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ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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    #902
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Whether or not she could get citizenship in Bangladesh she may not have it yet. If this is the criteria then people in Britain who are second or third generation immigrants could lose their passports. Have an Irish granny? You’re out.


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    #903
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,266 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Whether or not she could get citizenship in Bangladesh she may not have it yet. If this is the criteria then people in Britain who are second or third generation immigrants could lose their passports. Have an Irish granny? You’re out.


    She is automatically a bangladeshi citizen. What she doesn't have yet is a bangladeshi passport.


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    #904
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Boggles wrote: »
    She wanted it your honor?

    It's a well worn defense by predators all right.

    The law is clear, she was a child, she was groomed.

    Your impression is moot.

    She was a victim of crime, a crime that holds a sentence of up to life in prison and rightly so.

    I think you’re making up that law. Or changing a law that applies to sexual predators to other forms of grooming.

    Anyway once she turned 18 it’s largely irrelevant.


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    #905
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Boggles wrote: »
    They have just turned her from universal villain to some what now of a victim denied her due process.

    Echoed by Conservative MP George Freeman so it's not just "the left".







    I don't know if it is racist, I think that term gets thrown around too much.

    But there definitely is proof that a 2 tier system exists and extreme proof TBF.

    Take Asma al-Assad, wife and PR mouth piece for one of the greatest mass murderers of our generation, Asma still enjoys her British citizenship, but then again she had tea with the Queen.

    FUN FACT: Both Asma and Sajid Javid worked for Deutsche Bank.

    Its a pity ISIS followers like this woman don't share the same vision of human rights and fair play as the West does.

    She hated the West and Western values including human rights, democracy, freedoms, women's rights, and so on. She turned her back on all that when ISIS were flying high.

    Now suddenly she's changed her mind and wants to live in the West again. Well its too late. She made her bed. You can't become part of a murderous organization and then expect to walk away unchallenged.


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    #906
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,156 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Removing citizenship from someone is something that should never be done. When you remove citizenship, you strip people of a load of rights that they have.

    One thing that always jumps to mind when i hear of something like this is the nazi's. No, I'm not godwinning, I'm not comparing the tories to the nazi's. It's just that the nazi's stripped the jews of their german citizenship. When they did that it enabled them to do stuff that they couldn't do legally to german citizens. It also meant that many couldn't flee because they had no citizenship, so no passport etc...

    If what she did was illegal, then open a case with the CPS and prosecute her when she returns. If she's deemed a security risk, then she should be monitored when she gets back.


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    #907
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,156 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    Its a pity ISIS followers like this woman don't share the same vision of human rights and fair play as the West does.

    She hated the West and Western values including human rights, democracy, freedoms, women's rights, and so on. She turned her back on all that when ISIS were flying high.

    Now suddenly she's changed her mind and wants to live in the West again. Well its too late. She made her bed. You can't become part of a murderous organization and then expect to walk away unchallenged.

    I didn't realise it was the law that you had to agree with the freedoms in the west to avail of those freedoms.

    Also, she was a teenage girl who was groomed by professional groomers.


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    #908
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Grayson wrote: »
    Removing citizenship from someone is something that should never be done. When you remove citizenship, you strip people of a load of rights that they have.

    One thing that always jumps to mind when i hear of something like this is the nazi's. No, I'm not godwinning, I'm not comparing the tories to the nazi's. It's just that the nazi's stripped the jews of their german citizenship. When they did that it enabled them to do stuff that they couldn't do legally to german citizens. It also meant that many couldn't flee because they had no citizenship, so no passport etc...

    If what she did was illegal, then open a case with the CPS and prosecute her when she returns. If she's deemed a security risk, then she should be monitored when she gets back.

    What about the rights of the victims of ISIS


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    #909
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,712 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Anyway once she turned 18 it’s largely irrelevant.

    Turning 18 doesn't absolve any crimes that where committed against you.


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    #910
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,156 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    malinheader wrote: »
    What about the rights of the victims of ISIS

    You think their citizenship should be removed too? That's rough.


    Seriously though, if she committed any crimes than as I said she should be tried for them. Weirdly the people who think she should be stripped of her citizenship are the ones that don't want to see her in a british court.


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    #911
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Grayson wrote: »
    Removing citizenship from someone is something that should never be done. When you remove citizenship, you strip people of a load of rights that they have.

