Galway's traffic issues

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

. I haven't suggested any changes to the bus system.
I'm suggesting that it's probably more efficient to have a system that allows a more continuous flow of pedestrians and cars than the stop-start system that traffic lights bring. Every change of the lights brings in a delay. Those 52 aren't all going to cross at the same time (some people take longer to get off the bus and start moving than others) so you'll have multiple changes of the lights and so multiple delays. t

You've suggested changes to the road that cars use. Buses use the same road. Therefore you're suggested changes to the buses.

As a pedestrian I want times when I know the traffic will stop. It's bad enough having to watch for bicycles all the time. Having to watch for non stopping cars would be crazy making.

The only exception is at very small one lanes intersection eg Cross and Quay Streets. Anything wider than that, not a hope.

tototoe

Spent two days in Galway recently and do ye know what might actually help Galway's traffic...some bloody decent sign posts... And the ones that are there, are in stupid locations. More or less on the roundabouts, and not before them, so you have no idea which lane or turn to take.

Don't know the names of streets and roads, but the road by the Galway shopping centre, there's one sign at a big traffic light intersection and most of it is missing ...so yep ..not a clue what lane to be in, or where the turns will take you.

The amount of on street parking on some very narrow roads and streets is baffling tbh. Throw in cyclists to the mix and it's bonkers.

For a touristy town it's an absolute night mare of a place to drive in if you don't know where you are going...

zell12

tototoe wrote: »

Spent two days in Galway recently and do ye know what might actually help Galway's traffic....

Thanks observant caller.
And our signposts regularly get knocked down and not replaced Even a major traffic control panel was knocked out at a junction, causing disruption for days.

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You've suggested changes to the road that cars use. Buses use the same road. Therefore you're suggested changes to the buses.

As a pedestrian I want times when I know the traffic will stop. It's bad enough having to watch for bicycles all the time. Having to watch for non stopping cars would be crazy making.

The only exception is at very small one lanes intersection eg Cross and Quay Streets. Anything wider than that, not a hope.

No there's no changes to the buses in my suggestion. No route changes. No stop changes. Same roads, same junctions, no new type of traffic control. Its all stuff that exists already.
You'll have the same security in traffic stopping as you currently do. A red light isn't some magic barrier. I've seen my kids nearly run over by people who have decided that red lights aren't for them. There is zero guarantee that drivers will stop for you no matter what lights are around. And I dunno what a cyclist did to you in a former life but your paranoia about them being out to get you must be exhausting.

So what's your suggestions for improving traffic Bumble? You're all over these threads rubbishing every suggestion for changes but never offering what you think will work. Or are you happy with how things currently are?

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

They can keep them and drive back to the lowly populated areas. But not to the city centres, sorry pedestrians only. The city centres belong to the people. It's ridiculous that I have to be explaining this. Have you not ever visited Europe or what? Even England.

I’m regularly in many European cities for work and I see cars in every single one with some pedestrian streets here and there like we have with shop street. It’s nonsense to suggest that “cities are for people” and not acknowledge that cars are part of life for “people”. You would get close to zero support from anyone for such a proposal.

On a side note the biggest thing that stands out to me about European cities particularly those in the Netherlands is the absolute pain in the arse and downright danger of bikes cycling where ever they want. It’s an absolute joke flying everywhere on footpaths and anywhere that is pedestrianized is just a sea of bikes. I’d much rather have to cross a road with cars than put up with that sort of bull.

xckjoo

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

I’m regularly in many European cities for work and I see cars in every single one with some pedestrian streets here and there like we have with shop street. It’s nonsense to suggest that “cities are for people” and not acknowledge that cars are part of life for “people”. You would get close to zero support from anyone for such a proposal.

On a side note the biggest thing that stands out to me about European cities particularly those in the Netherlands is the absolute pain in the arse and downright danger of bikes cycling where ever they want. It’s an absolute joke flying everywhere on footpaths and anywhere that is pedestrianized is just a sea of bikes. I’d much rather have to cross a road with cars than put up with that sort of bull.

Those bikes are on the bikepaths. You're walking on bikepaths....


Ironically the Netherlands have such a strong cycling infrastructure due to public push back on all the deaths from people being hit by cars in the 70's. So the bikes everywhere have proven to be safer than your ideal of cars everywhere.

