ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

Danzy

jmreire wrote: »

How Germany handles ex-isis returnees:
Jennifer Wenisch is on trial in Germany accused of war crimes while a member of isis in Mozul, Iraq. She is charged with allowing a 5 year old Yazidi child to die of thirst out in the sun. They ( herself and her husband) bought the Yazidi child and it's mother at a slave auction, and they ill-treated them both, with the child dying. She is the 1st woman returnee to be charged, so I would guess that male isis member's will already have been charged?
She faces the following charges:
Murder.
Murder as a War Crime.
Membership of a terrorist organisation,
Violations of the German War Weapons Control Act.
If convicted, she faces a maximum term of Life Imprisonment.
Now that's what I call a proper response !!! Go Germany, Go !!

That case is an exception though.

jmreire

Danzy wrote: »

That case is an exception though.

As it says, it's the first time for a woman to be charged in Germany with crimes committed in a different Country by isis... So at least its a start....Personally, I dont think that it will be the last though, and if I was a card carrying member of isis, and also a German citizen currently residing in Hassakeh .....I would be getting worried about repatriation. For sure, by now the German Government know exactly how many German citizen's are in Hassakeh. And I don't think either that there will be too many escapees from there. So the outlook for more trials is looking very good. I wonder if our Lisa has any German ancestry ???

recedite

She is not convicted yet, and its very unlikely that others would be put on trial.
You'd have to find the survivor or a witness to a specific crime event (the dead Yazidi girl's mother, maybe, in this case?) and they would have to identify the criminal. Even then it would be one person's word against another, unless there were multiple surviving witnesses.
This woman is not on trial for general IS membership/citizenship.

jmreire

recedite wrote: »

She is not convicted yet, and its very unlikely that others would be put on trial.
You'd have to find the survivor or a witness to a specific crime event (the dead Yazidi girl's mother, maybe, in this case?) and they would have to identify the criminal. Even then it would be one person's word against another, unless there were multiple surviving witnesses.
This woman is not on trial for general IS membership/citizenship.

No, she is on trial for murdering a 5 year old child by not giving it water while leaving it tied up out in the desert sun. She is also accused of being a member of a terrorist organisation, having a gun ( she was a member of the religious police) beating both the Baby and it's mother, and holding a gun to the mothers head. The Germans would not have brought her to trial in the first place, unless they had the evidence to convict her, IMHO. I hope that she is the first of many to be tried for their crimes. There have been several male isis members convicted so far. She must have been one of the ones who got out before the final battle at Baghuz....even long before it, because had she been captured by the Kurds., her trial would have finished a long time ago.

malinheader

Letting a child die of thirst in the sun. A bullet to the head would be more fitting than a court case. Scum bas-ard.

conorhal

https://www.thejournal.ie/lisa-smith-warnings-islamic-state-4581648-Apr2019/

In what constitutes a surprise to ...absulutely no-one, it seems that collegues who raised concerns about Lisa Smith's radicalization were told 'that's waysist!' and their concerns were brushed under the carpet.

"At least four former members of the Defence Forces say they voiced their concerns, with two of them claiming their warnings were met with advice that what they were saying could be construed as bullying or discriminatory behaviour."

And then people wonder how abuse like Rotherham happened? Same way that it always does folks, because those in charge are more concerned with optics and being able to crow about the first female muslim to occupy her position then they are with doing the right thing. Our pathetically craven and unprincipled leaders are sleepwalking us into a nightmare and need a sever kick in the ballots.

It would also seem that whistle-blowers are about as welcome in the army as they are in the Guards....

ohnonotgmail

conorhal wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/lisa-smith-warnings-islamic-state-4581648-Apr2019/

In what constitutes a surprise to ...absulutely no-one, it seems that collegues who raised concerns about Lisa Smith's radicalization were told 'that's waysist!' and their concerns were brushed under the carpet.

"At least four former members of the Defence Forces say they voiced their concerns, with two of them claiming their warnings were met with advice that what they were saying could be construed as bullying or discriminatory behaviour."

And then people wonder how abuse like Rotherham happened? Same way that it always does folks, because those in charge are more concerned with optics and being able to crow about the first female muslim to occupy her position then they are with doing the right thing. Our pathetically craven and unprincipled leaders are sleepwalking us into a nightmare and need a sever kick in the ballots.

