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ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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    #872
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    tretorn wrote: »
    She isn’t pregnant any more, she gave birth to a boy and you can imagine what he will be like at fifteen.

    Off to Bangladesh with both of them.
    Ah, so she did. In that case, if possible if I were Theresa May or whomever makes the call I would do all I can to keep her out of the country and revoke her citizenship (according to the Google headlines just now that seems to be what they are looking at), but give her the option to give up the baby which is all of two days old, if she does want it to grow up with the comforts she did (that she now wants to destroy). If she rejects this, then neither of them return to the UK.

    If I am correct, the child is a UK citizen by default, and extremism is not a genetic disposition.

    EDIT: Actually, the child's citizenship may be a bit murkier, depending on the mother's origin (if she herself is a citizen by birth, or by descent) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law#British_citizenship_by_descent


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    #873
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    46 posts in this thread and you don't even know what ISIS stands for. Why am I not surprised.


    oh i'm well aware of what isis stands for. however isis are not a state. they are not a country. they are a cult and a terrorist group. they cannot have citizens, they can have nothing.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #874
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    end of the road wrote: »
    oh i'm well aware of what isis stands for. however isis are not a state. they are not a country. they are a cult and a terrorist group. they cannot have citizens, they can have nothing.

    You do realise that ISIS is made up of people though and not a mythical creature, right?


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    #875
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    She had the baby a couple of days ago in Syria. So the infant is a Syrian citizen.
    Seemingly not, only if the father holds Syrian citizenship.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_nationality_law
    Billy86 wrote:

    If I am correct, the child is a UK citizen by default, and extremism is not a genetic disposition.

    EDIT: Actually, the child's citizenship may be a bit murkier, depending on the mother's origin (if she herself is a citizen by birth, or by descent) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law#British_citizenship_by_descent
    The child would probably be entitled to Dutch citizenship through the father. He could possibly be sent to his grandparents there also.
    https://ind.nl/en/dutch-citizenship/Pages/by-birth-or-acknowledgement.aspx


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    #876
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,348 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    tretorn wrote: »
    She isn’t pregnant any more, she gave birth to a boy and you can imagine what he will be like at fifteen.

    Off to Bangladesh with both of them.

    You would think with her Islamic views she'd be much happier in Bangladesh than living in East London which she doesn't appear to have much affinity for.

    The more this story unfolds whatever sympathy I had for her situation is all but gone.

    She has used her gender, her child, her age, and most worryingly her religion (as if she has no choice in the matter) as reasons to gain sympathy for her situation.

    She's a liar, she's calculating, she's dangerous (despite her protestations she isn't capable of doing anything harmful to UK citizen as if capability is the point, not intention), and she's completely absorbed in the worst kind of religion absolutism. Could you describe more of a write-off than that. She is not much different from a Nazi fanatic behind all her placid looking exterior.


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    #877
    old_aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Begum’s dual nationality — as both her parents are of Bangladeshi — reportedly cleared the way for today’s decision.

    FCUK off terrorist bitch, to Bangladesh and take your family with you.
    Go where you and your family will be right at home.


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    #878
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,888 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Her only regret seems to be they didn't win, with an attitude like that what did she expect, a welcome home party? She ruined her life to get the ride basically.


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    #879
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,036 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    You do realise that ISIS is made up of people though and not a mythical creature, right?


    yes. it is still not a state however.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #880
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Cushie Butterfield wrote: »
    Seemingly not, only if the father holds Syrian citizenship.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_nationality_law

    The child would probably be entitled to Dutch citizenship through the father. He could possibly be sent to his grandparents there also.
    https://ind.nl/en/dutch-citizenship/Pages/by-birth-or-acknowledgement.aspx

    That should also do. Like a child with drug addicts for parents, this kid shouldn't be made to suffer for things that happened before they were even born. Grandparents possibly, though at this point there's a strong chance it is a childhood in social services which is far from great to be mild about it, but it is far better having that in the UK or Netherlands, than the equivalent in Bangladesh.

