Galway's traffic issues

xckjoo

what_traffic wrote: »

Multiple Zones in Dublin Bus fare, you tap off when exiting the bus. Free trips - ah well if they don't maintain and have some of those ticket machines in reserve what do they expect?

Oh right. Hadn't realised it was tap on-tap off in Dublin. I guess the difference so is that Dublin Bus is separate company from Bus Eireann. Do Bus Eireann in Limerick or Cork have tap on/off setups?

Fitz*

I thought that the DB system was that if you are going on a shorter journey, you tell the driver and you tap there for the lower fare. Usually just for shorter journeys. Then if you just self-tap, it is charged a one-off flat fare that is higher. These are for longer journeys. No tap off required required for either (is that not just for the LUAS & DART?). I've only just used the self tap as it's easier and quicker anyways.

what_traffic

FitzShane wrote: »

I thought that the DB system was that if you are going on a shorter journey, you tell the driver and you tap there for the lower fare. Usually just for shorter journeys. Then if you just self-tap, it is charged a one-off flat fare that is higher. These are for longer journeys. No tap off required required for either (is that not just for the LUAS & DART?). I've only just used the self tap as it's easier and quicker anyways.

Sounds about right - been ages since I used DB.

DuckSlice

Deleted User wrote: »

96 Pages. Have ye solved Galways traffic problems yet?

yea all sorted now, quick summary:
- we need bus lanes
- taxis get priority because they are great
- abolish bikes because they cause mayhem, also they caused the recession
- we need more bus lanes
- taxis take a higher priority, even more so than 10 posts before they took the priority
- bus drivers are assholes
- toilets on buses are fantastic
- pedestrianize the county

Think I have covered everything :D

flazio

You forgot bus lanes

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

Multiple Zones in Dublin Bus fare, you tap off when exiting the bus. Free trips - ah well if they don't maintain and have some of those ticket machines in reserve what do they expect?

This is not correct. It's on only.

What Dublin does have is daily fare capping: you pay the full route fair at your first driverless tap and second up to the daily cap. After that you keep tapping but there's no charge.

Theoretically most Galway city routes have two zones (over and under 7.5km) but in reality only newly trained drivers apply them.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This is not correct. It's on only.

What Dublin does have is daily fare capping: you pay the full route fair at your first driverless tap and second up to the daily cap. After that you keep tapping but there's no charge.

Theoretically most Galway city routes have two zones (over and under 7.5km) but in reality only newly trained drivers apply them.

So in a Galway City context if this was implemented - the 2nd "long" ZONES should be charged by driver as would have far greater trips using the shorter zone journeys? Presume alot of users using LEAP pre-book tickets on them as well (like tax free tickets)

what_traffic

etxp wrote: »

yea all sorted now, quick summary:
- we need bus lanes
- taxis get priority because they are great
- abolish bikes because they cause mayhem, also they caused the recession
- we need more bus lanes
- taxis take a higher priority, even more so than 10 posts before they took the priority
- bus drivers are assholes
- toilets on buses are fantastic
- pedestrianize the county

Think I have covered everything :D

You forgot about banning cars, sure might as well ban walking as well.

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

? Presume alot of users using LEAP pre-book tickets on them as well (like tax free tickets)

Pre-pay rather than pre-book.

But only Bus Eireann know the proportion. My hunch, without any data at all, is not so many because lots of companies don't offer TaxSaver.

saabsaab

Yes. banning cars from the central area of the city is a good idea. The streets are too small for modern traffic anyway. Also make most of the routes one way like happened when the bridge near the docks was being refurbished. traffic worked better.

Mrs OBumble

I've been meaning to come back to this once I had a proper keyboard:

Prince Straight Stroller wrote: »

Incorrect, The city is no more for the people who live there than it is for anyone who comes into it to work or shop.

and

Prince Straight Stroller wrote: »

Food shopping anyway other than with a car is absolute hardship pure and simple, I see people dragging 3 or 4 shopping bags along every so often and I feel sorry for the poor sod particularly if they are getting soaked.

As a city-centre resident, I have to agree with him here: Galway is a tourist destination, but it is also a service-centre for a large rural / small-town hinterland: the city needs to be designed so that the needs of these people are met: the common good, rather than the tyranny of the majority should govern our design and behaviours.

That means that when the likes of this user needs to bring his sick granny into the hospital, he need to bring a car and take it all the way to the hospital. Similarly when he needs to do a food-shop for a large household, he needs access to a supermarket that's not in the city-centre.

