Galway's traffic issues

what_traffic

Discodog wrote: »

I mention it because there are, for want of a better word, extremists who just want to ban cars. I probably smelt the climate a lot earlier than most. I support the pedestrianisation of the City but you can't just magic cars away.

Cities like Oxford did it because there was a plan. Our Council & Government have no concept of what a plan entails.

Try a better word and while your at it - quote the posts that you believe say this.
There is nothing extreme about trying to get more people into and travelling within the City using the most efficient modes.

Agree City and County are paying for the poor planning for some time now. It is based on a failed ideology. Chickens coming home to roost. Citizens of Galway are paying for that now.

How the hell does one smell the climate?

xckjoo

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

No I do exactly as I explained above, drop stuff back to the car every so often.



I personally don’t shop in tesco never liked it but regardless of that I’d have no interest in deliveries as they never get it right from what I’ve seen, wouldn’t pick the fruit or veg I would etc. We did a big drink order once and they couldn’t even get that right, arrived with about half less than half the stuff, charged more than the price was on the day we ordered on some of it etc, useless.

Nobody I know would be arsed going back to the car with stuff. They just carry it cause its not much effort. Would take more effort to walk back to the car and drop it off. Not buying bricks.

Do all your expenditures involve alcohol
I don't do tesco orders for the exact same reason.
Dunnes do delivery. Walk in, do your shopping and they drop it out later. Very handy. Although half the time we don't bother and bring it straight home. Have a wheely bag and just carry the overflow. Does a family of 3 for a week.

Discodog

what_traffic wrote: »

Try a better word and while your at it - quote the posts that you believe say this.
There is nothing extreme about trying to get more people into and travelling within the City using the most efficient modes.

Agree City and County are paying for the poor planning for some time now. It is based on a failed ideology. Chickens coming home to roost. Citizens of Galway are paying for that now.

How the hell does one smell the climate?

"But, don't be surprised when you are charged through the nose for the privilege."

You forgot to mention the many who have to travel through it.

I was quoting someone else who refererred to smelling the climate.

youngrun

flazio wrote: »

Weekends, run Park and rides from industrial estates that are closed for the weekend. Mervue for example.

Good idea.

P&R Could and should imho be done during week also using spaces such as Galway Airport , Racecourse etc .
There are existing bus lanes but I would also Give priority to buses on one or more inbound lanes eg Monivea road or QCB eg buses or taxis only for a 2 hr period in am and outbound in pm period .
Needs a nuclear option to encourage public transport . People not going to switch otherwise.
Any bypass 5+ years away. City is full with cars and cannot function as is properly

youngrun

youngrun wrote: »

Good idea.

P&R Could and should imho be done during week also using spaces such as Galway Airport

Trialed and failed so badly they cut the trial short

what_traffic

Discodog wrote: »

"But, don't be surprised when you are charged through the nose for the privilege."

And what about this statement says that Cars are to be banned?
Dacor is not suggesting or even hinting at banning cars here?
Such nonsense using this as an example.
You can still drive into the City but you will pay for using public or private space that exists to facilitate the storage of metal boxs with wheels on them.
There is literally 1000's of car parking spots in City Center, we need to start removing some of them especially the ON-STREET car parking

youngrun

Deleted User wrote: »

Trialed and failed so badly they cut the trial short

Why did it fail ?

Perhaps people are happy enough to sit in cars for hours in traffic

Suggest a carrot and stick approach ie very cheap P&R plus roads restricted to only PT traffic at certain hours enabling this optoon to free flow may move people to use buses/P&R

xckjoo

Laviski wrote: »

park and ride useless unless you have bus lanes on all arterial routes in and out of city. At present we don't have anything like that.
-before you say it the ones we do have are just sections on one part of the road with the exception of the one in westside where people are wanting it to be a dual carriageway.
Most of all - none of these bus lanes actually reach the city center.

