Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

bennyl10

snotboogie wrote: »

Mostly by me I've been saying for years that the current set up isn't sustainable, you can't limit Cork to four low key professional games per year in the long term given the player output, demographics and economics of the province.

You can’t put bigger games in cork, the stadium isn’t there.
PuC is not a sustainable option short or long term, we owe money on thomond, it needs the big games to get people in the gate and pay it off.
Even a ****e thomond attendance is higher than what iIP can hold.

Paying rent on a stadium, and taking money away from the main hub is lunacy

Also, as above. You are so far from the action in a GAA pitch you May as well be at home

Cookiemunster

snotboogie wrote: »

Mostly by me I've been saying for years that the current set up isn't sustainable, you can't limit Cork to four low key professional games per year in the long term given the player output, demographics and economics of the province.

Until Cork gets a bigger stadium, then the same economics you refer to will keep the bigger games in Limerick.

MP should have been expanded 18K around the same time as TP, but CCC refused planning for apartments on Munster owned land that was to be used to help finance said expansion. Then the recession hit, scuppering the plans altogether.

Although seeing as they can't pay for Thomond, it's probably not a bad thing that they don't have two stadium debts to finance.

snotboogie

bennyl10 wrote: »

You can’t put bigger games in cork, the stadium isn’t there.
PuC is not a sustainable option short or long term, we owe money on thomond, it needs the big games to get people in the gate and pay it off.
Even a ****e thomond attendance is higher than what iIP can hold.

Paying rent on a stadium, and taking money away from the main hub is lunacy

Also, as above. You are so far from the action in a GAA pitch you May as well be at home

We have no idea what money could or could not be made from a game in PUC. I see it as quite a good option, at least as a one off to test it's viability. Plenty of rugby games were played in Croke Park with no issues at all.

bennyl10

snotboogie wrote: »

We have no idea what money could or could not be made from a game in PUC. I see it as quite a good option, at least as a one off to test it's viability. Plenty of rugby games were played in Croke Park with no issues at all.

We’d be paying rent on PuC, that’s a guarantee, and the stadium bars would not be giving money to Munster. So yes it’s money out of pocket. On two huge income streams.
Leinster are the same unless the Aviva is a sell out. And they don’t have to pay back a loan on their current stadium!

Aside form the pitch being miles from the crowd there were zero issues.

Shefwedfan

bennyl10 wrote: »

You can’t put bigger games in cork, the stadium isn’t there.
PuC is not a sustainable option short or long term, we owe money on thomond, it needs the big games to get people in the gate and pay it off.
Even a ****e thomond attendance is higher than what iIP can hold.

Paying rent on a stadium, and taking money away from the main hub is lunacy

Also, as above. You are so far from the action in a GAA pitch you May as well be at home

How do you know if or if not PUC would be sustainable?

Shefwedfan

bennyl10 wrote: »

We’d be paying rent on PuC, that’s a guarantee, and the stadium bars would not be giving money to Munster. So yes it’s money out of pocket. On two huge income streams.
Leinster are the same unless the Aviva is a sell out. And they don’t have to pay back a loan on their current stadium!

Aside form the pitch being miles from the crowd there were zero issues.

How do you know they won't be getting money from the bars?

Henry Ford III

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How do you know if or if not PUC would be sustainable?

They don't.

p.s. Nor do you.

bennyl10

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How do you know they won't be getting money from the bars?

If they did it would be unheard of.
Leinster play in the Aviva, Aviva keep the money from bars.

There’s no way cork GAA/PuC would rent the stadium to an outside body and say you can have control of any of takings that our staff run.
The bar in PuC is more than likely with a outsource company who have a deal with PuC themselves. Munster wouldn’t have a say in that contract.

We’d be paying rent and getting a portion of the ticket sales, as the irfu and fai did in Croke and as Leinster do now.

This is ludicrous when Munster have a more than suitable stadium in Limerick, in which they get a hefty portion of all takings, which they have zero rent to pay on, and are still paying back!

bennyl10

Henry Ford III wrote: »

They don't.

p.s. Nor do you.