Of course he needs to play a part too: for daily work journeys (if he really must have an off-farm job), he should be using the car for the last few miles and P&R for the rest. But the biggest behaviour change needed is actually from city-suburbs and small-town residents. The ones who can be feasibly served by public transport, but choose not be

There's no problem with noxxy driving into Galway city centre but........

1. He should be charged through the nose for parking to encourage the use of alternative modes
2. He should have the lowest priority given that his chosen mode is the least efficient in terms of number of people moved, again to encourage the use of alternative modes.
3. He should be taxed in accordance with the amount of pollution his choice contributes to the environment, to encourage etc etc

A final comment regarding the "but what about X".

There will ALWAYS be outliers and exceptions however they are exactly that, outliers and exceptions and should not form the part of the baseline of any solution. They should be accommodated, 100%, but their individual situation is not a barrier to change. I say this as an accessibility advocate.

DuckSlice

Deleted User wrote: »

There's no problem with noxxy driving into Galway city centre but........

1. He should be charged through the nose for parking to encourage the use of alternative modes
2. He should have the lowest priority given that his chosen mode is the least efficient in terms of number of people moved, again to encourage the use of alternative modes.
3. He should be taxed in accordance with the amount of pollution his choice contributes to the environment, to encourage etc etc

A final comment regarding the "but what about X".

There will ALWAYS be outliers and exceptions however they are exactly that, outliers and exceptions and should not form the part of the baseline of any solution. They should be accommodated, 100%, but their individual situation is not a barrier to change. I say this as an accessibility advocate.

He will already be paying motor tax which is based on emissions(unless he has an older car, and if he does he is more than likely paying a higher tax rate) and carbon tax which is included in the price of fuel. There is an additional tax coming in on cars registered after 1st Jan 2020 on the NOX emissions.

Are you suggesting more taxes?

Geuze

etxp wrote: »

Are you suggesting more taxes?

Taxes on owning cars should be reduced.

Taxes on using cars should be increased.

Taxes/prices on driving cars into city centres should be increased.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There will ALWAYS be outliers and exceptions however they are exactly that, outliers and exceptions and should not form the part of the baseline of any solution. They should be accommodated, 100%, but their individual situation is not a barrier to change. I say this as an accessibility advocate.

Rural people accessing tertiary health services is not an outlier or exception. It's an everyday occurrence.

Our focus needs to be on the facilities for and behaviour of those who can reasonably change their transport behaviours, not on those who cannot.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Of course he needs to play a part too: for daily work journeys (if he really must have an off-farm job), But the biggest behaviour change needed is actually from city-suburbs and small-town residents. The ones who can be feasibly served by public transport, but choose not be

The reality is that unfortunately very few farms are viable as full time farms anymore and are ran as a side business with the main income being from off farm work.

Deleted User wrote: »

There will ALWAYS be outliers and exceptions however they are exactly that, outliers and exceptions and should not form the part of the baseline of any solution. They should be accommodated, 100%, but their individual situation is not a barrier to change. I say this as an accessibility advocate.

The population of Galway country is twice that of the city so we aren’t talking about outliers.

Also the cost of owning and driving a car is always far too high in Ireland it’s cuts we need not further increases.

DuckSlice

Geuze wrote: »

Taxes on owning cars should be reduced.

Taxes on using cars should be increased.

Taxes/prices on driving cars into city centres should be increased.

I could get on board with your last point probably, something like a congestion charge, but taxes on using cars should not be increased.

My car tax covers me for driving everywhere not just in cities. Galway city driving is about 10% of my overall weekly miles. I shouldn't be penalised for having to drive wherever I want just to try reduce congestion in the cities.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Rural people accessing tertiary health services is not an outlier or exception. It's an everyday occurrence.

Our focus needs to be on the facilities for and behaviour of those who can reasonably change their transport behaviours, not on those who cannot.

There are no health services in the city center

Wegian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There will ALWAYS be outliers and exceptions however they are exactly that, outliers and exceptions and should not form the part of the baseline of any solution. They should be accommodated, 100%, but their individual situation is not a barrier to change. I say this as an accessibility advocate.