Simple as, two new bridges are needed to be built and this will facilitate in turning existing roads to accommodate bus lanes or converted to bus lanes entirely. This is the bridge for outer bypass and a new road bridge from cathedral to courthouse (if they build a footbridge its f*in stupid and a waste of money as will solve nothing.)

once outer bypass is done we could have dedicated buslane from knocknacarra/rahoon to all the way to biarhill junction. In turn, eyre sq /egllington street / foster street into a bus/taxi only road. Something inventive will still need to be done for bohermore rd and college rd, make one side normal traffic and the other bus lane from opposite direction. ( as we know one way as tried before while it was successful it lead to people speeding and some resident complaints of their convenience)
Tuam rd needs bus lanes and dublin road need to look at connecting existing outbound bus lanes and extending it further out to junction at galway crystal.

outer ring road will facilitate making public transport run more efficient and in turn making cars journeys to the city center undesirable (but not impossible)

Ya I think I've said repeatedly in this thread that more bus lanes are needed badly in this city. It's ridiculous how many sparse they are.

The ring road/bypass/whatever sounds like a good idea in theory, but the figures don't seem to back up a need for it. There's very few people with a daily commute that involves passing the city, crossing the river and moving on. If you're living and working within the city and suburbs, public transport should be the primary method of commuting. The largest population centres West of the city are Barna, Spiddal and Moycullen. Park and Ride facilities around Knocknacarra and Dangan would cater for them. The majority of workers are actually coming from East of the river and working on the East side. Park and Rides on those main arterial roads (Claregalway, Oranmore, etc.) would cater for them. Once you shift all those bodies from single occupancy cars to buses*, you'll be amazed at the space that's cleared up. The current road infrastructure would handle it easily, with space for the people that need their cars/vans for whatever reason.

The ring road will just be a giant waste of money that isn't fit for purpose. That's my biggest issue with it. Oh and admittedly I'm fond of the Dangan area. It'll be a shame to see that destroyed with a pointless road.





*50 people in a bus takes up a lot less space than 50 cars on the road. And only 1 driver to wake up and start moving at traffic lights means less delay

what_traffic

Great post - the following in bold needs to be said over and over again.

xckjoo wrote: »

Once you shift all those bodies from single occupancy cars to buses*, you'll be amazed at the space that's cleared up. The current road infrastructure would handle it easily, with space for the people that need their cars/vans for whatever reason.



*50 people in a bus takes up a lot less space than 50 cars on the road. And only 1 driver to wake up and start moving at traffic lights means less delay

youngrun

youngrun wrote: »

Why did it fail ?

No bus lanes so incoming traffic had to detour to the airport, park up, get the bus and be stuck in traffic for longer than if they had just kept going.

It was a great idea and should be revisited but without the infrastructure to back it up it won't work

Laviski

what_traffic wrote: »

Great post - the following in bold needs to be said over and over again.

not disaggreeing with the statement but people are not going to swtich to an unrelaible service. Since all services go through Eyre square if people were commuiting from one side to the other they will be adding an hour extra on to their journey each way. (i'm not exagurating. previously didn't have a car and walking from ballybrit to westside is faster walking than taking the bus during peak traffic)

ring road is needed to facilitate change needed to add bus lanes.

xckjoo

Laviski wrote: »

not disaggreeing with the statement but people are not going to swtich to an unrelaible service. Since all services go through Eyre square if people were commuiting from one side to the other they will be adding an hour extra on to their journey each way. (i'm not exagurating. previously didn't have a car and walking from ballybrit to westside is faster walking than taking the bus during peak traffic)

ring road is needed to facilitate change needed to add bus lanes.

Totally agree that people won't switch to an unreliable service. I just don't agree the new road is needed.

Stick bus lanes everywhere and work with bus providers to get a wider range of services available; including ones that don't go through Eyre Square. Between the increased usability and speed of the buses and the loss of some road space, people will be quick enough to switch to buses. Building a ring road will just cause people to drive further to go around the city and then sit in the same bottlenecks at the high density employment areas. No road system can handle all the Parkmore employees driving.

Discodog

xckjoo wrote: »

Totally agree that people won't switch to an unreliable service. I just don't agree the new road is needed.