I don't think people should be cycling in pedestrianised areas though. The people that cycle down Shop Street on a busy day are the height of ignorant.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Those bikes are on the bikepaths. You're walking on bikepaths....

.

Most certainly not bike paths, I’m talking about walking along the equivalent of shop street and it’s a chaotic mess of bikes going everywhere and bells ringing at people walking etc. bikes cycle on every footpath in the Netherlands it’s a far more hostile place to be a pedestrian than Galway imo you have no comfort whatsoever walking around over there with bikes.

xckjoo

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Most certainly not bike paths, I’m talking about walking along the equivalent of shop street and it’s a chaotic mess of bikes going everywhere and bells ringing at people walking etc. bikes cycle on every footpath in the Netherlands it’s a far more hostile place to be a pedestrian than Galway imo you have no comfort whatsoever walking around over there with bikes.

Not my experience with the paths. All the ones I saw were segregated into walking and cycling parts. Or shared between pedestrians, bikes and cars equally. Only time I heard bells were when someone was in the bike lane or shared part. Also heard some car horn toots there though. Less of them because you'll hear a car coming. This kind of shared space is what I'd like to see more of in Galway. Focus on moving volumes of people instead of just cars.



Back to my other point, I think it's hard to claim somewhere is more hostile when the new approach has been shown to reduce the risk of death. Is there some injury related stats I'm not aware of?

ben.schlomo

xckjoo wrote: »

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Most certainly not bike paths, I’m talking about walking along the equivalent of shop street and it’s a chaotic mess of bikes going everywhere and bells ringing at people walking etc. bikes cycle on every footpath in the Netherlands it’s a far more hostile place to be a pedestrian than Galway imo you have no comfort whatsoever walking around over there with bikes.

Not my experience with the paths. All the ones I saw were segregated into walking and cycling parts. Or shared between pedestrians, bikes and cars equally. Only time I heard bells were when someone was in the bike lane or shared part. Also heard some car horn toots there though. Less of them because you'll hear a car coming. This kind of shared space is what I'd like to see more of in Galway. Focus on moving volumes of people instead of just cars.



Back to my other point, I think it's hard to claim somewhere is more hostile when the new approach has been shown to reduce the risk of death. Is there some injury related stats I'm not aware of?

I remember lots of pedestrians and cyclists getting on just fine in Maastricht when there, don't recall any cyclists mounting footpaths and mowing people down either! More shared space the better, Lough Atalia a prime candidate for this with its wide footpath.

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

The 9% isn't an issue in itself. The issue is that major, arterial bus routes (whatever they are) either don't have bus lanes or don't have continuous bus lanes. That's a minimum requirement for the PT service to operate in a overloaded road traffic scenario.

True - but it is a simple stat to show how lowly valued public transport is by Galway City Council. Nothing added to that 9% in the last 5 years.

what_traffic

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

On a side note the biggest thing that stands out to me about European cities particularly those in the Netherlands is the absolute pain in the arse and downright danger of bikes cycling where ever they want. It’s an absolute joke flying everywhere on footpaths and anywhere that is pedestrianized is just a sea of bikes. I’d much rather have to cross a road with cars than put up with that sort of bull.

Its because the Car Culture is so strongly embedded in you nox00. Living in rural Galway where ya have to drive everywhere and driving into Galway City on a regular basis will do that to ya. Doubt ya hear the locals complain like you were moaning about it? They are used to it. Its the norm there. Would they exchange for the Netherlands of the 1960s? Nope. Cleaner air, public health benefits, Congestion, Effeciency etc etc

Ashleigh1986

For a proper bus service , bus lanes need to be in place around the city center.
No bus lane on lough atalia .
No bus lane on college road .
No bus lane on bohermore .
No bus lane on headford road.
No bus lane on tuam road .
A bus company cannot give a proper on time service if it's stuck in the same traffic as regular vecihcles .
There are 2 options to put bus lanes on those roads .
(1) make them one way .... And put a bus lane in
(2) buy people's front gardens and put them in .
The 2nd option ain't going to happen so the city council if it's serious about providing a proper bus service needs to look at making a lot of the roads one way.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Its the norm there. Would they exchange for the Netherlands of the 1960s? Nope. Cleaner air, public health benefits, Congestion, Effeciency etc etc

Oversight - forgot to include the 2 main reasons they started going the way of the bike in the Netherlands from the 1970s onwards. All the children dying on the roads. Either as pedestrians or on bicycles. 2nd the Oil Crisis in the early 70's. That is why they have the infrastructure they have today.