I don’t, I’m basing it purely on similar agreements with teams that play in not their own stadia

Cookiemunster

snotboogie wrote: »

We have no idea what money could or could not be made from a game in PUC. I see it as quite a good option, at least as a one off to test it's viability. Plenty of rugby games were played in Croke Park with no issues at all.

Rugby games were played at Croke Park because Lansdowne Rd was a building site. Zero rugby games have been played in Croke Park since 2010 when the Aviva opened.

Munster aren't short of a stadium. A stadium where they have their own corporate facilities and bars. A game in PUC and they will get none of the corporate or bar money, just like the IRFU didn't when they played in Croke Park.

Henry Ford III

Discussion is futile. This isn't happening.

Vinnie222

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It is 1 game.....


Do many people actually stay in Limerick after the match?


I have gone and road is full on way down and road is full on way back.

It was esimated it generate 6-8 million to the local economy last yr . Wasnt a hotel to be got , bars full . I say if you checked now they would be v little hotels left in the city for the 28th

shootermacg

It would be quite the TV spectacle though, and potentially a good thing for the Pro14.

Cookiemunster

shootermacg wrote: »

It would be quite the TV spectacle though, and potentially a good thing for the Pro14.

A full TP is quite the TV spectacle too though. As I said earlier, I'm not sure that this would sell out. Tickets for the game in Thomond are easy to get an it only sells out in the week before the match. That doesn't point to a demand for 20k extra tickets.

irelandrover

Cookiemunster wrote: »

A full TP is quite the TV spectacle too though. As I said earlier, I'm not sure that this would sell out. Tickets for the game in Thomond are easy to get an it only sells out in the week before the match. That doesn't point to a demand for 20k extra tickets.

The first year would probably sell out no problem due to the novelty of it.

snotboogie

Henry Ford III wrote: »

They don't.

p.s. Nor do you.

Absolutely. I still think it's a worthwhile experiment and I'm glad that Munster Rugby are perusing it.

Cookiemunster

snotboogie wrote: »

Absolutely. I still think it's a worthwhile experiment and I'm glad that Munster Rugby are perusing it.

Again, there is no proof that any of this is true. You have no idea if MR are persuing it or not.

Shefwedfan

Vinnie222 wrote: »

It was esimated it generate 6-8 million to the local economy last yr . Wasnt a hotel to be got , bars full . I say if you checked now they would be v little hotels left in the city for the 28th

Quick check on hotels.com and seems a few rooms knocking around

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The reason they are looking at Cork for a big fixture like this is how much the other business in the area can make out of it.

If there's any truth to this then the reason isn't for the benefit of other businesses in the area. It's because it'd financially benefit Munster. And I don't see how renting a stadium (and all the other issues besides) would make it financially more beneficial than Thomond. So I'd be amazed if this happened.

Sir Guy who smiles

snotboogie wrote: »

The examiner state that the discussions are between Munster Rugby and the commercial board of PUC, Cork GAA are not involved, make of that what you will...

I would say the commercial board of PUC approached Munster Rugby, not vice versa.
Cork GAA may not be directly involved with this proposed match but they are the reason why the commercial board have to think outside the box like this.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

If there's any truth to this then the reason isn't for the benefit of other businesses in the area. It's because it'd financially benefit Munster. And I don't see how renting a stadium (and all the other issues besides) would make it financially more beneficial than Thomond. So I'd be amazed if this happened.

To quote myself

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What Munster should do is approach local business's in Cork and see if they can get a cut of the pie if they got 10-15k Leinster fans down for a day or longer. So hotel give 5% discount if they book with a loyalty number given when buying tickets. Then Munster can show how much it brings into the area...

Nobody apart from Munster and IRFU know if any truth to this story.

Sir Guy who smiles

snotboogie wrote: »

Negotiations to play a ground-breaking Guinness PRO14 rugby clash between Munster and Leinster at Páirc Ui Chaoimh this Christmas are at an advanced though delicate stage, Examiner Sport understands.



It seems pretty definitive that there are at least discussions taking place. Unless you think the examiner just made the whole thing up?

