haven't

Gatling

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Here's Kate Dawson on 'this morning' speaking about her belief that 8 year old children should be taught about masturbation.

Shock horror kids 8 and younger are known to masturbate why not educate them about it properly

Harvey Weinstein

Gatling wrote: »

Shock horror kids 8 and younger are known to masturbate why not educate them about it properly

Thats what the priests did isn't it? Showed those boys how to masturbate..

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Yes I have, you haven't

Liar.

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

By the by, one of the pornographic films they suggested showing to kids in class is 'Deep Throat' the 1970s film which was one of the first pornographic 'blockbusters'

QED

ToddyDoody

Why is sex education in no way sexy?

Gatling

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Thats what the priests did isn't it? Showed those boys how to masturbate..

Boys and girls masturbate it's got nothing to do with priests or anyone else it's a natural experience ,

Harvey Weinstein

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Liar.



QED

What am I lying about?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

What am I lying about?

This

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

H have you spent the last few hours researching what exactly is on the proposed syllabus for sex education? For teenagers? As opposes to what one person thinks should be there?

Simple yes or no will suffice.

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Yes I have

Harvey Weinstein

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This

I have all the info, whether you believe it or not is irrelevant.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

I have all the info, whether you believe it or not is irrelevant.

I'll leave you here then. Not really much point in debating with someone who pretends to have the **** he makes up.

Harvey Weinstein

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I'll leave you here then. Not really much point in debating with someone who pretends to have the **** he makes up.

What info do you require? I posted a link to a pdf earlier which is very comprehensive and covers all the actors relating to the sex ed bill, maybe you should take a look at it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

What info do you require

**** it, one last try.

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

By the by, one of the pornographic films they suggested showing to kids in class is 'Deep Throat' the 1970s film which was one of the first pornographic 'blockbusters'

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Thats what the priests did isn't it? Showed those boys how to masturbate..

Harvey Weinstein

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

**** it, one last try.

AndrewJRenko

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That’s why this whole malarkey of teaching children about masturbation, oral and the infinite aspects of relationships and sexuality in schools is a non-starter - schools simply don’t have the resources to address all the various aspects of relationships and sexuality,

Isn't it mad though how they have infinite resources available for covering stories about nailing people to the cross, and spirits impregnating young girls and all of that stuff? No shortage of time or teachers for communions and confirmations and 'end of term masses', but when it comes to a basic practical lifeskill, nah, we've no resources.

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

By the by, one of the pornographic films they suggested showing to kids in class

Who's the 'they' here? Is this anything to do with the curriculum being proposed by the NCCA, or are you just picking extreme international examples that have nothing to do with Ireland to rile people up?

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Thats what the priests did isn't it? Showed those boys how to masturbate..

No, they usually raped them - whether anally or orally. It was rape.

Harvey Weinstein

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Isn't it mad though how they have infinite resources available for covering stories about nailing people to the cross, and spirits impregnating young girls and all of that stuff? No shortage of time or teachers for communions and confirmations and 'end of term masses', but when it comes to a basic practical lifeskill, nah, we've no resources.




Who's the 'they' here? Is this anything to do with the curriculum being proposed by the NCCA, or are you just picking extreme international examples that have nothing to do with Ireland to rile people up?



No, they usually raped them - whether anally or orally. It was rape.

I'm not trying to rile anyone up, the person I'm talking about is heavily involved in formulating the new RSE syllabus. And has written several papers which were an integral part of the research in creating the new proposed course of study.

Anyway obviously many here just don't seem to get it. Some of the priests brought the boys up to their dorm and showed them pornos back in the day (happened in my school)
Now they'll just show them pornos in class..if you can't beat em join em I suppose.

Harvey Weinstein

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

You do realise that the dvd curriculum was added by the article writer from the Sun, not Dawson.

Harvey Weinstein

DubInMeath wrote: »

You do realise that the dvd curriculum was added by the article writer from the Sun, not Dawson.

Yes and Dawson endorsed the very same.

Harvey Weinstein

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Yes and Dawson endorsed the very same.

So you can post exactly where Dawson said these three specific movies should be included

Hotblack Desiato

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Yes and Dawson endorsed the very same.

Citation needed.

Harvey Weinstein

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Citation needed.

Its on her twitter..look it up.

You'll find numerous tweets endorsing showing Pornographic films to children.
You can also read many papers she authored..endorsing showing pornographic films to children.

Harvey Weinstein

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Its on her twitter..look it up.

You'll find numerous tweets endorsing showing Pornographic films to children.
You can also read many papers she authored..endorsing showing pornographic films to children.

No it's not on her Twitter.

you said

"By the by, one of the pornographic films they suggested showing to kids in class is 'Deep Throat' the 1970s film which was one of the first pornographic 'blockbusters'"

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111596067&postcount=222

Dawson never said that as you claimed, it was a suggestion by the writer from the Sun in as they put it a cheeky suggestion.