McGiver

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

McGiver wrote: »

They can keep them and drive back to the lowly populated areas. But not to the city centres, sorry pedestrians only. The city centres belong to the people. It's ridiculous that I have to be explaining this. Have you not ever visited Europe or what? Even England.

I’m regularly in many European cities for work and I see cars in every single one with some pedestrian streets here and there like we have with shop street. It’s nonsense to suggest that “cities are for people” and not acknowledge that cars are part of life for “people”. You would get close to zero support from anyone for such a proposal.

This is blatantly untrue. Nowhere have I seen such a small city spiked through so many cars and roads, even in larger cities if I take proportionality into account. Highly pedestrianised cities are the norm.

And you're totally wrong about what people living in the city want, you don't live there so you can't and won't have any idea. City centre full of cars, traffic jams, noise and pollution is certainly not what people want.

Look, let me try explaining this to you, because you don't seem to get it. I'll give you an example, an analogy. You live in a rural area, right, in a village or in a one-off half an acre, right.

In the same way, you don't want to have a bloody tractors running around your front and back porch where your kids spend their time and you do your gardening, we the urban people living in the city, do not want your noisy, vibrating, carcinogenic exhaust emitting, 1.5 tonne weighting, deadly machinery roaming around the best places in the city where we and our families hang out, have a good time, where we go to pubs, cafés, cinemas, theatres, where our kids play and go to school. We want clean, safe, high quality space the same way you want to have it at your one-off residence. The city belongs to us and we'll reclaim it.

Mrs OBumble

xckjoo wrote: »

No there's no changes to the buses in my suggestion. No route changes. No stop changes. Same roads, same junctions, no new type of traffic control. Its all stuff that exists already.

Your proposal was explicitly to change the nature of the pedestrian crossing outside the railway station. The road that this is on is used by many, many buses. It is of course a change to the type of traffic control.

xckjoo wrote: »

So what's your suggestions for improving traffic Bumble? You're all over these threads rubbishing every suggestion for changes but never offering what you think will work. Or are you happy with how things currently are?

Your memory must be short: I've posted extensively on how I'd approach things, several times - one from 2018 is here.

What I said there was ...

Firstly, amalgamate the city and county councils. The city has had to put up with far too many dodgy planning decisions - eg Parkmore - where the county dumps a large facility just outside the boundary which creates a traffic nightmare inside the city. (This is first because some of my other plans require county co-operation.)

Now, on to demand-management. (It's like other environmental initiates ... reduce, reuse, recycle ... and the greatest of these is reduce.)

We know that school holidays have the largest impact on traffic - so this where the biggest gains can be made. Create school zones (based on public transport corridors and safe walking routes), and give every child the right to attend their in-zone school(s). Provide free public transport for in-zone kids attending their own school (including facilitated "walking-buses", cycling-groups, and real buses for longer journeys). Kids are welcome to attend out-of-zone schools (least restrictive option) - but they don't get free transport.

Introduce a progressive payroll tax, based on the distance between an employee's home and their regular place of work: the further away they live, the higher the tax. Except that it goes to zero if the employee has and uses a TaxSaver ticket.

Decline all planning applications from rural areas, unless they're accompanied by a solid business case showing that the working-age adults who are to be accommodated there can and will be supported by economic activity on the land. Make such activity a condition that's attached to the title (however that's done legally). [Because - we need to stop growth in the number of people who have no choices but to use a car.]

Now some specific tactics:

Change the plan for Ardaun: make the first phase in the block of land immediately behind Oranmore railway station, and have the train as the major public-transport provision here. Make the block of land that the Galway Clinic is in Phase 2. Upgrade the existing and make at least one additional bridge over the dual carriageways to provide non-car access.

Remove all parking from Eglington Street, except for areas that can be used 7pm - 7am by delivery vehicles, residents and guests. (Least restrictive option to let peak time buses flow. If the gains aren't enough, then limit individual vehicle access at peak hours. But don't limit it at off peak hours - that's just going to annoy people unnecessarily and make journeys longer. )

Build a second bridge over the Corrib. The road network is too fragile without it.

