Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

Eod100 · 16-08-2019 10:28am

Clareman wrote: »

With all the hassle with the pitch in PuC I'd imagine there would be quite a considerable charge to playing a winter game there.

Figure mentioned in article is 300k. Presumably from GAA, can't see how even half that cost would be viable for Munster to have a game there.

thomond2006 · 16-08-2019 10:54am

I'd love to see it happen for the novelty of it. The fixture itself is a bit stale so a once off change of scenery would be interesting. The Cork crowds in Musgrave Park have been excellent and it would be cool to bring them a marquee fixture.

I doubt the GAA would stand in the way of it.

Henry Ford III · 16-08-2019 11:01am

Eod100 wrote: »

Figure mentioned in article is 300k. Presumably from GAA, can't see how even half that cost would be viable for Munster to have a game there.

Assuming that €300k rent figure is correct Munster would need to sell c. 35,000 tickets @ say €35 a head on average to break even.

That ignores the loss of income from food and drinks sales at T.P. and then you've Shannon and Bohs who'd also be out of pocket.

Add in the logistical issues of rehousing Corporate box holders and it all becomes a bit marginal.

Shefwedfan · 16-08-2019 11:17am

I think it is a great idea.....Lots of people take a few days out of Dublin over the Xmas period so a mini break in Cork with a decent game of rugby to watch would make sense

They need to price the tickets correctly of course

snotboogie · 16-08-2019 11:34am

Clareman wrote: »

It must be a slow news day to say they are rolling this out again, why would Munster want to have a non-full PuC when they can fill TP. There is no upside to Munster for moving a regular game to PuC, maybe a HEC semi could be moved but why would the IRFU pay rent when they'd make more themselves out of the Aviva.

I'd say the main thing here is that PuC is 1 of the biggest white elephants and waste of money every in the history of sport in this country, they won't even let the Cork footballers play there so chances are there'll be 3 games there a year through the GAA so they need to make it look like other games will be played there.

Agreed on the white elephant but the reasons for Munster moving the game are absolutely clear. Cork need to be kept on side and a lot of people in Cork are not happy with the current situation, this would go a long way to please a lot of people. People on this board hate this point but look at the senior squad for next season, there are 32 players who came up through the Irish rugby system; 6 are from outside Munster, 7 are from Limerick, 4 are from non Cork or Limerick Munster counties and 15 are from Cork. The current list of fixtures in Cork for next year are Ospreys, Edinburgh, Southern Kings and Treviso. That is the extent of professional senior rugby calendar in Cork next year. I firmly believe the Leinster game would be a sell out.

The examiner state that the discussions are between Munster Rugby and the commercial board of PUC, Cork GAA are not involved, make of that what you will...

bennyl10 · 16-08-2019 11:39am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think it is a great idea.....Lots of people take a few days out of Dublin over the Xmas period so a mini break in Cork with a decent game of rugby to watch would make sense

They need to price the tickets correctly of course

They'll have an issue with season tickets and 5/10year tickets, and all the thomond hospitality.

These were all bought with Leinster in Thomond included. If its moved these would surely all need to be Comped

The cork 'side' can give out, but the main home of Munster Rugby is Thomond. That's not a debate.

Use PuC as a home base for EPCR QF's or Semis, it'd be great, but moving our biggest home league game of the year, out of our main home stadium, to a stadium which we'd need to rent, makes zero sense.

Also the pitch in PuC can barely take hurling, let alone a winter game of rugby.

AdamD · 16-08-2019 11:45am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd love to see it happen for the novelty of it. The fixture itself is a bit stale so a once off change of scenery would be interesting. The Cork crowds in Musgrave Park have been excellent and it would be cool to bring them a marquee fixture.

I doubt the GAA would stand in the way of it.

They've swapped it around this year which is something at least, the Aviva game is in April.

Shefwedfan · 16-08-2019 11:49am

bennyl10 wrote: »

They'll have an issue with season tickets and 5/10year tickets, and all the thomond hospitality.

These were all bought with Leinster in Thomond included. If its moved these would surely all need to be Comped

The cork 'side' can give out, but the main home of Munster Rugby is Thomond. That's not a debate.