It would also seem that whistle-blowers are about as welcome in the army as they are in the Guards....

I dont see any mention of racism in that article.

recedite

conorhal wrote: »

And then people wonder how abuse like Rotherham happened? Same way that it always does folks, because those in charge are more concerned with optics and being able to crow about the first female muslim to occupy her position then they are with doing the right thing.

Nail on head!
They probably already had their design team working on the green hijabs and turbans, and were dreaming of the photoshoot when these would be modeled for the first time, in front of adoring RTE and Irish Times journalists.

jmreire

So back even then, the warning lights were flashing......I seem to remember reading somewhere that one of the reasons she left the Army, was because she not allowed to wear Islamic women's clothing, and the Koran forbid's women to be in close proximity to unrelated males unless they are suitably covered.
So slowly slowly, the story is growing.....

wellwhynot

Doesn’t say much for our defence forces that they failed to investigate her despite multiple reports. You couldn’t make it up.

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

They are a terrorist organisation and she's a full fledged member making her a terrorist

So tell me when did you come to the conclusion that Syria is infested with foreign terrorists?

I have a lot of history with you Gatling on various Syria threads over the past few years as you well know and I can categorically say that you have been a supporter and apologist of the head choppers. NOT ONCE did you ever call them 'terrorists' until this thread. Why is this?
You are welcome to prove me wrong and find me a post in your history where you called the jihadists in Syria 'terrorists'.

Danzy

wellwhynot wrote: »

Doesn’t say much for our defence forces that they failed to investigate her despite multiple reports. You couldn’t make it up.

It is like how Labour in England helped push a cover up of mass rape, still do, make it too hot to handle.

jmreire

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

So tell me when did you come to the conclusion that Syria is infested with foreign terrorists?

I have a lot of history with you Gatling on various Syria threads over the past few years as you well know and I can categorically say that you have been a supporter and apologist of the head choppers. NOT ONCE did you ever call them 'terrorists' until this thread. Why is this?
You are welcome to prove me wrong and find me a post in your history where you called the jihadists in Syria 'terrorists'.

The war in Syria started in 2011 in the city of HOMS, when people took to the streets to protest against the regime, and to seek change. This is well documented. When it escalated to a full blown war, other groups jumped on the war wagon....Al-Qaeda and ISIS being two of the main actors,but the Free Syrian Army was there too, as were the Kurd's, Iranian's etc. There were occasions when the FSA and Al-Qaeda actually joined force's against the common enemy. But these were not the head-chopping, burning alive mutilators that isis were. So while there were head chopping terrorists there, not all of them were in that category. Of all of the faction's that were there, isis were the most murderous sub-human's.

Elmer Blooker

jmreire wrote: »

The war in Syria started in 2011 in the city of HOMS, when people took to the streets to protest against the regime, and to seek change. This is well documented. When it escalated to a full blown war, other groups jumped on the war wagon....Al-Qaeda and ISIS being two of the main actors,but the Free Syrian Army was there too, as were the Kurd's, Iranian's etc. There were occasions when the FSA and Al-Qaeda actually joined force's against the common enemy. But these were not the head-chopping, burning alive mutilators that isis were. So while there were head chopping terrorists there, not all of them were in that category. Of all of the faction's that were there, isis were the most murderous sub-human's.

The Free Syrian Army were only a front for sending arms to Syria, once the weapons crossed into Syria it didn't matter who's hands they fell into, the goal was to remove Assad by any means and if jihadists had to do the dirty work who cared?
Jihadists in Afghanistan in the 1980s were called 'freedom fighters' by Reagan and the media, 30 years later jihadists in Syria were called 'moderates' etc. The FSA was a myth and only existed in the coffee houses of Istanbul.

jmreire

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The Free Syrian Army were only a front for sending arms to Syria, once the weapons crossed into Syria it didn't matter who's hands they fell into, the goal was to remove Assad by any means and if jihadists had to do the dirty work who cared?
Jihadists in Afghanistan in the 1980s were called 'freedom fighters' by Reagan and the media, 30 years later jihadists in Syria were called 'moderates' etc. The FSA was a myth and only existed in the coffee houses of Istanbul.