Build park-and-ride hubs at Oranmore railway station, Parkmore. somewhere a good distance out the Headford Rd and somewhere Moycullenish (I don't know either direction well enough to suggest sites.) Figure out where people coming from these areas are actually going to and have buses going there - integrated into the standard city-bus system. (Make the buses viable by having them enable lots of possible journeys - not just one restricted route.)

Pilot an orbital bus-route between Salthill and Newcastle. (I know there's demand for that one, it's asked about most years.) Extend it further (eg Barna to Liosbaun / Ballybrit and maybe even Parkmore) based on analysing employer payroll address data. Give employees the opportunity to add key extra data to this - eg "Knocknacarra to Parkmore via a childminder in Renmore" - there will always be some journeys that are only really car-viable.


Investigate some more through roads between Collge Rd and Bohermore. If these are possible, look at a one-way-with-bus-lane system on these roads.

Further things I'd add include after another year to think about it:

Pilot an orbital bus from Claregalway to Oranmre (or even Clarenbridge) - via Parkmore / Ballybrit industrial / Liosbaun / GMIT / Galway Clinic. This might conflict with the park-and-ride idea, but I'm increasingly thinking that it's traffic from the east, not the west, that's the key the our issues.

Also, given the growth in cycling popularity in the last year, I'd put in some large secure bicycle parks at the end of the city-centre, and take a far harder line on people riding on footpaths or pedestrian streets inside this, and also totally ban parking on footpaths. (Acknowledging that the council have recently explanded official cycle parking through the city city centre).

McGiver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Also, given the growth in cycling popularity in the last year, I'd put in some large secure bicycle parks at the end of the city-centre, and take a far harder line on people riding on footpaths or pedestrian streets inside this, and also totally ban parking on footpaths.

Bikes aren't allowed on the footpaths. It's a law and in the rules of road. It's just not enforced. Like everything else related to the traffic.

Total ban on parking bikes on footpaths makes no sense. This is not the case even in Copenhagen or Amsterdam where there are 30%+ commutes on the bike and bikes count in millions. The point of using a bike is that you can park it anywhere!

I agree larger bike parks are needed, the one at Eyre Square is too small. But not "at the end", on the contrary. Also they should be smaller ones thrown all around the citily centre as well.

(Acknowledging that the council have recently explanded official cycle parking through the city city centre).

Really? Whereabouts?

xckjoo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Your proposal was explicitly to change the nature of the pedestrian crossing outside the railway station. The road that this is on is used by many, many buses. It is of course a change to the type of traffic control.

Yes. Changed to the type is exactly what I said. Not some new type. No change to the bus system as you were originally claiming.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Your memory must be short: I've posted extensively on how I'd approach things, several times - one from 2018 is here.

What I said there was ...

You are indeed correct. I don't remember some post you made over a year ago! Not sure that means I have to worry about memory loss yet though. Don't think "memory of random internet persons post from a year ago" will be on the alzheimers test any time soon.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Further things I'd add include after another year to think about it:

Pilot an orbital bus from Claregalway to Oranmre (or even Clarenbridge) - via Parkmore / Ballybrit industrial / Liosbaun / GMIT / Galway Clinic. This might conflict with the park-and-ride idea, but I'm increasingly thinking that it's traffic from the east, not the west, that's the key the our issues.

Also, given the growth in cycling popularity in the last year, I'd put in some large secure bicycle parks at the end of the city-centre, and take a far harder line on people riding on footpaths or pedestrian streets inside this, and also totally ban parking on footpaths. (Acknowledging that the council have recently explanded official cycle parking through the city city centre).

Some interesting ideas but a few things stand out. Number 1) you want buses everywhere (good) but no mention of increasing the number of bus lanes around the city (except for some vague comment about if the find new roads between Bohermore and College Rd. Am I reading that right? Are you proposing building roads through peoples houses? ). People won't take the bus if they have to sit in the same traffic as if they drove. There's no incentive to take it.

2) I like most of school ideas but don't think the local council can force schools to accept kids because of where they live. I don't think we're set up that way legally. Also, weird that you're suggesting cycling groups for schools last year but you were complaining about the cycle bus in that thread. Maybe your memory is going too...

3) I don't think local councils can create taxes but happy to be corrected on that. They definitely can't access their payroll information to find out where people live. GDPR and all that. They have already commissioned a presumably expensive (they always seem to be expensive) report of peoples daily journeys in Galway. It's been posted here several times. They didn't seem to think a new bridge would make a long lasting change.

