Galway's traffic issues

xckjoo

timmyntc wrote: »

There are no large populations centres, but there is a large enough population in that whole area west of the corrib. It doesn't matter that it's all spread out, they all still have to cross the corrib in Galway city to get anywhere east of the corrib. That's a problem that needs addressed. Whether it needs a few hundred million worth of dual carriageway is another story. A simple bridge as high up the river as possible would probably be enough - so long as traffic that doesn't need to go into the city doesn't have to.

Of the people that need to cross the river daily, the majority are going into the city or to work in a high density area. That's why I said Park and Ride would be needed. Drive to Moycullen, park up, get the bus. Reverse in the evening. Traffic will never improve if people insist on driving door-to-door everywhere. A new bridge and road will only shift the problem. We'll still have all the same bottlenecks and the end points.

DuckSlice

I fail to see how you think there is very few people going east-west when the traffic is backed up every evening on the N6 to get across the bridge.

what_traffic

etxp wrote: »

I fail to see how you think there is very few people going east-west when the traffic is backed up every evening on the N6 to get across the bridge.

How many actual people are in the "Car traffic" at that time is the question I would ask.
Roughly same number going East-West as West-East these days in the evenings.

DuckSlice

what_traffic wrote: »

How many actual people are in the "Car traffic" at that time is the question I would ask.
Roughly same number going East-West as West-East these days in the evenings.

Probably most of the traffic is caused by single occupancy cars. But you would get people using a by-pass quicker than they would ditch the car to use the bus/cycle. Then when this traffic is avoiding going through the city you could add in the bus lanes.

timmyntc

xckjoo wrote: »

Of the people that need to cross the river daily, the majority are going into the city or to work in a high density area. That's why I said Park and Ride would be needed. Drive to Moycullen, park up, get the bus. Reverse in the evening. Traffic will never improve if people insist on driving door-to-door everywhere. A new bridge and road will only shift the problem. We'll still have all the same bottlenecks and the end points.

Where have I said people should be able to drive door to door everywhere?
My point is simply that there should be an option to bypass the city - it doesn't make sense that traffic going west-east or vice versa should have to go through the city if the destination is not in the city - it's just adding to the traffic problems!

By all means, we need bus lanes, park and ride and proper orbital bus routes to fix the city's traffic problem - but another bridge across the Corrib outside the city limits is also needed. It shouldn't be a case of one or the other, we can have both.

xckjoo

etxp wrote: »

Probably most of the traffic is caused by single occupancy cars. But you would get people using a by-pass quicker than they would ditch the car to use the bus/cycle. Then when this traffic is avoiding going through the city you could add in the bus lanes.

That's exactly the problem though. If the road is built, everyone will just use it and never move to buses, etc. At best we'll have a few years of traffic improvement, but then it'll just catch up. Lots of research out there showing that building more roads just causes an even greater increase in car usage. It also doesn't address the issue of the bottlenecks at the likes of Parkmore. You'll just get to them faster.

timmyntc wrote: »

Where have I said people should be able to drive door to door everywhere?
My point is simply that there should be an option to bypass the city - it doesn't make sense that traffic going west-east or vice versa should have to go through the city if the destination is not in the city - it's just adding to the traffic problems!

By all means, we need bus lanes, park and ride and proper orbital bus routes to fix the city's traffic problem - but another bridge across the Corrib outside the city limits is also needed. It shouldn't be a case of one or the other, we can have both.

Where did I say you said that
If the option to drive is there it'll be used and things will just get worse. We can't have both, that's the whole problem. If the roads are there, they'll be used. Everybody that gets in a car is contributing to the traffic problem. If you're going from high density living areas to high density working areas, you shouldn't be driving. Specially not on your own. It's just not possible to accommodate that and not have crazy traffic delays.

timmyntc

xckjoo wrote: »

That's exactly the problem though. If the road is built, everyone will just use it and never move to buses, etc. At best we'll have a few years of traffic improvement, but then it'll just catch up. Lots of research out there showing that building more roads just causes an even greater increase in car usage. It also doesn't address the issue of the bottlenecks at the likes of Parkmore. You'll just get to them faster.

Where did I say you said that
If the option to drive is there it'll be used and things will just get worse. We can't have both, that's the whole problem. If the roads are there, they'll be used. Everybody that gets in a car is contributing to the traffic problem. If you're going from high density living areas to high density working areas, you shouldn't be driving. Specially not on your own. It's just not possible to accommodate that and not have crazy traffic delays.

If the road is far enough away from the city to not serve intra-city journeys it shouldn't be an issue. And wrt traffic problems, there's always going to be traffic problems. Even if we have a whole network of bus lanes and a reliable, fast service - there will still be bad traffic on private roads in the city. That's a given. But we shouldn't not bypass the city because city traffic will still be bad? It doesn't make sense. I agree that you shouldnt drive from high density to high density areas, but why should people who live in low density Connemara or East Galway, who want to cross the river (NOT go into the city) suffer the galway city traffic? Why shouldnt we aspire to have a bypass of the city running east-west?