I asked one of the Corrs to sleep with me in 1997. She asked management if I could be removed from the premises, but discussions were taking place.

lawrencesummers

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

I asked one of the Corrs to sleep with me in 1997. She asked management if I could be removed from the premises, but discussions were taking place.

Jim presumably.

sioda

I'd say Masterchefs who run all the catering in thomond would be up in arms if the biggest game of the year was moved.

Kirk Van Houten

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A couple of fans not willing to travel from Limerick is hardly going to make or break the deal. All Munster have to do is offer them a 20 euro refund or an extra ticket for another home P14 game. It might actually increase attendance at another home game in Thomond

The reason they are looking at Cork for a big fixture like this is how much the other business in the area can make out of it. As I said previously a weekend or a few days at Christmas for travelling support would make sense. Plenty of shopping and a match for the Dad's.....

Not just Leinster fans but also Munster fans from outside Cork/Limerick etc.

I am not sure why anyone would be averse to it? try it once and see if it works. A full PUC could be a great injection into the Christmas fixtures and a nice little money earner for Munster and business in Cork.

You can be sure hotels/pubs/shops will be pushing for it to happen.

If I'm honest I'm not sure I've seen a more stupid and outlandish claim in a post on this thread since people were agreeing Basteraud was a done deal. Let's just recap here "The reason Munster are looking at Cork for a big game like this is how much the other businesses in the area can make out of it" 🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣🀣
You are claiming the reason Munster want to move a game from their own home stadium is for the greater good of the provincial economy?????
Since when have the IRFU of which Munster are a branch of the organisation responsible for or even willing to make moves like this for the greater good of the country?????

Munster have corporate clients who invest and have agreed long term deals on the boxes in Thomond. Part of the selling point is the annual Christmas game against Leinster. Moving it away from long term clients even on a once off basis risks losing good will.

Thomond accommodates roughly 26,000 so for PUC to be financially viable Munster would need to sell 26,000 tickets plus tickets to cover the rent, plus tickets to cover refunding the existing match day vendor deals in Thomond.

That's before you look at commercial and sponsorship issues. Does PUC have any long term ticket or corporate box deals that entitle the holder to attend all events with money already paid to Cork GAA. Can all corporate clients in Limerick be accomodated in PUC. What is the impact of ticket prices due to the nature of the uncovered stands in PUC and what is the impact to the bottom line financially.

Doing a quick calculation based on guess work and some of the figures mentioned in the Examiner article it looks like Munster would be looking at changing the fixture in the HOPE of possibly gaining around 100-200k but that Munster carry that risk and also the potential to upset existing long term corporate clients that they will need to rely on all year round and not just for a once off.

There are upsides in terms of expanding commercial bases with different companies around Cork but hard to imagine how many new ones could be brought on board long term that aren't already there.

Sir Guy who smiles

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Jim presumably.

I didn't think so at the time. But it was fairly dark in there; not so sure now.....

snotboogie

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

I asked one of the Corrs to sleep with me in 1997. She asked management if I could be removed from the premises, but discussions were taking place.

Was it reported in a national paper?

aloooof

snotboogie wrote: »

Was it reported in a national paper?

Would 26k+ people buy tickets to watch that? Actually, don't answer that....

aloooof

Fwiw, this seems to be the latest on it:

A historic clash between Munster and Leinster at Pairc Ui Chaoimh is still some way off the cards.

A report this morning suggested that a PRO14 meeting between the two rivals could take place as early as this December in the annual festive inter-pro derby, but Independent.ie understands that is not the case.

Although it remains a possibility that the glamour fixture may be held at the home of Cork GAA some time in the future, discussions between parties have not reached a stage where an agreement has been put in place.

Munster are set to host Leinster at Thomond Park on Saturday, December 28.

While Pairc Ui Chaoimh is not yet in line to open its doors to Munster Rugby, Irish Independent Park will host several PRO14 clashes as well as the province's first pre-season friendly against London Irish on September 13.

snotboogie

aloooof wrote: »

Fwiw, this seems to be the latest on it:

Seems to confirm discussions are taking place. This year would be a huge ask tbf. Would be great to see it in 2020.