4) agree with the need for increase in places to lock bikes and would like to see an increase in enforcement of no cycling on paths, etc. but only if there's proper infrastructure put in place beforehand. Just ticketing people for cycling on the path will not improve Galway traffic. But you seem to be against any changes that would allow for these improvements so not sure what you want done there.

yer man!

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Most certainly not bike paths, I’m talking about walking along the equivalent of shop street and it’s a chaotic mess of bikes going everywhere and bells ringing at people walking etc. bikes cycle on every footpath in the Netherlands it’s a far more hostile place to be a pedestrian than Galway imo you have no comfort whatsoever walking around over there with bikes.

I live in the Netherlands, It's illegal to cycle on any footpath or any pedestrian only designated area. I do agree that some towns have a bit too many shared spaces with pedestrians and bicycles mixing but that is not in that many towns here. For the most part it's works very well, people cycle as close as possible to the pedestrianised areas and park their bikes to do some shopping.

And just to throw it out there, I have a lot of coworkers that live far out from cities out in the sticks, they rely on their car here but they don't dream of driving in to the city, they drive to the train and get on there or drive to the nearest bus stop and get the bus in. It helps that there's a train every 15 minutes around where I am and the buses are no less frequent than every half hour even in the remote areas around me. Some people do venture into the city and park but it's incredibly expensive so it's a none runner.

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

I agree larger bike parks are needed, the one at Eyre Square is too small. But not "at the end", on the contrary. Also they should be smaller ones thrown all around the city centre as well.

100% correct - lumping all bike parking in one spot is classic car culture mentality. Loads of streets in the City that have on-street car parking have no bike parking at all. Thats where ya start. Take 1/2 car parking spots on every street and convert to the more efficient mode.
1 Car = 10 Bikes

Kingp35

what_traffic wrote: »

100% correct - lumping all bike parking in one spot is classic car culture mentality. Loads of streets in the City that have on-street car parking have no bike parking at all. Thats where ya start. Take 1/2 car parking spots on every street and convert to the more efficient mode.
1 Car = 10 Bikes

I don't know about you but I would NEVER lock my bike at on street bike parking. Too many bikes are stolen these days. It's not worth the risk.

topcat77

i only take my rat bike into town. To much stress leaving the good bike locked and ready to be stolen.

what_traffic

Kingp35 wrote: »

I don't know about you but I would NEVER lock my bike at on street bike parking. Too many bikes are stolen these days. It's not worth the risk.

Are you based in Galway City? Been doing it for 20 years in Galway City using the few stands that are available - never an issue to date. Sheffield Stand and decent lock works.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Look, let me try explaining this to you, because you don't seem to get it. I'll give you an example, an analogy. You live in a rural area, right, in a village or in a one-off half an acre, right.

In the same way, you don't want to have a bloody tractors running around your front and back porch where your kids spend their time and you do your gardening, we the urban people living in the city, do not want your noisy, vibrating, carcinogenic exhaust emitting, 1.5 tonne weighting, deadly machinery roaming around the best places in the city where we and our families hang out, have a good time, where we go to pubs, caf cinemas, theatres, where our kids play and go to school. We want clean, safe, high quality space the same way you want to have it at your one-off residence.

The city belongs to us and we'll reclaim it.

It's a terrible analogy. You want to live in a city for various reasons but that means you accept that you own or rent a tiny area and that everything around you is public and fair game for everyone including those who need to or want to drive into or around the city.

We not only own the acre or where our house is built but also all the surrounding land and not only that but even the road is privately owned between us and two other land owners. This gives us the right to decide who drives up to our porch, its private property. Our own tractor and multiple cars drive right up to our back door so we do in fact have all these things around our house but the difference is it's ours or those we permit entry to as again its private property. Same for the road outside our front gate, there is regular movement of cars and machinery between ourselves and the other landowners so trying to claim there is no vehicle movement is nonsensical. But as our choice to live in the country means it's the front gate of our large fully enclosed property they drive past not our front door.

McGiver wrote: »

The city belongs to us and we'll reclaim it.

As above this is where you are sadly mistaken, the city belongs to me as much as it belongs to you, it is public space. our property belongs to us giving us the right to dictate what happens on it you do not have any such right. I have as much a right to want to be able to drive my car in the city as you have to try and stop me.