    What a horrible situation to be born into though, either way.


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    #881
    malinheader
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    end of the road wrote: »
    yes. it is still not a state however.

    Are you glad she's probably not able to get back into the UK. Do you think it should be used more often if possible.


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    #882
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Interesting decision, be even more interesting to see what Trump does with his Isis members.

    He said all nations should take them back but allot of his own supporters would spit fire.


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    #883
    backspin.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    She will end up winning her battle to stay in Britain such is the state of western society these days. She will then get a house and welfare and maybe even a book deal.


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    #884
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Interesting decision, be even more interesting to see what Trump does with his Isis members.

    He said all nations should take them back but allot of his own supporters would spit fire.
    Trump supporters do what Trump supporters are told to do. Take them back, they'll cheer it as correct so long as The Leader said it. Don't take them back, they'll cheer it as correct so long as The Leader said it. And when he inevitably flip-flops between the two choices a half dozen times, they'll scamper like rats to claim they support whatever his stance on it is this hour.

    There's about as much point paying attention to them for reaction, as there are for any cult... you'll just wind up let down and slightly confused, as they blindly continue to follow.


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    #885
    metaoblivia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭metaoblivia


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Interesting decision, be even more interesting to see what Trump does with his Isis members.

    He said all nations should take them back but allot of his own supporters would spit fire.

    He has an opportunity right now as a woman who ran away from Alabama when she was 19 is now asking to return to the US with her son.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/17/us-woman-hoda-muthana-deeply-regrets-joining-isis-and-wants-return-home

    Muthana said she had not been in contact with US officials since her capture. “I would tell them please forgive me for being so ignorant, and I was really young and ignorant and I was 19 when I decided to leave. I believe that America gives second chances. I want to return and I’ll never come back to the Middle East. America can take my passport and I wouldn’t mind.”


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    #886
    backspin.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Trump supporters do what Trump supporters are told to do. Take them back, they'll cheer it as correct so long as The Leader said it. Don't take them back, they'll cheer it as correct so long as The Leader said it.

    I'm not sure even you believe that.


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    #887
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    metaoblivia wrote: »
    He has an opportunity right now as a woman who ran away from Alabama when she was 19 is now asking to return to the US with her son.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/17/us-woman-hoda-muthana-deeply-regrets-joining-isis-and-wants-return-home

    Muthana said she had not been in contact with US officials since her capture. “I would tell them please forgive me for being so ignorant, and I was really young and ignorant and I was 19 when I decided to leave. I believe that America gives second chances. I want to return and I’ll never come back to the Middle East. America can take my passport and I wouldn’t mind.”

    Thats what i meant by it, the twitter comments from Americans to this were much like the British.

    However only last week he was telling the UK ect to take them back.


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    #888
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    She had the baby a couple of days ago in Syria. So the infant is a Syrian citizen.

    She has her anchor baby


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    #889
    Titzon Toast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,503 ✭✭✭Titzon Toast


    I just hope the British government stick to their guns and deny her appeal, a lesson anyone else foolish enough to try that stunt.


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    #890
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Boggles wrote: »
    I'd have no problem with it, but the last time I stuck a teenage girl in the spare bedroom the Missus freaked.

    The missus would blow you out and the lodger would blow you up.


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    #891
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,353 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    She had the baby a couple of days ago in Syria. So the infant is a Syrian citizen.


    Syrian nationality is based on Jus Sanguinis i.e. right of blood. being born in syria does not make you a citizen. The child is entitled to both british and bangladeshi citizenship and possibly dutch.


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    #892
    backspin.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    There was an interesting comments on twitter this morning. This ISIS woman is getting fairer coverage from the MSN than the MAGA hat wearing Covington Catholic school boy.


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    #893
    inforfun
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Syrian nationality is based on Jus Sanguinis i.e. right of blood. being born in syria does not make you a citizen. The child is entitled to both british and bangladeshi citizenship and possibly dutch.