Stick bus lanes everywhere and work with bus providers to get a wider range of services available; including ones that don't go through Eyre Square. Between the increased usability and speed of the buses and the loss of some road space, people will be quick enough to switch to buses. Building a ring road will just cause people to drive further to go around the city and then sit in the same bottlenecks at the high density employment areas. No road system can handle all the Parkmore employees driving.

You cannot put bus lanes everywhere without causing even more congestion. You want to reduce the space for cars without providing an alternative.

How would you expect someone living in Moycullen, Barna, Spiddal & further West to get to work in the East of the City?

Ashleigh1986

For people to start using a bus service major changes are needed...
(1) far more bus lanes needed to be put in especially around city center/ tuam road / parkmore hill
(2) a maximum of 15 minutes wait at all bus stops .

(3) proper real time information going from every bus on every route to every bus stop on that route giving exact waiting time to next bus .
(4) proper bus shelters ... Not just a red pole stuck in the ground
(5) new routes bringing people to parkmore direct from city areas .
(6) a huge improvement in the amount of school buses required
..... Are bus eireann capable of doing all these changes ???

Ashleigh1986

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

For people to start using a bus service major changes are needed...
(1) far more bus lanes needed to be put in especially around city center/ tuam road / parkmore hill
(2) a maximum of 15 minutes wait at all bus stops .

(3) proper real time information going from every bus on every route to every bus stop on that route giving exact waiting time to next bus .
(4) proper bus shelters ... Not just a red pole stuck in the ground
(5) new routes bringing people to parkmore direct from city areas .
(6) a huge improvement in the amount of school buses required
..... Are bus eireann capable of doing all these changes ???

They already stated that they can, no problem, but won't proceed until #1 in your post is done as they are unable to commit to even the existing timetable due the current scarcity of bus lanes. It truly is a case of "if you build it, they will come"

what_traffic

Laviski wrote: »

not disaggreeing with the statement but people are not going to swtich to an unrelaible service. Since all services go through Eyre square if people were commuiting from one side to the other they will be adding an hour extra on to their journey each way. (i'm not exagurating. previously didn't have a car and walking from ballybrit to westside is faster walking than taking the bus during peak traffic)

ring road is needed to facilitate change needed to add bus lanes.

I am 99% with ya, that is no exaggeration on the bus times. I have a similar commute. It would also be faster to cycle that route than get the bus at off peak hours when car traffic is low.

the 1%
There is ZERO OFFICIAL indication that once the "Galway City Ring Road"is built that this will occur. Existing Roads like Sean Mulvoy lanes taken over for bus lanes and cycle lanes. No plans for re-purpose of the use of the current N6.

Ashleigh1986

Deleted User wrote: »

They already stated that they can, no problem, but won't proceed until #1 in your post is done as they are unable to commit to even the existing timetable due the current scarcity of bus lanes. It truly is a case of "if you build it, they will come"

Dacor.... Of course they are going to say that they can .
For people to ditch their car and go on a bus to work .... The service would want to be on the level of German professionism .
Picture the scene ...
Worker wants to go from knocknacarra to parkmore .
What they want is to be able to look at their phone and see " real time & bus arrival at their nearest bus stop .
What they want is a good quality bus and bus driver .
What they want is a direct route to their place of work .
What they want is the exact same service returning from their place of work.
What they want is the service to be realiable 100% of the time .
All these buses should be no cash buses .
Just tap your card and go .

Ashleigh1986

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

Dacor.... Of course they are going to say that they can .
For people to ditch their car and go on a bus to work .... The service would want to be on the level of German professionism .
Picture the scene ...
Worker wants to go from knocknacarra to parkmore .
What they want is to be able to look at their phone and see " real time & bus arrival at their nearest bus stop .
What they want is a good quality bus and bus driver .
What they want is a direct route to their place of work .
What they want is the exact same service returning from their place of work.
What they want is the service to be realiable 100% of the time .
All these buses should be no cash buses .
Just tap your card and go .