I don't complain that I can't walk to the shop, restaurant or to work as the advantages of living in the country far out-weight these minor inconveniences. You on the other had want to do these things but you have to be willing to put up with the disadvantage which is busy streets, cars, tiny house etc. You can't have it both ways.

yer man!

Kingp35 wrote: »

I don't know about you but I would NEVER lock my bike at on street bike parking. Too many bikes are stolen these days. It's not worth the risk.

Not to drone on about the Netherlands but there's a lot to be learned from they way they do it here. Almost everyone has two bikes, a cheap one and a decent one. The cheap one is the one that is parked at the station or around the town, if it's stolen it's no big deal. Bike theft is rampant here but you can literally get a second hand bike from a shop for €70. I myself rent my bicycle, if it's stolen I have to pay €40 to replace it.

xckjoo

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

It's a terrible analogy. You want to live in a city for various reasons but that means you accept that you own or rent a tiny area and that everything around you is public and fair game for everyone including those who need to or want to drive into or around the city.

We not only own the acre or where our house is built but also all the surrounding land and not only that but even the road is privately owned between us and two other land owners. This gives us the right to decide who drives up to our porch, its private property. Our own tractor and multiple cars drive right up to our back door so we do in fact have all these things around our house but the difference is it's ours or those we permit entry to as again its private property. Same for the road outside our front gate, there is regular movement of cars and machinery between ourselves and the other landowners so trying to claim there is no vehicle movement is nonsensical. But as our choice to live in the country means it's the front gate of our large fully enclosed property they drive past not our front door.



As above this is where you are sadly mistaken, the city belongs to me as much as it belongs to you, it is public space. our property belongs to us giving us the right to dictate what happens on it you do not have any such right. I have as much a right to want to be able to drive my car in the city as you have to try and stop me.

I don't complain that I can't walk to the shop, restaurant or to work as the advantages of living in the country far out-weight these minor inconveniences. You on the other had want to do these things but you have to be willing to put up with the disadvantage which is busy streets, cars, tiny house etc. You can't have it both ways.

Would ya complain if they replaced the current national road that you use once you leave your private road with one that doubles the amount of time it takes you to get from your house to the shops, etc? I bet you would. And that's what us city dwelling folk are faced with. Takes twice as long to get anywhere because of terrible planning. I spent longer waiting to cross roads than actually moving when I walk into town from my house.

We should be focussed on moving volumes of people not cars. In the country, cars are probably still the most efficient ways to move people due to the low population density. In a city they're the least efficient way of moving people around.

xckjoo

xckjoo wrote: »

Would ya complain if they replaced the current national road that you use once you leave your private road with one that doubles the amount of time it takes you to get from your house to the shops, etc? I bet you would. And that's what us city dwelling folk are faced with. Takes twice as long to get anywhere because of terrible planning. I spent longer waiting to cross roads than actually moving when I walk into town from my house.

All the suggestions such as banning cars, reducing road space, forcing park and ride etc are doing just what you suggest making my drive to work or city shops (I have a local town a few miles away I don’t rely on the city for shops) slower and far more inconvenient hence why I do complain about such proposals and can see why the bypass is the most important thing that can happen for Galway traffic.

If you choose to live in the city you put up with things like traffic but to be honest walking around the city center I never feel anyway inconvenienced by traffic, I don’t wait around for green men or any of that sort of stuff so get across roads fast always etc I just don’t see any big deal from traffic for walking.

what_traffic

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

All the suggestions such as banning cars, reducing road space, forcing park and ride etc are doing just what you suggest making my drive to work or city shops slower and far more inconvenient hence why I do complain about such proposals and can see why the bypass is the most important thing that can happen for Galway traffic.

Ya this is the debate thats needed. We do need to make Galway City convenient for the people who live here first.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Ya this is the debate thats needed. We do need to make Galway City convenient for the people who live here first.

Incorrect, The city is no more for the people who live there than it is for anyone who comes into it to work or shop.

what_traffic

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Incorrect, the city is no more for the people who live there than it is for anyone who comes into it to work or shop.

No you are incorrect.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

No you are incorrect.

What additional rights to publicly owned roads and spaces to people living in the city have, not something I’ve ever come across...

If anything is those who find it harder to get into the city that should be prioritized, it will always be easy for city dwellers to do things like get to the shops a few mins extra to cross a road is meaningless.