Use PuC as a home base for EPCR QF's or Semis, it'd be great, but moving our biggest home league game of the year, out of our main home stadium, to a stadium which we'd need to rent, makes zero sense.

Also the pitch in PuC can barely take hurling, let alone a winter game of rugby.

Why? Leinster move games to Aviva and everyone gets a free ticket who is a season ticket holder.

Munster are hardly rolling in it, none of the provinces are. A game a season in Cork in a big stadium would hardly make a huge difference.....

Majority of the season Thomond is like a morgue, so fans complaining would be a bit rich.

What Munster should do is approach local business's in Cork and see if they can get a cut of the pie if they got 10-15k Leinster fans down for a day or longer. So hotel give 5% discount if they book with a loyalty number given when buying tickets. Then Munster can show how much it brings into the area...

Cork is a better location for a mini break over Christmas

bennyl10 · 16-08-2019 11:55am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why? Leinster move games to Aviva and everyone gets a free ticket who is a season ticket holder.

Munster are hardly rolling in it, none of the provinces are. A game a season in Cork in a big stadium would hardly make a huge difference.....

Majority of the season Thomond is like a morgue, so fans complaining would be a bit rich.

What Munster should do is approach local business's in Cork and see if they can get a cut of the pie if they got 10-15k Leinster fans down for a day or longer. So hotel give 5% discount if they book with a loyalty number given when buying tickets. Then Munster can show how much it brings into the area...

Cork is a better location for a mini break over Christmas

RDS to the Aviva is very, very different to Thomond and PuC,
one is across the road, one is a long, long drive. people will have planned for limerick and bough ST's as such. The league have confirmed for Thomond.

Munster aren't rolling in it, so the solution is to pay rent in a stadium, lose out on getting 1oo% of the hospitality monies/majority of bar and food takings?

Thomond when not full isnt the greatest, but why take away the one game of the year that is a guaranteed sell out? with an atmosphere? and move it to a stadium you've to pay more for.

Thomond is the main stadium, PuC is an alternative to Dublin for a Semi, not a main home.

snotboogie · 16-08-2019 12:00pm

bennyl10 wrote: »

RDS to the Aviva is very, very different to Thomond and PuC,
one is across the road, one is a long, long drive. people will have planned for limerick and bough ST's as such. The league have confirmed for Thomond.

Munster aren't rolling in it, so the solution is to pay rent in a stadium, lose out on getting 1oo% of the hospitality monies/majority of bar and food takings?

Thomond when not full isnt the greatest, but why take away the one game of the year that is a guaranteed sell out? with an atmosphere? and move it to a stadium you've to pay more for.

Thomond is the main stadium, PuC is an alternative to Dublin for a Semi, not a main home.

Because the main player, population and commercial base of the province is being completely marginalized in the current set up?

Cookiemunster · 16-08-2019 12:04pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Because the main player, population and commercial base of the province is being completely marginalized in the current set up?

Can we not get into a Cork v Limerick debate? They are many commercial reasons why this is not viable. Especially not this season when the game has already been confirmed for Thomond and season tickets (and 5/10 year tickets) have already been sold for Thomond that include this game.

bennyl10 · 16-08-2019 12:05pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Because the main player, population and commercial base of the province is being completely marginalized in the current set up?

we've an 8000 seater stadium in cork, vs a 25,600 in limerick. At munsters full disposal.

8000 isnt big enough for a european group game, and thomond fills for those.

IIP gets games on Friday nights which are proven to work and draw crowds. Munster don't have the capability to move bog games on a regular basis to Cork,. The main club base is in Limerick.

It would be lunacy to pay PuC rent when we've a perfectly good stadium in Limerick, that we're already paying a loan on.

Maybe IIP should have been built bigger, but the support base isnt there for 2 'major' stadiums

snotboogie · 16-08-2019 12:15pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Can we not get into a Cork v Limerick debate? They are many commercial reasons why this is not viable. Especially not this season when the game has already been confirmed for Thomond and season tickets (and 5/10 year tickets) have already been sold for Thomond that include this game.

Then why are Munster talking with PUC?

Cookiemunster · 16-08-2019 12:24pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Then why are Munster talking with PUC?

Are they? Do we know this for sure? If they are talking, is it about this season or future seasons? There's nothing more than conjecture in that article.