Elmer, I have a fairly good idea what was going on in Syria, but the point I am trying to make here is that not all who fought in Syria, were head-chopping, burning alive sub-human terrorists.....unless you consider everyone who carried weapons was a terrorist?

Signore Fancy Pants

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The Free Syrian Army were only a front for sending arms to Syria,

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The FSA was a myth and only existed in the coffee houses of Istanbul.

Continue...

...what film was that last quote from?

AllForIt

https://news.sky.com/story/jail-for-britons-in-terror-hotspots-face-10-years-in-jail-no-matter-who-they-fight-for-11691332

New law introduced in the UK which could result in those returning to the UK from predesignated 'banned' areas spending up to 10 years in prison, excluding journalists etc. Introduced in part because of the difficulty of finding proof of wrongdoing by those ppl in foreign lands when they return. Unfortunately it won't apply to those who have already left the UK.

A bit late but it's still welcome. I'm just waiting for someone to say it discriminates against genuine Islamic converts who simply wish to join a Caliphate.

Atoms for Peace

If the defence forces had given her the sack they would have left themselves wide open to a religious descrimination case and a hefty payout.

Boggles

AllForIt wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/jail-for-britons-in-terror-hotspots-face-10-years-in-jail-no-matter-who-they-fight-for-11691332

New law introduced in the UK which could result in those returning to the UK from predesignated 'banned' areas spending up to 10 years in prison, excluding journalists etc. Introduced in part because of the difficulty of finding proof of wrongdoing by those ppl in foreign lands when they return. Unfortunately it won't apply to those who have already left the UK.

A bit late but it's still welcome. I'm just waiting for someone to say it discriminates against genuine Islamic converts who simply wish to join a Caliphate.

The law isn't specific to Islam. 14 of the 88 proscribed terrorist organisations are in Northern Ireland, the predesignated areas of travel have yet to be predesignated.

I'm all on for robust anti extreme fundamentalist laws, but this one on paper looks proper bonkers.

Sharing a Rebel song online could get you jailed it would seem.

ChikiChiki

jmreire wrote: »

How Germany handles ex-isis returnees:
Jennifer Wenisch is on trial in Germany accused of war crimes while a member of isis in Mozul, Iraq. She is charged with allowing a 5 year old Yazidi child to die of thirst out in the sun. They ( herself and her husband) bought the Yazidi child and it's mother at a slave auction, and they ill-treated them both, with the child dying. She is the 1st woman returnee to be charged, so I would guess that male isis member's will already have been charged?
She faces the following charges:
Murder.
Murder as a War Crime.
Membership of a terrorist organisation,
Violations of the German War Weapons Control Act.
If convicted, she faces a maximum term of Life Imprisonment.
Now that's what I call a proper response !!! Go Germany, Go !!

I wouldnt be so quick to praise the country that invited all the terrorists back to Europe...

mvl

Boggles wrote: »

I'm all on for robust anti extreme fundamentalist laws, but this one on paper looks proper bonkers.

Maybe this is where we are wrong, fundamentalist is still fundamentalist no matter the degree - so moderates are enabling the extremists too ! Quote from link
Many middle-eastern background men and women, who live in the West, clearly understand the subtle lies of Muslim leaders who claim to be moderates. Unfortunately, many of them keep quiet and do not speak out for religious, cultural, political and social reasons. They know it is these so-called moderate Muslim leaders who pave the way for the law of Islam and radicals.
- Assuming the New Zealand Centre for political research is a reputable source.

Tea drinker

So after backing the rebels in Syria, Libya NATO has surely seen the error of it's ways? Well, no.
We can rewind back to Kosovo to when NATO (German BND among others) was training the rebels in terrorist methods, supplying sniper rifles and training in same.
But surely that's it we learned our lesson? Well no... we also facilitted the airlift of Al Qaida and Hizbollah to Bosnia to carry out terrorist attacks there.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/22/warcrimes.comment

The West is in love with Islamic terrorism. It will never stop arming and using them and NATO and no European government will be held to account. Same as today, arm every POS guy we can find. Then send the NGO down to pickup the terrrorists in the Med.
This is *after* ISIS (our guys against Gaddaffi) had a head chopping extravaganza killing a load of people on sea shore and announced they were coming with the illegal migrants to EU.
These people (western gov) don't care, because they don't have to care. The gov attitude to this smith woman is just a small symptom in comparison to what they do every day.