    One thing that always jumps to mind when i hear of something like this is the nazi's. No, I'm not godwinning, I'm not comparing the tories to the nazi's. It's just that the nazi's stripped the jews of their german citizenship. When they did that it enabled them to do stuff that they couldn't do legally to german citizens. It also meant that many couldn't flee because they had no citizenship, so no passport etc...

    If what she did was illegal, then open a case with the CPS and prosecute her when she returns. If she's deemed a security risk, then she should be monitored when she gets back.

    Stripping her of citizenship is not undermining any rights she has in this case. She is not stateless as she has Bangladeshi citizenship. She is therefore entitled to the rights of a Bangladeshi citizen. They can expedite a Bangladeshi passport to her and she can go and dwell there with her child.

    The Tories are not acting as Nazis here. ISIS members are more like the Nazi's tbh. When did we ever accept the "We were just following orders." excuses that the Nazis gave back then that ISIS are giving now?


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    #912
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Boggles wrote: »
    Turning 18 doesn't absolve any crimes that where committed against you.

    Yep she's the victim in all this.


    Not a chance


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    #913
    inforfun
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    ToBeFrank123 wrote: »
    Its a pity ISIS followers like this woman don't share the same vision of human rights and fair play as the West does.

    She hates the West and Western values including human rights, democracy, freedoms, women's rights, and so on. She turned her back on all that when ISIS were flying high.

    Now suddenly she's changed her mind and wants to live in the West again. Well its too late. She made her bed. You can't become part of a murderous organization and then expect to walk away unchallenged.

    Fixed that a bit.

    Cause there is nothing i read from or about her that makes me think she changed her mind.


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    #914
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,266 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    Stripping her of citizenship is not undermining any rights she has in this case. She is not stateless as she has Bangladeshi citizenship. She is therefore entitled to the rights of a Bangladeshi citizen. They can expedite a Bangladeshi passport to her and she can go and dwell there with her child.

    The Tories are not acting as Nazis here. ISIS members are more like the Nazi's tbh. When did we ever accept the "We were just following orders." excuses that the Nazis gave back then that ISIS are giving now?


    how is stripping her of her citizenship not undermining any rights she has??? that is exactly what it is doing. it is undermining the right she has had since birth to be a british citizen and all that entails.


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    #915
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    Grayson wrote: »
    Removing citizenship from someone is something that should never be done. When you remove citizenship, you strip people of a load of rights that they have.

    One thing that always jumps to mind when i hear of something like this is the nazi's. No, I'm not godwinning, I'm not comparing the tories to the nazi's. It's just that the nazi's stripped the jews of their german citizenship. When they did that it enabled them to do stuff that they couldn't do legally to german citizens. It also meant that many couldn't flee because they had no citizenship, so no passport etc...

    If what she did was illegal, then open a case with the CPS and prosecute her when she returns. If she's deemed a security risk, then she should be monitored when she gets back.

    But she lost those rights for herself when she chose to go to Syria and participate in terrorist activities. You seem to think citizenship is a right. It isn't. She actively fought against 'her' own country. She won't be left stateless. She'll be able to get a Bangladeshi passport. Comparing this case to the Jews is actually disgusting. They were innocent victims of the Nazi regime, not criminals and murderers who travelled abroad to kill people.


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    #916
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Grayson wrote: »
    You think their citizenship should be removed too? That's rough.


    Seriously though, if she committed any crimes than as I said she should be tried for them. Weirdly the people who think she should be stripped of her citizenship are the ones that don't want to see her in a british court.

    Yep that's me. Probably 1 to 3 year sentence if any at all,then allowed back into society to do god knows what again. That ain't justice.


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    #917
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    inforfun wrote: »
    Fixed that a bit.

    Cause there is nothing i read from or about her that makes me think she changed her mind.

    That's the thing. She's not even a bit sorry. She has stated that she doesn't regret it. She has stated that she believes the Manchester attack was justified. She hates Britain and the West. She's a dangerous individual and a terrorist. Why should she be let back?


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    #918
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,266 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    But she lost those rights for herself when she chose to go to Syria and participate in terrorist activities. You seem to think citizenship is a right. It isn't. She actively fought against 'her' own country. She won't be left stateless. She'll be able to get a Bangladeshi passport. Comparing this case to the Jews is actually disgusting. They were innocent victims of the Nazi regime, not criminals and murderers who travelled abroad to kill people.


    British citizenship IS a right. that is exactly what it is. It is right bestowed on anybody born in the united kingdom. Now you may argue that the british goverment is correct to strip her of that citizenship but dont pretend that british citizenship is not something she has by right.