The Lost Sheep · 16-08-2019 12:27pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Because the main player, population and commercial base of the province is being completely marginalized in the current set up?

it isnt being marginalised. A professional side cant have two bases for everything. The rugby side of things is based in limerick. There is many other areas of running rugby in province based out of coek. Cork is still producing players. Crowds turning up well to games. It isnt marginalised.

bennyl10 wrote: »

we've an 8000 seater stadium in cork, vs a 25,600 in limerick. At munsters full disposal.

8000 isnt big enough for a european group game, and thomond fills for those.

IIP gets games on Friday nights which are proven to work and draw crowds. Munster don't have the capability to move bog games on a regular basis to Cork,. The main club base is in Limerick.

It would be lunacy to pay PuC rent when we've a perfectly good stadium in Limerick, that we're already paying a loan on.

Maybe IIP should have been built bigger, but the support base isnt there for 2 'major' stadiums

musgrave shouldn't have been built bigger and couldnt unless you removed pitches and that would f... up dolphin, da well and all other club games played in the ground

snotboogie wrote: »

Then why are Munster talking with PUC?

are they or is it just talk/rumours?

snotboogie · 16-08-2019 12:29pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Are they? Do we know this for sure? If they are talking, is it about this season or future seasons? There's nothing more than conjecture in that article.

Negotiations to play a ground-breaking Guinness PRO14 rugby clash between Munster and Leinster at Páirc Ui Chaoimh this Christmas are at an advanced though delicate stage, Examiner Sport understands.

The revamped headquarters of Cork GAA is the preferred option among key parties in the discussions to host the glamour clash of the provincial giants on Saturday, December 28, though certain commercial issues remain to be ironed out.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/rugby/pairc-in-the-frame-to-host-munster-leinster-rugby-clash-944271.html

It seems pretty definitive that there are at least discussions taking place. Unless you think the examiner just made the whole thing up?

Former Former · 16-08-2019 12:30pm

If there's any truth in any of it, it could be a kite-flying exercise for a possible quarter-final.

Once/if the naming rights for Thomond are sold the whole thing becomes moot anyway.

Henry Ford III · 16-08-2019 12:31pm

It's not going to happen.

bennyl10 · 16-08-2019 12:34pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Negotiations to play a ground-breaking Guinness PRO14 rugby clash between Munster and Leinster at Páirc Ui Chaoimh this Christmas are at an advanced though delicate stage, Examiner Sport understands.

The revamped headquarters of Cork GAA is the preferred option among key parties in the discussions to host the glamour clash of the provincial giants on Saturday, December 28, though certain commercial issues remain to be ironed out.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/rugby/pairc-in-the-frame-to-host-munster-leinster-rugby-clash-944271.html

It seems pretty definitive that there are at least discussions taking place. Unless you think the examiner just made the whole thing up?

Examiner wouldnt be the most reliable for rugby really.. woudlnt surprise me if they have one 'source' in PuC stirring

snotboogie · 16-08-2019 12:36pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it isnt being marginalised. A professional side cant have two bases for everything. The rugby side of things is based in limerick. There is many other areas of running rugby in province based out of coek. Cork is still producing players. Crowds turning up well to games. It isnt marginalised.

So Cork isn't marginalized because some admin duties are preformed there?

slingerz · 16-08-2019 12:41pm

Munster would make money on moving the fixture. Talk of season tickets, Shannon RFC etc are moot points. They'd move the season tickets and if people didnt want them they'd refund them. They would sell out that game in Cork at that time of the year. PUC has corporate facilities so hospitality etc is not an issue.

Henry Ford III · 16-08-2019 12:50pm

snotboogie wrote: »

So Cork isn't marginalized because some admin duties are preformed there?

A Cork vs Limerick slant isn't needed here I'd respectfully suggest. It's been done to death many times.

Cookiemunster · 16-08-2019 1:06pm

snotboogie wrote: »

Negotiations to play a ground-breaking Guinness PRO14 rugby clash between Munster and Leinster at Páirc Ui Chaoimh this Christmas are at an advanced though delicate stage, Examiner Sport understands.