So you want them to say they can and when they do say it you dismiss it? Umm, ok?

As for the rest of your post, this is already in operation and proven to be working on the Doughiska route which has been so successful due to the bus lane that they have massively increased the frequency and want to increase it further as the route is so well travelled they need more capacity on it. The only thing holding back further expansion is additional bus lanes.

As for the cashless thing, yeah, long overdue but that's a topic for a different thread and board (C&T perhaps)

zell12

Deleted User wrote: »

As for the cashless thing, yeah, long overdue but that's a topic for a different thread and board (C&T perhaps)

CityDirect are exact fare only that you throw into a receptor and driver sees it is ≤ fare, or scan your card.
Much more efficient embarking than BÉ

Ashleigh1986

whats in operation and has been for a long number of years is a crap service Irish style.
Your not going to get people out of their cars unless you can guarantee them excellent service.
That's why go bus and city link have been so successful .
Quality buses/ excellent drivers / good rates / always on time .
Are bus eireann in the same league regarding providing the same standard of service ....NO

Kingp35

zell12 wrote: »

CityDirect are exact fare only that you throw into a receptor and driver sees it is ≤ fare, or scan your card.
Much more efficient embarking than BÉ

You should be able to tap your debit/credit card like you can do in London for public transport. There is absolutely no need for the leap card or cash.

youngrun

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

whats in operation and has been for a long number of years is a crap service Irish style.
Your not going to get people out of their cars unless you can guarantee them excellent service.
That's why go bus and city link have been so successful .
Quality buses/ excellent drivers / good rates / always on time .
Are bus eireann in the same league regarding providing the same standard of service ....NO

The solution is then to enable buses to take over the roads and limit or restrict cars on certain routes, That way buses on their routes will face no traffic and will arrive on time and the service will be improved to top class.

xckjoo

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

whats in operation and has been for a long number of years is a crap service Irish style.
Your not going to get people out of their cars unless you can guarantee them excellent service.
That's why go bus and city link have been so successful .
Quality buses/ excellent drivers / good rates / always on time .
Are bus eireann in the same league regarding providing the same standard of service ....NO

As someone that regularly takes the bus to work I can say that the quality of the buses and drivers is fine, rates are fine, and in the morning the times are accurate. I use the Real-Time App on my phone and am fairly happy with it. The only thing I recommend is to get there a few mins early as they are sometimes ahead.

Once again though, the punctuality of the buses is completely dependant on the volume of traffic on the road since there's so few bus lanes. Going home in the evening I can see the difference. The buses are coming from busier roads so are often delayed.

There's no real delay getting onto the bus either. Nothing I've ever felt bothered by anyway.

Kingp35 wrote: »

You should be able to tap your debit/credit card like you can do in London for public transport. There is absolutely no need for the leap card or cash.

Ya I'm not sure why we need a separate card, but isn't that a recent change to the London system? Last time I was there a few years ago you needed an Oyster card.

Fitz*

Ironically, paying cash is actually quicker than using the Leap Card on BE buses now. It takes maybe double the time, because the passenger has to give the card into the driver machine, wait for it to load. Then the driver presses two buttons and again a wait period and then finally the passenger removes the card again. Most people have Leap cards now, so embarking time is a not slower now than a few years ago. Dublin Bus have a system in place where you can walk on and touch tap while you walk on and no waiting time.

I don't agree with the real time app being accurate though. Most days I have gotten a bus over the last few weeks, be it peak time, off-peak time or at weekends, I have been given false information on both the 401 and 405 routes. It's completely untrustworthy now for me.

BE may be waiting for the bus lanes to be introduced in order to increase service, so that they can say that traffic is out of their hands, but providing accurate real time information is in their hands. But refuse to do anything about it. There are still no real time signs at a lot of stops, or shelters, including terminus stops. They have told me that the real time info online does not take into account traffic or delays. So basically, they just have random times on their app. Buses are often delayed by other 40 mins and passengers are just left standing waiting for one to show up.