It suits your argument to classify these as outliers but the reality is the opposite in that the thousands that travel into Galway city from the county and surrounding counties are the baseline....and do so by necessity rather than as a result of some individual situation

Where appropriate efficient public transportation is available it is a success (Luas etc) but proposing taxation penalties with no viable alternatives available is just a money grab

Wegian

Wegian wrote: »

It suits your argument to classify these as outliers but the reality is the opposite in that the thousands that travel into Galway city from the county and surrounding counties are the baseline....and do so by necessity rather than as a result of some individual situation

Where appropriate efficient public transportation is available it is a success (Luas etc) but proposing taxation penalties with no viable alternatives available is just a money grab

Please read the full post again, you missed some important points

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Rural people accessing tertiary health services is not an outlier or exception. It's an everyday occurrence.

Our focus needs to be on the facilities for and behaviour of those who can reasonably change their transport behaviours, not on those who cannot.

What about all the ambulances stuck in traffic every time they try and get to an emergency? That's probably already indirectly cost lives and resulted in serious quality of life issues due to late arrivals of EMS.

Don't think anyone has suggested a complete ban on cars driving to any of the hospitals. Or even stopping people who need to drive from driving. It's all the other people that are able bodied and commuting to high density employment areas that need to get out of their cars. Leave space for those that need it.

Wegian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Please read the full post again, you missed some important points

I read it again, I don’t see how it changes my response given that your take is that the majority should be charged more and given lower priority when there are no efficient viable alternatives available when traveling from the surrounding countryside

Perhaps I am misrepresenting your position (and I apologise if I am) but that’s what I get from your post....

I am one of this majority and I would gladly avail of an alternative to the 10 hours a week I spend looking out over my steering wheel

Wegian

Wegian wrote: »

I read it again, I don’t see how it changes my response given that your take is that the majority should be charged more and given lower priority when there are no efficient viable alternatives available when traveling from the surrounding countryside

Perhaps I am misrepresented your position but that’s what I get from your post....

I am one of this majority and I would gladly avail of an alternative to the 10 hours a week I spend looking out over my steering wheel

Buses, walking, cycling are all more efficient than single occupier vehicles

Projections are that the population of Galway is set to increase by over 50% over the next 20 years.

The status quo is no longer viable.

To change the status quo you have to make the least efficient option the least attractive one. This is done by lower its priority and increasing its cost. Time and money. Start costing people those and they will be motivated to change.

Doing nothing is not an option.

Wegian

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Buses, walking, cycling are all more efficient than single occupier vehicles

Projections are that the population of Galway is set to increase by over 50% over the next 20 years.

The status quo is no longer viable.

To change the status quo you have to make the least efficient option the least attractive one. This is done by lower its priority and increasing its cost. Time and money. Start costing people those and they will be motivated to change.

Doing nothing is not an option.

Bus, walking, cycling are not more efficient or viable for people travelling into Galway from the surrounding counties, that’s the reality for the majority

Penalizing them with additional taxes will achieve nothing apart from a money grab

Wegian

Wegian wrote: »

Bus, walking, cycling are not more efficient or viable for people travelling into Galway from the surrounding counties, that’s the reality for the majority

Penalizing them with additional taxes will achieve nothing apart from a money grab

What do you propose to keep the city center moving with a 50% increase in the population?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you propose to keep the city center moving with a 50% increase in the population?

Get the ring road built to begin with and take a large amount of the traffic that doesn’t need to be in the city out of the city would be an excellent start!

what_traffic

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Get the ring road built to begin with and take a large amount of the traffic that doesn’t need to be in the city out of the city would be an excellent start!

That's 10 years away at this stage.
Also that was said about the previous one(Quin-centenary Bridge/Bothar na dTreabh). Might work for 10 years but will be back to square again after that.
So in 20 years time and Page 12,546 on this thread we will be discussing the same topics again.

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

Buses, walking, cycling are all more efficient than single occupier vehicles

Projections are that the population of Galway is set to increase by over 50% over the next 20 years.

The status quo is no longer viable.

120,000 in Galway City by 2040 - that is the target in the National Development Plan.

DuckSlice

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you propose to keep the city center moving with a 50% increase in the population?

Bus Lanes and a Park and ride system that works.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

That's 10 years away at this stage.
Also that was said about the previous one(Quin-centenary Bridge/Bothar na dTreabh). Might work for 10 years but will be back to square again after that.
So in 20 years time and Page 12,546 on this thread we will be discussing the same topics again.

They were never a bypass, they were built in the city. The new one will be a high throughout, high speed motorway essentially well outside the city Centre. Totally different ball game.