    Apparently it was a Dutch convert.
    Too bad he isnt\wasnt a Dutch Moroccan otherwise you could have added Moroccan to the bingo card of nationalities.


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    #894
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,353 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    inforfun wrote: »
    Apparently it was a Dutch convert.
    Too bad he isnt\wasnt a Dutch Moroccan otherwise you could have added Moroccan to the bingo card of nationalities.


    Yeah the husband was dutch apparently but they would have to prove that before the kid could get dutch citizenship. As he has disappeared that may be difficult.


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    #895
    inforfun
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    backspin. wrote: »
    There was an interesting comments on twitter this morning. This ISIS woman is getting fairer coverage from the MSN than the MAGA hat wearing Covington Catholic school boy.

    And i doubt his coverage will be getting better since he filed a claim against the Washington Post for $250 million :D


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    #896
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Syrian nationality is based on Jus Sanguinis i.e. right of blood. being born in syria does not make you a citizen. The child is entitled to both british and bangladeshi citizenship and possibly dutch.

    Cushie pulled up the info a few posts back. As her British citizenship is currently revoked and the infant wasn’t born there either, the only nationalities left at present are Dutch and Bangladeshi.

    EU passport may be in the post. Is the husband dead or imprisoned?


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    #897
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    This is off topic but surely Irish guards can stop a Uk national entry if they have good reason to and vice versa with Irish going into the Uk

    That would involve paperwork. And no Garda wants that hassle. Case in point: The guy who stabbed the Japanese guy to death a few months ago. Stopped by Gardai a few days earlier with no passport, no papers, said he was claiming asylum so the Gardai sent him on his merry way.


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    #898
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,353 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Cushie pulled up the info a few posts back. As her British citizenship is currently revoked and the infant wasn’t born there either, the only nationalities left at present are Dutch and Bangladeshi.

    EU passport may be in the post. Is the husband dead or imprisoned?


    Not for the kid. the kid was born while she was a british citizen. that makes the kid automatically a british citizen. Removing citizenship from the mother post birth does not change that.


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    #899
    Thinkingaboutit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    inforfun wrote: »
    And i doubt his coverage will be getting better since he filed a claim against the Washington Post for $250 million :D

    Absolutely right. Teenage boys threatened online because of a rush to judgement by mass sufferers of Trump Derangement Syndrome. The bishop should have been sued. Immediate rush to judgement by him, and a really belated apology.

    The Syrian Arab Republic could keep that unapologetic supporter of DAESH, even if they would hardly want her. Nor would Bangladesh want another jihadist. Nor the Dutch. Maybe Canada will give her asylum. Justin Trudeau is welcoming to jihadists.


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    #900
    inforfun
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Cushie pulled up the info a few posts back. As her British citizenship is currently revoked and the infant wasn’t born there either, the only nationalities left at present are Dutch and Bangladeshi.

    EU passport may be in the post. Is the husband dead or imprisoned?

    Of the 300+ jihadis that left Holland for Syria, 55 have returned, 85 have been killed over there and for 175 other that last option could still happen. They are still there.

    I guess he has to be filed under that 175


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    #901
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,938 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    They have just turned her from universal villain to some what now of a victim denied her due process.

    Echoed by Conservative MP George Freeman so it's not just "the left".
    I’m afraid that for various reasons I think today’s decision to strip Miss #Begum of her UK citizenship is a mistake & a dangerous precedent. She was born here, educated here & is our responsibility. We should defend our system & she should be brought back to face the UK courts.


    AllForIt wrote: »
    What I also find disturbing is the inference that somehow the UK state is being racist towards her in their decision to revoke her citizenship.

    I don't know if it is racist, I think that term gets thrown around too much.

    But there definitely is proof that a 2 tier system exists and extreme proof TBF.

    Take Asma al-Assad, wife and PR mouth piece for one of the greatest mass murderers of our generation, Asma still enjoys her British citizenship, but then again she had tea with the Queen.

    FUN FACT: Both Asma and Sajid Javid worked for Deutsche Bank.


This discussion has been closed.
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