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    #919
    chrissb8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭chrissb8


    Grayson wrote: »
    I didn't realise it was the law that you had to agree with the freedoms in the west to avail of those freedoms.

    Also, she was a teenage girl who was groomed by professional groomers.

    Is there confusion at 15 years old that chopping heads off and bombing/killing innocent people is a bad thing? What grooming would convince a person that what IS are/were doing is a good thing.

    You can only give people so much leeway. She's a terrible human end of. If IS were to succeed and consolidate power in a region then she sure as hell would be in said region living the life she was living for 4 years still. You don't just get to turn around from something like that and say my bad everyone.


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    #920
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    Who cares about her rights she lost them as soon as she got involved with such a vile organisation as Isis what about the rights of all those brutally tortured and murdered by that same terrorist organisation she never cared about those did she so why should anyone care about her, she joined it of her own free will and now she must pay for her actions.


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    #921
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    She comes across on tv as a twisted individual. I would also bet that in private IS must think the UK are some morons for thinking this will even be considered. Hopefully she gets severely punished in Bangladesh.


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    #922
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    how is stripping her of her citizenship not undermining any rights she has??? that is exactly what it is doing. it is undermining the right she has had since birth to be a british citizen and all that entails.

    She gave up those rights when she became a perceived threat to national security.

    The state has a right under law to have her citizenship revoked if she is considered a threat to national security and IF she has citizenship of a second country.

    That is enshrined in their laws.

    They are doing nothing illegal here at all.


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    #923
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    Grayson wrote: »
    I didn't realise it was the law that you had to agree with the freedoms in the west to avail of those freedoms.

    Also, she was a teenage girl who was groomed by professional groomers.

    And now she is a woman with plenty of strong opinions. At this stage she should be able to tell right from wrong.
    Manchester bombing, beheadings, etc etc all fine in her book. Not a 15 year old speaking. A 19 year old woman. There's no sympathy for her in the west, she's not seen as a victim and she's unlikely to inspire so called grievance collectors. Instead her plight is a nice lesson to those who think they can slip in and out of terrorist organisations as if its a bit of tourism.


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    #924
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    She hasn't shown an ounce of remorse she truly is rotten to the core which is why she's best left where she is let the Syrians deal with her she's their problem now.


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    #925
    lainey_d_123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭lainey_d_123


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    British citizenship IS a right. that is exactly what it is. It is right bestowed on anybody born in the united kingdom. Now you may argue that the british goverment is correct to strip her of that citizenship but dont pretend that british citizenship is not something she has by right.

    It's a right to get it when you're born. It's not a right to keep it when you fight against your own country. Why do you think it should be unconditional and lifelong? If she hadn't gone to Syria and done what she did, she'd be able to keep it no bother. Her choice.


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    #926
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,599 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm loathe to support the brits in anything, and they will arguably have made a balls of their economy in a few weeks.
    But fair f*cks to them and their leaders for having the balls to do what they did.

    If she was irish she'd probably be let back in here and have a bunch of extreme leftists supporting her.


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    #927
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    To be honest , mentally, a 19 year old and a 15 year old are not too far removed. A normal 15 year old would not see a war on tv and think it was a good idea to go join up with the Caliphate. Her parents need to be heavily investigated.


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    #928
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,061 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    It's very worrying amount of people backing her claim to any right to British citizenship, when she got dual Citizenship.

    Using her Child as excuse, but forgetting all the children and babies murdered by ISIS full stop, that she openly supports

    Did the British tell her to join and tricked her or something?

    It's not something I worry about. She made her own bed and was still not sorry it


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    #929
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,266 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    She gave up those rights when she became a perceived threat to national security.

    The state has a right under law to have her citizenship revoked if she is considered a threat to national security and IF she has citizenship of a second country.

    That is enshrined in their laws.

    They are doing nothing illegal here at all.
    lainey_d_123 wrote: »
    It's a right to get it when you're born. It's not a right to keep it when you fight against your own country. Why do you think it should be unconditional and lifelong? If she hadn't gone to Syria and done what she did, she'd be able to keep it no bother. Her choice.


    You both really need to read the posts you are quoting.


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    #930
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,266 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    This thread really has gone full gammon. It's like reading the comments on Daily Mail articles.


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    #931
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    This thread really has gone full gammon. It's like reading the comments on Daily Mail articles.

    Why?

    Because people back the UK state to exercise the rights it has under its own laws?


This discussion has been closed.
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