The revamped headquarters of Cork GAA is the preferred option among key parties in the discussions to host the glamour clash of the provincial giants on Saturday, December 28, though certain commercial issues remain to be ironed out.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/rugby/pairc-in-the-frame-to-host-munster-leinster-rugby-clash-944271.html

It seems pretty definitive that there are at least discussions taking place. Unless you think the examiner just made the whole thing up?

An article in the Examiner without any quotes form any sources is not 'pretty definitive' It's conjecture and hearsay.

Shefwedfan · 16-08-2019 1:06pm

A couple of fans not willing to travel from Limerick is hardly going to make or break the deal. All Munster have to do is offer them a 20 euro refund or an extra ticket for another home P14 game. It might actually increase attendance at another home game in Thomond

The reason they are looking at Cork for a big fixture like this is how much the other business in the area can make out of it. As I said previously a weekend or a few days at Christmas for travelling support would make sense. Plenty of shopping and a match for the Dad's.....

Not just Leinster fans but also Munster fans from outside Cork/Limerick etc.

I am not sure why anyone would be averse to it? try it once and see if it works. A full PUC could be a great injection into the Christmas fixtures and a nice little money earner for Munster and business in Cork.

You can be sure hotels/pubs/shops will be pushing for it to happen.

Vinnie222 · 16-08-2019 1:12pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A couple of fans not willing to travel from Limerick is hardly going to make or break the deal. All Munster have to do is offer them a 20 euro refund or an extra ticket for another home P14 game. It might actually increase attendance at another home game in Thomond

The reason they are looking at Cork for a big fixture like this is how much the other business in the area can make out of it. As I said previously a weekend or a few days at Christmas for travelling support would make sense. Plenty of shopping and a match for the Dad's.....

Not just Leinster fans but also Munster fans from outside Cork/Limerick etc.

I am not sure why anyone would be averse to it? try it once and see if it works. A full PUC could be a great injection into the Christmas fixtures and a nice little money earner for Munster and business in Cork.

You can be sure hotels/pubs/shops will be pushing for it to happen.

And what about business in Limk , also hotels/pubs/shops .

Cookiemunster · 16-08-2019 1:20pm

slingerz wrote: »

Munster would make money on moving the fixture. Talk of season tickets, Shannon RFC etc are moot points. They'd move the season tickets and if people didnt want them they'd refund them. They would sell out that game in Cork at that time of the year. PUC has corporate facilities so hospitality etc is not an issue.

Would they? That's an extra 20K seats and the game in Thomond usually only sells out a week or two before the game. Are there really an extra 20K fans for a Pro14 game missing loads of star names?

And how much money would they actually make? They'd have to rent the stadium and they'd lose out on their own (very lucrative) hospitality sales as the GAA own the facilities in PUC. It would need to be some bloody deal for Munster to make a profit from it.

And to the 'they'd move season tickets' comment. I'd have no issue going to a game in PUC if before the fixtures were released and fixed and I'd purchased my season ticket I'd been informed of it. Also the 5/10 year tickets are sold for a seat in Thomond, not in PUC.

There's also still the most important thing of it getting permission from GAA HQ. Which is pretty unlikely for a Pro14 regular season match.

Eod100 · 16-08-2019 1:23pm

Former Former wrote: »

If there's any truth in any of it, it could be a kite-flying exercise for a possible quarter-final.

Once/if the naming rights for Thomond are sold the whole thing becomes moot anyway.

I think it would make sense to keep any qf at TP. Think it might make sense for a semi when it's either there or Aviva and even then Aviva can hold more.

Shefwedfan · 16-08-2019 1:25pm

Vinnie222 wrote: »

And what about business in Limk , also hotels/pubs/shops .

It is 1 game.....

Do many people actually stay in Limerick after the match?

I have gone and road is full on way down and road is full on way back.

snotboogie · 16-08-2019 1:26pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

A Cork vs Limerick slant isn't needed here I'd respectfully suggest. It's been done to death many times.

Mostly by me

I've been saying for years that the current set up isn't sustainable, you can't limit Cork to four low key professional games per year in the long term given the player output, demographics and economics of the province.

irelandrover · 16-08-2019 1:28pm

There's also the problem that a GAA pitch is terrible for a rugby match. The crowd are too far from the action and it affects the atmosphere.

Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

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