The only solution to city traffic is bus lanes and better bus services - including park and ride. But people crossing the river corrib to go to East Galway or West Galway should not have to contribute to city traffic.

xckjoo

timmyntc wrote: »

If the road is far enough away from the city to not serve intra-city journeys it shouldn't be an issue. And wrt traffic problems, there's always going to be traffic problems. Even if we have a whole network of bus lanes and a reliable, fast service - there will still be bad traffic on private roads in the city. That's a given. But we shouldn't not bypass the city because city traffic will still be bad? It doesn't make sense. I agree that you shouldnt drive from high density to high density areas, but why should people who live in low density Connemara or East Galway, who want to cross the river (NOT go into the city) suffer the galway city traffic? Why shouldnt we aspire to have a bypass of the city running east-west?

The only solution to city traffic is bus lanes and better bus services - including park and ride. But people crossing the river corrib to go to East Galway or West Galway should not have to contribute to city traffic.

We can't build a bridge that far up. Past Menlo/Dangan, the river gets too wide and then you're at the lake (well I suppose you could probably technically build one but it would cost a fortune). As pointed out a page or two ago, the current plan is fairly similar to what they had when they built the Quincentenary bridge. The city will expand around it before we know it.

Unfortunately the people you're describing will always suffer the Galway traffic. There's just no avoiding it unless we outlaw cars for city folk. If the bridge and road are built, people will use them and demand will actually increase. There's loads of info on it out there, but this article was the first I found that looked credible. So those poor lads out west will always have to contend with Galway congestion unless we get the majority of people near the city into buses.





I'm not sure what your point is with the bit in bold above. Surely the only reason to build the bridge is to improve traffic?

timmyntc

xckjoo wrote: »

We can't build a bridge that far up. Past Menlo/Dangan, the river gets too wide and then you're at the lake (well I suppose you could probably technically build one but it would cost a fortune). As pointed out a page or two ago, the current plan is fairly similar to what they had when they built the Quincentenary bridge. The city will expand around it before we know it.

Unfortunately the people you're describing will always suffer the Galway traffic. There's just no avoiding it unless we outlaw cars for city folk. If the bridge and road are built, people will use them and demand will actually increase. There's loads of info on it out there, but this article was the first I found that looked credible. So those poor lads out west will always have to contend with Galway congestion unless we get the majority of people near the city into buses.





I'm not sure what your point is with the bit in bold above. Surely the only reason to build the bridge is to improve traffic?

I get the idea of induced demand with more roads, I'm not a denier
All I'm saying is, we shouldn't dismiss the idea of a bypass simply because Galway city traffic is bad/will be bad. The bypass would improve traffic that bypasses the city. It's in the name. It just needs to be designed so that it doesn't serve the needs of the intra-city commuters (i.e. the knocknacarra -> parkmore crowd).
I know there's limited space, but up by the cut where the river splits in 2 before joining Lough Corrib you could cross it - albeit you'd need 2 bridges instead of 1, but both would be shorter and crucially, farther from the city.

McGiver

timmyntc wrote: »

There are no large populations centres, but there is a large enough population in that whole area west of the corrib. It doesn't matter that it's all spread out, they all still have to cross the corrib in Galway city to get anywhere east of the corrib. That's a problem that needs addressed. Whether it needs a few hundred million worth of dual carriageway is another story. A simple bridge as high up the river as possible would probably be enough - so long as traffic that doesn't need to go into the city doesn't have to.

That's what I'm telling - build three more bridges. Done

saabsaab

xckjoo wrote: »

There's no large populations centres west of the river that warrant a bypass. The city to the east of the river is already bypassed. You can pass north<->south without entering the city and very few people are going east<->west. Park and ride in Knocknacarra and Moycullen would let people on the east get to the city and places of work without the need for a multi-million euro road that's liable to worsen traffic.

Yep, needs to be far enough out say the old ferry crossing at knockferry/kilbeg plus proper roads access.

zell12

Motor traffic gone nuts today for some reason.

Ashleigh1986

zell12 wrote: »

Motor traffic gone nuts today for some reason.

It's the weather .
Irish people can't drive in bad weather.
You would imagine they would be used to it by now .
You would swear they're driving on ice the way they drive in the rain.

biko

More spaces for cycle parking hopefully encourages more use of bicycles
https://www.galwaycity.ie/news/1426/59/Cycle-Parking-Changing-Gear-160-cycle-parking-spaces-installed-in-September-and-October-in-Galway-City-/d,News%20Detail

xckjoo

biko wrote: »

More spaces for cycle parking hopefully encourages more use of bicycles
https://www.galwaycity.ie/news/1426/59/Cycle-Parking-Changing-Gear-160-cycle-parking-spaces-installed-in-September-and-October-in-Galway-City-/d,News%20Detail

Was pleasantly surprised when I stopped at McGuires shop at Ravens Terrace yesterday and found I didn't have to lock my bike to the canal railings

zell12

xckjoo wrote: »

Was pleasantly surprised when I stopped at McGuires shop at Ravens Terrace yesterday and found I didn't have to lock my bike to the canal railings

Imagine all those car spaces turned into cycle spaces 💡

DuckSlice

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

It's the weather .
Irish people can't drive in bad weather.
You would imagine they would be used to it by now .
You would swear they're driving on ice the way they drive in the rain.