Also, it's not uncommon to see 2 or 3 buses running the same route back to back. Why does one not wait for the next timetabled slot to prevent further disruption? BE also has control over that.

1 issue in the hands of the GCC, 3 in the hands of BE.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

As someone that regularly takes the bus to work I can say that the quality of the buses and drivers is fine, rates are fine, and in the morning the times are accurate. I use the Real-Time App on my phone and am fairly happy with it. The only thing I recommend is to get there a few mins early as they are sometimes ahead.
.
..

There's no real delay getting onto the bus either. Nothing I've ever felt bothered by anyway.

Tis not often I use the bus as usually use bicycle, but strikes me that any time I do. The LEAP card system for Galway City Bus is slow. That whole process could be sped up. Dublin bus use a different process.
Main issue as you point out is lack of bus priority measures and bus lanes

Mrs OBumble

Kingp35 wrote: »

You should be able to tap your debit/credit card like you can do in London for public transport. There is absolutely no need for the leap card or cash.

You clearly have no idea what proportion of the population don't even have a bank account.

Also about the needs of children. A city I know well tried using debt style cards which could be used for small convenience store purchases too. Absolute disaster: kids used the whole week's bus money to buy sweets on Monday.

Wompa1

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

I personally don’t shop in tesco never liked it but regardless of that I’d have no interest in deliveries as they never get it right from what I’ve seen, wouldn’t pick the fruit or veg I would etc. We did a big drink order once and they couldn’t even get that right, arrived with about half less than half the stuff, charged more than the price was on the day we ordered on some of it etc, useless.

Been using it since the beginning of June at least once a week. Haven't had an order wrong yet and we've had all of their delivery drivers (they have 9 for the Galway region). You have an option of electing to use substitutes or not. If they are out of something you order on the day of the scheduled delivery they can substitute it with an equivalent product for the same price. We've received more expensive brands because they were out of what we ordered.

Twice, they were just completely out of something and no substitute was available. Which is fine, that happens when going into the shop. In that case we just pick it up closer to home or hold off until next week's delivery.

My wife thinks the fruit and veg is fresher through the delivery service than what you get in Tesco's shop, in Dunnes, Aldi or even the Fruit and Veg stalls by Dunnes and Tesco. I think it's the case because they take from the stock in the back rather than the shelves so you tend to get the freshest stock available.

They also have a freezer in the van. So nothing thaws on the way to the house, needing to then be frozen again.

It sounds over the top but it has changed our lives for the better. We put in the order when watching TV on Sunday night. It means no need to put the kids into the car and spending a couple of hours at least trying to get the shopping done. It means we can go hike back by the Lake on the weekend instead of shopping or go away and not worry about having food for the kid's lunches, dinner etc.

For anyone else reading. Try it out, it's class.

Wompa1

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You clearly have no idea what proportion of the population don't even have a bank account.

Also about the needs of children. A city I know well tried using debt style cards which could be used for small convenience store purchases too. Absolute disaster: kids used the whole week's bus money to buy sweets on Monday.

Why not both? Pay my debit card or use a Leap card? Give you kids a leap card, those who don't have a debit card can use a Leap card and those who want to be able to use the bus every once in a while who can't be arsed with a Leap card can pay with a debit card. Also, keep cash as an option. The more options, the more convenient it becomes and the more attractive it will be to people.

ben.schlomo

Deja vu post after deja vu post in here.

timmyntc

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You clearly have no idea what proportion of the population don't even have a bank account.

Also about the needs of children. A city I know well tried using debt style cards which could be used for small convenience store purchases too. Absolute disaster: kids used the whole week's bus money to buy sweets on Monday.

:rolleyes: So because children might spend all their money on sweets, or pensioners don't have bank accounts, we have to persist using cash on buses to the detriment of everyone else?

Cash is archaic and has no place in a modern urban transit system - it's simply too slow. There should be no interaction with the driver on city buses whatsoever - just tap on and tap off - be it with a leapcard or a debit/credit card.

As said before numerous times - the same system works in London brilliantly.