Danzy

jmreire wrote: »

Elmer, I have a fairly good idea what was going on in Syria, but the point I am trying to make here is that not all who fought in Syria, were head-chopping, burning alive sub-human terrorists.....unless you consider everyone who carried weapons was a terrorist?

No but the majority of fighters belonged to groups that were.

joeguevara

Dale Doback wrote: »

Continue...

...what film was that last quote from?

Judean people's front or the people's front of Judea?

https://youtu.be/WboggjN_G-4

jmreire

Danzy wrote: »

No but the majority of fighters belonged to groups that were.

Can you tell me what other groups chopped off head's, burnt people alive, bought and sold people as slaves, and had no compunction about slaughtering anyone who did not conform to their brand of Islam?? War is a murderous business, but even in War...there are rule's. isis broke all the rules in the book, and took depravity to a new low.
On the other hand,Given what the Kurds suffered, would you blame them if they slaughtered everyone who came out of Baghuz? Yet they did not, but I guarantee you that if the boot was on the other foot...isis would have killed then all. So there were and are difference's in the fighters in Syria. They are not all head chopping, burning alive sub-humans.

Zorya

I presume this is the thread for details on Begum.

She was supposedly a very strict enforcer in the morality police.
Some say she sewed in suicide bombs to clothing so the bomber could not remove them.

Begum was a member of the Isis morality police, a feared group which enforced the terror organisation’s strict interpretation of Islamic law, according to reports.

The 19-year-old British citizen, who fled her home in Bethnal Green four years ago with two other schoolgirls, has claimed that she was only a “housewife” during her time living with the group in Syria.

But according to a report in The Sunday Telegraph she played a much more active role in the organisation’s reign of terror as a member of the “hisba” – which metes out punishment to those found flouting Isis laws on how to dress and behave.

One activist quoted by the newspaper said Begum had been seen holding an automatic weapon and shouting at Syrian women in the city of Raqqa for wearing brightly coloured shoes.

“Members of our group from Raqqa knew her well,” said Aghiad al-Kheder, an activist from Deir ez-Zor who founded an anti-Isis collective that published information about Isis crimes from sources on the ground.

“There were lots of young European women in the hisba. Some of them were very harsh and the local population became very scared.”

There were separate allegations that Begum stitched suicide bombers into explosive vests, so they could not be removed without detonating.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/shamima-begum-isis-syria-morality-police-suicide-belts-a8869016.html

suicide_circus

...a warning by the United Nations that “jihadi bride” stereotypes were causing female Isis recruits to be dangerously underestimated by global security services

Men and women emerging from the terrorist group’s former territories have largely denied any wrongdoing or claimed coercion, and their true activities are hard to verify.

Isis gave women roles as recruiters, radicalisers and enablers of jihad, and officially permitted them to fight in defence of the “caliphate”.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/shamima-begum-was-member-of-feared-isis-morality-police-in-syria-38013191.html


if these people do come back, they cannot be allowed to fulfill their mission. they need to be isolated from the general population until they no longer present a threat.

biko

Begum, a modern day Ilse Koch?

jmreire

mvl wrote: »

Maybe this is where we are wrong, fundamentalist is still fundamentalist no matter the degree - so moderates are enabling the extremists too ! Quote from link
Many middle-eastern background men and women, who live in the West, clearly understand the subtle lies of Muslim leaders who claim to be moderates. Unfortunately, many of them keep quiet and do not speak out for religious, cultural, political and social reasons. They know it is these so-called moderate Muslim leaders who pave the way for the law of Islam and radicals.
- Assuming the New Zealand Centre for political research is a reputable source.

Democracy will be the death of democracy....:(

malinheader

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/middle-east/shamima-begum-was-member-of-feared-isis-morality-police-in-syria-38013191.html


if these people do come back, they cannot be allowed to fulfill their mission. they need to be isolated from the general population until they no longer present a threat.

Does anyone really think that these scum will ever cease to become a threat. I for one think they will always pose a serious and deadly threat to innocent citizens of which ever country are gullible enough to take them back.