More so to do with people ditching the bike and public transport when the weather is crap than driving ability I would think

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

Was pleasantly surprised when I stopped at McGuires shop at Ravens Terrace yesterday and found I didn't have to lock my bike to the canal railings

You never HAD to. You CHOSE to.

I'm totally in favour of providing more official parking for two-wheelers, including converting SOME of the four-wheeler spaces.

But the absence of such spaces doesn't give you the right to abandon your bicycle on the footpath. And certainly not the requirement to do so.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You never HAD to. You CHOSE to.

I'm totally in favour of providing more official parking for two-wheelers, including converting SOME of the four-wheeler spaces.

But the absence of such spaces doesn't give you the right to abandon your bicycle on the footpath. And certainly not the requirement to do so.

Had to if I wanted my bike to still be there when I got back! It's a shared space so the footpath is only a relic of the old days. It's easy to forget though since it's constantly full of cars.

?Cee?view

xckjoo wrote: »

... the footpath is ...constantly full of cars.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

what_traffic

timmyntc wrote: »

The bypass would improve traffic that bypasses the city. It's in the name. It just needs to be designed so that it doesn't serve the needs of the intra-city commuters (i.e. the knocknacarra -> parkmore crowd).

Its NOT a bypass, its a City Ring Road that is been proposed.
Even the website shows this: http://www.n6galwaycityringroad.ie/

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Its NOT a bypass, its a City Ring Road that is been proposed.
Even the website shows this: http://www.n6galwaycityringroad.ie/

And on the main landing page here: http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/
N6 Galway City Ring Road

Galway County Council (GCC), on behalf of itself and on behalf of Galway City Council, is proposing to develop the N6 Galway City Ring Road (N6 GCRR) around Galway City.

Reason been - the know themselves based on there own stats very little "bypass car traffic". Destination is Galway City!!

what_traffic

biko wrote: »

More spaces for cycle parking hopefully encourages more use of bicycles
https://www.galwaycity.ie/news/1426/59/Cycle-Parking-Changing-Gear-160-cycle-parking-spaces-installed-in-September-and-October-in-Galway-City-/d,News%20Detail

To hit the national target for Galway City will need to install thousands more stands into the future. At least its easily done if the will is there.

xckjoo

?Cee?view wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

?

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

To hit the national target for Galway City will need to install thousands more stands into the future. At least its easily done if the will is there.

What's the target?

What's the current qty?

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

It's a shared space so the footpath is only a relic of the old days. It's easy to forget though since it's constantly full of cars.

Nonsense.

The footpath is still clearly delineated by bollards.

And when I walked past 45 mins ago, some ass****s still had their two-wheelers locked to the fence, protruding into pedestrian space, despite the bicycle stand being half empty.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nonsense.

The footpath is still clearly delineated by bollards.

And when I walked past 45 mins ago, some ass****s still had their two-wheelers locked to the fence, protruding into pedestrian space, despite the bicycle stand being half empty.

If they're not out to get you when they're moving they're out to get you when they're stationary....

Have a read of the Galway City Development plan to see what's supposed to be happening in Ravens Terrace. Feel free to walk down the middle because it's supposed to be pedestrian friendly. I don't lock my bike in places that'll force people into traffic.
Relevant section :

Significant improvements have been made to Raven Terrace with the removal of through traffic and resurfacing creating a much improved pedestrian environment and improving permeability to ‘The West’. The Council will continue to investigate opportunities to carry out improvements to space taking account of the public realm strategy to be prepared.

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

If they're not out to get you when they're moving they're out to get you when they're stationary....

Have a read of the Galway City Development plan to see what's supposed to be happening in Ravens Terrace. Feel free to walk down the middle because it's supposed to be pedestrian friendly. I don't lock my bike in places that'll force people into traffic.
Relevant section :

One of us read the .doc on the website.

One of us walked down the street.

I wonder which of us made observations that more close match reality.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

One of us read the .doc on the website.

One of us walked down the street.

I wonder which of us made observations that more close match reality.

And some people's "reality" is unique only to themselves and the hoards of cyclists out to get them every time they leave the house.....

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the target?

What's the current qty?

It will be a moving target into the future but 10% of Workers and Students in the City by 2020.

Core City Centre: Roughly about 340 (that is including the 160 announced), some of this 160 is NEW (Sea Road), but some is replacing existing stands like North East corner of Eyre SQ which had sub standard parking in place prior.
NUIG provision would be a some what useful model to follow for the City.